You are never confined to a particular church. No matter your position or relationships in a church you can always walk away. You are not the reason why a church stays together.
---Scott1 on 10/17/11|
forgive and pray for the pastor and his family, do not judge nor condem least ye be judged and condemned -forgive
---pearl on 10/16/11|
people make mistakes however majority of "pastors" today are self-appointed and drunk on their perceived power ...lots of people "think they are the greatest" is enough for many to loose their first love if they even ever had it
Christ told His true believers to come out of this world and do not take part in her sins
a TRUE servant of GOD is not living for the world and its ways ...a TRUE servant follows Christ and EVERY Word of GOD
Christ said MANY would come in His name to DECEIVE
if your position is to stay you will eventually be deceived too
---Rhonda on 10/15/11|
One thing Cathy said was his children's "partners" come to the house. Unless she is a legal eyewitness, she can't legally say they are doing what is immoral, at the house or elsewhere.
But, in case the pastor is wrong, even a whole church of Christians can fail to see this, all together, if they are unified. It can be like how in Revelation Jesus has pretty much the same things to say to each church > they are all wrong together, or are right together. So, yes, a whole church can be wrong, if they are unified, and need correction together.
---Bill_willa6989 on 10/14/11|
Pastors are not perfect of course, but for me, based on the Bible, when I become part of a congregation, I want to be able to submit to the authority of my Pastor, respecting him as I would my father and Spiritual overseer. This doesnt happen overnight, but it has been very important for me. If you dont feel you can submit to his leadership for whatever reason, then move. I take my Pastors words and insights vary seriously, he is a straight shooter, and doesnt pull any punches, but his heart is as big as a Mt, and he loves God more than he loves me, while I love God more than I love him, I take his authority/role vary seriously. In His grip
---Poppa_Bear on 10/14/11|
Cathy: From the discussions here, could you list what particular things the pastor does you class as worldly.
Even here there are differences as to what people call wordly, so it's best that we know before we discuss this
Thanks, and God bless you
---Peter on 10/14/11|
you are right to question this. Many Christians try to christianize eastern practices and you cannot christianize something that is opposite of what the bible teaches. I came to this blog for the same reason, a potential church we were considering has a pastor who told us he was taking a martial arts class but not to tell anyone, the day before he told us he was not going to change service because of the super bowl but then said he was going to change it. Worldly? Yep. We have decided not to attend this church because there are several things that we feel are unscriptural. We WILL NOT sit under a pastor that could lead his flock astray so we are looking else where. Discernment is extremely important in the world we live in today.
---tammy on 10/11/11|
first of all, what do you call worldly? B/c they dance unto the Lord, David did. I believe that God is calling a generation to give him bold and passionate praise. A lot of times when we reply we only take in the person's question. But are they not locked to tradition? That's a good thing.
---Senya on 5/28/08|
Have faith that God's will be done.
---Cross-Bearer on 5/28/08|
Realize that Satan's plan is to infiltrate our churches and spread false doctrines under the guise of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 11:14
14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Regardless of if your pastor is good or not, listen only to God and his Word. Accept your salvation by Grace through Faith, and then obey God 100% and place your life on his altar as a living sacrifice.
---rob on 5/28/08|
With God all things are possible. We must try the spirits by the spirits, knowing to do better and not doing it we'll be held accoutable. Putting our trust in God and not man makes the difference in all situations. Never cease in praying because the prayers of the righteous availeth much. Be blessed and you will be in my prayers. He who the son sets free is free indeeed. Amen
---Shara_6498 on 1/3/08|
Perry, it was a simple question. First off, I doubt the pastor is using "magic" but is simply performing tricks. It takes a lot of skill to be an illusionist. It can also be very entertaining. Oh wait... we aren't supposed to be entertained!!
The point is, the OP - along with a number of others here - is judging on her pastor and his wife. I wonder how big the beam in her eye is...
---NurseRobert on 5/21/07|
NurseRobert, it is fine to practice a martial art as long as it does not contain any mysticism stuff and spiritualsm. The same goes for being a stage magician(they don't do real magic...). Don't listen to others who say it is evil. It is fine.
---Matthew on 5/20/07|
haha nice assumption perry...i dunno if thats where the nurse's heart is at...
I dont see that magic/illusion as wordly b/c i jsut see them as magic tricks whats wrong w/ wanting to do magic tricks their sweet...its like learning an instrument or learning to skateboard or something...its sweet...and all can be used to glorify God
---mark_B. on 5/20/07|
These type leaders and pastos has done untold damage to persons in the past. How much more do they have to show us before we will sit up and take notice.I am holding onto my pocketbook and stay on my knees. Will also stay in the Word. Watch, fight and pray. I left church for many yrs due to this type behavior. I now know better. I will stay focus but use wisdom and knowledge that God has given me. Love all.
---Robyn on 5/20/07|
Nurse Robert, you like controversy.
If you don't know how magic/illusion is worldly, then anything goes for you, I guess.
---Perry on 5/20/07|
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I would say that most likely the person is wanting to work out/ get in shape through matrial arts...which would probably really fun and wayy much more fun than working out at a gym which also costs money
---mark_B. on 5/20/07|
jesus is the author and finisher of our faith we are to look to jesus we have not chosen them you pray for them until god answer
---evelyn_everts on 5/20/07|
Hi, NurseRobert > my thing about martial arts > Jesus says the one who lives by the sword shall die by the sword > I think martial arts can be a "sword" sort of thing, of FORCE instead of trusting God's control and protection.
Also, it is supposed to be for discipline > it can be SELF-imposed, and can cost money for sessions, while God's true discipline is in His Spirit and is free > "Freely you have received, freely give." (in Matthew 10:8)
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/20/07|
1 Timothy 3:1-10 clearly shows us who is qualified to be a pastor.
And Peter commands leaders, "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
So, leaders are to be obviously good "examples"; and we HAVE to evaluate if a leader's example is good or not, so we know whether or not to follow that leader's example. So, we DO have to judge > "Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
---Bill_bila5659 on 5/20/07|
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Cathy, perhaps you can explain how "magic/illusion" and martial arts are worldly..
---NurseRobert on 5/19/07|
**No one see this and thinks they are the greatest.**
Did it ever occur to you that maybe others see things in them that YOU do not?
That maybe YOUR viewpoint and evaluation are wrong?
---Jack on 5/19/07|
You need to be praying as well. After that, start looking around for another church home ,if things have gotten that bad. What is preventing you from going elsewhere? Worldly pastors and leaders do not mind fleecing(stealing from) their congregants and other anti christ behavior. I know pastors/leaders are not perfect also but to openly flaunt unchristian behavior in the congregants faces is too disrespectful. I would pray for change first. But in reasonable time, if no change, I would leave.
---Robyn on 5/19/07|
We have as much authority as our pastors and leaders have. God has not placed these people in our lives to lead us anywhere they please. We need to understand authority more clearly. The boundaries and so forth. We will be responsible for our own souls in the end. We should have a covering(pastor) but He/she needs to be godly and have christian values. If I do not observe this with my pastor and leaders. I can and will move my membership.
---Robyn on 5/19/07|
READ,READ,READ,STUDY,STUDY,STUDY the word of God!These two know it and will use it and the congrigation against you!Don't let them.Carry this to Jesus as he knows you are weary and heavily ladened.Throw yourslf into the work of the church and the study of the word and watch the power flow.They will fear you!Then God will give you an answer.Pray without ceasing, Ray
---Ray on 5/19/07|
Friends, leave God's servants alone..it is not our job to judge them but God alone. No doubt we all sin too so mind your own salvation and make sure u r right with God instead..Lets pray for all of God's servants for the great job they are doing for us int he community n everywhere..it is not an easy job. Spare a thought for them please and help out if you can..I do.....
---jana on 5/17/07|
It does not matter what man sees as God sees all. Though it may not look like God is moving at this time..trust me HE is! Stay in the word...know the word for yourself and God will deliver. How do I know? He delivered me from the same situation and God opened the eyes of all and the truth was made manifest. I will continue to pray for you and your church family that His will be done and that no soul be lost. God Bless You!!!
---kat on 5/10/07|
Kathy, the only thing I see here that COULD be out of line is if the pastor is allowing his kids to commit adultery in his home. How can you know that for sure? Pray for your pastors, and see if they walk the talk.
Jack, Gladys Kravitz?
That's funny, you must be as old as I am to remember that! barba7434
---NVBarbara on 6/5/05|
Inasmuch as God never informed me that He had appointed you the arbiter of who is spiritual and who isn't, I can only surmise that this is not your job.
Gladys Kravitz was the butt of her own absurd snooping on BEWITCHED--but she would cause tragedy in a parish church.
---Jack on 6/1/05|
I was trying to avoid being specific, but, our new pastor likes magic/illusion, his wife the martial arts. They allow their children to bring in partners and live in the parsonage. I'm stopping right here. I know I'm being judgemental. How about those of you who just judged me?
---Cathy_Y on 6/1/05|
And just what makes you think that how you see them is in fact how God Himself sees them?
Has He given you X-ray vision into other people's hearts and consciences and souls?
Let's all pray for Cathy_Y, as I shall do, that God will deliver her from judging others.
---Jack on 5/31/05|
Just because someone has the title of Pastor does not mean that they are walking with God, I am amazed some people have assumed that what Cathy sees is not true in these end times! I have seen MANY Pastors like this, with flash cars, no time for their flock, selfishness. Be assured and rest in the knowing Cathy that God knows their hearts and they stand accountable to him, but if you are sitting under unsound teaching then pray what to do. Why can't you go elsewhere if I may ask?
---Maxine on 5/31/05|
Define wordly...what specifically does this mean? The bible talks about gently restoring one another and also confronting the person (lovingly).
The previous dea of praying for the pastor is excellent.
---Bill_&_Linda on 5/14/05|
Check the message he's teaching, does it align with scripture? 1 Timothy outlines a leader's role. Be like a Berean. If the Pastor is not teaching sound doctrine...run! If he is behaving worldly, but is teaching sound doctrine pray for him, he may be going through something you cannot see. We are to strengthen one another. Have you been praying for your Pastor? He has a very big responsibility.
---cdeziner on 5/13/05|
Kathy, I think if no one else see it, and you are the only one, then you should look inside yourself and give it to God, as your "concern for their worldliness" could be nothing more then envy of what freedom you don't have in your own life and simple envy of their lives. Surely if they were guilty, others would see it unless of course you are a fly on their wall at home.
---lisa on 5/13/05|
I sometimes think that my church leaders do some things that I feel are a little too worldly. I try to remember that Jesus told the disciples not to worry about what other followers are doing when he said "what's it to you? You follow me". Some things are more of a problem for some people than others. Since I don't know their hearts, I try to remember that God is their judge and I am not. I just obey what he is telling me to do and and leave the other children for the Father to deal with.
---Julie on 5/13/05|
I really think you should not judge them as it says in the Word"Judge not lest ye be judged" Also maybe they are going to secular places to speak to people about Jesus. You should just get on with your life and if they are doing wrong in God's eyes He will deal with them. Keep on praying and God will answer in His time. Take care and God bless you
Love in His Name Sheena
---Sheena on 5/13/05|
Tragically your Pastor and his wife are not the only ones that are Worldly Pastors. Pray and Pray and Pray for them and evaluate why you cannot go elsewhere. I was in a Book Study one time and one chapter was entitled "What is the glue?" Just what is holding you in that Church. Is it more Important than Christ? Shortly after that Book Study I left the Church I attended and went to a Christ Centered Church. I heard that several years later that Pastor did accept Christ.
---June on 5/13/05|
Shira, it is no good to preach one thing and practice another but in this case, she has nowhere else to go so might as well pick whatever is good and discard the silliness of pastor and wife.
It's imperative we don't get scanadalized by the behavior of anyone including a pastor.
---Albert on 5/13/05|
Cathy -it is so hard to seperate the message from the messenger. That is sad when you have lost respect for the messenger. Hypocracy is the work of the devil and separates many from the Lord. Remember though--If someone stands between you and Jesus - they are closer to Him than you are. Suggest you pray for them and let God do the judging on their actions or lack of action.
---chuck on 5/13/05|
Am praying for revival. Revival in both congregations and pastor's families can result in overwhelming miracles, deliverance, healing, conversions, prayer and Bible study and in short the church can become a church and not a social group.
PS - There are ministry teams that do nothing but pray for revival. Sutera twins ministry is one name that comes to mind. It is built on an old Prairie revival.
Take care, God bless.
---barbara67 on 5/13/05|
Not all people are annointed for the position they hold in church,and not all who claim to be saved are.Are their moral values lacking by the Word of God,by the tradition of a denomination,or your personal value system.Bible;give honor to whom honor is due.Evil leaders ask for contempt.Remember openmindness and worldliness aren't the same thing.Worldly is living as all sinners do.
---Darlene_1 on 5/13/05|
Albert, it does no good to preach one thing and live another. My My, what a bad testimony and a pastor of non credibility.
---shira_5965 on 5/13/05|
Surely. Papa, we ask you to save Cathy's Pastor and his wife. Show them that to be a friend of the world makes them your enemy. That parishoners are looking up to them for right guidance, and that they need to forsake the world and the worldliness and instead choose you and your holiness. We pray here together in the precious Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus. Amen.
---Eloy on 5/13/05|
Christian Greetings to you Cathy.
It's sad to know that you've judged your pastor and his wife. Please check your heart. If they are your pastors, you owe them some respect. Whatever might be their life style, they're solely acountable for it to God alone. Please don't touch God's anointed like what David did to King Saul.
God loves you and so do I.
---Paulina on 5/13/05|
Cathy, concentrate on what he preaches and not on what he or they do.
Live your life the Christian way hopefully you'll be a good example for them.
---Albert on 5/13/05|
Cathy. I would like to know in which ways you think they are worldly?...and then why nobody else sees it?
---Jan on 5/13/05|
With due respect, how can a whole church see the opposite of what you see? This is impossible!
Have you followed the B principle whereas you are to visit with your pastor, accompanied by an Elder, and LOVINGLY express to him your concern. If you have not, do it today and check your eyes, you may have a beam obstructing your vision!
---Pierr7958 on 5/12/05|
Sure we will pray for God to correct or remove the guilty party or parties involved in this sin.
We will be also praying that He will reveal them so others may learn not to act in a sinful manner.
---Elder on 5/12/05|
Cathy, pray and ask God to release you from there. Sometimes God has already released us and we just stay in a place out of guilt. Please pray and listen to God speak to you!! Also, if you are there it maybe for a reason
---Sherrie on 5/12/05|