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What Is A New Apostolic Church

Is the New Apostolic Church Christian, or who are they?

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Thanks. Yes, I kind of figured that. However, I was't sure, and when possible confusion exists, it's better to clarify to be sure.
---StrongAxe on 2/24/09

Strongaxe, i was actually backing you up with some additional info thats it. soory if youthought i was assuming other things,
---Andy on 2/24/09


My comment was reductio ad absurdum - that is, pointing out that Jaydeen_Belling's argument was logically inconsistent - that is, it fails regardless of whether or not apostolic succession exists or not.
---StrongAxe on 2/23/09

Stroingaxe. whenever investegating the "unbroken apostolic line", one ends up with Thre RCC. the pope, and more paricularly his carinals are said to hold that unbroken line.since Peter was the head of the first chuch. few problems with that theory however.
1. Paul admits that he was never anointed an apostle by the twelve, al he ghot was the handshake of brotherhood
2. God would have left the calling of the apostles in the hands of a totally hercetical church. does not sound like Gods way to me.
---Andy on 2/23/09


Please tell us which book, chapter, and verse says "those who are not sealed through the laying hands of a living Apostle will not enter into the Kingdom of God" - I don't recall ever reading that particular passage.

If what you say is, indeed, true, are there living Apostles in other churches besides the New Apostolic Church? If so, what's the problem? And if not, this means all Christians in the past 1900 years (except at the very start, and very recently) are going to hell - and it also begs the question of how the Apostles of the New Apostolic church received their Apostolic credentials, because without an unbroken chain of succession from 2000 years ago, the first one(s) could not have done so.
---StrongAxe on 2/21/09

The United Pentecostals are not new to this decade. They are a Jesus only group who see other Christians as worshiping 3 Gods bc they don't believe in the trinity. UPC's do not believe in a triune God. Also, they do not believe one is saved if there is no evedence of speaking in tongues. They have many rules that cause them to stumble like women may not wear make up, cut their hair, where "mens clothes" pants, and there are rules for men as well (like they must shave). To envolve themselves in an activity that is of the world, they must get the blessing of their pastor. Very cultish. Now, I do not know if these are the groups you are referring to in your question but they are to be avoided.
---jody on 2/21/09

Dear Rob, first of all i did not call you a catholic, i said this is a catholic idea, or a calvinist idea, or a Lutheran idea.Reading your blogs i must admit that you know the word quite well. However let me ask you a question, when studying what studiebooks do you use, what denomination wrote them? when i said that i am an orthodox apostolic it really means that besides the BIBLE i do not accept any authority as deffenate. Your conclussion that the apostolic time is ended can not be confirmed by any bible scripture whatsoever.since the bible does in no mean (both litterally or implying through the line of combined scriptures)confirms this denominational point of vieuw, i feel free to accept or reject it, without risking being heretic.
---Andy on 2/21/09

Andy, I am not nor have I even been a Roman Catholic. I do not agree with their teachings or doctrines.

I am a Christian, which means I am a believer and follower of CHRIST.

I read and study scripture for the true context which it is written. This takes much time and effort. I do this because of the warnings which are wriiten in Romans 1:18-32 and 2 Peter Chapter Two.

I will be honest in saying there are things written which I wish were not written, but I do not change scripture to say what I want it to say, Revelation 22:18-21.
---Rob on 2/20/09

Rob, at this point you are using an RCC doctrine to silence anyone else that manifested himself as a called send one from God. this invented dogma was upheld by Luther and calvin to justify their rejection of the apostolic ministries who they thought where heretic, nevertheless they forgot that even they where heretics according RCC. Paul and barnabas apostles Acts 14.14 Andronicus and Junia (Junia is a womanname)Rom 16.7, 1 Cor 12.28-29 and Eph 4.11justifying the need of the apostolic ministrie in Church. It is obvious as when to rjecting the apostolic office in church one actually prevents the church to be build and restored.
---Andy on 2/20/09

As to what Jaydeen said, most of us will agree that the laying on of hands (I'm orthodox apostolic if someone wants to label me)is not nessecary by the apostle to ghet saved. Joel sais that whoever calls upon the name of the LORD shall be saved, even in the beginning of the church majority never saw an apostle so all these early church-builders (inluding the Ethiopian chamberlain baptised by Phillip the deacon)would have repented and worked in vain.not so.
---Andy on 2/20/09

Andy, the Bible clearly states the names of those who were Apostles of Christ.

I challenge you to show me from scripture where Barnabas, Apollos, or anyone else were ever named or called an Apostle of Christ.

Do you have no reagards concerning what the Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 11:1-15, along with what CHRIST HIMSELF, said in Revelation 2:2?

What about what is written in Acts 1:21-26?

Those who claim to be Apostles of Christ, were they there during the time of Christ's Ministry while He was here on earth then taken up into Heaven?

Those who claim to be Apstle's of Christ, were they eye witnesses of Christ Resurection?
---Rob on 2/19/09

Only 14 apostles mentioned in the bible? there are quite more, first we have the 12 apostles of Christ, next to that we have Matthias the apostle then again Paul and Barnabas. allready fifteen apostles. Apolos is also counted amongst the apostles not to mention the felllow apostles mentioned by Paul in his salutations (i believe that the roman letter has the most mentioned by name) an apostle is someone who has been sent. yet of course to the dogmatics gloriefying the Episcopat and the presbyterat a name as apostle sounds treatening, since these look at it as a grade rather then a function within the body.
---Andy on 2/19/09

Jaydeen Belling:-who laid hands on you to give you this power?I still await your reply to my previous question Who gets the Cash.?
---MIC on 1/24/09

Those who have carefully studied the Bible, and have done a study on the Apostles, know you will only find the names of 14 people who were ever Aplostles of Christ.

They also know those who those claim to be an Apostle or use the name/tile Apostle really are. 2 Corinthians 11:1-15.
---Rob on 1/21/09

Jesus the Son of God choose "12 Apostles to make them Fishers of MEN"That era is over The purpose is solved: In "My Church" Matt16:13-19.Men have no authority to usurp God."By their fruit You shall know them." Aping God is sinful, and from the statements made Here it would seem All is BOGUS.But men through Satan will continue to decieve and drag people to the Fires of Eternity only If silly man allows him to.
PS where do the proceeds -you know -Cold hard cash go to?.
---Mic on 1/21/09

The New Apostolic Church are Christians indeed- however we are New Apostolic!! So yes, we do fall under the Christian banner but as a whole we are New Apostolic! We are very different to the other denominations! We are the only church who uses the laying hands of an Apostle to Seal, as said in the bible "those who are not sealed through the laying hands of a living Apostle will not enter into the Kingdom of God" Many have disregarded Apostles- However, this is what our Church is based upon
---Jaydeen_Belling on 1/19/09

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#3 to Tracey-Lee: another good one is found in Titus 1:9 "Holding fast the faithfull word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able to both to exhort in sound doctrine and REFUTE those who contradict(emphasis mine). Jude also tells us to EARNESTLY CONTEND for the faith Jude 3(emphasis mine), in fact his whole espistle is dedicated to defending of the truth of Gods word! Now lets take a look at the not judging others issue. Look up 1st Corr 5:12, More in #4 to Tracey-Lee
---Mike on 10/15/07

#4 to Tracey-Lee: When you look up 1stCorr 5:12-13 you see that Paul ask some ?'s. He says first,he won't judge those outside the church,then he asks "Do you not judge those who are within the church?". He finishes with "but those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMOUNG YOURSELVES(emphasis Pauls). So you see we are to root out false teaching! If you claim to be a christian then you are subject to Gods word! May God bless you in your study of his word sincerly, Mike
---Mike on 10/15/07

Tracey-Lee,"beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" These are the words of Jesus and he tells us to "beware", he again mentions it in Matt. 24:11,24. Is he the only one? No! Paul mentions it in 2Corr 5:12, Gal 2:4, Peter talks about it in 2nd Peter 2:1, John in 1st John 4:1 and Jude 1/2 brother of Jesus mentions it in Jude 1:4 So now what are we to do about false teaching? Reply continues in # 2 to Tracey-Lee
---mike on 10/15/07

#2 to Tracey-Lee: here are some verses in Bible that tells us what we should do when we encounter false teaching, 2nd Tim 2:23-26,and one of my favorites 2ndTim 4:1-2 "I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Jesus Christ,who is to judge the living and the dead,and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word, be ready in season and out of season,REPROVE,REBUKE,EXHORT,with great patience and INSTRUCTION"(emphasis mine). More in #3to Tracey-Lee
---Mike on 10/15/07

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I have been reading through these replies and one thing pops to mind...the Christian faith (all denominations that is) are so divided and as a member of the New Apostolic Church - I don't believe in criticising any other religion or denomination.What has become of the world?
---tracey-lee on 10/1/07

Jay, I appalud your belief that the Bible is the only means by which we may know of our relationship with God and his means for our salvation through Jesus Christ. Unfortunatly Credo statements are what a church believes and if they are inconsistent with what the Bible says then we are obligated to correct them (according to the Bible). More in response #2!
---Mike on 9/8/07

Response #2 to Jay! If the CA says things that are contradictory to the Bible, then he to needs to repent! If he refuses then he needs to be put out of the Church in hopes that he may be led to repent. Jay I urge you to pray first, then go back and study all the blogs I wrote to Julie and look up the scripture quotes! I was a member for 40 years untill I asked ?'s and to this day they have not answered, nor have they rewrote their History book as they told me they were going to do!
---Mike on 9/8/07

firstly il like to say that im a nac an proud of it. Firstly the nac aint the only way to eternal life, secondly creeds are not docrine but the bible np matter what the CA says
---jay on 9/7/07

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Elias, I guess everyone has the power then to forgive sins according to Matt 18:15-18 right? You missinterpet the text, only God can forgive sins! We can only say to someone that their sins will be forgiven if they repent or retained if they do not! Whether they truly repent is not known to us but only God!! Therefore he alone can forgive sins!
---mike on 9/4/07

Elias, I guess everyone has the power to forgive sins then according to Matt 18:15-18 right? You are missinterpeting the text! Only God can forgive sins, we can only tell someone that their sins are forgiven if they repent and ask God for forgiveness or that they are retained if they do not. We cannot know if someone truly repents therefore only God can forgive sins because he knows the heart.
---mike on 9/4/07

Read John 20,23: Jesus gives his apostles the order to forgiving sinths
---Elias_Huugel on 8/29/07

Marcia, or Robyn, read Bruce's comments here about why we have different labels for different denominations.
Great answers to your questions.
---WheresBruce on 8/4/07

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I recently left the NAC because of their teachings of UNbiblical doctrine. In a recent service in Osnabrueck Germany their ChAp very specifically stated that only where Apostles are present does forgiveness of sins take place. He added that there is no other way on earth for this to happen and it is Godly order. What rubbish! Sorry Julie, you are being lead down the path of deceit.
---NAC_No_More on 3/5/07

I think I may have confused some of you by not # the first 2 responses to Julie! The first in series starts off by saying "Your CA can talk all .. # 2 starts off with "Julie, here is the NAC'S ..."(which was posted twice?) Sorry about the confusion. I also want to make it known that I care for and love those I left behind in the NAC and that is why I am making the truth known! I sincerly hope that the NAC repents of its teachings and will view the Bible as God's inerrant word!
---mike on 3/4/07

Mike here again,just realized another mistake! Their is no # 4 in the series! guess I got confused in my numbering?
---mike on 3/4/07

Julie, # 12;ask your leaders to answer these ?'s and more importantly reference their response to what the bible has to say! The NAC has told me that I should just have faith and belive their doctrines thats not what the Bible teaches! Look up and read the following texts from the Bible and may the Holy Spirit grant you wisdom to understand.
Rom 12:2, 1st Thes 5:21 Eph 3:4,4:14-15,5:10-17,Acts 17:11,Col 2:8, The rest will be in response #13
---Mike on 3/3/07

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Julie,#13 in series; more scripture quotes,1st John 4:1, 1st Peter 3:15,2nd Peter 1:5-10,1:19-21,3:17-18,Rom 13:9,1st Tim 6:3-5,2nd Tim 2:15-16,4:2-5,and Titus 1:7-9. The NAC also tells me they need not to debate their doctrines, again the Bible says otherwise, Acts 6:9-10, 15:2, 15:7, 17:1-3, 18:4, 18:24-28, 19:8-10, 2nd Cor 4:2, 1st Tim 1:3, 18, 2nd Tim 1:8, 2:2, 24-25, 3:16, 4:2, Titus 1:9, 2:1, and verse 15 and the book of Jude. May the Lord bless your endeavors to seek the truth.
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie, your CA can talk all he wants, the proof of your beliefs is in your creeds.If they no longer believe they are the only way they MUST change their creeds. Please look into the third, fifth and 8th articals of faith in the NAC's creedo statements.
---Michael_Bandowski on 3/3/07

Julie,here is the NAC's 5th artical of faith and the?'s I ask of it. "I believe that all ministers in the Church of Christ are chosen and ordained into their ministries only by Apostles and that all gifts and powers must come forth out of the Apostle ministry; equipped with these, the community becomes a legible letter of Christ. Questions and further evidence will be in sucessive replys!
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie,here is the NAC's 5th artical of faith and the?'s I ask of it. "I believe that all ministers in the Church of Christ are chosen and ordained into their ministries only by Apostles and that all gifts and powers must come forth out of the Apostle ministry; equipped with these, the community becomes a legible letter of Christ. Questions and further evidence will be in sucessive replys!
---Mike on 3/3/07

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Julie part 3; The language used in the fifth creed is stating that only NAC Christians are going to be saved! Note the follwing portions of this Creed; The first one states Church of Christ not just within the NAC Church, the 2nd one states ordained into their ministries only by Apostles, and the 3rd says that all gifts and powers must come forth out of the Apostle ministry. My question was, Why does the NAC condemn all other Christian Pastors, Preachers, teachers and evangelists with this Creed?
---mike on 3/3/07

Julie,#5; further evidence is also backed up by the late District Apostle Kraus in a book titled "Completion Work in The NAC" published in March of 1978. Its contents were ratified by the late Chief Apostle Ernest Streckeisen. I quote from page 11 the 2nd paragraph and page 12 the 1st paragraph. Quote will appear in part six!
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie,reply #6; "During this widowhood of the church, the bearers of a ministry who were left - Bishops, Elders, Evangelists, Priests and Deacons - attempted to guide and teach the members to lead a moral and god fearing life, as it was and still is found among other peoples. However, The forgiveness of sins and the rebirth could no longer be administered; Because the ministry of reconciliation which dispenses the Holy Spirit no longer existed on the earth." More in part 7
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie # 7; It goes on to say that all the people from the end of the first Apostles to the start of the NAC in the mid 18th century (almost 1900 years) were "Christian only in name in that they could not receive the life out of Christ ; because the transmitters of it , the Apostles commissioned by Jesus, were no longer here. No preacher and no minister was empowered to forgive even one sin or to beget one child of God through the rebirth" It goes on to say that... quote found in part 8
---Mike on 3/3/07

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Julie, part 8; "They were only able to speak about the word of God but were not able to speak the word of God; because Jesus gave that commission only to the bearers of the Apostle ministry."
Further proof of their position in this creed can be found in a booklet titled; "Proclamation of Gods Mysteries in the New Apostolic Church". Starting at the top of page 19 we read... this quote will be found in response # 9
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie,#9;"Were someone to appoint himself to be an Apostle and not be ordained into that high and holy ministry through the Chief Apostle,he would not be an ambassador of Christ but merely a morals- and gospel-preacher, who is not able to administer the means of salvation. The sending of the Apostles has been decided by God for our time and for our contemporaries, for those who will receive and accept them". This book was written by the late Michael Kraus, copyrighted 1981. More in response #10
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie, #10; Yet another instance is found in a pamphlet titled, "The Future of the Firstlings" printed in 1990 and indorsed by the former leader of the NAC-Richard Fehr. on page 30 it states "This word of God can only be proclaimed and brought by the New Apostolic Administration Brothers (emphasis added in original quote by bold text to; word of God and NAC administration brothers) to those in whom God awakens this hunger".
Final proof of their position in response #11
---Mike on 3/3/07

Julie, #11; In the NAC's Eighth Article of Faith we find further proof of the position stated in the 5th article of faith where it says "I believe that those baptized with water must through a living Apostle be sealed with the Holy Spirit to receive the right of the firstborn, whereby they are incorporated as members into the body of Christ".Please explain how the above quoted, does not speak to the fact that the only the NAC will be in Heaven? Final thoughts in response # 12
---Mike on 3/3/07

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In the Our Family the CA also said that as a church we have a set of beliefs, but we cannot expect every member to believe every aspect. The church has made mistakes, and is acknowledging that. The CA even stated that women ministers is just a matter of tradition and will probably become reality in the future.
---Julie on 2/18/07

First, the book of questions was pulled because they are revising it. Some of the answers no longer fit with our beliefs. Second, the Chief Apostle recently stated that we ARE NOT the only way to salvation. In the Our Family he said that there is no way to know this.
---Julie on 2/18/07

They believe in Christ, but they are "apostle centered". They don't openly reveal this information to visitors. Victims come to realize this over time . . . after investing their hearts, devotion, time, efforts, and money. Their Ch.Ap. recently stated only through Ap and the NAC can you receive forgiveness and HS. Ministers who wish to continue to serve must accept, but some are sweeping it under the carpet. Former NAC Member.
---Leigh on 1/28/07

*Acts 2:38baptism in Jesus' name also salvation, fully part of belief, repentance, receiving gift the HG with evidence speaking tongues. Plainly what the bible says. I won't tell God he is a liar?
---Antonino_G._Vetrano on 12/28/06*

Antonino, I think you're confusing the "New Apostolic Church" with the OLD new "Apostolic Church" - the Pentecostal demonination founded in 1905. ;)
---augusta on 12/29/06

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Jesus left churchto fullyauthorized representatives. Adheranceto exact Word as written admits TOHIM that HE is omnipotent omniscient omnipresent everlasting. Exact testimony of this is the bible, words that are spirit and life not legalism. Think what it says not what it means and call Him liarand weak. Acts 2:38baptism in Jesus' name also salvation, fully part of belief, repentance, receiving gift the HG with evidence speaking tongues. Plainly what the bible says. I won't tell God he is a liar?
---Antonino_G._Vetrano on 12/28/06

I can testify that they will not answer questions. I came up with 43 questions from a book of theirs titled "The History of the New Apostolic Church". They have not answered even one of my questions! Just try and get a copy of this book... you can't! they have pulled them! I have an email from a Bishop who is now an Apostle that states they are going to rewrite their history book. I left the Church after being a member for 40 years when he sent me that email. To God alone be the Glory!
---Mike on 12/27/06

The part I hate the most about this movement is that it excersizes so much control over thier followers. You not allowed to question or diagree with everything they teach- that means your rebelious. Pschologicall profiles-unbilical, personallity profile-unbiblical, cell groups-unbiblical, Question any of this and you are told your in rebellion and could lose your soul. You have to submit to them even if theyre wrong.All unbiblical
---craige on 12/25/06

I know nothing about the New Apostolic church, but I do know there are only twelve Apostles hand picked by Jesus and have spoken to him face to face, they are the only ones given authority to make the doctrine of the Church, Any one claiming to be an Apostle must be approved of God by signs and wonders and miracles, and they would only speak the words of Jesus and the original Apostles.
---exzucuh on 12/25/06

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The "new" apostolic church is apostate and filled with false doctrine. I'm glad that God finally brought me out. They need to start preaching the cross.
---craige on 12/25/06

Jack :: I agree seems a new one is born every week. Does this mean that the apostles are being born again or reborn apostless Hummmmmm Bugggggggg
---Emcee on 12/13/06

NAC members live in a closed discussion. Little do they resist or question in a constructive manner the basis of their religion. My problem with their belief system is that the only way is through the "living" apostles. Many of the members do not understand the arrogance of this statement. They are following the vision of one individual who "proclaimed" that the apostles have returned. I place my faith in God and I ask for forgiveness for having doubts about the vision of one man.
---Mike_Sweeney on 12/13/06

When talking of the New Apostolic Church first of all we don't worship or idolize our Apostle ministry.we have great respect for them because they are ambassadors of Christ!! The true leader of our church is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!writing can be very misleading and sometimes not clear enough.the easiest way to learn the truth about our beliefs is to email or talk to a minister in the church.
---NAC_youth on 9/11/06

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Donna, then this person was not New Apostolic
---Elizabeth on 8/7/06

Had a long talk with an Apostolic who said I wasn't Christian, as I was baptised "in the name of the Father,the Son and the Holy Ghost".I should be baptised "in the name of Jesus" only.He claims "trinity" is heresy...that Jesus (God), appeared on earth as different people at different times, but never existed in more than one form at a time. The scriptures to refute this, he had other explanations for. I declined rebaptism, which,to him is the unforgivable sin. I say a cult.
---Donna2277 on 8/6/06

I don't have a picture of an Apostle in my home. Have faith and pray for the truth. This blog will not answer your questions, only God will.
---Elizabeth on 8/6/06

Then why do the members have pictures of the "apostles" in there homes but are not allowed a picture of Christ?
---Keleigh on 8/5/06

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The New Apostolic Church hold fast to Christian beliefs and has many of the same beliefs as other churches. They believe in God, that Jesus died us, in Baptism and Holy Communion. Just like many churches the priesthood is a hierarchy. They have living apostles: however, contrary to popular belief and critisism, the NAC memebers don't worship the Apostles. They worship God and Jesus only. They do not worship or pray to saints or people.
---Melissa on 6/17/06

Rule of thumb: If it's apostolic, it's 2000 years old. If it's new, it's not apostolic.
---Jack on 5/28/05

Baptism had nothing to do with being saved. There are several thoughts in the Bible about baptism.
Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
I think Peter was saying that you couldn't be baptized with the Holy Ghost without remission of sins through water baptism.
---Wendell on 5/12/05

Baptism had nothing to do with being saved. There are several thoughts in the Bible about baptism.Matthew 26:28, "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
I think Peter was saying that you couldn't receive bapstism of the Holy Ghost without water baptism.
Mark 1:4, "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."
---Wendell on 5/12/05

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See my post on 5/5/05 where I quote from their articles of faith and other litterature.

In particular the statement that water baptism is a prerequisite to recieving the Holy Ghost.

Here is article 8:

I believe that those baptised with water must receive the Holy Spirit through an apostle, to obtain the childhood in God, whereby they become incorporated as members in the body of Christ.
---Bruce5656 on 5/8/05

Bruce, Is that what the "New" Apostolics do? that is, replace the blood of Jesus and faith in him with baptism? i know that the original Apostolics do not do that. They preach the need to be baptized in Jesus' name because it is written as one of the things "to do" or "duties" for each one that wants to be a faithful follower of him.
---Eloy on 5/8/05

There is a decided difference between emphasising something and elevating it to the place where it replaces the blood of Jesus and faith in His sacrifice.

Paul had Timothy circumcised so he would not be an affront to the Jews that they were trying to reach but he also told the Galatians that if they got circumcised in order to "make sure they were really saved", they would not be saved at all.
---Bruce5656 on 5/7/05

Bruce, i'm not surprised that Apostolics have segragated, just like mainstream Christianity has divided into many different denominations. Some like loud church and some quiet. Yet Jesus and the Scriptures tell us to be baptized, he himself did, so i see nothing wrong with stressing it. And the gift of tongues should be encouraged also, because this gift brings edification. And works is involved in salvation, for faith without works is dead: If you don't humble yourself and confess wrongs and ask the Lord to save you (all interactive 'works' on our end), then there is no salvation.
---Eloy on 5/7/05

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Simply going by the name "Apostolic" doesn't really say much. As with other "names" there can be a wide variety of beliefs. That is why we need to look at the core teachings and salvation message that any particular group puts forth.

I have met people from United Pentecostal Churches that make it very clear that you are most certainly not a Christian if you have not been baptized in water according to their specific formula and have not spoken in tongues, you are NOT a Christian.
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05


I have their SS literature that shows, for example, two illustrations side by side. One called "The Old Way" showing a lamb on an altar and the other showing, not Jesus on a cross, but rather a man being baptized in water and called "The New Way". One of the lessons specifically states that "a man can no more enter the kingdom with out baptism than a Jew could with out circumcision."
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05

I had a discussion with one of the leaders of the local UPC church about just what it is that washes away our sin. When I said it was the blood of Jesus, he literally (and I am not exaggerating) laughed and mocked me for believing such a thing. When I asked him what it was, he replied "The water."

I have had an UPC missionary in my home and after much discussion, she agreed that we could not both be saved. Our beliefs were so different, that either she was or I was but not both.
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05

There were other churches in the area that called themselves Apostolic and they were really hard-line UPC in their theology. Extreme legalism. Some ladies that had moved to our area and started attending our church were to attend a family member's wedding. Their "Apostolic" family asked them if I (their pastor) was going to "let them go to the wedding."
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05

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So you see, "Apostolic" or "Pentecostal" for that matter can mean many things. I based what I said about the "New Apostolic Church" from their own documents.

In our area there is the "Apostolic Church of Christ" - hard-line UPC
And there is the "Apostolic Church of Pentecost" which is trinitarian and orthodox in their statement of faith.
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05

Eloy, there are many types of Apostolic chruches. I was refering to the "New Apostolic Church". Are you?

How can they be Christian and insist that you MUST be baptized to be saved? If your faith is in baptism, it is in something you have done and that is just what the Galations were doing. Paul condemned them and told them if they accepted that teaching they would loose out with God altogether telling them they would - "fall from grace" - "Christ is become of no effect unto you" - "Christ shall profit you nothing". Gal 5
---Bruce5656 on 5/6/05

Bruce, i was a member of an Apostolic church for many years, and i can tell you that they are Christian because Christ is all that they worship, and all that they pray to. They stress baptism because Jesus did also, not as the only grounds for salvation, but to be a part of his salvation. Emphasis mine: "And he said to them: Go you all into all the world and preach the glad tidings to all creatures, he that believes AND IS BAPTIZED, WILL BE SAVED: but he that believes not, will be damned." Mark 16:15,16.
---Eloy on 5/6/05

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