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Three Secrets of Mary At Fatima

Exactly what were the 3 'secrets' that Mary allegedly gave to the 3 children in Fatima? I read that whomever was Pope in 1960 was to open the envelope. John 23rd opened, then resealed the letter, was it ever reopened?

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** I being a PK and haveing many PK friends have found that it is the hypocresey of the church's that cause the greatest problem.**

That's one of the nicest things about the Church--no matter how many hypocrites are in it, there's always room for one more.
---Jack on 3/6/08


Strongaxe - while some PK's do that, I being a PK and haveing many PK friends have found that it is the hypocresey of the church's that cause the greatest problem.

The church is supposed to be following God, right? What PK's see is the politics, the scum, and underbelly of church. That is what most pastor's have to deal with. No wonder we become disallusioned. Kinda like some the blogs here, except here we can chose not to get involved.
---dan on 3/6/08


Why children rebel?. They do it because they can and can
get away with it. Would had been a different thing, life in
the days of Deuteronomy 21:18_21.
Children know what they dare and who they dare. Only
once do a child dare the electric wall outlet or the hot stove.
After that, holy remedy, no more dare!
---Nana on 3/6/08


POINT TO PONDER
If Force produces rebellion which is a denial of obedience.Is it a good thing? then why did God throw Satan and His fallen angels OUT OF HEAVEN??
To those who say parental guidance is wrong.
---Emcee on 3/5/08


Emcee:

When parents drag children to Church "whether they like it or not", and the Children spend the entire service squirming uncomfortably and seething in anger (and/or boredom), they aren't paying attention to the message. They only thing they learn is resentment and rebellion.

(I'm speaking here of children who have reached the age of reason, and can think for themselves - not young children for which parents must make all decisions).
---StrongAxe on 3/5/08




Christians and the World have always been at war, and any good general knows that the best defense is to be scattered, not holed up in one place waiting for the enemy to lay seige to you, or infiltrate your ranks.
---frances008 on 3/5/08


A Church that alls goes under one flag, may have the flag bearer shot, replaced, or subverted. It is better that we are in unity spiritually, but physically in different denomations/no denomination and in different forms and places. Like water, going where there is a space, filling the needs of the poor. Etc. To belong to any one denomination is a recipe for the end of Christianity.
---frances008 on 3/5/08


A good soldier has the same mind as the General (Jesus Christ) and does not need to be ordered around by men who may have been subverted, or may be spies for the enemy. A good soldier knows good orders from bad ones, if he does not his own side will put him in jail (like the American soldiers who tortured Muslims.) Better to know the truth and feel free to act in accord with the General's wishes.
---frances008 on 3/5/08


MY strike hit home.THE word is Guidance NOT Force which is the interpretation from REBELLION.Guidance to understand follow God and accept the fruits of His reward is what is the DUTY of a GOOD parent.Is that being self righteous. do babies come with clothes? yet we dress them to Protect them,is the soul not important to protect or self indulgence the norm of the child greater.Why did God give you the gift of a child?To bring him up to love and serve the lord.
---Emcee on 3/5/08


**Define love - search your soul? Repayment?** - what a pious self righteous attitude to have toward a child ..If parents LOVED their children they wouldn't FORCE their religious beliefs on their older children ...guidance by parents is expected - forcing older children to religion?? ...worshiping God is very personal (worshiping from your own free will is love toward God) ...mankind has free moral agency to obey or not obey ...God does not want people worshiping HIM because mankind FORCES it upon them
---Rhonda on 3/5/08




Emcee:

Forcing children past the age of reason to attend services that the don't believe in doesn't encourage belief - it encourages resentment and rebellion.

If your parents were Hindus, and forced you to attend Hindu services, and you believed hinduism was wrong, how would you feel?

Many "precher's kids" rebel - NOT because they hate God, but becuase their parents forced them into religion, so they were never able to make decisions for themselves.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/08


Strong axe:Did God the Father Force His son to come and shed His blood for Humanity? NO He did it out of obedience and love.You say you were forced to go to church! what did you learn OBEDIENCE or REBELLION ?did you love the parents who gave you life limb and liberty is that your repayment.DEFINE LOVE search your heart.They knew the value of your soul even before you were born.You apparently did not consider the 4th Commandment"Honour your mother and Father"I thank God for such Parents.
---Emcee on 3/4/08


No, Jack. Those are a couple of crumbs I am throwing out to you. I thought they were rather interesting since one was claiming to be Catholic and the other claimed to be ex-Satanist and both are saying the same things. Kind of makes you think, doesn't it. As I said, I use all sources available to me, including Rupert Murdoch's Fox, CIA's CNN, and CIA's BBC.
---frances008 on 3/4/08


As long as you, Emcee, keep trotting out that tired old perversion of Matthew's gospel, I will keep telling you that the translation is a deliberate twisting of the truth. Petros is Peter, the man, and Petra is the Revelation that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The subject of the conversation is Jesus, not Peter.
---frances008 on 3/4/08


Holly:: Maybe we are both argueing about the same thing but from different angles.Your disagreement is with the RCC, or anything pertaining to or in association with.so I shall leave youto paddle your own canoe whether you go up or down stream you alone will find out as I also will. Go in Peace.1JN5:16-21
---Emcee on 3/4/08


Strongaxe/frances008::You are emboldened but only the truth will set you free.The spirit within you is not free but destined.the word of God is in Matt16:17-19 remember that.he who denies that denies HIS word.I know God does not lie satan does
---Emcee on 3/4/08


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StrongAxe, I know what you mean.
---frances008 on 3/4/08


** I thank God for the Catholic education I had that made me into a very determined pursuer of the true facts being what we are spoon fed.**

So now you look to such reliable sources as Veronica Leukens and John Todd for the truth.
---Jack on 3/4/08


Assured salvation is not yours to assume IMHO that is why I do not agree with OSAS. But you may continue in your belief. ---Emcee on 3/3/08

My Bible says that you can know that you have salvation/eternal life:

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Salvation is assured if you continue to abide in Him and Him in you.
---Holly4jc on 3/4/08


frances008:

I too was raised Catholic (Forced to go to Church with my parents until 18, but stopped believing at 10 as there were questions our local priest could not, or would not answer).

Still, I find it easier to make friends of Catholics, ex-Catholics, and Jews (believing or not) because they often have a strong cradle-tought sense of personal responsibility and accountability, while many evangelicals have a dismissive "God forgives me, so I don't have to care" mentality.
---StrongAxe on 3/4/08


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Emcee, what God has set free you would bind under your lawlessness. I am freed now to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth, not under any man-made doctrines.
---frances008 on 3/4/08


frances008:You are a Lady friend. Apostacising is a choice-DIVORCE. Some have known to fall,sorrowfully.Some people appear to be terse,like me. I do respect any lady because it is born out of HIS love causing hurt. If I have,Sorry its only to put you back on the rails to roll in the right direction.My love for Jesus and His Holy Mother is intense and it shows. There is a HYMN"Come back to me, with all your heart, why did you, stay apart."Dont Divorce your God.His love is everlasting
---Emcee on 3/4/08


Do people who leave the RCC all get treated like defectors from a Communist regime? It was not my fault that I was born Catholic. And I must say some home churched people were very uncharitable to me when I was a Catholic, putting any chance of leaving the church back by 20 years. People ought to watch their mouths (present company excepted.)
---frances008 on 3/3/08


I thank God for the Catholic education I had that made me into a very determined pursuer of the true facts being what we are spoon fed.
---frances008 on 3/3/08


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Holly::I have never said that works are necessary for salvation.I said Faith without good works is dead.You have assumed this perfidity.As RCC having Faith we do His works as he DID But our hope is what we seek in Christ who is merciful. Assured salvation is not yours to assume IMHO that is why I do not agree with OSAS.But you may continue in your belief.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


Holly: SALVATION is in the next world.WORKS are in this world.ASK JESUS He did his works here.But you may console your self by your words not Gods words.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


I think you will find it hard getting into Heaven on the basis of somebody else's doctrines, orders, books, or faith. It has to be circumcision of your heart. Your faith, and Your obedience. Not belief in apparitions of Satan.
---frances008 on 3/3/08


Emcee...good works come as a RESULT of salvation, not to OBTAIN salvation. Jesus did not need salvation...He was here to show the goodness of God via His good works. Prior to salvation, our good works (righteousness) are as filthy rags to God. After salvation, our good works are unto the Lord and pleasing to Him, not to obtain salvation, because we already have it, but to be obedient to the Lord, for we were created to do good works, His good works.
---Holly4jc on 3/3/08


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'f'rances:: " I Discovered MY Faith"Jesus said "FOLLOW ME"not frances008, need I say more."Be Perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.He also said "MY CHURCH" not your doctrine or an implied church.Matt16:17-19.But dear lady its YOUR choice.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


'f'rances::Words like maybe could be are used when you are in doubtI believe these answersin this forum are based on FACTS not supposition or innuendo.
---Emcee on 3/3/08


There wasnt anymore public revelation after the death of the apostle John but there still is private revelation such as Fatima, but the Church is cautious when aproving this type of revelation due to human error or possibility of misinterpretation. Fatima was approved by the Church because the message of prayer and penance did not contradict scripture but the faithful are not required to believe in private rev. Our Blessed Mother is warning her children to repent and not to offend God anymore.
---janet on 3/3/08


We should be aware by now that some sources of information are not reliable and that certain people tend to draw their own erroneous assumptions based on their personal biases relying on these dubious sources. Many times these people will not state what their sources are which is often the case with statemnents made against the Catholic Church.
---janet on 3/3/08


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I won't argue the Peter angel, though it seems James was the head of the church in Jeruselem. Annoiting is a gift of God. We have all been given gifts, just as OT priests were. There is no heiarchy, but rather and equal unity. The only head is Christ, High Priest, both Levitical and Melchezedkian. We all serve as His priests, according to our gifts.
---dan on 3/3/08


After Jesus died and rose again, that was it. He was the final warning. There are not more revelations of God ... no more warnings. You either reject Him and His Father and the Law, or you accept and obey. Jesus came not to do away with the Law but to prove the Law was correct and right. Now he demands much MORE.
---frances008 on 3/2/08


Holly:Then the word in James2,14-20, PUTS YOU AT A DISADVANTAGE THIS ALSO IS GODS WORD.Would you consider to be the truth or would you deny That that is what Jesus did on this earth while administering His Gospel teaching and preachingand curing the sick (works).WAS JESUS WRONG?
---Emcee on 3/2/08


Frances::Your assumption and quotation, people who were "dead could not come back" and the apparation of the Mother of Jesus was a of devils origion. Nana pointed out the 2 Humans who were with Jesus at the Transfiguration, were not devils but acknowledged and identified as Moses and Elijah as proof of the inaccuracy of your statement.I have to agree with Nana as your statement is biased .Because it is true she also has been recognised By thousands that she is the Virgin His MOTHER.
---Emcee on 3/2/08


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Padre Pio, who was a Catholic monk, was asked what he thought was in the Third Secret. I liked his answer 'Beware of all bishops.' In other words, he would not answer the question, maybe because he regarded the whole of Fatima as something evil as well as the corruption in high places in the RCC.
---frances008 on 3/1/08


I have forgotten my faith? Emcee, I was presented with the faith of my fathers and mothers going back generations. I did not choose that faith. I now find it is anti-biblical. They did not have the signs needed to discern that fact. So I left THEIR faith and discovered MY faith.
---frances008 on 3/1/08


Holly ::Then please, read first James1:19-22.Then James2:14-20 dear lady.remember Jesus when on this earth went around not only TALKING but doing, which is WORKS.You are still free to make a choice.His words Resound in my ears "FOLLOW ME"
---Emcee on 3/1/08


Nana, you were the one to bring in something different. The Bible tells us clearly that the men appearing with Jesus were not devils. The Bible also warns us time and again (impossible almost to count) that we will be punished for worshipping idols. The Queen of Heaven is an idol (Jeremiah 7) and we will be punished if we continue to worship her.
---frances008 on 2/29/08


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Emcee...I do CHOOSE TO BELIEVE God's written Word without any add-ons and I stand on HIS Word...we are saved by grace, through faith...not of WORKs!
---Holly4jc on 2/29/08


Holly:: Choice & belief are 2 integral parts of Human existence.Arguementation is an option of discreation.Time reveals the truth as God says "MY word shall stand"Comprehension gives rise to many thoughts of decisionand derision.I leave you with Kind thoughts of His love which we share with HOPE and His command.
---Emcee on 2/29/08


Dan: No I try hopefully Not to make mistakes .Peter was speaking as head of his newly appointed office as stated matt16:17-19. I do not challenge His word but the different interpretation.If you are of His church then I am confused & wrong.I still believe the term annointed calls for officialdom and confirmation to that office.a part of the body does not make you the head.now does it?
---Emcee on 2/29/08


OOPs Frances::You are in hot water Nana is astute.You have forgotten your Faith and are being led by the nose may be you should go back to socialising in the old way & gen up, insead of listening to old repeated false rhetoric.Mary is here from Genesis & here to stay, Till the prophecy is fulfilled "She shall crush thy Head".G3:15 D/R version.Just a kind thought.
---Emcee on 2/29/08


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The first secret was the prediction of WWII.
The second secret was the vision of hell.
The third secret was interpreted as the attempted suicide of Pope John Paul II.
---janet on 2/29/08


Emcee - perhaps you have me confused with some one else. I quoted from 1 Peter, not Ephesians. But as God's chosen people, a sacrificial saved people we share in the inheritence of Christ our High Priest, in essence (re)born into the family as a priest.
---dan on 2/29/08


frances,1
You said, "Mary was a human being, she does not make reappearances,
competing with Jesus. No, any appearances of 'Mary' are of the devil
himself." It was on account of that statement that I said and quoted:
"Hey frances, were these two devils?
Mark 9:4: "And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses:
and they were talking with Jesus."
---Nana on 2/28/08"
---Nana on 2/28/08


frances,2
I am not changing the subject, rather pointing out to you that Scripture
declared that Elias and Moses,two men "human beings" who lived in
times past, appeared to Peter, James and John, "and they were talking
with Jesus."
---Nana on 2/28/08


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frances,3
"This is a well known method of trying to win an argument that is lost."
What argument are you sustaining? None, only personal bias and
opinion. I ask you once again, were they devils?
---Nana on 2/28/08


OUR righteousness (aka good works) are as filthy rags to the Lord:

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags, We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.
---Holly4jc on 2/28/08


OK Emcee..here is the rest of Ephesians (2:10)
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

As I stated before...we are not saved by our works, the good works come AFTER we are saved, as a result of our salvation. God created and destined those works to be done by us, but we must get saved first to fulfill them, then AFTERWARDS, we walk in them. Our good works DO NOT save us. The Bible clearly states that.
---Holly4jc on 2/28/08


DAN::Please read2James 3:1-5 Maybe we should act like men instead of Priests.as we are not ordained.also 2James3:13-18:
Holly: You cited Ephesians2:8-9 but left out 10which makes your own statement NULL and VOID.I thought I should point that out just in case you missed it.
---Emcee on 2/28/08


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Fatima, Medjugore, Lourdes, Akita, are all events in the Catholic Church and they are from the devil. They also are the names of the places where those events took place. I have visited three of them and I am telling you that they are of the devil. Yes, supernatural. From God? Definitely NOT.
---frances on 2/28/08


Holly:It is true that in some places is said By faith we are saved.But as it also says by Paul in 2James2:14-26, works is also needed. If you want to be right you may do so by your choice.I offer no resistance or arguement.
---Emcee on 2/28/08


Holly:It is true that in some places is said By faith we are saved.But as it also says by Paul in 2James2:14-26, works is also needed. If you want to be right you may do so by your choice.I offer no resistance or arguement.
---Emcee on 2/28/08


Nana, I think we are discussing the miraculous apparitions of Mary, the mother of Jesus in the last 100 years. But if you want to open the thread up to a discussion of the Bible apparitions, feel free. Just realize you are changing the topic. This is a well known method of trying to win an argument that is lost. However, you could read about the idol worshippers of the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah Chapter 7.
---frances on 2/28/08


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Emcee stated...salvation by Faith alone, which I thought was incorrect as there are other things involved-not faith alone-

Yes Emcee...salvation IS by faith alone, just as the bible says:

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH, and that not of yourselves, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.
---Holly4jc on 2/28/08


Emcee - from your earlier post, we are not priests. 1 Peter 2:9 not only are we (those who chosen to serve God) priests, but a royal priest hood, a holy nation, belonging to God.
---dan on 2/28/08


Hey frances, were these two devils?
Mark 9:4: "And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses:
and they were talking with Jesus."
---Nana on 2/28/08


Marcia: Yes I agree with you in toto Faith without good works is dead.:-)Peace
Frances::Those who consort with the dead see only the dead & stay dead .Is that what you want from this life?For you to make such a statement you must have had affirmation.But then does the devil tell lies?You are a smart woman Frances use the gift of wisdom not innuendo.that is satans ploy.
---Emcee on 2/27/08


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Frances::BTW Fatima is a town in Portugal.I am told that it got its name from the daughter of Mohammed who also was converted and married a catholic.That is heresay but I guess you can check it out. Smiles to you too.
---Emcee on 2/27/08


Fatima is from the devil. The events have been performed by Satan. The Catholic Church, as Andy said below, is the whore of Revelations. Mary was a human being, she does not make reappearances, competing with Jesus. No, any appearances of 'Mary' are of the devil himself.
---frances on 2/27/08


Emcee,

I believe that faith is more then just believing it is acting on what you believe and trusting what you believe. Thankyou for all your efforts, I respect you also.
---Marcia on 7/31/07


Marcia::Far be it for me to sow seeds of doubt.I also do not call you a sinner, I dont know you Only Jesus our God knows.I was merely answering a question. salvation by Faith alone, which I thought was incorrect as there are other things involved-not faith alone-I do not doubt my love for my God Family & the willingness to walk straight & upright, You alone know your own.I just respect you like I should you are a lady.Peace & Blessings:-)
---Emcee on 7/31/07


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Emcee:

You presumn that I am a sinner and you are right. I am humbled. Completly humbled by a Holy God who would care so much for me that he would take my sins upon himself in older that I might be Holy. Nevertheless, he kept his promise and all those in the OT who waited for his coming were not disapointed.He came just like he said he would. And not only did he come into this sinful world. He died our death on the Cross. He did not die on the Cross for nothing. He did it for you and I.
---Marcia on 7/31/07


Emcee:

God knew there was no way we could live a sinless life, so he made a way where there seemed to be no way. Now he has promised that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. You Know what Emcee, this may come as a shock to you but I believe this with all my heart and soul. You may try to sow seed of doubt in my soul but there no room for it. My garden blossoms with the WORD of GOD.
---Marcia on 7/31/07


Marcia::Jn3:15-18 Speaks about belief in Jesus this is imperative. But your interpretation is different as you say this is the only requirement While it may be a promise Using that as a lever to gain admittance to heaven would be presumptious on our part which requires our adherence to His holy will as well.so Presumption would be like taking advantage of what God says and using it to your advantage.This is wrong as he has said many other thing.contd
---Emcee on 7/30/07


#2 Marcia::"Nothing defiled enters heaven",that means other conditions exist.To rely just on that alone is presumptious by presumingon God's mercy.eg you may invite me to your lovely spotless home but you expect me to remove my dirty boots before entering.So also our souls must be spotless.Belief does not make that happen.Remember you walk on your soles-:)
---Emcee on 7/30/07


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Ruben:
(faith is to be led to think that he or she cannot know whether they "have eternal life.)

Rueben you are leaning on your own understanding. Why don't you try leaning on the WORD?

I would challenge you to read through the HALL OF FAITH in HEBREWS 11 you will meet some GREAT FAITH WARRIORS who were not afraid to take God at his WORD.
---Marcia on 7/30/07


Ruben:
THE GREATEST OF THESE WAS ABRAHAM who trusted GODs WORD so much that he left his homeland in serch of the Promise land. THE EVIDENCE of GODs faithfulness is embedded in history. I Know I am going to Heaven. Why? Because GOD told me so. If I am sinning and am wrong to have faith in GODs WORD then I don't want to be right.
---Marcia on 7/30/07


Marcia- faith is to be led to think that he or she cannot know whether they "have eternal life."


In John 5:19 Jesus cure the man at the pool and then he tells the man later in verse 14, "See, you are well! SIN NO MORE, THAT NOTHING WORSE BEFALL YOU." And in the woman caught in adultery in John 8:1-10. Jesus had stop them to stoning her to death, but in verse 11 He said, "Neither do I condemn you, GO, AND DO NOT SIN AGAIN." Does that sound like eternal life?
---Ruben on 7/30/07


Marcia :: To argue just for the sake oof it is not my bag of taste .But you believe your theory with Presumption Purgatory & the rest But you will yet bow to the truth The most stubborn do I just do his bidding through the H/S
---Emcee on 7/30/07


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Emcee>>

You must have temperary amnesia go to the Blog Quetion, Are Catholic Trully Saved?
Is this not what you said?

(Marcia::(...) Catholics do not presume because it is a deadly Sin(...).

This is a contracdiction to God's WORD and PROMISE. (John 3:16)
---Marcia on 7/30/07


Emcee>>


1 John 5:13

One of the most disturbing things that can happen to ones' faith is to be led to think that he or she cannot know whether they "have eternal life." In a reaction to the (Catholics) position of Sin of Presumption and Purgatory" some have gone to the opposite extreme. The result has been that too many brethren unable to express confidence about whether they can know at the present time if they "have eternal life" .
---Marcia on 7/30/07


Emcee>>

It is one thing to counter false teaching with truth,It is quite another to react to false teachings to the point where brethren are given such a one-sided view of redemption that they have little or no assurance.

I rest my case.
God Bless and keep seeking Beloved.
---Marcia on 7/30/07


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