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What Day Is The Sabbath

What day is the true Sabbath, or did God do away with it!

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"none of those verses support the SDA sanctuary theory that Christ entered into the holy of holies on 22 October 1844 to begin judgment."

I wouldn't have given them if they didn't. I don't insult you, don't insult me, okay?
---djconklin on 9/23/07


"I guess Jesus only spoke to Ellen about His return."

Still can't find the proof where SDA's believe that He returned in 1844? I'll save you lots of work--your source for that whoppere lied through their teeth to you about that. Never listen to liars, they can't be trusted.
---djconklin on 9/23/07


I guess Jesus only spoke to Ellen about His return. hmmmm I wonder why there were no signs and wonders following so great a prophetess? Maybe bc she was wrong about so many things?
---Andrea on 9/22/07


David, what the Bible says about the sanctuary and judgment is fascinating. Thanks for sharing these texts. Even though I am not reading this for the first time, the plan of redemption makes me love Jesus even more. Think about it. God has been showing His way to us all along-Ps 77:13. Now He is opening our understanding, especially as we listen, obey Him and as His return approaches.
---Geoff on 9/19/07


dj - none of those verses support the SDA sanctuary theory that Christ entered into the holy of holies on 22 October 1844 to begin judgment.

Sorry, but history is full of false predictions and the SDA thing is much liken to the Jehovah's Witnesses belief that Christ came invisibly in 1914.

Jesus at his ascension took His place at the right hand of God the Father where He currently intercedes for us. Mk. 16:19, Heb. 1:3, 8:1, 10:2, 12:2.
---Lee on 9/18/07




"even SDA tries to avoid the whole sanctuary debacle"

Actually no. SDA's can face it head on--it is one of our teachings as per what the Bible says. Lev. 16, 23:26-32, Jer. 17:1, Exodus 30:9-10, Dan. 8:14, Joel 2:1, 28-32, Rev 8:6, 13, 14:7 (Lev 23:23,24, Nu 29:1), Heb. 9:11-2, 1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:25, Psa. 51:9, Heb 8:12, 9:27-8, 11:39-40, Exodus 32:33, Psa. 69:27-8, Rev. 3:5, Matt. 7:21-23, 15:8, 25:1-12, Luke 13:22-27, Eze. 18:24, 33:13, Matt. 24:13.

That's enough for starters.
---djconklin on 9/18/07


Gina - even SDA tries to avoid the whole sanctuary debacle

sin treading through heaven .......?
Isn't that exactly why we weren't allowed to go there?
Now Ellen drags us into the sanctuary to be judged - interesting thought ----
---Andrea on 9/17/07


Andrea, you quote EGW more than the Bible & most Adventists. Doesn't your GC (1911) p486 quote point you to:

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

OR

Psalm 1:5 (see also Psalm 24:3-5)
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
---Geoff on 9/17/07


dj - is your name denna?

mixing a little grace with lots of works is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Good works will get you a pat on the back.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit - living in Christ that produces love, joy, charity these are His work and my work is to 'believe' that He is who He says He is.

SDAs inferences that following Christ leads to lawlessness is disingenuous at best.
---Andrea on 9/17/07


"I meant to infer it is Jesus who guarantees our salvation. Not by the works of the law - are you SDA."

I'm an SDA and you first sentence is right on. The second doesn't make sense because SDA's don't teach that one is saved by their works. You can't bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit if that isn't the spirit that you follow and have allowed into your life.
---djconklin on 9/16/07




denna - you've lost me - did you read the post? I meant to infer it is Jesus who guarantees our salvation. Not by the works of the law - are you SDA.
---andre5846 on 9/16/07


"And the phrase "as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" is actually "sabbaths"- a plural word just like the first "sabbath." The Lord was showing us here that an era of sabbaths ended (7th day Sabbath) and a new era of sabbaths had begun (Sunday Sabbath). Check the Greek.
---Ed_from_IL on 9/15/07"

"first of the sabbaths" means first day of the week--that's how they kept track of the days of the week, only the Sabbath had a name.
---djconklin on 9/16/07


"Of course, Hebrews has never been a good book in support of some Adventists beliefs.
---Lee on 9/15/07"

That just shows how little of SDA beliefs you know. In the 28 Fundamental Beliefs which doesn't list all the verses that could be used the book of Hebrews alone accounts for 72 verses.
---djconklin on 9/16/07


"And of course, if Sabbath keeping were a moral law most likely you would find it also in non-Jewish cultures, but you do not."

In over 100 languages the seventh day is known as "sabbath." The reason they don't practice it is because they have wandered away from God--that's why they break the 3 of the 10C's of God's moral law--since it is all based on the moral principle of love.
---djconklin on 9/16/07


Of course, Hebrews has never been a good book in support of some Adventists beliefs.
---Lee 9/15/07
Hebrews is AN EXCELLENT book in support of the Sanctuary, that Jesus is our Great High Priest in the Sanctuary in Heaven, mediating for us before the Father. Hebrews 8:2 "A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man". There is a sanctuary in heaven, and Jesus is there as Great High Priest, ministering for us.
---Gina7 on 9/16/07


Notice 'guarantee'

And you also were included in Christ when .... Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--..."
(Eph 1:13-14)
"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, .... guaranteeing what is to come." (2 Cori1:21-22)
---andre5846 on 9/15/07


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Andre5846,

You might not be sure of your salvation, if not I certainly will pray for you. But I am sure of mine, and always will be.
---denna7667 on 9/15/07


*What a terrible burden you live under. Never knowing if your really saved - always about to lose it....*

Apparently Ellen White never got too much into the New Testament. If she did she may have read Hebrews 7:25 "Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them."

Of course, Hebrews has never been a good book in support of some Adventists beliefs.
---Lee on 9/15/07


Ed from IL: Get in behind satan, IT IS WRITTEN ...REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP HOLY...study your Bible well and understand what happened when the sacrificial ordinances were done away and why..study well..the 10 commandments still stand today..if no sin, then it would be gone by now..sin still abound so law is still around all 10 to point out our wrong..
---jana on 9/15/07


It was'nt until the romans became christians in 313 ad. we started worshiping
on the 1st day of the week.
The romans{pagans} worshipped the sun on the 1st day of the week, hense "sunday".
God created the Sabbath and made it a holy day before Jew or Gentile found a religon.
Look at your calander, sundays still the 1st day of the week...
---duane on 9/15/07


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What a terrible burden you live under. Never knowing if your really saved - always about to lose it. Saved today - not saved tomorrow- saved - not saved

EGW writes:

"Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned, and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God ... Day after day, passing into eternity, bears its burden of records for the books of heaven.
---andre5846 on 9/15/07


Unfortunately Matthew 28:1 is not translated correctly in our KJV Bible. The word "sabbath" in the Greek is really plural-sabbaths. And the phrase "as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week" is actually "sabbaths"- a plural word just like the first "sabbath." The Lord was showing us here that an era of sabbaths ended (7th day Sabbath) and a new era of sabbaths had begun (Sunday Sabbath). Check the Greek.
---Ed_from_IL on 9/15/07


I second Eloy. You just want to argue. There has been more scripture pointed out especially by Jack and others that you don't need any more from me. They have given you all the scriptures you need.
You will believe what you want and as I have said in the past. Only God can show you what he wants you to do. I do think you should not cut others down for what they believe. I will not post any more on this thread either.
I will not respond to your messages any more Pierr.
---Dewey on 9/8/07


Gina - *The Jews added restrictions to the Sabbath which made it a burdon instead of a joy,..."

True and that is something one can do if the law is a ceremonial law but if Sabbath keeping were a moral law then that would be rather impossible.

And of course, if Sabbath keeping were a moral law most likely you would find it also in non-Jewish cultures, but you do not.

So we have yet another argument that proves Sabbath keeping is not a moral law. Thank you!
---lee on 10/18/06


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"But the main reason they crucified Christ because in their opinions, He did not observe the Sabbath. they even scorned Him for healing on the Sabbath." The Jews added restrictions to the Sabbath which made it a burdon instead of a joy, and Jesus showed them that it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath day. Jesus showed us by example what true Sabbath worship was.
---Gina on 10/18/06


Ex31:13 Commanding the children of Israel, from whom the 12 tribes descended and if you are from one of the tribes then like Judah the remaining 11 must keep the Sabbath. The actual day of the true Sabbath can be found in scripture, and when found one will be astonished. The Sabbath has NOT been done away with it is to be kept by ALL the tribes generations, of which I am from Mannessah.
---Toby on 10/18/06


whoa Lee, your absolutly wrong here. Jesus was obedient to the Sabbath as He was always in His Fathers house teaching. Let me ask you this, What would you say to Christ when He asks you why you didnt obey His 10 commands? Would you still say, It was given to Jews only? Whom are those Jews today? We are. Believers of The Word. You are one of them arent you? Amen. So we need to obey all His commands.
---mmadm on 10/18/06


Gina - *They were not even commandment keepers, much less true Sabbath keepers, as they had evil in their hearts, and wanted to murder Jesus, and did.*

But the main reason they crucified Christ because in their opinions, He did not observe the Sabbath. they even scorned Him for healing on the Sabbath.

The Pharisees, much like the Sabbath keepers today, had made the Sabbath into an idol and used that idol as a means of judging the spirituality of others.
---lee on 10/17/06


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"His worst enemies were the Sabbath keepers. I wonder how they will fare when they see Jesus face to face." They were not even commandment keepers, much less true Sabbath keepers, as they had evil in their hearts, and wanted to murder Jesus, and did. They were of their father the devil, and they exposed themselves by their actions.
---Gina on 10/17/06


Lee, you said "That rest is in Christ..." And what IS that rest? I'll read your mind. Christ's finished work Gen 2

1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made
---Geoff on 10/17/06


Gina - *When Jesus appears at the 2nd coming, are all who insist the Sabbath has been done away with, will you still argue it to the face of your Saviour ...?*

No one believes the Sabbath was "done away with", Christians simply believe it was given only to the Jewish nation; not the church.

We can see that in that Jesus never commanded anyone to observe the Sabbath, in fact, His worst enemies were the Sabbath keepers. I wonder how they will fare when they see Jesus face to face.
---lee on 10/17/06


"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is,and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day,and hallowed it.Ex 20:11" Amen! Jesus words are eternal, and he changes not. When Jesus appears at the 2nd coming, are all who now insist that the Sabbath has been done away with, will you still argue it to the face of your Saviour who died for you? Your Saviour who rested on the Sabbath from creating you, and redeeming you?
---Gina on 10/16/06


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Geoff - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb 4:11

That rest is in Christ as His work has been completed on our behalf. We need not strive by obedience to law for our own walk and salvation.

Again, you need to veiw the entire context to grasp the meaning. Note Hebrews 4:3

For WE WHO HAVE BELIEVED HAVE ENTER THAT REST,..."
---lee on 10/16/06


Verbatim:

For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all His works. Heb 4:4

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex 20:11

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. Gen 2:2
---Geoff on 10/16/06


Lee said, "Geoff, where in the Genesis creation story do we see God commanding anyone to observe a day of rest?"

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb 4:11
---Geoff on 10/16/06


Michel Hi.The answer to your question yes. Almost 1000hrs of study and much in prayer, and the answers are revealed. Q.Acts20:35 It is more blessed to give than to receive.This being true what can we give our heavenly Father, that he does not already own? Think on 1Thes 5:21 John14:26, John14:15 v21-24, 1John3:22-24,Mat5:17, 1Cor3:16-17, Lev 7:15, Lev 22:30,Tit:1:13-16,Ps146:3 These are keys. It is diff. to put so many hours of work into 85 words.
---Toby on 10/12/06


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Toby
*Q what would you do if you found"the Sabbath" was niether Sat or Sun. A. I would change instantly, and that I have done.*

Could you please elaborate on this? Are you saying that you have found evidence that the 7th-day Sabbath is neither on Saturday nor on Sunday, and as a result you have changed your day of worship/communion with God?
---Michel on 10/10/06


Geoff - "where in the Genesis creation story do we see God commanding anyone to observe a day of rest?"

It is obvious that you are totally unable to answer my question on this one.

*Since you missed it in the OT .. here it is in the NT:*

Heb 4:4-5 speaks of the rest of God; not the Mosaic Sabbath; and we read in 4:3 that those who believe have entered that rest.

And the church is not under the Old Covenant but under the New Covenant - 2 Cor. 3:6, Hebrews 8:8-13
---lee on 10/10/06


Michel Q.can I PROVE that God exists? A.Yes, things created only come from a creator.We see a black cow eat green grass and give white milk,it can only be bydesign.Q Deceived
by whom? A.Rev20:10 Q what would you do if you found"the Sabbath" was niether Sat or Sun. A. I would change instantly, and that I have done. To follow his will, know his will,we must search daily. Pray for, the Fathers, Yahuwehs spirit of wisdom, under- standing, discernment to work in us through Yahushua as we study.
---Toby on 10/10/06


Lee asked, "where in the Genesis creation story do we see God commanding anyone to observe a day of rest?"

Since you missed it in the OT & you've jettisoned the OT anyway, here it is spelled out for ya in the NT:

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Heb 4:4-5, see also Gen 2:2-3, Ex 20:11 Reason enough?
---Geoff on 10/9/06


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Lee, the answer to your Q is that the Sabbath Commandment was written on their hearts-Ro 2:11-15, but God had to spell it out for the newly released Egyptian slaves. You are really looking for excuses. 1st you missed the link between the original 7th day & the consistent Sabbath reminder at Sinai and repeated in the NT, and now you are trying to wiggle out of obedience by saying 'oh, I was never told...'

But, "to obey is better than sacrifice..." 1 Sam 15:22
---Geoff on 10/9/06


Lee
*Like if Christ came invisibly in 1914; like the view that Christ entered into some heavenly sanctuary to judge Christians*

Christ coming invisibly? Wrong blog, go see some JWs.

Christ entering into some heavenly sanctuary to judge Christians? I already addressed this yesterday. Please read my posts before you make the same mistake again.
---Michel on 10/9/06


Geoff - but where in the Genesis creation story do we see God commanding anyone to observe a day of rest? There is not even a hint that God told Adam or Eve to observe the sabbath; nor do we see any of the patriarches obsering the sabbath. Your argument is simply not supportable.
---lee on 10/9/06


Lee said, "But is the Sabbath as instituted by Moses in Exodus, the same as the 7th day rest of God in Genesis 2? Granted that there is some kind of link but are they the same?"

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it-Ex 20:11 OT
For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all His works-Heb 4:4 NT
---Geoff on 10/9/06


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Michel - * there will always remain certain things that cannot be proven,...*

Like if Christ came invisibly in 1914; like the view that Christ entered into some heavenly sanctuary to judge Christians; but common sense should be a means some things can be rejected.
---lee on 10/9/06


(1-2)Toby
*Doesnt the book say "prove all things"*

I am a physicist by schooling, so if anyone seeks to prove all things, that's me. My point was that after all the research one is able to do/access, there will always remain certain things that cannot be proven, e.g. can I PROVE that God exists? This is where faith comes in by definition. Being unable to prove is very different from not bothering to prove. I was addressing the former. I agree that the latter is unacceptable.
---Michel on 10/8/06


Toby
The bottom line is that God is fair and will not hold me accountable for light that He has not revealed to me by his Spirit and through my thorough research. I have no particular affinity for Saturday as a day, I commune with God on it because at this time, the whole world believes that it IS the 7th-day, but if it becomes established that the week has somehow been shifted through the ages and that the 7th-day Sabbath actually falls on a Wednesday, so be it!
---Michel on 10/8/06


(2-2)Toby
*For the sake of discussion whatwould you do if you found "the Sabbath" was niether Sat or Sun as we know them, and we had been deceived all this time?*

Deceived by whom? This is why I said: God knows my motivations. I follow God's will to the best of my understanding at this time. This is very different from people who say: I know God wants me to keep the 7th-day holy, but I choose to keep the 1st day holy - regardless of whether these days are the same as 6,000 years ago.
---Michel on 10/8/06


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Lee
*It seems[...]predecessors of Moses observed some kind of rest or sabbath day. But that would have to be an argument totally from silence as no records exist for Sabbath keeping before Moses.*

WOW! Breakthrough! For second time today, I am stating that you are correct! There is no explicit record between Creation and Moses, but it is the only logical thing to assume considering the original texts and context, (using Occam's razor principle which I humbly learned from our friend JohnT.)
---Michel on 10/8/06


Hi Michel. Well you nearly had me until "so what". Doesnt the book say "prove all things"
therefore it should be proveable.Isnt he holding us accountable to prove all things.
Can we say, oh I didnt bother to prove that I went with tradition. Mat15:3 Mar7:13
Tit1:14 For the sake of discussion whatwould you do if you found "the Sabbath" was niether Sat or Sun as we know them, and we had been deceived all this time?
---Toby on 10/8/06


But is the Sabbath as instituted by Moses in Exodus, the same as the 7th day rest of God in Genesis 2? Granted that there is some kind of link but are they the same?

It seems that one has to make the case that the predecessors of Moses observed some kind of rest or sabbath day. But that would have to be an argument totally from silence as no records exist for Sabbath keeping before Moses.
---lee on 10/8/06


Toby, I really meant those names for the 7th-day Sabbath are all synonymous & I was referring to Semitic (usually descendants of Shem) like the Jews which confirm continuity. We know Good Friday or Preparation Day & we know (what they call Easter) Sunday. So what's the problem? Sabbath is too obvious.
---Geoff on 10/8/06


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Toby, I'd like to chime in with Michel & Jana on this one. You ask a good Q, whether we can be certain Saturday, Sabbath & the 7th day of the week are synanimous. The evidence is overwhelming. We practically know with certainty they are the same because of semetic races like the Jews, history, archeology, the Bible, even comparing cultures & languages. I would love to provide even a fraction of the proofs. God wouldn't hold us accountable for what's unknowable.
---Geoff on 10/8/06


Donna, the Sabbth is the 7th day, not Sunday the first day. Gen2:2 says, God ended His work on the 7thday, He blessed and sanctified this day only.Read Luke1&2and when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdlene n Marythe mum of James n Salome had bought sweet spices, that they might come and annoint Him.V2And very early in the morning the first dy of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.The writers would of mentioned sum otherdays else otherwise.
---jana on 10/8/06


michel, I did not use a Hebrew concordance. And it is improper to use "Sheba Yowm"-"Seventh Day" and "Shabath"-"Rest" interchangebly, because Seventh Day is just that, the seventh day; but Rest happens every day and not just on the seventh day.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


Toby
*Gen 2:2-3 Also can you answer my question as below, as it appears Michel is having difficulty.*
Sorry, I was focused on Eloy's point. Can I prove that today's Saturday is the same day (modulo 7) as the 7th-day of creation? Based on the Jewish calendar and the work of historians, we are pretty sure as far back as we have written records. Is it absolute certainty? No. But so what? God will only hold me accountable for the information (light) accessible to me and will judge my motivations.
---Michel on 10/7/06


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(1-2)Eloy,
* God does not rest because he is God and does not weaken or weary like man does. Please know that God Almighty works every single day, for to God time is eternal or one long continuum, and days and seasons were made for man's benefit.*

I could not agree with you more! I made the very same point to JohnT/Lee, which begs the question then: for whom was the seventh-day Sabbath blessed and sanctified? The only other relevant beings are Adam and Eve.
---Michel on 10/7/06


Eloy please read Gen 2:2-3 Also can you answer my question as below, as it appears Michel is having difficulty. Thanks
---Toby on 10/7/06


Eloy,
You are absolutely correct and I appreciate your use of the Jewish concordance. You will note however that even though "seventh day" and "Sabbath" are 2 distinct words, they are used interchangeably and "fused" together in Ex16:25-26, Ex20:10 and thereafter.
---Michel on 10/7/06


(2-2)Eloy
Now, in Eden, Adam and Eve did not tire either while they worked in the garden. So the seventh-day Sabbath was not meant to be a day of physical rest for them, then what? As you pointed out already, it was a time to cease their day-to-day activities, and (my belief) to dedicate their time to commune with their Creator, which they otherwise did in the evening only (Gen3:8)
---Michel on 10/7/06


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God does not rest because he is God and does not weaken or weary like man does. Please know that God Almighty works every single day, for to God time is eternal or one long continuum, and days and seasons were made for man's benefit.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


Michel, I never use man's words in place of Scripture. The Hebrew word "Shabath" literally means "Rest". It is found first in Genesis 2:2, and also in Exodus 5:5 and Exodus 23:12. But the word "Seventh" in Hebrew is "Sheba", and not "Shabath", also found in Genesis 2:2; And "Seventh Day" is "Sheba Yowm" in Hebrew, but "Rest" is "Shabath", all found in Genesis 2:2. It means to rest or cease from labor.
---Eloy on 10/7/06


If it is wisdom to ask a question then many of us are wise. Who is saying the "true Sabbath happens every day" work 6days rest1. What I asked, can we pinpoint the Sabbath the seventh day as one of our pagan named days, which it must be. You appear tosuggest it is Saturday but can you prove this weeks seventh day is actually Saturday or are you just going on Jewish tradition. Remember Satan has deceived the whole world, so what if the 7th day was say Monday or Friday. Can we actually prove it.
---Toby on 10/6/06


Eloy,
*"Sabbath" literally means "Rest", therefore the true Sabbath happens every day, Rest on Sunday, and [...] Rest on Saturday.*

Perfect example of what happens when man tries to substitute his "wisdom" for God's.
The "true sabbath" cannot happen every day because it is NOT just a day of physical rest. Gen2:3 tells us that God "blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it", something He did not do for Sunday or Thursday. Clear and simple!
---Michel on 10/6/06


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The 7th day has always been the Sabbath, right from creation. But can we actually align it with one of our pagan named days like Satur/day=Saturn=Satyn=Satan=Satanday.
Sun/day=Venerable day of the sun diety=paganism=sun worship=sunday
So what day is it and can it be proved in scripture. I would appreciate your imput.
---Toby on 10/6/06


The 7th day is and always has been the Sabbath Day as it is the day God himself rested. Not because he needed to, but to set an example for us.
---Glen on 10/6/06


If God is the same yesterday, today and forever like His word says He is, then why would he "change" the Sabbath? My Sabbath day is Sunday because I work full-time and I use Saturday's to clean, and do all of my chores along with grocery shopping, etc.,
---Donna9759 on 10/6/06


Eloy, and when do we work?
---Geoff on 10/6/06


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The Sabbath is an Old Testment Law, but we are now under the New Testament Law. "Sabbath" literally means "Rest", therefore the true Sabbath happens every day, Rest on Sunday, and Rest on Monday, and Rest on Tuesday, and Rest on Wednesday, and Rest on Thursday, and Rest on Friday, and Rest on Saturday.
---Eloy on 10/5/06


Lee, you almost have it correct. Rome renamed a pagan celebration with a Christian intent in order to Christianize stuborn pagans. Dan 7:25 See: History of Christianity in the Light of Modern Knowledge, Chapter III; cited in Religion and Philosophy, pp. 73, 74.
---Geoff on 10/5/06


No, the Roman govt changed the day of rest from 'Sunday to Sunday'.
It was easy to do considering that the overwhelming majority of Christians already observed Sunday; but not as a Sabbath.
I believe that SDA scholars have already concluded that the early church discarded the Sabbath by the beginnning of the 2nd century and they give theories on why that was done.
---lee on 10/4/06


Lee
*What the Roman government did was to change the communal day of worship from Sunday to Sunday*

I believe you mean "from Saturday to Sunday"
---Michel on 10/3/06


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What the Roman government did was to change the communal day of worship from Sunday to Sunday in the attempt to make some kind of standardization.
Of course, they did not have too much respect for Judaism as there was a continual conflict with the Jewish side of the church that was never really resolved. We see that debate in Paul's writings against the Judaizers especially in the epistle to the Galatians.
---lee on 10/3/06


Lee
*Billy - No, the RC church did NOT change the Sabbath*
In all the RC quotes that I posted 10 days ago (and many more where those came from), Catholics sure seemed to claim ownership of Sunday-in-place-of-Sabbath worship...
But not to worry, all these Catholic historians are probably dead wrong!
---Michel on 10/2/06


Billy - No, the RC church did NOT change the Sabbath. SDA scholars have found that the majority church early in the 2nd century did not observe the Sabbath as it was not commanded of the church (Acts 15) and most likely reflected the teachings of the Apostles themselves. The 'written in stone' you refer to is that 'ministry of death written on stone' (2 Cor. 3:7).
What is Satans counterfeit is the belief that we have to work for our salvation - a denial of finished work of Christ on the cross.
---lee on 10/2/06


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