Explain The Trinity To Me
There's some Christian who believes in Trinity and some believes that JESUS is GOD the FATHER? I am confused ... Is JESUS, HOLY SPIRIT- the same as GOD the FATHER (they are one)? Please comments.
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Helpful Blog Vote (16)
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Amen Duane! Yahshua is not a God of himself, he POINTED TO THE INVISIBLE SPIRIT WHO IS IN HEAVEN AS OUR ONLY God, and Father!
Matt 26:39 'O MY FATHER, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me, nevertheless, NOT MY WILL, BUT AS YOUR WILL BE DONE'"
In the OT, the cup is a metaphor for the divine punishment of sin. Christ would become the target of untold divine wrath, as every sin that had ever been committed would be heaped on this one sinless obedient son! He who had sought ALWAYS to do THE WILL OF HIS FATHER perfectly. Yahweh IN HEAVEN SAID "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased," would now experience His Father's overflowing wrath for all sin. God was not tortured by his own wrath his son was. |
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---gracynluv on 8/29/08 |
lower the degrees and the water becomes a solid body which is God the Son, raise the degrees and water vapors in steam and becomes invisible which is God the Holy Spirit: Eloy on 8/28/08
Where do you come up with such a crazy analogy which is so off base and unscriptural. God warns us about adding to His Word: Pro 30:5-6 Do not add to His words lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar."
For the time will come when they will not endure SOUND DOCTRINE (trinity is not sound) but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their OWN DESIRES, and will TURN their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths." 2 Tim 4:3-4 |
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---gracynluv on 8/29/08 |
Jesus told me "" Those that DO the WILL of my FATHER the SAME is my BROTHER,
Yahshua(Jesus)IS my Brother, NOT my Father!
Jesus said we have but one Father and he's in Heaven and to Call NO other man Father...
Eloy_the sad thing is you are the one who has err'ed, and don't even know it...
I would be careful blurting out words that will be used against you one day!
Who do you think created "The Word" that was made flesh and sent unto us for salvation and plowed a path to our Father(God) in Heaven? |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 8/29/08 |
An understanding of the Jewish Law of Agency shows Yahshua to be the shaliach, the agent of God. Do you even know what this is ELOY?
Yahshua worshipped God as HIS God, thus showing Yahweh is the God OF Yahshua! God does not worship anyone as "God" but is the object of such divine worship from others. How can God, who is already the Most High God, pray to, serve, be resurrected BY, and worship one higher? How can God worship, serve, and pray to another entity? (A point you may need to consider it that one can be "worshipped" without them being God, however, the worship Yahshua showed was divine worship of his God! Reverence and adoration of Yahshua the Messiah is NOT the same as the "worship" given G-d.) |
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---gracynluv on 8/28/08 |
.duane dudley martin, if your lie was true, then Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures are a lie, for both Jesus Christ and the Holy Scriptures profess that Jesus Christ is indeed the Father. Therefore are you prepared to pay for your blasphemy? |
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---Eloy on 8/29/08 |
Jesus can't be God the Father, Because there was a voice that came out of Heaven and said"This is my beloved SON in whom I am well pleased"
I go unto my Father to build a house for you.
Jesus standing on the righthand side of God at the stoning of Stephen
Believe in me and my Father will send the Holy Ghost(comforter) to you.
I don't have time to give you the 50 or so bible verses that deal with this issue. |
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---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 8/28/08 |
" Jesus says: "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE."
Eloy if you want a clear understanding of what Jesus said you need to stop with the assumption and clearly LISTEN to what Jesus said, if you truly are true worshipper of Yahweh you will humble your spirit to God, and listen wisely.
Please read carefully what Yahshua said on Jn 17:11
"Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I COME TO THEE, HOLY FATHER, keep through thine own name those whom HAST GIVEN ME, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE AS WE ARE ONE."
Eloy ask yourself how is Jesus ONE WITH THE FATHER? Your answer is IMPORTANT BECAUSE JESUS WANTS YOU (us) TO BE one with God THE SAME WAY HE WAS WITH Yahweh! |
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---gracynluv on 8/28/08 |
If Yahshua was meeting you for the first time and reached out to greet you , He would say, "Hi, My name is the salvation of God". To receive Him I would have to receive the IDENTITY that He introduced Himself with- "The salvation of God".
You can not receive anyone in your heart and love them with your soul without receiving who they are..
Jesus cried out, he who believes in ME, believes NOT IN ME , but IN HIM WHO SENT ME , and he who sees me sees HIM WHO SENT ME Jn 12 44.Jesus is so much wanted the people to understand this and RECEIVE HIM ,bc there was no way that they could receive the Father if they did not receive Him.
Satan tries to keep u from this truth by deceiving many into worshiping a triad. |
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---gracynluv on 8/28/08 |
gracynluv, metaphorically let us say water is God the Father, lower the degrees and the water becomes a solid body which is God the Son, raise the degrees and water vapors in steam and becomes invisible which is God the Holy Spirit: Or metaphorically again, drop 3 drops of water, God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost upon each other, and you will have 1 drop of water, which is 1 God. |
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---Eloy on 8/28/08 |
As a triangle, there's 3 aspects or manifestations of God: God the Father- YHWH (Forever Existing), and God the Son- Iesous (Salvation), and God the Holy Ghost- Siloah (Sent). Jesus is God. Jesus professes to be God, and Jesus proves he is God. The 3 nouns "the Father" and "the Word" and "the Holy Ghost" are all manifestations of the one God, namely, Jesus. Represented like 3 points of a triangle, so is God. According to the Holy Scripture, Jesus is called the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, he is Immanuel, God with us. Please read Isaiah 48:16, 7:14, 8:10, 9:6, Matthew 28:19, I John 5:7,8. |
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---Eloy on 8/28/08 |
Jesus says: "I and Father are one. I am the Almighty. He that sees me sees the Father. Believe me that I in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me because of the very miracles' sake." John 10:30+ Revelation 1:8+ John 12:44,45+ John 14:9,11. Yes I serve the only Everlasting Triune God, Jesus Christ, the Most High God and the King of glory. |
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---Eloy on 8/28/08 |
gracynluv, "For to us a child is born, to us a Son is given, and His name will be called, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father. Note, God my Yeshuah, I will trust and not fear: for YH YHWH, my strength and song, he also is become my salvation. Note, YHWH has proclaimed to the ends of the earth, Say to the daughter of Zion, Note, your Yeshuah comes: note, his reward with him, and his recompense forward of him. Go you all therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Isaiah 9:6+ 12:2+ 62:11+ Matthew 28:19+ I John 5:7. |
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---Eloy on 8/28/08 |
"Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equal... no one is higher than the other..."
---Tim on 8/27/08
This statement is contradicting to what Yahshua taught.Jn 20:17 and Yahshua's prayer in Jn 16 and 17.
Jn 15:1-2 Jesus SAID , I am the true vine, and my Father is THE VINE DRESSER. "
Clearly the VINE DRESSER IS GREATER THEN THE VINE.Jesus said "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit HE (YAHWEH) taketh away.
"Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord OUR God is ONE Lord." The words "OUR God" indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, he said "our God" which includes Jesus HAVING A God.John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend TO MY God and YOUR God. |
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---gracynluv on 8/27/08 |
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Jn 17:20-23 ...I pray also for those who will believe in me, that ALL OF THEM MAYBE ONE, Father, JUST AS YOU ARE IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May THEY ALSO BE IN US so that the world may believe THAT YOU HAVE SENT ME.
The God I serve is clearly not a triad God.
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Amen, the spirit that has swept away so many professing christians unable to see plain verses for what it says ...ADDING manipulating to rcc trinity to it rather than staying in the simplicity of Christ in His Word
if we are all ONE as Christ said in this verse then by reasoning of a beastly trinity we are really not individuals at all we are one substance of billions of beings ...how sad religion leads so many away from God The Father and Christ |
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---Rhonda on 8/27/08 |
(Jn 20:17) Jesus SAID, .."GO INSTEAD TO MY BROTHERS and tell them, 'I am returning TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD"
Jesus' God is HIS Father, therefore Jesus is not Yahweh.
Jame 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down FROM THE FATHER of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
My fellowship is with the Father AND WITH HIS SON.
Jn 17:20-23 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me, that ALL OF THEM MAYBE ONE, Father, JUST AS YOU ARE IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May THEY ALSO BE IN US so that the world may believe THAT YOU HAVE SENT ME.
The God I serve is clearly not a triad God. |
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---gracynluv on 8/27/08 |
If anyone can fully comprehend the Trinity... they might not be human. I believe this is where God shows us to be humble... we don't know it all, and will never know it all until his Glory is revealed to us. And i come to understand it most as God as a schizophrenic (and im not joking)
Our God is One but 3 different personalities.
We got God the Father, Jesus Christ the son, and the Holy Spirit. we can understand it as roles of God. God as the Father, Jesus the son that brings us back to the Father, and the Holy Spirit that guides us after reciving the Son as our lord and savior. But also understand that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equal... no one is higher than the other... cuz they are the same single being :) |
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---Tim on 8/27/08 |
"If I pour water from a cup into two more cups they are still filled with the same water, except there are three different vessels. Imagine the water is God and the vessels are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Anthony
ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GOD HEAD IS IN Jesus. Jesus is the only VESSEL WHICH Yahweh was please to FULLY INDWELL IN, we are all God's vessels first of all but we do not have the fullness in God in us FOR CHRIST IS THE ONLY PERFECT Tabernacle of God.
Therefore to say that "the water is God and the vessels are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." then you are speaking of 4 beings here, [God as the water], the father, son, and holyspirit are vessels, blasphemy, show me a scripture. |
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---gracynluv on 8/27/08 |
The scriptures do point to the fact that Jesus claimed to be God and the writer Paul claimed that the Spirit is the Lord and that God is Spirit. God isn't constrained by the laws of the physcial universe He created. I will however use physcial things to explain. If I pour water from a cup into two more cups they are still filled with the same water, except there are three different vessels. Imagine the water is God and the vessels are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. God is love (heart/seat of the emotions and will) Jesus is the word (mind) and the Spirit is the soul ((soul= Pnuema or breath and/or wind. God in the garden place pnuema(spirit) into Adam he lived)). We are made in His image. |
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---Anthony_Perry on 8/27/08 |
God has three essences, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God the Father is the creator of everything. God the Son became human, Jesus, and walked with us in human form. God the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God that lives in all Christians. I hope this helps. |
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---Shawn on 8/26/08 |
A-men sister Eloia, children learn from their parents, just as also the Christian learns from Christ. Learning and understanding comes from him whom gives it. Many people remain in darkness because they never ask the Light for answers to their questions that they may have about him. Jesus loves for us to ask of him, even "as a Father pities Children, YHWH pities them that regard him." Psalm 103:13. Praying to the Prayer Receiver, and fasting the flesh, and feeding on His Word brings understanding, spiritual discernment, and the deep things of God, which the natural human cannot receive. |
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---Eloy on 8/26/08 |
MEDIATOR- a person who mediates, esp. BETWEEN PARTIES.
Synonyms: interceder, intercessor, middleman
For there is ONE GOD(NOT 3), and ONE MEDIATOR(not 1/3) mediator also between God and men, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS, who gave Himself as a ransom for all.
God did not ransom 1/3 of HIMSELF. God did not die for your sin, HE CAN NOT DIE.
The ONE MEDIATOR, THE DOOR, THE LAMB OF GOD, THE SON OF GOD, DIED FOR YOUR SIN, NOT THE Father. "For God so loved the world, he GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" NOT 1/3 of himself!.
Messiah literally mean the "anointed one" God is not the anointed, HE IS THE ANOINTER. |
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---gracynluv on 8/26/08 |
I Totally agree with you, Eloy. WELL SAID. Jesus Himself said, "No one can come the Father except through me". That leaves absolutely no argument as to his position as our only mediator...HE alone, no other. "There is only ONE mediator between GOD and man, The Lord Jesus Christ." Thanks for your comment. I try to help children understand the trinity and that seemed to help them. No way is there a perfect example to explain THE God in the trinity, GOD in three persons. If He were so small I could explain HIM...he'd be very small indeed. So I'm satisfied with just taking Him at his word...and rest in the fact that He didn't say we have to understand. RIGHT?? PTL |
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---eloia on 8/26/08 |
'I'm ONE person but in entirely different capacities. 1. daughter 2. Wife. 3. mother. ONE PERSON but different capacities, different relationships' Eloia
It's off base for the FACT Jesus(Yahshua) is NOT HIS OWN FATHER, you are not your OWN mother. Jesus is not a father for he has no children.
Jesus is our brother! Matt 12:50) For WHOEVER DOES the WILL of [MY FATHER] IN HEAVEN IS MY BROTHER, MY SISTER AND MY MOTHER."
Jesus ALSO SAID Matt 13:43) 'Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom OF THEIR FATHER. He who has ears, let him hear'.
Do you have SPIRITUAL EARS, DO YOU HEAR WHAT Jesus said? He is not pointing to himself as the true GOD. He is pointing to the SPIRIT BEING WHO IS IN HEAVEN! |
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---Gracynluv on 8/26/08 |
Eloia, I like your analogy, but we must talk exclusively to Jesus Christ in order to be accepted. Many think they can pray to God apart from Jesus, but they are not accepted by God, because Jesus is the only acceptable door to God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is in Jesus. Jesus says: "I am The Way, The truth, and The Life: no human comes to the Father, except by me." John 14:6. That means, there is No prayer to God without the only real single acceptable Mediator, named Jesus. In vain we could pray to other ancestors as some religions do, or in vain we could pray to fabricated deities as some religions do, but all these are the sin of idolatry: for Jesus is the only Everlasting Lord God that is worshipped. |
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---Eloy on 8/25/08 |
"God the Spirit brings us to life, guides us, teaches us, convicts us"
Noo..., Yahweh is the ONLY TRUE God, there's no "god the spirit"! The Father is the one who guides, teaches, who convicts
The Holy Spirit is God's power, His mind, why do you NEED TO ADD MORE TO WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS? The GIFT (THE HS) IS NOT GREATER THEN THE GIVER, which is the FATHER OF US ALL BELIEVERS!
Spirit of God = God's personal, powerful, active presence in the world.
Joel 2:20-32
After punishment by "locusts,"Yahweh restores his People
[POURS OUT HIS SPIRIT] on all "flesh"
Eze 39:21-29 Yahweh gathers his people [PUTS HIS SPIRIT IN THEM] to walk in his statutes. |
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---gracynluv on 8/25/08 |
I like to think of The Trinity of GOD as one person but three capacities. God/Father God/Son, God/Holy Spirit, but only ONE GOD/person.
Think if it this way. I'm ONE person but in entirely different capacities. 1. daughter 2. Wife. 3. mother. ONE PERSON but different capacities, different relationships. Still one person. Am I off base with this analogy?. |
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---Eloia on 8/25/08 |
Gracenluv, you did not understand what I said. They are distinct from each other as persons, but not distinct from God. They are all of the same essence. Forces don't speak. The Holy Spirit does, and guides believers through their lives. Who else is guiding the believers? "It is not the Father, He is seated with Christ. It is not a force, it is the Holy Spirit who speaks to our spirit and directs our every action." God the Spirit brings us to life, guides us, teaches us, convicts us, brings light to God's Word, Scripture.
But there is one condition to believing in the Holy Spirit, that is to be born again of the Spirit. Otherwise you will not believe who God really is. |
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---Mark_V. on 8/25/08 |
In the Bible Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as being the Spirit of God. How can God's Spirit be SEPARATED fron Him? (As WE are created in God's image: Can two men inhabit ONE body)? No. So the Holy Spirit MUST be something other than a "third personage or third person" of a claimed trinty. The holy Spirit IS God's power, His mind (thoughts) if you will, and is evidenced through an understanding of His word that goes beyond the material comprehension of men into that of the Spiritual. |
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---Doug on 8/25/08 |
***Gracenluv, The Holy Spirit is not distinct from God, Hello?*** ---Mark_V. on 8/20/08
Reaaly Mark, that's what I've been saying all this time, I DO NOT BELIEVE THE HS is DISTICT from the Father, but TRINITARIANS do.
The Trinity Doctrine states that there is One God revealed through THREE DISTICT Persons as the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.
To me, there is ONLY TWO beings, the Father and the SON, who is ONE in MIND, PURPOSE and WILL, not in SUBSTANCE OR MATTER! One is a SPIRIT, one is BONE and FLESH. |
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---gracynluv on 8/25/08 |
Look at it this way. The Trinity can be compared to water. You have water being God the Father (its original state). You then Ice (Christ) because He's the physical manifestation of God. Then you have steam (the Holy Spirit). All three are forms of water. Christ says that "I and my Father are one" and "before that Moses was.. I AM" God is the only one that has the authority to use those words. If Christ wasn't God, why would He say that? |
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---Paul on 8/24/08 |
Rohada, Did you say logic when talking about God? That is funny. If you dont mind, may I ask what is you faith please? There is no logic in the ordidnances of God because He do dont think like you and I. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isa 55: 8-9).
The bible is the word of God and "God is Spirit" (Jon 4: 24). Therefore, we can only understand His words spiritually not literally of logically. |
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---Bai on 8/22/08 |
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What 'organization' Rhonda. I am lead by no organization that I am aware of. My guide is God's Word and the Holy Spirit.
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...proudly announcing with "no embarrassment" religious organization - YOU SERVE it ....professing Christ lips blinded unaware religious organization comes first ... "belonging" to man made religious organization YET YOU left out Christ and God ...re-read your post ...it's very telling - insistence on finding out what other "team" everyone else is on? either one serves God His Holy Spirit dwells in and guiding them to HIS Truth or ONE SERVES religious system can't serve both ...God isn't a sports team and HIS Kingdom is not of Satans world |
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---Rhonda on 8/21/08 |
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Also, "AND GOD SAID, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS(Gen 1:26). When God said "LET US, AFTER OUR LIKENESS"
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How absurd then I guess in your delusional mind you believe you are a 3 being creature as well?
If God created us in HIS image a logically thinking person would understand that we are exactly LIKE HIM
but somehow the pagan trinity are so swept away by another spirit these believers want to believe they are created in the likeness of God but we are individual and God is a 3 being in one creature
what you fail to understand just from the point you cannot make from scripture is you call God a LIAR by making this claim |
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---Rhonda on 8/21/08 |
Gracenluv, The Holy Spirit is not distinct from God, Hello? have you not been listening. He is part of the Godhead, God. He is a person because He speaks. Forces don't speak, Hello? The Holy Spirit lives in us Gracenluv. The works we do, we do them by the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
Ps. 51:11, David wanted God to let the Spirit remain in Him.
Simon didn't want to buy the Holy Spirit, he wanted to buy the gifts of the Spirit.
2 Kings 2:9 is not speaking about the Holy Spirit and two of them. In Israel the firstborn son inherited a double share of his father's possessions and with it the right of succession (Deut. 21:17. Please read the story it will help you. |
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---Mark_V. on 8/20/08 |
Rhonda, as a penticustal Christian, I believe in the Trinty. The Holy spirit is God. Jesus himself said, "GOD IS SPIRIT: AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH(John 4:24). Also, "AND GOD SAID, LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE, AFTER OUR LIKENESS(Gen 1:26). When God said "LET US, AFTER OUR LIKENESS", is very clear that God Himself, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, were there from the begining of creation. And it is true that God the Holy Spirit dowell in us. |
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---Bai on 8/21/08 |
What 'organization' Rhonda. I am lead by no organization that I am aware of. My guide is God's Word and the Holy Spirit. |
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---Warwick on 8/20/08 |
When John the Baptist baptised with water it was a tradition used to confess your sin and proclaim your repentence. The tradition today is a proclamation of faith and belief in Christ. Those of you who believe you are baptised in the Holy Spirit through water baptism are mistaken and deny it's power. The Holy Spirit baptises, and only those baptised of the Holy Spirit can enter Gods' kingdom. Jesus makes this very clear. |
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---Kenny on 8/20/08 |
Donna you don't attend any church? Attending church (as commanded) is vital so as to be challenged by preaching. Otherwise we go astray.
I didn't say the Holy Spirit is a god, but that He's a distinct part of the one God-head. You are confused because you anthropomorphize God seeing Him as a man, or three men, when He's one, and not a man.
Read Gen:18 the Lord appeared to Abraham as three men whom he called 'Lord.' Two left but Abraham continued to call the remaining one Lord. See 19:24 'then the Lord rained down burning sulphur, on Soddom and Gomorrah-from the Lord out of the heavens.' God on earth rained down sulphur from God in heaven! As three person's He's called God, as two He's called God, as one He's called God. |
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---Warwick on 8/20/08 |
How does your religious system interpret Simon Magnus buying the Holy Spirit that I posted earlier from Acts? ...or does your system believe Simon was trying to "buy a god"?
---Rhonda on 8/19/08
Good question Rhonda, and those who consider the Spirit as a person DISTINCT from God, doesn't have an awnser, they CAN NOT ACCEPT THE HS as GOD'S GIFT.
David PRAYED TO THE FATHER that THE SPIRIT not be REMOVED FROM HIM Ps. 51:11.
Elisha PRAYED to RECIEVE A DOUBLE PORTION 2 Kings 2:9.
The holy spirit is clearly the power of God! |
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---gracynluv on 8/20/08 |
Rhonda, You said Simon wanted to buy power, and then ask if he was trying to buy the Holy Spirit or a god. To make it seem as though the Spirit is not a person but a force. You twisted the passages.
Simon believed the good news about Jesus and was baptized. He was impressed with the ministry of Peter and John. When he saw that through the laying on of hands upon people spiritual gifts such as tongues and prophecy were given, and so he offered them money to give him this type of gifts. Which was a greivous request and Peter told him to repent of his wickedness and pray to the Lord. As Christians we are empowered by the Holy Spirit who lives in us already. But He never stops been a person. And it is Him who is doing the work through us. |
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---Mark_V. on 8/20/08 |
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...deny the trinity,etc. They're locked into specific organizational beliefs either denying what Scripture says or attempting to twist Scripture into unnatural meanings.
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and by your very words you OBEY MEN (Acts 5:29) locked into the belief of 3 in 1 "god" adopted by rcc to win over the pagans ....and your organization is deemed better in your eyes than Gods Holy Word ...serving your institute and so far from God The Father ....religion (lest you forget) is man made as are many of their antichrist doctrines
Gods Holy Word is divine and only open to those WHOM HE CALLS not the self appointed elect who by their own words are "cheering on their home team (religious system)" |
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---Rhonda on 8/20/08 |
Jesus says: "I am the Almighty." Jesus says: "I will dwell in you." Revelation 1:8+ John 14:20+ 20:22,23. |
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---Eloy on 8/20/08 |
It's revealing that anti-trinitarians refuse to say what denomination they attend. That's good evidence they belong to organizations which deny the trinity,etc. They're locked into specific organizational beliefs either denying what Scripture says or attempting to twist Scripture into unnatural meanings.
The Holy Spirit: Matt.28.19,John 14:26 & 15:26,Acts 13:2, & Acts 5:3-4
People are baptized into His name
He's counselor
Teacher
He reminds
Testifies
Speaks
Commands
Calls Himself me and I
Peter equates lying to Him as lying to God.
Nothing suggests anything other than He is a person. These references don't fit with Him being a force, or impersonal. |
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---Warwick on 8/19/08 |
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What denomination do you attend? I attend the Christian and Missionary Alliance and have no embarassment saying this. What about you?
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Of course you have no embarrasment saying that ...proudly claim alliance with a religious system ...you SERVE your religious system ...another daughter church of the rcc ...many proudly wear their favorite sports teams college caps tshirts etc
I worship and serve God The Father through his son Christ ...God calls those whom HE wants to work with into HIS TRUTH, Christ flock is a LITTLE flock ....Christ will gather those who obey HIM |
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---Rhonda on 8/19/08 |
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Rhonda what you appear to be proving is that as the Holy Spirit has all the personal qualities of God the Father He is equal and as equally personal as God the Father.
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Warwick
No I'm not "proving anything" because you see the Holy Spirit as a "god" it is you who makes these assumptions
How does your religious system interpret Simon Magnus buying the Holy Spirit that I posted earlier from Acts? ...or does your system believe Simon was trying to "buy a god"? |
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---Rhonda on 8/19/08 |
gayla, Right On! Keep it simple and to the Truth. So many get so caught up on intellectualizing God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, that they create confusion not only for themselves, but for others. The long winded intellectualization starves the living Spirit right out of the simple Truth. How hard do you folks want to make it? The Bible is a revelation to be received as little children by faith. Its not a college course to be overly dissected and intellectualized! If individuals accept truth as God intended, it would be by faith and received in very simple terms. God does not give lengthy details for a reason. Our "think we know it all brains" couldn't handle it all. So He is kind and makes it easy for us. Amazing. |
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---Robert on 8/19/08 |
Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God are all one.
The bible says " hear o Isreal the Lord your God is one God. There is no Trinity, only one God and His name is Jesus |
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---Doug on 8/18/08 |
The Holy Spirit ..the Spirit of Truth
(( you say is the Father ????))
Jesus said,**will not speak of Himself**
then they are saying GOD the Father is in submission to the Son OR SOMEONE ELSE HE'S HEARING THINGS FROM.
LISTEN:
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth,is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear ,
WAIT JUST ONE MINUTE HERE...Who is GOD the Father hearing from????? ANOTHER god?
Can't be Jesus, cause only the FATHER KNOWS when Jesus will return....
Yikes!!!!! What unregenerate men won't do to blaspheme! |
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---kathr4453 on 8/18/08 |
Warwick,
"And the SPIRIT OF THE LORD shall rest upon him(JESUS), the SPIRIT of Wisdom and Understanding(1), the SPIRIT of Counsel and Might(2), the SPIRIT of Knowledge and of the Fear of the Lord.(3)" ISA11:1-2
So are these 3Spirits, gods DISTINCT from from Yahweh, Warwick?
Why is it so hard to understand in a BORN AGAIN BELIEVER, the Spirit of God is the power source that CREATES the Mind of Christ WITHIN US.
The Spirit of Wisdom is God's SUPERNATURAL THOUGHTS, the Spirit of Understanding is God's supernatural ENLIGHTEN OF THOSE THOUGHTS, the Spirit of Counsel is God's PERSONAL INSTRUCTION, and the Spirit of Strength is His SUPERNATURAL ABILITY to carry out those INSTRUCTIONS in US. |
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---gracynluv on 8/18/08 |
God the Father, God the Son & God the Holy Ghost. Just as we are soul, spirit and body, three in one, so, are the Godhead, three in one. God the Father, was in heaven, when Jesus the Son, was on earth, when Jesus went back to heaven, he sent the Holy Spirit to live within the hearts of man, to lead and guide into all truth. |
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---gayla on 8/17/08 |
I am sorry to interject But must remind you, ALL, that the 3RD Person of the Blessed Trinity is exactly as is explained. The 3RD Person or it would not be a Trinity.Those who deny The existance of the Holy Spirit commit the Unforgiveable SIN.BE warned, none other will be given.
Are there not 3 sides and 3angles, (EQUAL) in an equilateral Triangle? |
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---MIC on 8/17/08 |
Rhonda what you appear to be proving is that as the Holy Spirit has all the personal qualities of God the Father He is equal and as equally personal as God the Father.
If the Holy Spirit is a force from God why does He call Himself me and I? Why does God go to such lengths to demonstrate His individuality? Why do we read that people are baptized into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? How can people be bapitzed into the name of a force? |
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---Warwick on 8/17/08 |
gracenluv you wrote: Why can't you not understand that the HS is not a 3rd person, rather it is "the DIRECT Divine Inspiration of the Father"
Simply because Scripture disagrees with you.
People are baptized into His name, along with God the Father, and God the Son-He is counselor,He teaches,He reminds,He testifies
He speaks,He commands, He calls Himself I and me.
Peter equates lying to Him as lying to God.
Nothing in these verses suggests anything other than the Holy Spirit being a person. These references don't fit with Him being a force, or impersonal.
What denomination do you attend gracenluv? |
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---Warwick on 8/16/08 |
gracenluv you say the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself and I answered: '...in Acts 13:2 we read '....the Holy Spirit said "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work for which I have called them." Contrary to what you say the Holy Spirit speaks and calls Himself by the personal pronoun 'I'.
He calls Himself 'me' and 'I' which shows you are wrong. You don't acknowledge your error but attempt to shift the discission.
What denomination do you attend? I attend the Christian and Missionary Alliance and have no embarassment saying this. What about you? |
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---Warwick on 8/16/08 |
Warwick, Why can't you not understand that the HS is not a 3rd person, rather it is "the DIRECT Divine Inspiration of the Father"(Josef IS PERFECTLY correct on this as well as Rhonda) I've written many verses for you to read and pray that you are able to understand, I've quoted OT scriptures confirming the NT teaching about exactly just what the holy spirit is.
PLEASE STUDY THE 7 FOLD Spirit of God, and PLEASE do tell me if you believe these spirits are DISTINCT from the Father OR if you believe like I do Simply stated in scriptures,it is the Mind of Christ is God's supernatural Thoughts (Logos) produced in our lives by His supernatural Power (Dunamis). |
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---gracynluv on 8/15/08 |
**
Understand that the spirit of God we RECIEVE is not a separate person, but rather the gift of God to empower His people
**
True Gods Holy Spirit is not another "god" it is ONLY the spirit of God The Father
pagan priest SimonMagnus understood Holy Spirit was POWER of God The Father not "god" ...Simon wanted to buy power
Acts 8:18-20 ...when Simon saw ...Holy Spirit was given he offered them money ...give me also this power ..thy money perish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Simon Magnus didn't believe he was buying a personage of a "god" he wanted power which is why Apostles denied Simon the gift of Gods Spirit |
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---Rhonda on 8/15/08 |
Warwick,
Understand that the spirit of God we RECIEVE is not a separate person, but rather the gift of God to empower His people. In the OT, this empowering was TEMPORAL, hence David could pray that it not be REMOVED FROM HIM Ps. 51:11. It was also measured out differently to different people, Elisha could pray to receive a double portion 2 Kings 2:9. It was NOT GIVEN TO ALL, and therefore its presence was noteworthy Gen. 41:38. Since Pentecost, when the spirit was said to have 'come', it is NOW in ALL believers PERMANENTLY and WITHOUT MEASURE, as it had been given to Jesus Christ. He who had the spirit without measure (Jn 3:34), enabling him to do his Messianic work, POURED OUT THIS SAME SPIRIT on Pentecost Acts 2:33. |
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---gracynluv on 8/15/08 |
Gracynluv I am in complete agreement with your 8/14 post. The Holy Spirit is indeed the direct Divine Inspiration of the Father, given for the illumination of the mind of man as concerning His presence and His way. As believers we are indwelt with the Father-as the foundation, source and sustainer of life, the Son - as His Word, His disclosed Divine expression of Himself as 'The' Life,The creator, and the Holy Spirit - as His insight, empowerment and instructor regarding His Way of life, "The Light of man". Jesus is (in as much as can be contained bodily) the Fullness of the Great "I AM", "The Truth, The Way and The Life." |
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---Josef on 8/15/08 |
1
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People are baptized into His name, 'He' is counselor, He teaches,He reminds,He testifies, speaks,commands,calls Himself I-attributes of an individual, not a force.
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He (God The Father) as an individual is all these things by DWELLING in mind of a true Christian who is baptized in name of Christ receiving GIFT ("force") power of Gods Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38)
...He (God The Father) councils, teaches, reminds, testifies, speaks, commands through those whom He is working with by giving us his mind making us his first fruits (Rom 8:23)...these are the POWERS given to whom God calls by HIS force (His breath His Power) we are led to grow in grace and knowledge. |
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---Rhonda on 8/14/08 |
Gracenluv, Matt. 28:19 says 'Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Gramatically three persons.
You say the Holy Spirit does not speak of himself but in Acts 13:2 we read '....the Holy Spirit said "Set apart for me barnabas and Saul for the work for which I have called them." Contrary to what you say the Holy Spirit speaks and calls Himself by the personal pronoun 'I'.
In Acts 5:3,4 Peter says they lied to the Holy Spirit, then says you have not lied to men but to God. This equates the Holy Spirit with God. |
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---Warwick on 8/15/08 |
MarkV, Never say never. After Mass today, I asked the Priest to help me explain. Plus Catholic Answers.
Jesus has 2 Nature. Divine Person and Human Nature.
The substance of bread and wine is changed into Christ's Body and Blood.-Transubstantiation: Transfer.
The bread that is His Body is an Accident.
Not like a car accident.
But like Appearances.
Such as saying a pillow is soft.
Pillow is the Substances.
Soft is the Accident.
Softness can not stand alone.
No jar full of softness.
It needs something to appear on or in.
Jesus is the Substance. But to come to us visible/John 6, He chose bread and wine to be the accidents/ Appearances.
Thanks for your question. I learned something new today! |
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---Nicole on 8/14/08 |
Warwick,
The soul or the spirit of man is often personified like the spirit of God is. Why art thou cast down, O my soul? Ps. 42:5. I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up Luke 12:19. The spirit indeed is willing Matt. 26:41. The spirit of Titus was refreshed (2Cor. 7:13). Yet no one would ARGUE that the spirit of man is a SEPERATE PERSON from the man himself. The figure of speech Personification is universally and readily recognized,in the case of the Comforter ought to be recognized as well.
1 Cor. 2:11 The spirit of man bears the SAME relation to man as the spirit of God bears to God. As the spirit of man is not another person distinct from himself, so the spirit of God is not another person distinct from God. |
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---gracynluv on 8/14/08 |
Warwick,
Matt.28:19 we are baptized with God's Spirit, which is NOT DISTINCT from the father, it is not a seperate person. It is of the Power of God himself working in us.
The Holy Spirit is a GIFT from our Father
Luke 11:13 says "How much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?".
Acts 11:14-17 .. For as much then as God GAVE them the like GIFT as he did unto us..
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and YE SHALL RECIEVE THE GIFT of the Holy Ghost.Acts 2:38-39
John 7:37-39,
The Gift of the spirit is liken to a flowing rivers of living water, and those who are thirsty can drink of off this river. |
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---gracynluv on 8/14/08 |
Warwick,It is clear from Jn 16:13 that this Comforter is SENT, does not speak of himself and is instructed.
The Comforter, translated as Counselor, is said to fill the void created by Jesus going to the Father (Jn 14:12). By this spirit he would still be present: I will come to you (14:18), I am in you (14:20), and I will show myself (14:21). By this spirit his work with them would continue: IT WILL teach you(14:26), IT WILL remind you(14:26), IT WILL testify(15:26), IT WILL convict the world (16:8),IT WILL guide (16:13),IT WILL bring glory (16:14).
All of these statements POINT TO THE ROLE OF THE GIFT of holy spirit God has given in continuing the work that Jesus started, and even EMPOWERING his followers for greater works. |
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---gracynluv on 8/14/08 |
Nicole, there is no way you can get out of that one. You can twist and jump and give the reasons why the RCC believes in that, but it does not change the fact you and them are saying He changes His nature. If Jesus can turn into a piece of bread, and in you believes, millions of pieces, because everyone that takes the bread is eating Him. If they eat Him every Sunday, He has to have another nature. That of turning into an inanimat object. God manifested Himself as a man, but He never manifested Himself as an object that has no life.
As man, He proclaims, "He is the way, the Truth and the life" if it was as you say, then Jesus was lying because He turns Himself into an object with no life. |
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---Mark_V. on 8/14/08 |
God the Father and God the Son and God th eHoly Spirit are one essense, a unity. They share the same Godly attributes (Holy, omniscient, omnipotent, etc) and have existed forever despite being 3 distinct persons. c3conversations has a great post on trinitarianism. |
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---cross-bearer on 8/13/08 |
MarkV::It is unkind and unnatural to foist your doctrine that the RCC spread a false doctrine. The word is TRUE. It is not the RCC, but the word of God, who tells you This, JN6-:53-60. If the RCC reiterate this word how can they be False.I am sure there are others who see this what you call Falseness as BEING your own.Wonder why all Good people and Mods do not correct you. |
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---MIC on 8/13/08 |
Three natures of Christ.---Mark_V.
No, you bring up a good question. But, Jesus only 2 not 3.
But one statement is wrong. Only Life can give Life.
John 6:54-55 " He who feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal. For my flesh is real food, and my blood real drink."
I stand with Peter and not the other disciples in John6:66.
V 68 "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have Words of eternal life. We have come to believe, we are convinced that you are God's Holy One."
Note, Peter didn't say we understand you Jesus. No, he states we don't need to understand, knowing you are God is enough for us.
I pray you can understand, but if not, you may need to do what Peter did.
Trust! |
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---Nicole on 8/13/08 |
gravenluv you wrote: 'The Holy Spirit is God our Father, not another god,..'
Then how do you answer: Matt. 28.19, John 14:26 & 15:26,Acts 13:2, & Acts 5:3-4 where referring to The Holy Spirit, it says:
People are baptized into His name, 'He' is counselor, He teaches,He reminds,He testifies, speaks,commands,calls Himself I-attributes of an individual, not a force.
In Acts 5 Peter, speaking to Ananais equates lying to the Holy Spirit as lying to God- 'you have lied to the Holy Spirit'....'you have not lied to men but to God. Therefore the Holy Spirit is God, an individual-how can anyone lie to an impersonal force?
You're speaking philosophy whereas I'm quoting Scripture.
Answer please. |
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---Warwick on 8/13/08 |
AMEN CHAR! I love the simplicity of the testimony of the person who has the truth in them. And you have it! God is not the author of confusion, he wants us to know him, he revealed himself to us THROUGH Jesus Christ who is his WORD who became flesh, He's son is a perfect EXAMPLE of who and what we should become, the Son has the character of his father, and they both have the same purpose and will, and Yahshua prayed that we also become ONE with them, through the INDWELLING OF God's spirit. The Holy Spirit is God our Father, not another god, our father is the one who comforts us through his spirit that is in us. |
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---gracynluv on 8/13/08 |
Nicole, it doesn't matter what anyone say's, you will still find excuses. Devotion, you give another definition, and of course from the RCC, to justify what all of you do.
And you give another definition for the Trinity. Who is in danger is the RCC members who practice false doctrines. If Christ turns into a piece of Bread, "an inanimat object" Then He is 100% man, 100% God, and 100% inanimat object" From God manifested in the flesh to manifested in many objects that have no life. It isn't the bread turning to Christ, because I haven't seen that happen, so it has to be Christ turning to a piece of bread which has no life. Three natures of Christ. I am sure you have another justied answer for that. |
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---Mark_V. on 8/13/08 |
Our Father spoke...
HIS WORDS became Flesh...Jesus Christ, Who The Father calls his SON.
The Father confirms HIS WORDS:
By HIS Spirit:(Teacher)
The SPIRIT is God.
God is SPIRIT.
Greek Manuscript:
1John 7-8
For there are (3)that bear witness...
"The spirit,the water and the blood:these three are in agreement"
Rely on God in Spirit who tesifies of...THE WORD
1John5:3
IF you receive the witness of men,the witness of God is greater:For the witness OF GOD testifies of HIS SON.
These (3) ALL you need for truth.
False prophets will CLAIM they ALONE have access to the TRUTH with ANYTHING else....Books,Churches,Holy Men etc....
John10:30
"I and Father are ONE" |
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---char on 8/13/08 |
Mark_V, your devotion is it a Protestant definition?
You add to Mic's words as you add to the Bible and the Catechism.
"..RCC teaches and permits and allows within the Church."
HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE CATECHISM?
How can you add created idols?
images set up for public Devotion.---MIC 8/8
Catechism 971
Devotion differs essentially from the ADORATION which is given to the Incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.
What does one mean when he says:
She is so Devoted to him?
Is she is worshipping him?
Just because you don't have different words for different actions doesn't mean the rest of us can't express overselves. |
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---Nicole on 8/12/08 |
The Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, which the Catholic Church affixes to religious books, was and is a testimonial to the orthodoxy of doctrine of a given book.
It is a guarantee that there is nothing against the Christian and Catholic faith or moral doctrine. This practice served the needs of the faithful well.
An Imprimatur is an official declaration from the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church that a literary or similar work is free from error in matters of Roman Catholic doctrine and morals, and hence acceptable reading for faithful Roman Catholics.--Rev-Know-It-All.
As I said MarkV,
I can tell who wrote it.
Peter or Judas! |
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---Nicole on 8/11/08 |
Yahushua didn't pick 12 and one was bad,..---Ken
What are you saying? Jesus didn't pick 12 men? Someone else picked them? It is Scripture! What Bible are you reading?
Jesus picked Judas! Mark 3:13-18
He...SUMMONED THOSE WHOM HE WANTED and they came to Him. HE APPOINTED 12 whom He also named Apostles that they might be with Him and He might send them forth to preach..He appointed..V 19 Judas Iscariot.
Mark 14:18-21 "Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me."...One of the 12,
Jesus offers Salvation to EVERYONE!
We turn away from Him. He never turns from us. He even warns us as He was warning Judas. But, He forces no one.
Judas sent himself to hell, not God! |
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---Nicole on 8/11/08 |
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