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Other People Than Adam And Eve

I would like to hear some opinions on how civilization, beyond Adam and Eve, transpired. The Bible only states that Adam and Eve had two sons. Genesis 12:17 states that Cain knew his wife--. Where did his wife come from? Do you think that God created more people after Adam and Eve?

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Genesis. Cain killed Abel. The Bible doesn't say that Abel had offspring. 5:4 says that Adam "begot sons and daughters". If not referring to grandchildren, etc., then Adam had at least - three sons and two daughters. The two lines of men mentioned are through Cain, 4:17 and Seth, 5:6. 6:2,4 says that the sons (human) of God had children with the ungodly daughters of men. It wasn't proper for the men to do so, (1Corinthians 7:15, 2Corinthians 6:14-18).

The probabilities are that one of them married a sister, and that his brother married a widowed sister, another sister, or a niece, grand niece, etc. It's improbable that God produced wives for them in the same way Eve was produced, 2:21. See Genesis 2:2-3.

-Glenn
---Glenn on 4/9/09


Warwick I apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry, I have been on vacation for the past couple of weeks.

"Please explain! Is this comment in relation to something I wrote to you?" Yes, this.

"I believe your error stems from your belief in the non-Biblical, discredited 'Gap Theory.' " ---Warwick on 2/23/09

Actually I have only heard of this "theory" recently, and that theory has nothing to do with what you refer to as my error. I was simply stating that if I am in error, the error is my own. No offense towards you was intended in the response, simply a clarification.
---joseph on 3/19/09


Joseph you wrote 'P.S. Warwick, I do not parrot another man's beliefs, I willingly take full responsibility for the beliefs I embrace and share.'

Please explain! Is this comment in relation to something I wrote to you?

Joseph we are all falible however His word isn't, and we are called to study it and to defend it. There are some here who hold and promote views which do not come from Scripture and are in fact contradicted by Scripture. I believe they should be opposed.
---Warwick on 3/6/09


Thank you Warwick for the exchange and thank you Mods for allowing the complete exchange of thoughts. That allowance has allowed those interested in the exchange an opportunity to consider both views, search scripture, and to determine for themselves which, if either, to embrace or dismiss. Warwick has presented his views well, and very well may be correct in his understanding. I acknowledge that I am fallible, my understanding finite, and I can only speak from the understanding I have been given. I voice that understanding, and if anyone considers me in error, I appreciate any attempt at correction.
P.S. Warwick, I do not parrot another man's beliefs, I willingly take full responsibility for the beliefs I embrace and share.
---joseph on 3/5/09


Back to Erets,land and ground in reference to the Hebrew.
Thank you again for all your responses.
This will further help in my studies.
Although it may take sometime,I will understand this.
God's Peace to you.
---char on 3/4/09

As well to you. May GOD hedge you with Angels on your journeys.

I personally appreciate your use of scripture as do any who refer to scripture for understanding. Scripture makes your points much more as we are traveling along with you. Apply erets as land, country and the writer of the words side becomes apparent. Universalist must have a worldwide flood to all exclusion of any other facts as you have noticed. Truth cannot be obscured very long for the seeker of it....ever.
---Trav on 3/5/09




Back to Erets,land and ground in reference to the Hebrew.

Thank you again for all your responses.
This will further help in my studies.
Although it may take sometime,I will understand this.

I truly believe there are agreements between you guys,
even though there are also differences.

With that being said,
God has Bless My family and I with Horses and we will be moving deep in country with them.
I have kept my desk and computer for packing last.
Internet access is questionable for sometime.I have printed out these blogs and will use them for learning more.
I truly see deep rooted knowledge in you quys and appreciate all your feed back.
Trav,Joesph,Warwick,Laurie and Kathr....

God's Peace to you.
---char on 3/4/09


Char,no sarcasm intended.

You write in the most obscure way, when most others here quote Scripture, then expound upon this Scripture in sentences, to explain their point.

I am sure you can do likewise!

You answered 'IF a catastrophic occurred before Gen1:2 then Fossil would Remain from this timeframe.
IF....
IF there wasn't, then the Fossil remains would be from Noah's Flood.'

Thanks for the answer.

As there is no other world-wide catastrophe mentioned in Scripture surely the fossil record (a record of death, disease and misery), is the result of Noah's flood?

Especially as Scripture says no death, disease and misery predates Adam's sin. If there was then the NT gospel is wrong!
---Warwick on 3/4/09


kathr,
As stated many,times.

These are STUDIES OF TEACHINGS.

REPEATING...
I BELIEVE God ALONE knows ALL TRUTH.

Job38(all)
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?...etc
1Cor2(all)...
HIS SPIRIT guides us into all truth comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual things....etc

Not only is this What I am saying,it's what I have said and what I will always really want to say.
Geographical Flood-ONE OF THE STUDIES AS INDICATED.If you are accusing me of calling God a liar,QUICKLY I forgive you and Refer you Back to all my Blgs.
I am not aware, nor stated any studies or teaching that indicate another Flood God would use to destroy the whole earth again.
God's Peace to you.
---char on 3/4/09


***Char you wrote 'Peter is not referring to Noah's Flood. 1.This flood was worldwide and catastrophic and the world perished,leaving no one or thing untouched.In Noah's Flood,seven people,animals were kept.***

That is correct. AND we must also keep in mind God made a Covenant with Noah that he would NEVER destroy the whole earth again with a flood. God does not go around making silly covenants. AND when God makes a Covenant it is His word. God cannot lie.

Now if you really want to say it was only geographical...then God lied or you are calling God a LIAR! We have seen many horrible floods through out history.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/09


Patience...a virture.

Warwick,
Your post appears sarcastic.
Being we are children in Christ,this may not be the case,and the enemy is tempting to work with my flesh.
Forgive me if it's a false accursation.

If not...I quickly forgive you even if not asked.
The devil has no place here.

Taking the responsibility for you not understanding my statements,I will re-word them.

When do you think the fossil record was laid down?
As stated:
IF....
IF a catastrophic occurred before Gen1:2 then Fossil would Remain from this timeframe.
IF....
IF there wasn't, then the Fossil remains would be from Noah's Flood.

My position as student.
Phil2:1-11...IF...
Prov 1:7
God's Peace.
---char on 3/4/09




Char I asked a straight-forward question can I please have a straight forward answer, in a sentence/s?

I am sure you can write sentence in English.
---Warwick on 3/3/09


No, God never created another human after Adam and Eve. You will find the answer to the famous "Cain's wife" question in Genesis 5:3f.

"And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image, and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:"

The wife of Cain was either his sister or among the line of his nieces.
---Garry on 3/3/09


My position as a student studing,a child seeking.
I have no definitive position as teacher.
I believe if I ask,I will find and I will continue to knock,and may also be corrected.Mt7:7-8,Rev3:19-22
Please note observations of Teachings.

Words defined by context:
IF-Gen1:1 is defined as a complete,definitive statement,the context into Gen1:2 could be referring a major change occurred...hence the translation "was" as"became".
Is 45:18 state the world WAS NOT created empty,in vain.
2 Pet 3:5-6 "The World That Then Was"... all Fossils remain.Records of Extinct Beast(Dinosaurs age? no reference to Noah.).
Gen 1:2 the ruin it fell into.
Gen1:9... Let the dryland(already there) appear...Cont'
---char on 3/3/09


IF-
Gen1:1 is a beginning Summary to the rest of Creation and the mass was "without form and void"(empty),unformed without life.
This would be describing the condition of the earth after the initial act of Creation.
Being created out of Nothing.
Indication ("Hayetah" was) vs. ("Hayah"became).

2Peter 3:5-7 in reference to Noah's Flood,then all fossils would remain from this event,indicating the beast could/would also refer to Dinosaur era(puzzle piece?).
I'll indicate my understanding:God is God,alone knows all truth.
Greatest lesson being, appreciating with love, one another In-Christ as we follow the Holy Spirit.Trust He is teaching us in OUR DUE season as he knows us best.
God's Peace.
---char on 3/3/09


Cont'
References to agreements between you,
Erets:
Joesph-"when the word'erets'is translated it references the whole of the global terrane as opposed to a part'
Warwick-"Surley erets here can only mean the planet"(Gen1:1)

Words meaning:
Warwick-"char words can have different meanings,their specific meaning defined by context.
Trav-...word,context

Fossils:
I can't speak for everyone...but we may agree that the Fossils are out there...
Warwick-When do you think this fossil record was laid down?
Trav-Fossil record also witness....

I think there's an agreement a catastrophic event took place,whether it be one or two is in difference.Eitherway...fossils would remain.
Cont'
---char on 3/3/09


A Beautiful thing about one Fruit of the Spirit,
Patience is a virtue...no need to rush.

Greetings,
Thank you all for your reply.
Moving forward please note:
Phil2:1-11
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ,if any comfort of love,if any Fellowship of the Spirit if any bowels and mercies,fulfil ye my joy,that ye be LIKEMINDED having the SAME LOVE,OF ONE ACCORD,OF ONE MIND.LET NOTHING BE DONE THROUGH STRIFE OR VAINGLORY,but in lowiness of mind let each ESTEEM OTHERS BETTER than THEMSELVES...etc...
Prov1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge...

Aware of the difference in beliefs,I trust the Holy Spirit IN DUE SEASON,defines truth.

There are some agreements here...
Cont'...
---char on 3/3/09


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Kathr Romans 8 says the creation(all there is) was subjected... Because of Adams sin the curse came upon us but within ourselves we know this is not the way it was originally, not the way it was meant to be. We do groan because of the man-made mess we are wallowing in and do look forward to the coming of Christ when all things will be restored. That is restored to the perfection of the beginning.

However the point I made to Joseph was that Jesus said man was made at the beginning of the creation, that in which we live. The same creation as referred to in Romans 8.
---Warwick on 3/2/09


Char I wrote,

'The thick world-wide fossil bearing sedimentary rocks contain representatives of the same humans and animals we see today-some now extinct. This I believe is overwhelming evidence this is the result of Noah's flood.'

'A question when do you think this fossil record was laid down?'

How about an answer?
---Warwick on 3/2/09


Char words can have different meanings, their specific meaning defined by context.
In English we use 'earth' to mean a particular portion of the planet, or soil in general, or the whole planet. I think erets is the same.
Surely erets here can only mean the planet. Other meanings make no sense.
---Warwick on 2/27/09
Planet as we know it. Land,country,ground as they would have known it.

By your own words,context and the several hundred times it is used as "land", "country" and "ground" leaves open to interpretation the flood.

Fossil record also witness, as it does not show a uniform layer laid at one time across the entire, ROUND globe as we know it.
---Trav on 3/2/09


In Gen 1:1, that is, after the first earth age was destroyed and so Gen 1:2 is speaking of the Word and regenerating/restoring the earth and then on the 6th day creation of the races on the 7th day YHVH rested from all His works, and on the 8th day creation of Adam man. Back to Cain and Abel Cain actually went out into cities.....so there were already cities.....I believe that the garden was a place YHWH started from with a perfectly created man in His Own Image and Likeness and a Spiritual being, fully equipped, and Adam was to take dominion, replenish.....think of what replenish means......to make plenty again/restore in other words.....to bring the Kingdom into the earth......


---Rita on 3/2/09


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Joseph considerable Biblical research by me and others much more knowledgeable, has shown that when Jesus talks of 'the creation' He is referring to the same thing as when Scripture says the whole creation (i.e. all that was created) groans in bondage to sin and decay-Rom 8:22

Warwick, read all of Romans 8, it's the NEW CREATION that's groaning, just as we are, waiting for Jesus Christ.

I believe Creation is referring to the New creation.

Paul said in Galatians, nothing matters. circumcision, uncircumcision, but a New Creation/New Creature. We groan within ourselves waiting for the redemption of our new bodies that will be fashioned like His. All creation including earth is groaning waiting for the New Heaven and Earth.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/09


Char, when the word 'erets' is translated "earth" it references the whole of the global terrane as opposed to a part. Translated as "land" it refers to a specific district, region, ect. Translated "ground" it gives reference to the solid surface of the earth as opposed to the seas, lakes, etc. When all are used together in a phrase, all usually references the inhabitants in some way, example, Gen.1:25
'Adomah'-translated ground- is used to distinguish only the visible face or flat part which can be tilled or used for construction or building.
In other words, consider the use of the word earth as planet, land as the solid part, whether inhabitable or not and ground as the soil must suitable to sustain life.
---joseph on 2/28/09


Char words can have different meanings, their specific meaning defined by context.

In English we use 'earth' to mean a particular portion of the planet, or soil in general, or the whole planet. I think erets is the same.

'Gen1:1 uses Erets. In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth(erets).'

Surely erets here can only mean the planet. Other meanings make no sense.
---Warwick on 2/27/09


Char you wrote 'Peter is not referring to Noah's Flood. 1.This flood was worldwide and catastrophic and the world perished,leaving no one or thing untouched.In Noah's Flood,seven people,animals were kept.

Nowhere in Scripture OT/NT is another world-destroying flood mentioned-only Noah's.

Conversely Noah's flood is described in numerous Scriptures.

Noah's flood was called a deluge, given the Hebrew word 'mabbul' only used of this flood.

The thick world-wide fossil bearing sedimentary rocks contain representatives of the same humans and animals we see today-some now extinct. This I believe is overwhelming evidence this is the result of Noah's flood.

A question when do you think this fossil record was laid down?
---Warwick on 2/27/09


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Can you help me understand through the hebrew,the difference between Land,ground,earth
---char on 2/27/09

Realize, were not asking me....note all the other usages of the word,c.a. weisman fact and fiction notes: Erets does not actually carry any connotation of a global, spherical planet in its translation. While it has been translated as "earth" many times, it is also translated "country" 140 times, "land" 1,476 times, and "ground" 96 times in the Old Testament. God had told Abraham, "Get thee out of thy country (erets) ... unto a land (erets) that I will show thee" (Gen. 12:1), He did not mean for Abraham to leave the earth
---Trav on 2/27/09


Joseph considerable Biblical research by me and others much more knowledgeable, has shown that when Jesus talks of 'the creation' He is referring to the same thing as when Scripture says the whole creation (i.e. all that was created) groans in bondage to sin and decay-Rom 8:22

Therefore Jesus is saying man was made at the beginning of the creation in which we live, not the beginning of creation week.
---Warwick on 2/27/09


There is not indication in the Bible that God made more people than Adam and Eve. He told them to "be fruitful and multiply" and they probably did just that. I suppose that Cains wife could have been a daughter of Adam and Eve. That's probably not a popular idea but what else?
---jody on 2/27/09


Joesph,
Good point.

Gen1:10 And God called the dry land Earth...
Gen7:23 uses both adamah and erets,and in other places translated Land for erets.

And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the adamah(ground),both man,and cattle, and creeping things,and the fowl of the heaven,and they were destroyed from the erets(earth),and Noah only remainded alive,and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen1:1 uses Erets.

In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth(erets).

Can you help me understand through the hebrew,the difference between Land,ground,earth?
Does my question make sense?
Puzzle pieces learning the Hebrew.

Thanks,
God's Peace.
---char on 2/27/09


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My point as stated repeatedly.
This in ONE Teaching,There are others.


The Holy Spirit Compares Spiritual Things with Spiritual Things...
TRUST HIM.
God ALONE is all knowing.Job28
He has given us his Word to follow.Matt1:21-25.Jn1:1-14
He has given us His Spirit to Teach us.1Jn5,1Cor2

If we can't discuss these DIFFERENT Teachings between US,
Children IN-Christ,
Where's the Fruit to witness to anothers?Gal5:22
DIFFERENT Teachings are out there...Our flesh will be challenged.Matt26:41
Allow the Holy Spirit to move between,within and thoughout us.
I'll continue to bring to light the different teachings I am aware of.
I TRUST the Spirit of God in US will have his way.

God's Peace.
---char on 2/27/09


Thanks,Warwick,
In reference to this one teaching,
it points to the word "hayah" to exist,be or become,come to pass.
Here is some of the literature...

Peter is not referring to Noah's Flood.
1.This flood was worldwide and catastrophic and the world perished,leaving no one or thing untouched.In Noah's Flood,seven people,animals were kept.
2.Peter points out a difference between "the heavens and earth which are now" the "world that then was."Noah was under the heavens now.Heavens were not destroyed in Noah's flood.
3.Is45:18 "he create it not in vain(tohu-empty)
4.Heavens of old Gen1:1,Heavens now Gen1:6
5.2Pet3Greek idiom:"out of the primeval watery chaos"
God's Peace.
---char on 2/27/09


If it was in fact local then God is a deceiver. Not my God.
---Warwick on 2/26/09

Warwick, will start at the beginning will require posting....but, not this morning....gotta make a buck for the deficit builders.
Your comment above accurate .... what is not said but,....MAN deceives or is deceived....which has bearing on this topic. Not implying you. You didn't translate scripture. You believe some explictly.
"Erets" is a scriptural stone to build with.
Was taught & believed global.... scripture and known facts expose several things.

Seek and you shall find...
Knock....
---Trav on 2/27/09


"Jesus says (Mark 10:6) man was made at the beginning of creation."---Warwick on 2/23/09

The subject in Mark 10 is man, man divorcing his wife to be specific. Therefore Jesus' reference in 10:6 concerning "the creation" would be in reference to man rather than the earth or the whole of creation.

As concerning the noun "'katabole"(-a throwing or laying down, of a foundation-), when the word is used in reference to the earth, it is always used in conjunction with the verb "katabollo" (-to cast down-) as the root, or Etymology of the word.
---joseph on 2/27/09


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Do you know what an allegory is? Just as Jesus used parables to teach complex principles, the author if Genesis used the story of Adam and Eve to teach that God created us.
---Deb on 2/26/09


When I read the biblical account of the flood and try understanding it as a local flood, I just can't do it and the reason is because THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS!

The only thing I can think is that you have to have a preconceived notion that there was no global flood, and then try to manipulate the scriptures so you can support your notion.

Then I guess you have to try your hardest to make everyone else feel stupid for understanding the clear language used in this account so they will back off and not try to point out how wrong your notion is.

Sorry, I don't feel stupid.
---Laurie on 2/26/09


"Two Peter 3: 5-7 covers the destruction of the world by Noah's flood, and points to earth's destruction by fire."Warwick on 2/23/09
I Agree 2Pet. does cover the destruction of the 'world' (kosmos) by a flood and points to the world's destruction by fire.
However the neither the "world' nor the earth was destroyed by Noah's flood, only the inhabitants. There was no reconstruction of the earth necessary, only a repopulating.
---joseph on 2/26/09


Char again I have difficulty in discerning your point.

Genesis 1 says the earth 'was' formless and empty. Margin notes (not Scripture) suggest 'or possibly became formless and empty.'

It was translated 'was formless and empty' as this fits with the rest of Ch.1 which covers Gods continuing creative works. The world was of course without finished shape, and without life, at this point i.e formless and empty.

Secondly it was translated 'was' as the idea the world was destroyed and recreated at this time is not even hinted at anywhere else in Scripture.
Two Peter 3:6 is comparing the first world-wide destruction (Noah's Flood) which is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture, with the final world-wide destruction.
---Warwick on 2/26/09


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It seems to me that the Genesis creation accounts are mythology rather than history. That doesn't mean they aren't true. It just means they resemble art more than science. And they are much more beautiful and meaningful for that very reason. God bless.
---JohnnyB on 2/26/09


Trav,show me where Scripture describes a local flood!

Luke 17:26-29 refers to Jesus saying destruction came upon people while going about everyday lives-says nothing about the flood being local.

Genesis 7: over and over God says it was worldwide.all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered'..every living thing that moved on the earth perished..all the creatures that swarm over the earth and all mankind..everything on dry land...every living thing on the face of the earth...only Noah was left and those with him on the ark.

If it was in fact local then God is a deceiver. Not my God.
---Warwick on 2/26/09


Previously stated...
ONE Teaching out of MANY.

Isa 45:18
thus saith the Lord that created the heavens,God himself that formed the earth and made it,he hath established it,he created it not in vain(tohu-empty),he formed it to be inhabited...
***
If not create empty(void), the earth became waste and void.
The Word translated "was" hayah-stg#1961
Gen1:2
the earth (was/became)without form and void...etc...
Same word translated other places became,become,came to pass...etc..
Gen:
1:3,6,14
2:7,10
Gen3:22
Gen4:3,8,14,
Gen6:1

2 Pet3:6 (Not Noahs flood)-World then,PERISHED,
but with Noahs Flood,
seven people...animals...were kept.


God's Peace.
---char on 2/26/09


You use faulty logic, interpret Scripture via non-Biblical beliefs and make unwarranted assumptions.
---Warwick on 2/25/09
Noah's imediate "erets" world perished.
Realizing your universal cathol-ic doctrine is weakening ur wiggin out. Get a grip sis....
Luke 17:26-29 Christ likens days to "days of Noah" with days of Lot. Each of these people were destroyed....but not all the people...only them.
I'll give you more meat to chew on later.
Seek truth....a wave is after your sand castle doctrine.
---Trav on 2/25/09


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Warwick: "...2 Peter refers to the world's destruction..."

That's a good point. If Peter speaks of world-wide destruction in the eschaton, then it follows that the destruction he speaks about relating to Noah's flood is similarly world-wide. The believed shape of the earth (flat vs. spherical) is irrelevant here because God's destruction of the earth in the end will not be localized to one area of the globe.

Trav: Please provide additional bibical support for the date of the flood. The only definite duration of time you cite is the 430 years from Abraham to Moses.
---Bobby3 on 2/25/09


"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters" Genesis 5:4

They could have had scores of sons and daughters, with those children having scores of their own.

After the flood, the four surviving families started the cycle over again.
---Augustine on 2/25/09


Trav you your 'logic' is to use God's Biblical data to date Noah's flood but ignore the same data which calls it worldwide!

Can't have it both ways, 2 Peter refers to the world's destruction: 1) by flood. 2) Coming destruction of the same world, by fire. If 1) is local (contradicted by Genesis ch. 6-8), 2 must also be local.

Scripture mentions only 2 destructions!

Peter thought the world was flat? This is God's word we are reading! Did God think it was flat?

Why would Peter think it was flat anyway? Scripture says it is round and its roundness was known well before this time.

You use faulty logic, interpret Scripture via non-Biblical beliefs and make unwarranted assumptions.
---Warwick on 2/25/09


Trav:
How do you know when the flood took place?
---Bobby3 on 2/24/09
Biblical data places the Flood at 2345 BC + or -...according to Usher and others. The math can be done yourself using Pauls account (Galatians 3:17). He stated that the Israelites left Egypt to return to the promised land 430 years and using other known dates tied to this along with Abraham age,Terah and Shems ages.

The period is the Bronze age....as it would logically be working wood to fashion a worthy boat.
Summerians were not affected according to their records,seals etc. Nor was Mesopotamia,Minoans,Chinese,Japanese,American Indians....
---Trav on 2/25/09


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Trav,
If
Noah's world-wide flood
wasn't
world-wide
then what does
2 Peter 3:7 mean?
---Warwick on 2/24/09
Majesty/signs of GOD in these writings are that, these disciples who probably thought the earth was flat...(appx 500 yrs ago we discovered differently) leaving sentence context that testifys to GOD. Not held science of the time.

He writes:

6 by which the world that then existed
perished,.... (Then existed....known at the time)

7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved... (now...)applies 2000 yrs ago and "now"....
Scripture below is for Ktr. (Was too handy).
2 Peter 3:2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets..
---Trav on 2/25/09


Laurie,One thing I know for sure...Only God knows Himself.
(Brings me Peace)

God response to His Word...
a seed planted or watered, or fallen to the way side,I don't know.
I just trust he'll respond,he said he would.
How it grows is his doing.

Is55:11
...It will not return void.

You say people throwing scripture at you didn't help.
Whether you believe or not, seed being planted or some watered...your love for God is evidence the Word was and is working in you.

He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Phil 1:6
The Holy Spirit confirms it,God gets the Glory.

Only God's knows the Heart of man...
he's not done with us yet.
God's Peace.
---char on 2/24/09


Trav,
If
Noah's world-wide flood
wasn't
world-wide
then what does
2 Peter 3:7 mean?

Obviously that
the coming destruction
by fire
isn't world-wide either.

SO

Those who
wish to avoid it
just
need to know
where it's happing
locally
so they
can go somewhere else
to avoid it.

Right?

Where is the locality
where 'the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire...'?
---Warwick on 2/24/09


Trav: "Find civilizations leaving records in stone artifacts dating through an after event."

How do you know when the flood took place?
---Bobby3 on 2/24/09


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Joseph,.....

Two Peter 3: 5-7 covers destruction of world by Noah's flood, points to earth's destruction by fire---Warwick on 2/23/09

There was no "world" wide flood. So there is a truth you may not be afraid of like some pastorsees.
Since you like the translated word. Translate "world" Erets wherever it is used over 1,700 times.
Find timeline.
Find civilizations leaving records in stone artifacts dating through an after event.

You will see what scares the fairy scary tale one world universal doctrines. When truth is upsetting to people.....it's a mark as well.
I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.
Psalm 119:29-31 (


Psalm 54:4-6
---Trav on 2/24/09


Joseph,
You wrote 'Heb.1:10 and clearly refers back to the beginning Gen.1:1.'

Agreed!

Regarding Heb.4:3 you write 'katabole'-cast down or overthrow-' my English translations say 'from the creation of the world/ from the foundation of the world\.'katabole' in this context means 'founding, establishing.'

I believe your error stems from your belief in the non-Biblical, discredited 'Gap Theory.'

Two Peter 3: 5-7 covers the destruction of the world by Noah's flood, and points to earth's destruction by fire.

Jesus says (Mark 10:6) man was made at the beginning of creation. Therefore there can be no gap for ruin reconstruction.
---Warwick on 2/23/09


Char,

People usually get better the more they do it, but to be honest, not everyone does. The Bible says we should be ready to give a defense for the hope that we have, to do that we need to be able to explain it. Sometimes the best we can do is have a good understanding so if we have an opportunity we can at least answer questions.

Before I became a Christian it would have been so helpful to me if someone could have answered questions and explained things rather than just throw scriptures at me. I wasn't ready for that at the time, so it didn't help me. When a person is ready, God opens up the scriptures to them, but sometimes they're still at the place where they need to know if there's a good reason to consider the Bible.
---Laurie on 2/23/09


Trav,
Thanks and God Bless you Brother.

Joseph,
I understand.
Thanks,
I think the study will continue as I read scripture and learn more Hebrew/Greek.

God's Peace.
---char on 2/23/09


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Laurie,
greetings...
As you stated,
"I believe scripture,but I don't have to believe you."
Praise God...that's exactly the point."
Don't believe mine or anyone else's opinion...
The Holy Spirit confirms the Word.
An opinion can just add confusion...
The Holy Spirit was sent to confirm all Truths.
1Cor 2,Jn14(all)
I Believe he is regardless...

Doctrines,denomination,teachings,etc...are based on people's strong opinion,some with scholarship.
If I can't explain myself,it's best I don't Try.Prehaps I'll learn as I go along(Lord willing).
Hearing from the Holy Spirit is a blessing...trying to understand man is the burden.
(Blog perfect example)
Thanks again,
God's Peace.
---char on 2/23/09


Anyone else interested as to how I have "deduced" an age/cosmos prior to our current one, please reference the blog noted in my post to Char and consider these verses Prov.8:29>Isa.40:21 and the plural use of the word "foundations" ('mowcadah'-a founding or act of laying a foundation), or Isa.51:13>Job.38:4, where "foundations" translates from the word ('yacah'-to found, fix, establish, lay foundation), or Psa.104:5 ('makown'-fixed or established foundation). All verses are applicable to the earth, and the plural use of the word implies multiples. Not as in multiple earths, but rather earth ages. The first as established>Isa.45:18, then destroyed>Jer 4:20,27. The second as a restoration>Gen.1:2.
---joseph on 2/23/09


Warwick, consider that there are 2 words translated "foundation" in the N.T.
1). 'themelios'-to laid down, to establish- only used once as the root of the associative verb 'themelioo' as pertaining to the earth's condition, Heb.1:10 and clearly refers back to the beginning Gen.1:1.
2). 'katabole'-cast down or overthrow- used always of the earth's condition, prefixed in one of two ways: 'from the' ("opo"-denoting separation [between one [established] and another [restored]) Example Heb.4:3 which relates to Gen.1:2, or 'before the' ("pro"-prior to [the overthrow]) Example 1Pet.1:20. Relating to Gen.1:1. The separation of the two ages is confirmed by 2Pet.3:5-7. Please note and define the word 'perished'.
---joseph on 2/23/09


Laurie,
Thanks for the advice,
I'll have to pray on this.I firmly believe the Holy Spirit confirming the Word is best,mine or mans opinion of it means little.
For the 125 wd min my choices are scripture or
my opinion.I choice scripture.
It is a line upon line,precept upon precept Teaching that comes from the Holy Spirit.
step by step,word by word...
---char on 2/21/09
Very well said....
If most had been taught the above early in life....(me included) instead of putting faith in their doctrines or pastors....they could build a strong house on a foundation of "rock".
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:1-3
There are many.
---Trav on 2/22/09


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Joseph where is a 'prior earth age' mentioned in Scripture, OT or NT?

Or are you deducing it? If so from what do you deduce it?
---Warwick on 2/22/09


Char,

Our opinions should be based on scripture, but it's important that scripture be put into context so it can be determined if it is being used correctly. A person cannot simply use scripture as if everything he is trying to say is automatically biblically correct, and put the burden on someone else to have "ears to hear".

We are to test all things and hold fast to what is good. If you don't explain why you are using certain scriptures, you can't be tested. I believe scripture, but I don't have to believe you, do you see what I'm saying? If you quote scripture out of context, that is an incorrect usage, and someone can point that out to you, but you have to first explain why you think that scripture is applicable.
---Laurie on 2/22/09


"Joseph, Are you referring to different world ages?"

Char, Yes.
Specifically a prior earth age, just as there will be a future earth age as well, one that will last through out the eternity.
To better understand just what I base my line of reasoning upon, as pertaining to the prior age, please google "When did God Create the earth" #1169033064.htm and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have concerning my response to that blog.
---joseph on 2/21/09


Joseph,
Are you referring to different world ages?

Laurie,
Thanks for the advice,
I'll have to pray on this.I firmly believe the Holy Spirit confirming the Word is best,mine or mans opinion of it means little.
For the 125 wd min my choices are scripture or
my opinion.I choice scripture.
Faith comes by hearing,and hearing comes by the Word of God.
Rom10:17
To me this means the Holy Spirit will open the ears to hear by the Word of God...(at His will).
Mans opinion is mans opinion of it.
It is a line upon line,precept upon precept Teaching that comes from the Holy Spirit.
step by step,word by word...


Is that what you mean?
God's Peace.
---char on 2/21/09


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Bobby, Yes to both questions. Although I realize the words referenced in my prior post have very real spiritual connotations, I personally believe they are naturally applicable as well, as concerning our exchange of thoughts.
Concerning your statement, yes I know. Although, at that time they were probably not referred to as angels (this of course is speculative). Angel is a term that describes a position rather than a state of being, I:E a messenger, or one sent in this context, of the Father as "ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation."
---joseph on 2/21/09


1.Trav,my understanding of reality (my world-view) comes via Scripture.

2.They did not quote Scriprure without explanation.

2.You simply quote Scriptures without explaining how they connect to your point!
---Warwick on 2/20/09

1. You use your world view and try to fit scripture around it. I understand your doctrines opinions perfectly. They R wrong witnessed by scripture.

2.You are correct. But you never show the "rest of the story" with multiple scripture or contextual proof.

3. If you don't understand the context or scriptures posted....you are like the parable....R not meant to "see".
I do not post to U, 1 than cannot C but, to those that will C that U cannot C.
---Trav on 2/21/09


example you quote "various" Scriptures to defend your racist views. I am unable to see any connection between your racist views and Scriptures you quote. explain your point.
---Warwick on 2/20/09
"Various" scriptures U avoid like leprosy.
U fail to c what many see perfectly......but,we are blind. Ha.
Racist. Nice try, if I am GOD was.
confirmed same unto Jacob for a law, to Israel for an EVERLASTING covenant:
Psalm 105:9-11, Psa 15:4
Heb 8:8,Jer31:31,Isa51:1-2
We all know every "ethnos" is specially created for GOD's purpose. Making you the race hater. You state: racist it's no good to be separate/original, so universalise/mingle/meld. Balaam's Cathol-ic one world.
---Trav on 2/21/09


Trav,my understanding of reality (my world-view) comes via Scripture.

I give relevant Scriptures to show where my thinking comes from-as Jesus and apostles did- e.g.Mark 10:4-6 Jesus used Genesis 1:27 & 2:24 to make his case for marriage/divorce.

I then explain how this scripture confirms the point I am making-as Jesus and apostles did.

They did not quote Scriprure without explanation.

You simply quote Scriptures without explaining how they connect to your point!

For example you quote various Scriptures to defend your racist views. I am unable to see any connection between your racist views and the Scriptures you quote. You should explain your point.
---Warwick on 2/20/09


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Char,

Bless your heart, I really think you mean well, but as much as I love scripture it drives me crazy when people quote it in place of making a point using their own words. I understand why you're doing it, often scripture comes to my mind when I want to communicate something, but I know that just quoting it would not explain to others what I'm trying to say. It's fine to support your statements with scripture, but if you want anyone to understand what's on your mind, you need to say it.

You wouldn't talk like that face to face, right? If you did, people wouldn't think you sound spiritual, they'd think you were a nut. Put your scriptures into context for us, so we can understand how they are relevant to the conversation.
---Laurie on 2/20/09


Joseph: Going back to the original issue (the word 'replenish' in Genesis 1:28), is it your contention that the earth as inhabited by angelic beings prior to the creation of man? And man was instructed to repopulate the earth after a void was left upon the fall of some of the angels? If so, this is the first time I've heard anyone claim the earth to be populated by angels before man came onto the scene.

Trav: I don't mean to stir things up or anything, but I too have difficulty following what you say in your posts.
---Bobby3 on 2/20/09


1. I give Scriptures explain them so people will get my point.
2. You just quote references which have little, if anything, to do with the subject.
---Warwick on 2/19/09

1.Exactly. You challenge w/your (opinion)that does not have witness with scripture. Your twist, muddys rather than upholds. U c u may not be about truth but about....U.
Presumption on my part of opinion? U offer no second/third or more witnesses in scripture, nullifying your "points".

2.If I post a reference for a "subject" it is witnessed in scripture twice minimum. No witness references...no weight.
"Truth" in scripture. Scripture will stand on it's own. Most especially where there is conflict.
---Trav on 2/20/09


Trav, wrote 'Well it seems cryptic because you do not see or seek further.'
<... your writing makes no sense.

How presumptious! I have read Scripture from cover to cover many times, .. I have also preached on Scripture c600 times in churches in a number of countries.
---Warwick on 2/19/09

Confirm and underline what I'm saying and add what I suspected. If not able to see witnessing scriptures...preacher. You will not understand ever. Evidence says u don't retain your many readings....(example)GOD was married. Previous post u r not aware of it or its answer to false doctrine.
It was and is a mystery to you. With all your years of experience...you haven't weaned, preacher. You stopped or were stopped.
---Trav on 2/20/09


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Bobby3, pardon me for being unclear. I did not say the beings prior to the creation of Adam were human. I believe they were the original "Sons of God" I:E those we now refer to as angelic. The base of 'my' reasoning is Lucifer's fall and where I believe it to have occurred, based on these passages. "Thou has been in Eden the garden of God,...thou was upon the holy mountain of God,.. thou has said in thine heart, I will ascend 'into' heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:.. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,.."Eze.28:13-16>Isa.14:12-14. The words in Eden, mountain, ascend, above, stars, clouds, into heaven, etc, all give me the impression of one who is looking up from the earth into the sky.
---joseph on 2/20/09


Trav, wrote 'Well it seems cryptic because you do not see or seek further.'

Difficult to seek further because much of your writing makes no sense.


'To(sic) much work perhaps to read scripture.'

How presumptious! I have read Scripture from cover to cover many times, studied topically, and listened to countless sermons over the decades. I have also preached on Scripture c600 times in churches in a number of countries.

'She doesn't need wordy opinion muddying up the stated truth.'

I give Scriptures explain them so people will get my point. You just quote references which have little, if anything, to do with the subject.
---Warwick on 2/19/09


I use Char's word to describe your efforts-'cryptic.' Why not write plainly, as others here do?
---Warwick on 2/17/09

Well it seems cryptic because you do not see or seek further. To much work perhaps to read scripture. You have gone as far as you will or can.
The comparison is building precept upon precept. She doesn't need wordy opinion muddying up the stated truth. Multiple Scripture witnesses for this one as it does me. Far superior to OPINION.
Knowing your doctrines from years of research and own life....you grip tightly, where we swim freely in river of truth.
Plain enough?
---Trav on 2/19/09


Mercy,talk about humbling,
Here we go...
My correction and re-type:


He that loveth not knowth not God,
for God is Love.
1Jn 4:8

God's Peace.
---char on 2/18/09


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Satan knows the Word of God is truth.
If he didn't he would just leave it BE.
Instead...
He twists it...
tempting fruit,causing strife,pride,etc...
between the brethren.
1Cor3:3

Jesus Christ,the Word made Flesh is the ONLY TRUTH.
Jn1:1
The HOLY SPIRIT was sent to TEACH,comparing spiritual things,demonstrating power, barewitness...
of God's mind ONLY HE KNOWS.
1Cor 2
Teaching to each individual as HE ALONE knows them/US.

Having faith believing THE HOLY SPIRIT ACCOMPLISHES...
we don't judge man.
Matt7
Rom14
Fruits of the Spirit,don't just appear...they grow.
The Greatest-LOVE.
Gal5:22-26
1Jn4:8
He that loveth, not knowth not God,
for God is LOVE.

God's Peace.
---char on 2/18/09


Warwick,
I will refer you back to my previous post
on 2/11/09.
It begins with...
One Teaching...
to clarify,
not my teaching,
but a study.

God's Peace.
---char on 2/18/09


Why do people get so confused when reading Gen. 1 & 2? Chapter 1 ends with the sixth day, and chapter 2 starts with "Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished", and goes on to talk about what God did on the seventh day. It's a continuation of what was being spoken about in chapter 1, how is this mysterious? Chapter 2 goes into more detail about what happened on day six.

I see no evidence that there were ancient civilizations prior to Adam, but I do see scripture that contracts it, for instance, the genealogies date back to Adam. Adam is referred to as the first man. Chapter 1 ends on day six, and in chapter 2 it says on day seven God rested from "ALL His work".
---Laurie on 2/17/09


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