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Don't Pray To Dead People

Is there a passage that states, do not pray for the dead?

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 ---Angel on 6/4/05
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2.
Miracles are not for the person on earth sake but more of proof from God that they are in Heaven. If God grants a Miracle, and the RCC finds no other method of cure used, then the 'Servant of God' is raised to'Blessed'. (Mother Theresa is Blessed) Remember, this is God's only way of telling the Church they are in Heaven.
2nd miracle is needed from God for the Church to raise the Blessed to Sainthood.
---Nicole on 5/3/08


The RCC does not make saints. She declares Saints by a Sign from God.
But if the Church finds out that a person have been praying to more then one Servant of God or Blessed, God has granted a Miracle. Neither title is raised because the Church does not know which person God has granted a sign of a miracle on his or her behalf.
Only Martyrs if found that their death is defined as a witness of Jesus and accepting death instead of life for Jesus can be raised to Sainthood without miracles as proof.
---Nicole on 5/3/08


I checked out the references that Rhonda gave, all except one so far, I am still busy. They talk about being in the grave, and two of them say that from the grave we will hear God's voice and another says we will see God, when we rise. None mention Hell. So far. I would, in ending, point out Ecclesiastes 12.7 since it differentiates between the fate of the body and that of the spirit. Your spirit rises immediately from your body. I have seen dead bodies, and there is noone in them - empty shells.
---frances008 on 5/3/08


Alan of UK, No, we do not pray to the dead. First God is the Father of the living. Remember Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus when He was Transfigured in front of Peter, James and John.
2nd when we pray all prayers are in the hands of God. Only He can let someone in Heaven know our requests.
As for praying to candidates for miracles, this a whole section in itself. I will explain in the next blog.
---Nicole on 5/3/08


1.
Raise to Sainthood.
We don't know who is in heaven or not.Everyone in Heaven is a Saint. But the purpose of knowing those in Heaven for us here on earth is to following in their footsteps can help us as well.
RCC always plays the rule of 'You must prove it to us first'. A person's life must be considered a godly life. (Not perfect) Then the Church calls them 'Servant of God'. Only these persons who having these titles does the Church states it is okay to pray to them for a miracle from God.
---Nicole on 5/3/08




ALL::This controversy of praying 'FOR' the dead stems from the belief in Purgatory.Right-but People in Purgatory are there prior to entering Heaven, they are the Misguided, God's people who are destined For 'HEAVEN' but need cleansing.Is it therefore wrong to pray that God will have mercy and relieve them of their sins.? By Not Praying you deny them Heaven,Then whose agenda is being served-ask yourself,do you crucify them by your refusal to pray? Is your action or deleting Machabees Christian Charity.
---Emcee on 5/3/08


Why pray for the dead? The only point it makes is showing others how foolish and ignorant they are about God's word. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus was just that a parable. A parable is literally an illustration of one subject to another. In other words it is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning. People didn't like the idea of not escaping from hell so they made up purgatory. Believing they could be prayed out and escape. So ignorant on God's word.
---Rebecca_D on 5/3/08


Nicole ... You say you do not pray to the dead.
But is not part of RCC process of beatification the enquiry into miracles supposedly performed by the dead folllowing prayer to them?
For example, Cardinal Newman is said to have given a miracle following prayers to him, and now he is being considered for Sainthood.
I have to say I find it wierd, man being able to to promote a dead person from the status of saint to Saint.
---alan_of_UK on 5/3/08


Emcee_I'm neither Ruffled or Irritated...
Olive Branch excepted and my arms are out and open as well.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/3/08


Ruben, believing on the "allusion" of quotes
---Rhonda on 5/2/08




**
Rhonda, Allison, and Lisa stated "pray to the dead"
**

quibble over words ..okay I'll be more specific ...pray to dead, pray about dead, pray for dead, around dead, over dead, through dead

ANY TYPE OF 'DEAD PRAYER' IT'S A PAGAN OCCULT PRACTICE no matter which way you state it

prayers are answered for the LIVING not the dead ...remember the dead are in hell waiting the resurrection: Psa 146:4, Ecc 9:5,10, John 5:28-29, Dan 12:2, Job 19:25-26, 14:12-14
---Rhonda on 5/2/08


Samuel::FYI it is a sin to pray or invoke the dead and a lawagainst he teachings of The church.However if Mary was dead why is she being permitted by Jesus to visit us and tell us to Repent.Can dead people come back NO but Mary does so now you will say it is a devil.Which in essence means Jesus and the devil are consorting with each other to fool poor Samuel and those who believe like Samuel."A house divided against itself cannot stand"
---Emcee on 5/2/08


DDM, no, I wasn't speaking about you. Rhonda, Allison, and Lisa stated "pray to the dead".
Lisa, you are wrong if think praying to and praying for the dead is the same.
If you have a family member in the hospital dying and I find you holding his hand, with your eyes closed, I can say you are praying FOR him. If others say you are praying to him, then they are not too bright.
---Nicole on 5/2/08


DDM::So you got irritated. WHY? apparantly you understood my post and have no answer so retort with Ruffled feathers.Talk ON and TO the point dont create other issues.Its called being curteous.This is my olive branch.Its not a shame to learn from Man we all do Our parents Friends those in authority.and even the Man printed Bible. not to mention Priests and those appointed as in Matt16:17-19.
---Emcee on 5/2/08


One Point memebers of the RCC and other churches pray to the dead all the time. Mary and all the saints that they pray to are dead. They have to be dead before being made into a saint.

If the RCC had left the Bible as the final authority there would be major agreements with them.
---Samuel on 5/2/08


No. We cannot pray anyone out of hell or "purgatory".

If Lazarus was only a parable not an actual person, why would you then take a "parable" and apply it literally.
That's a double standard right there.

We cannot pray someone out of hell.
It cannot be done. It is paganism.
---lisa on 5/2/08


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Protestants went against the RCC because they had replaced the Bible with men's ideas and traditions. The RCC puts traditions equal with the Word of GOD. Just as the jews did. Look up the relstion of tradition and the Bible from the RCC perspectve. Tradition wins.

Do you believe that what men say should be superior to what GOD says?
---Samuel on 5/2/08


Nicole_If your talking about me?
Please reread my reply, I never said that you pray "to" the Dead.
I Used the word "For"...

Emcee_Ive learned Nothing of Gods word from Man.

No Storm or their Waves Move me, NOR can they, I Built Upon a Rock & the Foundation is Firm.
A fool builds upon Sand!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/2/08


Emcee_Drift away?
I'm not a Roman Catholic...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/2/08


Nicole, where would you be without your Catholicism? You would be completely lost. We however, we depend on Jesus and are not lost. There is nothing they can take from us because we have nothing except Jesus. (I speak for those of us who do not cling to the traditions of men.) You need to get on a solid foundation because the RCC is going to suicide itself. Watch this space.
---frances008 on 5/1/08


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Come on DDM:: Its not your fault if people from past generations protested drifted away under another name from the teachings of Jesus.The standard dating back to the jews in Exodus has not changed.Many new sects have sprung up these are the tares.Some of the ancestors broke away as they still do, but does that alter the word of God and those who hold fast to His teachings in Matt16:17-19.You must agree that the offspring who drift with the sands of Time follow their parents.
---Emcee on 5/1/08


Please do not change my words. I pray FOR the dead not to the dead. Words are so easy for you all to get confused.
Also, YOU CAN NOT PRAY FOR ANYONE TO GET OUT OF HELL. Remember Luke 16:19-31, The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
Emcee, I love your short and to the point statement. It states it all.
"If you can't beat it, delete it."
---Nicoled on 5/1/08


Hey, don't get mad at me. I am not the one you rob you of God's Words. The Reformers and Luther stole them from you.
Apocrypha are those book rejected by the Council of Hippo A.D. 393 as being non-biblical.
The Catholic use of the "Apocrypa," as define above, should be distingish from the incorrect Protestant use of the word. You use this word to our 7 books after Council of Hippo approved these 7 books in the OT.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


I stand corrected. I found out that Luther at one time he eliminated the Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Apocalypse from the New Testament, but later Protestants reinserted them. But they did not reinsert the old Testament books rejected by Luther. Which are
Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Barach, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and parts of Esther and Daniel. Protestants call the books found in the Catholic Apocrypha the Pseudepigraphal books.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


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2
Jews preserved Hebrew Scriptures via oracles of God - Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Calendar (Rom 3:1,2) ...Hebrew Scriptures also called law of prophets where Christ came to fulfill not destroy Law of God (Mat 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-45) Christ stated in Matt 24:35 His words shall not pass away ...do you believe Christ has ability to preserve His Word through His Disciples - they were the ONLY men in prophecy who were GIVEN this responsibility ...I trust prophecy of Gods Word not additions of men
---Rhonda on 5/1/08


Moderator, all are Christains who believe in Jesus Christ.
I am sure you and I as Christains worship Jesus. But, don't fool yourself. If you go to Church you are following some type of tradition. Or if you stay at home then you follow your own tradition. But one type of tradition or another tradition you are following as a Christian.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


Nicole_Like I said SHOW Me "A Passage" that says: PRAY for the Dead!
I have other things to do, Then help you PROVE "That WE should Pray for the Dead".

You have been shown many, 1 MORE from Me WILL change your Mind?
I doubt it(from what i've been reading).
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/1/08


the Apostles never quoted from apocrypha ... and more than 250 direct quotes from OT in the NT.

In OT and NT there are no quotes to any apocrypha books ...not even an allusion
---Rhonda on 5/1/08



Not true:

Matt 2:16-Wis 11:7
Matt 7:12-Tobit 4:15
Matt 6:19-20-Sirach 29:11
Matt 9:36-Judith 11:19
Matt 24:15-Macc 1:54
1 Cor 15:29-2 Macc 12:43-45
Luke 13:29-Baruch 4:37

And there's more if you want them!
---Ruben on 5/1/08


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1
Ruben God does not specifically give us name of person who will become man of perdition ..do you believe this person exists or do you disbelieve Gods Word because He doesnt provide a name? If you BELIEVE God then prophecy in Isaiah is only truth Isa 8:13-17, 7:14, 8:8, 9:6 ...disciples were to bind up testimony and seal the law because they were called out John 6:44, 65, ....Apostles were aware of their responsibility Luke 24:25-27, Rom 16:25,26, II Pet. 3:15-16, and others
---Rhonda on 5/1/08


Nicole, why are you making Jesus out to be a liar. He said he came to bring a sword, and that he would divide families, two against three and three against two, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter in law and daughter in law against mother in law. Jesus divides. You choose the side you are on. Protestants are no more divided than Catholics. I know because I was one.
---frances008 on 5/1/08


Nicole, why are you making Jesus out to be a liar. He said he came to bring a sword, and that he would divide families, two against three and three against two, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter in law and daughter in law against mother in law. Jesus divides. You choose the side you are on. Protestants are no more divided than Catholics. I know because I was one.
---frances008 on 5/1/08


Christians do not pray to or for the dead. I studied the World Religions and I found a lot of them believed in praying to different gods and to praying for their dead ancestors or to their spirits however we as Christians can't and shouldn't condone this type of worship.
---Allison on 5/1/08


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The KJV is the most authentic version of Gods Word ...the apostles canonized the NT as described in prophecy Isa 8:13-17 ...
---Rhonda on 5/1/08



Please give Book, chapter and verse where the Apostles canonized the NT, and Isa 8:13-17 list no books whatsoever, how do you know which books belong in the bible!
---Ruben on 5/1/08


The Septuiagent was a greek translation of the Old Testament. It included the apocrapha such as Maccabees. These were not considered scripture by the Jews but were writings of wise men. Martin Luther decided the Jews were correct about what was their Bible.

Yes Protestants many more then just Martin Luther turned against the RCC. Popes gained power by killing those above them. Popes lived like devils yet claimed to be the spokes people for GOD. Look up the Borgia popes.
---Samuel on 5/1/08


I realise that there are some who do pray for the dead, and you might even believe that someone has prayed Judas out of purgatory or hell, but it cannot be done.

I've read the blogs, we'll have to wait and See. No, we don't wait or find out when the time comes. The time is now. Prayers for the dead go to the dead letter office and are returned to the sender.
---lisa on 5/1/08


Its clear why many pray to dead ..they use sources not from Gods Word

The KJV is the most authentic version of Gods Word ...the apostles canonized the NT as described in prophecy Isa 8:13-17 ...there is nothing to indicate other books such as apocrypha are authentic ....Apocrypha translated from greek means hidden or secret in origin ...interestingly the synonyms in English for apocryphal are unauthentic and ungenuine
---Rhonda on 5/1/08


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the Apostles never quoted from apocrypha ...more than 350 statements from NT referencing passages in OT, and more than 250 direct quotes from OT in the NT.

In OT and NT there are no quotes to any apocrypha books ...not even an allusion
---Rhonda on 5/1/08


Praying for the dead is no different than praying to the dead...asking the dead for advice about your life.

Cults, eastern mysticism, paganism pray to/for the dead. It's strange but even atheists and agnostics have been known to pray for/to the dead.
---lisa on 5/1/08


council of Trent in 1563AD declared apocrypha versions as equal to any of the books in Gods Holy Bible universal did this to separate themselves from the Protestants declaring anyone who rejected apocrypha to be anathema of Christ torturing and killing those who refused to be FORCED into accepting these books

Gods Word is complete in the KJV
---Rhonda on 5/1/08


Our spirit is eternal, it never dies. At the moment we die, we are either with the Lord or in torment without end.
It's too late when you die for anyone to pray you out of that eternal torment. It cannot be done. It's over.

It's paganism to pray for the dead.
The "Holy See" is the Holy Spirit. Let the scales fall from your eyes to See that if you postpone your decision to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior in this life - no one can pray you out of hell. No one.
---lisa on 5/1/08


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Nicole,

I am not a Protestant, but am a Christian. As you study church history including the Catholic church, you will realise the Apocrypha wasn't part of canon scripture and never has been. Jerome who translated the Bible and Apocrypha into Latin himself questioned placing the Apocrypha in a Bible as it wasn't scripture or even historic facts in some instances.
---Moderator on 5/1/08


DDM:: I am of the same opinion as Nicole,otherwise why would Luther leave it out.He was wise "If you cant beat it -delete It" life goes on remember in those days it was easier to lose your head than prestige.
---Emcee on 5/1/08


Thank you Moderator. I've known for a long time that someone who practices paganism has never left the blogs, only hidden themselves behind cryptic language.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/08


Moderator,I can't help it if your leaders decided to remove parts of the Bible.If you call yourself Protestant?Protestant comes from 'protest' or Reformer-you are reforming something. Words states one before it.You can't protest or reform which is not already formed. Your titles are saying that the RCC was first. The RCC put the canon the Sacred Scriptures together. Luther and other ex-RCCs left and threw out these Books. If my Bible has Maccabees and your doesn't, you need to really pray about this.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


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Everyone, please answer the question. Give a passage saying do not pray for the dead.
DDM,I'm waiting for YOUR PASSAGE. If my passage doesn't work for you then you need to go to Jesus about that problem. Yes, I will pray for the dead including Protestants.
Can you not see the hardness of your hearts?
Repent before it is too late.
Jesus is God of Order not chaos.
Why do you disagree with each other? 40,000 different opinions of the Protestant Church.
Satan divides!
JESUS UNITES!
---Nicole on 5/1/08


Nicole_Sorry, But, That didn't work for me!(book & Verse)
If you want to pray to the Dead, Go 4 it.
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 5/1/08


Nicole,

The book you quote isn't the Bible. The Bible is the source for God's Word for Christians. Christians aren't suppose to pray to the dead as that is a practice of the pagans and cults.
---Moderator on 5/1/08


What good does it do to pray for the dead? They are asleep in the Grave awaiting the resurrection.

1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
---Samuel on 5/1/08


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Let the dead bury its own dead is sufficient to tell you that there is no need to pray for the dead (Matt 8:22). Everything is too late after a person has died so while you are still alive on this earth, seek for the One True God, that's why Jesus said 'Follow Him' from that verse.
---Chance on 5/1/08


2 Maccabees 12:38-45 (in two parts) He (Judas Maccabees) took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to 2000 silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view, for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. verses 45 and 46 in next blog.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


Verse 45-46 of 2 Maccabees But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those wo had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.
Matthew 12:32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Two states of living being.)
---Nicole on 5/1/08


Revelation 21:27 but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any one who does abominable things or tells lies.Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Everyone here has lied,but are Saved in the Lamb's book of life. How do you explain this? Through Jesus' blood right.
Still not by one's own strenght, but by God's Mercy.Purgatory, it is logical to reason that a soul in the state of grace but with venial sin staining it must be cleansed of that sin before entering heaven.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


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Sacred Scripture only is dangerous. The Church under The Holy Spirit protects the Bible for all generations.
Some thought they were gods and could do with the Bible as they felt.
Revelation 22:18,I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book:if anyone adds to them,God will add to him the plagues described in this book,and if anyone takes AWAY FROM the words in this prophetic book,God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


DEAD? Revelation gives proofs of people in heaven and on earth.
People in heaven are speaking to God while some on earth. Rev 6:10-11 They cried out in a loud voice,"How long will it be,Holy and True Master,before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH?" Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


DDM, You are wrong. 2nd Maccabees 38-46. But, wait! You don't have this book in your Old Testament if you are Protestant. Why? Because Luther who was a RCC priest and left, lead you all wrong and got rid of 7 books of the Old Testament, leaving only 66 books in your Bible. Luther got rid of 1st and 2nd Maccabees because of the Verses of 38-45 which proves prayers for the dead.
You all almost lost James in the New Testament because it is against Faith Alone.
But, Thank God he was stopped.
---Nicole on 5/1/08


Nicole_Can you find one that Does? NO!

We know from Reading the Word of God,
That once your DEAD, It's up to the Little Books.
Only Jesus can Petition God, once one IS Dead!
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 4/30/08


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Bob::Thanks Guy.seems this was whisked of the air at an appropriate time.just to cover the corpse or put a lid on it .Here I never even suspected, but God has a way of revealing truth.Thanks for pointing it out .I try never to thinl ill of anyone so your intent whoever it may be FAILED MISERABLY.
---Emcee on 4/30/08


Jody, Frances008 or Anyone please ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Passage as Book in Bible, Chapter and Verse = Stating do not pray for the dead.

Is there a passage that states, do not pray for the dead? NO.
---Nicole on 4/30/08


Next someone will be asking if seances and ouija boards are okay for Christians. We are told not to dabble in the occult, which includes necromancy or speaking to the dead. Praying to the dead could be trying to contact them, or it is a form of idol worship, equally abominable to God, in fact probably worse.
---frances008 on 4/29/08


It is clear that we are taught to NOT seek communion with spirits of the dead, period. Only Jesus can hear our prayers. When you commune with Spirits, they are of Satan and referred to in the Bible as "familiar spirits". You accomplish NO GOOD THING by communicating with Satan and His Hosts. I caution you to be very careful.
---jody on 4/29/08


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If you want to make insults, use your own name.
Bob
Emcee, I don't believe you are dead in spirit, at all. In fact, I forgot how old you said you were, doesn't matter, but you are computer saavy, quite feisty, very much alive.
---Bob on 7/29/07


Wendell, are you forgetting that Jesus entered into a new covenant with is and promised us eternal life? Since we are all baptised into Christ, I refuse to believe that we fall out of Christ upon our physical death or that Jesus is half dead due to substantial membership in His mystical body has died.
---lorra8574 on 7/28/07


Kevin, how do you figure that? We do not pray to the dead to save us, but to ask them to pray for us, just as we are required in the scriptures to pray for one another and to ask others to pray for us. Asking someone to pray for you is what the Bible asks us to do, and it does not in any way diminish Christ's role in our salvation.
---lorra8574 on 7/28/07


Kevin::If you heeded Jesus' words "Be Perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect" would you then need the prayers of others? Your walk from Birth to death gives you that opportunity,he who strives gains.This is a fact of life Please dont be negative.
---Emcee on 7/28/07


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emcee, maybe it's because your dead in spirit. You need to be born again. Then you will never pray to or for the dead. Jesus came to give us life, and more abundantly at that.
---Bob on 7/28/07


Emcee- If you could pray for the dead, that would mean that our salvation depends on others and that would mean that Jesus came for nothing. Your wrong on this one, sir.
---Kevin on 7/28/07


Dory/lory- Thank you as well, we will meet in another blog am sure! God bless you...
---ruben on 7/5/05


Thank you for your reply, Ruben. I've enjoyed our discussion/debate. Maybe we'll meet again in another blog sometime. Blessings!
---DoryLory on 7/1/05


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Faith is a personal act the free response of the human person to the initiative of God who reveals himself. But faith is not an isolated act. No one can believe alone, just as no one can live alone. You have not given yourself faith as you have not given yourself life. The believer has received faith from others and should hand it on to others. Our love for Jesus and for our neighbor impels us to speak to others about our faith.
---ruben on 7/1/05


Hello to everyone, Let me make one thing very CLEAR, I believe in the BIBLE, everything that was written in it is true, inspired by GOD himself, do not add or subtract from them I myself carry a pocket bible of the New testament everywhere I go! What I do not believe is the BIBLE is sole authority of faith! For example In John 20: 30-31 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [His] disciples that are not written in this book. Are not these things that Jesus said and did not important?
---ruben on 7/1/05


I love Ruben, and I have talked to him many times and I was hoping that somehow he would just let go of his pride for his church just for a second, and allow The Holy Spirit to speak to his heart, but he is determined to stay right where he is at. He will argue any verse that is given, with determination because of his love for who he worships, and that is his church. He is still answering so let no one give up. The amount of help he could give to many in his church is awesome.
---Lupe2618 on 7/1/05


I am not sure that Ruben yet accepts the second meaning of the word "Word" ... all the things that God has told us, the Bible.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/1/05


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Pt 1
Ruben, if you're looking for the actual word "Bible" in the Bible, you won't find it because it isn't in there. The word "Bible" (which literally means "The Book" from the Greek "ta biblia,") was not used until the 5th century. (See Pt 2 - quote from Smith's Bible Dictionary.)
---DoryLory on 7/1/05


Pt 2
The following passage is titled "There Is Only One Good News" in my Bible (Good News means Gospel which is the teaching of the Bible.)

"I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God ... You are already following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who twist and change the truth concerning Christ. {cont'd ...}
---DoryLory on 7/1/05


Pt 3
Let God's curse fall on anyone, including myself, who preaches any other message than the one we told you about. Even if an angel comes from heaven and preaches any other message, let him be forever cursed. I will say it again: If anyone preaches any other gospel than the one you welcomed, let God's curse fall upon that person." (Galatians 1:6-10)
---DoryLory on 7/1/05




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