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Souls Of The Dead In Christ

I am serious to know where the souls of the dead in Christ Jesus would be? Would they be alive in spirits with Jesus. The verses in Hebrew 12, Appearance of Moses and Elijah at Jesus transfiguration and the parable of Lazarus appear to support these souls are alive with Jesus in heaven.

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 ---Pek on 4/16/05
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The context of the scripture is a consolation for the saints that their dead loved ones will be raised from the dead. The resurrection of the just and the unjust. But here is the twist, if you are in Christ you are alive for evermore. your death was your baptism into Christ and your Resurrection into newness of life is Christ in you. Your eternal life is secure and firmly set in Christ through the Spirit of Christ that lives within you. This Spirit is life itself. Check the scripture to see if the born of the Spirit believer enters death after receiving the new life. He does not, unless he falls from faith in Christ and enters the second death which is eternal damnation because there is no other sacrifice for sin.
---bill on 7/25/09

1st Cliff, the event may have been a labelled a "vision" by Christ but in it Jesus was speaking to Moses and Elias, and Peter, James and John thought these visitors were real enough to want to build tents for them. So unless Jesus was really trying to confuse His apostles, I am thinking that His point was that they were alive in Christ, just as His friend "Lazarus" was really raised from the dead by Jesus, to show that He could really do that.
---lorra8574 on 9/16/07

1st Cliff, visions in religion are not the same as drug induced visions, they can be very real and show what actually occurs, whether in Heaven or in the future, or when or where-ever. They can also be in code, but that particular vision, does not appear to be the case. Jesus was showing them something very special.

As for the rich man story, I have often considered it to be a parable, but even so why fabricate a scenario that might present incorrect doctrinal conclusions?
---lorra8574 on 9/16/07

Thanks Joey for your May 2006 response!Indeed, Jesus spoke of Abraham in this real story, not a parable that he gave!Perhaps he was responding for the "doubting Thomases" that would follow!Both Lazarus and the rich man were buried, but their recognizable spirits were and are very much alive!
---Theresa on 9/16/07

Pek; The transfiguration is in Matthew,17,verse 9 calls it a "vision"(not reality) The rich man and Laserus is a "parable" in neither case were these people(souls) actually alive!
---1st_cliff on 5/23/07

I don't think lazarus and the rich man is a parable. Jesus uses a real character (ABRAHAM) when narrating this story.
---joey on 10/2/06

Once I thought I could understand the differences of Body,Soul and Spirit. After reading Ecc 3:19-22, animal's soul and our soul go to the same place upon death. I follow the explanation that body is the shell human is wearing, the soul is the mind and the spirit is the breath of God. What do you think?
---pek on 5/17/05

Robin, legs were not broken to prevent excape but to cause death. This was done according to law.

Crucifixion caused death by suffocation. The condemned was hung with nails/spikes through the part of the hand that we recognize as the wrist. The feet were nailed to a wooden block that would hold their weight when they pressed their feet on it.

The condemned would push up with their feet to aid in correct breathing. This caused extreme pain.

With the legs broke they couldn't raise up and this caused death quicker.

Jesus' legs were not broke because He had died.
---Elder on 4/26/05

Eloy, Jesus committed his spirit to God from whom it came. This is not a conscious entity but simply the life giving breath of God. It takes the breath of God and a body to become a living soul. Genensis 2:7 If Jesus went to heaven that day why did He tell Mary 2 days later that He had not yet ascended unto the Father? Also, even if He had gone to heaven when He died on Friday, the thief had not died yet so how could he have gone to heaven that day? This common belief doesn't hold water when it is studied out thoroughly.
---Robin on 4/22/05

What a pity that you thik we need to struggle to be saved! Have you forgotten that salvation is a FREE GIFT=SAVED BY GRACE! Surely if someone you love very much gave you a precious gift WOULD YOU REALLY STRUGGLE to express your gratitude for the gift? I certainly hope not! One way to do this is to spread the good news: WE DO NOT NEED TO STRUGGLE BECAUSE HE HAS ALREADY THE VICTORY!!
---Pierre on 4/19/05

Robin, you corrupt the Scriptures when you say Jesus did not go to paradise the day he died, when that is exactly what he said. His dying breath was, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" and he gave up the ghost. Where do you think his spirit went? Or do you suppose placing a punctuation mark somewhere, perhaps he didn't say that exactly either?
---Eloy on 4/19/05

Pek: The original Biblical transcripts did not contain punctuation. Look what happens when the comma is placed after the word today instead of before: "Assuredly, I say to you today, You will be with Me in Paradise." Interestingly the thief did not even die that day. The soldiers broke the legs of the thieves to prevent their escape over the Sabbath day. (John 20:31,32) Also Jesus Himself did not go to paradise that day as evidenced by His remark to Mary after His resurrection not to cling to Him because He had not yet ascended to His Father. John 20:17
---Robin on 4/19/05

What about the souls resting in the paradise.Remember Jesus gave this assurance to one thief crucified with him when he made that request. He shall be with Christ in Paradise. I just like to believe the souls of the dead are watching or witnessing our struggle on our way to Paradise. What an encouragement for us who are still alive.
---Pek on 4/18/05

We mustn't base our beliefs on an isolated Bible text but need to study all references to a subject to get the whole picture. Here is a list of texts on the subject of the state of the dead: John 11:11-14; 1 Thes 4:15,16; John 5:28,29; Gen 27; Ecc 12:7; Job 27:3; Psa 115:17; Acts 2:34; Psa 6:5; Ecc 9:5; Job 19:25-26; Ezek 18:4; Rom 6:23; 2 Tim 4:7,8; Rev 22:12; Heb 11:39,40
---Robin on 4/17/05

Jude 14 seems to indicate that there are many saints in heaven. "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints," This does not necessarily contradict the teaching that the dead sleep in the grave since Matthew 27:52,53 tells us that when Jesus died the earth quaked and many graves were opened and many bodies of the saints were raised. The Bible does not tell us what became of these raised saints but it is reasonable to conclude that they were brought to heaven when Jesus ascended.
---Robin on 4/17/05

To Daniel: I gather you did not like my answer. I am not at all offended.I would suggest however that Paul was not implying that he would be with the Lord at his death. In 2TIM 4:6 he talks about THAT DAY. I believe this is a ref. to the 2nd coming of Christ. If the saints went to heaven at death why woukd he call them out of their graves? Why would he bother to come if they were already with Him?
---Pierre on 4/17/05

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Please don't be offended, but seems like some weird answers for a simple question! A first reading of 1Th 4:13ff. appears to state that Believers who die are 'asleep' until the Rapture, but Php 1:23 (and others) show that we will be conscious and with the LORD immediately after death. There is no purgatory, nor is it necessary for Christians to remain in Hades since the Resurrection! We will not have a glorified body until later though.
---Daniel on 4/17/05

Let me suggest that you wonder where something is that does not exist "the soul(s) of the dead" This expression is a contradicion and here is why: THE SOUL only exists when it is the result of the following combination: DUST + BREATH OF LIFE.In other words THE SOUL never is an indpendent entity which can exist on its own.
---Pierre on 4/17/05

They are on earth. The soul is not the mind, and the soul is not the spirit, they are separate. Each person is made up of a body which is the building or flesh; a spirit which is the breath or aspiration; and a soul which is the life or anima. The soul can be living or dead. When one dies the spirit leaves the body and soul, and goes back to God. The body and soul remain behind on earth, until that time that the Lord will call for the dead to rise. (Mark 12:30; Acts 17:25; I Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12).
---Eloy on 4/16/05

Apparently, that is an unanswered mystery. The soul is the breath of God and the body, i.e. 'livng soul.' The breath returns to the one who gave it. The body goes to the grave, which includes all the tissues, bones, sinews, etc. In Hebrew 12, spirit is 'pneuma,' breath. This thought carries into Ezekial, i.e. Elijah caught up in a whirlwind ascending to heaven.` Elijah did not die; Moses died but he gave the law.
---gregg on 4/16/05

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