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We Should Have Pity On Judas

Someone told me that we should pity Judas the traitor of Jesus who went and hung himself, because he was only following predestined prophecy and could not prevent himself. This sounds like predestination overrides freewill or freedom of choice. Any thoughts?

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 ---Eloy on 5/10/05
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Judas was just like you and me, he had a free will. He willingly betray Jesus for money. If you get a group of people together today and offer money for betrayal, you would get plenty of takers. Had it not been Judas, it would have been another.
---shira_5965 on 7/16/07

As we should pity all unbelievers. It is sad to see their eventual condemnation. My heart is now heavy when any of those who were judged at the white throne and then pointing at one of us as believers that had failed to tell him the good news of salvation. That will be the greater person to be pitied if it happened to be me.
---pek on 5/15/05

There does seem be many things that God has written in the Bible to teach us. Reading and understanding them is helpful. But God did what He did. God allowed what He allowed. God stopped what He stopped.
In the end, God is the same as He was in the beginning. In short who can explain God but God Himself. So we learn FAITH and GRACE. We are saved and live by faith and grace. And just keep letting God be God. Incredible. There really are somethings that mankind cannot explain.
---Barbara67 on 5/13/05

Thank you all for your excellent responses. i do have another thought about this. Scripture says that God hardened Pharoah's heart, so God could show his miracles of 10 plagues. Now could Pharoah have also chosen instead to soften his heart and let the Hebrews go?
---Eloy on 5/13/05

Brother Eloy, I know you mean well in the question and I wanted to answer you in the best way I could. It seems that Sister Barbara is offend with me in answering things. I know that many are learning as we go as Christians and like others I too have questions on scripture. I work hard in trying to learn the truth. Curt and Bruce and others have been so kind to answer. I will try to answer someone's else's question on another blog. thank you brother Eloy.
---Lupe2618 on 5/12/05

Yes, foretold because it is foreknown. There are things that God will do that are foretold because they are planned. Any human involvment in His plan is foreknown. I don't think we can find any place in scripture where God made somebody comply.

However, while He may not have made them comply as such, He certainly has pursuaded people to be willing to do what He wants. Ex 4:24, 23:28 are two examples that come to mind.
---Bruce5656 on 5/12/05

To Lupe - let's post a how to be saved through faith in Jesus Christ blog. It could explain that we are created with a purpose. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.(our original purpose). We need the filling of the Holy Spirit and to love Jesus as Saviour and Lord and to serve the Heavenly Father. We have no desire to be Judas - who seemed self serving. Thank you for sending Jesus to die in our place at Calvary. Thank you for all your Love, In Jesus name and for his sake, Amen
---Barbara67 on 5/12/05

Elder, Bruce, Lupe: So basically you're all saying that scriptural prophecy is not planned by God, but only a foretelling by God? Because it's difficult for me to see how one can have any freewill, when they are predestined to act as prescribed- so Judas was truly free not to betray Jesus, inspite of the scriptural prophecy?
---Eloy on 5/12/05

second part. Judas and his accomplices were left to fulfill their purpose, and they did as their wicked inclinations prompted them. Peter charged them with the crime, but he at the same time declared that they had acted according to the purpose of God- "Him being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hands of lawless men did crucify and slay, Acts (2:23.
---Lupe on 5/11/05

He went out and wept bitterly. In these last two incidents we can see that Judas did everything out of his own free will and yet fulfilled the decree of God concerning Jesus. Also peter, he too did what was in his heart and yet fulfilled what Jesus had told him was going to happen. No one took their free will away, are they wouldn't be responsible. Thank you Eloy.
---Lupe on 5/11/05

The casting of lots by the Romans, Peter's denials of Jesus, etc. It is plain that the writers of Scripture believed these free acts to be fully foreknown by the Divine Mind and therefore absolutely certain to be accomplished. The foreknowledge of God did not destroy the freedom of Judas and Peter-at least they themselves did not think so for Judas later came back and said, "I have sinned in that I have betrayed innocent blood; and then peter heard the cock crow and remembered the words of Jesus,
---Lupe2618 on 5/11/05

Bruce, thank you too for your answer. That was what I had written in an article. Eloy, I will put my two cents in this answer. it will be in two parts. The Scriptures contain predictions of many events, great and small, which were perfectly fulfilled through the actions of free man with a free will. Usually these man were not even aware that they were fulfilling divine prophecy. They acted freely, and yet they were foretold. The rejection of Jesus by the Jews, the parting of Jesus garments,
---Lupe2618 on 5/11/05

I think that any confusion is cleared up when we understand the distinction between foreknowledge and predestination. They are not the same. Simply put, Judas COULD HAVE chosen differently. God KNEW he WOULD NOT.

That is not at all the same as God causing him to.
---Bruce5656 on 5/11/05

Thank you Eloy for what you said and for looking some scriptures up. I do this so others can look things up not to upset them. I apologize to everyone for how it turn out. I worry how others think about scripture so I put in my two cents. I always wonder why we are so proud to admit that the glory goes to God and not to man. So I try to make others check scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 5/11/05

i believe in freewill, yet the Scripture reads as though Jesus told Judas to betray him: "And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus to him, That you do, do quickly." John 13:27. And the O.T. reads that the feet of the wicked are quick to shed innocent blood.
---Eloy on 5/11/05

Debating issues such as the doctrine of election can lead to separation between the believers. What the Lord wants to do, He will do to bring ultimate glory to Himself. No one can improve on the crucifixion events. What IS important is that Jesus gave His all for us. Our Lord is never surprised by anything we do. Scriptures says God forms us and knows us before we are placed in the womb.
---Elsie on 5/11/05

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i'm still sorting this out: Jesus said Scripture cannot be broken. Genesis foreshadowed that Judas would be the traitor- Genesis 37:26,27; Zechariah prophesied the bribe- Zechariah 11:12,13; and David prophesied who it would be and his fate- Psalm 41:9; 55:12-14,21-23. So if it was prescribed thousands of years ago beforehand, then how could Judas not fulfill the prophecy? If he refused the temptation, how could the Scripture be fulfilled?
---Eloy on 5/11/05

Thank you Barbera for your response. Now I know how some Christians really feel in their hearts. No other words could hit home like those. Your brother Lupe
---Lupe on 5/10/05

Barbera, the point of grace is so critical to all Christians. Every word of God should be important to all Christians. If you are wrong how will you ever know unless you find out through God's word? That is why doctrines of the church are so important to know. If someone was lost, wouldn't you want to help? I am sorry no one is willing to ask questions. Thank you brothers and sisters.
---Lupe on 5/10/05

I don't think prophesy equals predestination. I think prophesy means God knows the future because He is already there. He knew Judas before Judas was even formed, all of his days were numbered before he was even born. I think we make things a little too complicated sometimes.
---Julie on 5/10/05

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God wrote the Bible. The story and the personality of Judas is included. Other Old and New Testament people are real. They are included as examples to us. The more we study all the personalities, the more we understand God. If free will and election and predestination concern us at all, it is only from the point of view that we do or don't want to be a Judas. What scares me more than anything, is that there is a Judas in the Bible. Let's all ask God to help us to love without hypocrisy.
---Barbara on 5/10/05

Elsie, God found the doctrine of Election so important that He put it is Scripture. Before anyone tears it down, they need to look at Him and His Character. Check His Attributes. We don't live by chance or fate. " In Him we live, and move and have our being," Acts 17:28. "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure (Isa,46:10). "It is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for His good pleasure."Phil.2:13
---Lupe2618 on 5/10/05

i feel a bit of both ways. in the martin scorsese movie called, The Last Temptation of Christ, it imagines that Judas only did what Christ Himself asked him to do, even though he did not want to. then again, God has given man the freedom to choose (free will). so until we get to Heaven, i believe we will not truly know the answer to this, and much, much more.
---jeremy on 5/10/05

Dear Eloy: This question will give the Calvinists a thrill, won't it? If Judas had not done his evil deed, would there have been another "Judas" just waiting in the wings to do the same? It appears satan has no difficulty finding people to do evil. I believe God permits things to happen to bring His ultimate glory! He's in charge; not satan. "He (God) giveth and He taketh away", says the Word! The evil one is the ultimate trouble maker though!
---Elsie on 5/10/05

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Foreknowledge and predestination are two different things. Because God knows an event before it occurs does not mean that it was predetermined to happen.

Judas threw the money back but we don't see him humbling himself and asking forgiveness.

He could have been in heaven though. God's Grace can reach that far. But, we don't see him repenting.
---Elder on 5/10/05

I don't think it had to be Judas, his own choices made it so. Joshua 24:15-CHOOSE FOR YOURSELVES Whom you will serve. **Judas chose wrongly. Matthew 6:24 -You cannot serve both God and Money. **Judas tried. Matt.16:24 -deny himself and take up his cross. **Judas took up his purse instead.
My God isn't a puppet-master. Great question Eloy. Thanks
---CarolT on 5/10/05

It was Judas free will that decided his fate.He was greedy for $$ and even though he ate,heard and saw the miracles of Jesus;he preferred to blind his eyes with the 30 pieces of silver. I think we should pity instead those who are betraying Jesus today. Who place fornication and greed above the sacrifice Jesus did for them. Who knowing Jesus, refuse to obey Him and trample underfoot His Precious BLood.
---Eloia8896 on 5/10/05

I know others would like to ask questions too and I will do my best to answer others. I know most of the church in this times believe in the five articles of Faith of Arminianism. Election is a doctrine of the church. I don't know which reformer said to feel pity for Judas. we don't. I stand with Martin Luther
---Lupe2618 on 5/10/05

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Eloy is this an invitation for questions on Predestination? How you worded your question seems as though you have another intention in mind. I am not an expert in Election but will do my best to answer a Scripture or verse in response to Predestination. I belong to Bethany Baptist Church, a Reform church teaching God's Sovereignty. I do believe that Scripture interprets Scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 5/10/05

James 1:13-15, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
---Bruce5656 on 5/10/05

I personally think that once we have become Chistians we are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, (Romans 8:29) but I don't think we are predestined to become Christians or do anything in particular. If we are we must accept that others are predestined to go to hell. However, when God sees us taking wrong turns He gently tries to steer us in the correct way - but we can still say 'no'.
---Xanthi on 5/10/05

I think Judas was blinded by money and did his deed of his own accord-no predestination.

Further, I believe that his trying to give the money back and was half crazed over what he had done lead him to hang himself. I think he repented. IMHO
---NVBarbara on 5/10/05

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What I dont understand is ,what if Judus did'nt betray Jesus?Could the scriptures still have been fulfilled and by who?
---Lucy on 5/10/05

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