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Are Churches Keeping Us From God

Are you one of those who believe that some Christian Churches are shielding believers away from God instead of helping believers go nearer God?

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Listen to the words of all these scribes NO one is in agreement with their thoghts words sayings ,giving rise to dissention.Then they claim they are full of the Holy Spirit? Are you confused ?I should say Rather!!as each one expounds His or Her Theory, by their interpretation!!!.But what about GODS WAY does that count for anything.He created Universitality.and said "FOLLOW ME""Do we or do it our way.The answer lies within each of us according to His plan of "FOLLOW ME MY WAY"-Not yours.
---MIC on 8/17/08


The bible speaks of this over and over, and shows how very important it is, to not stand in the way, of anyone that God is trying to draw to himself. We have to constantly seek his guidance in all that we do, or we too, can be guilty of this.
---gayla on 8/17/08


Mark_V, going against the RCC is going against Christ.

Luke 10:16
He who hears you, hears me, He who rejects you, rejects me. And He who rejects me, rejects Him who sent Me.

I guess Jesus was serious, this is actually what He told Saul in Acts 9:1-6
Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the Lord's Disciples,...V 4 "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Who are you, sir? he asked. The voice answered, "I am Jesus the one you are persecuting.

You are trying to disconnect Jesus from His Church. You can not.

Matthew 16:18 on this rock I will build my Church.
He was speaking figuratively as well as Spiritually.
He is so Awesome.
---Nicole on 8/16/08


Nicole,
I'll say it one more time. It is not about religion, it's rules, or it's traditions. It's all about, and only about, an individuals BELIEF and FAITH in Jesus Christ. The truth that is written from Genesis to Revelation. This is what my bible tells me.
---Ken on 8/15/08


Nicole, I don't expect anything less from you about Luther. You say he was going against Christ but he was really going against the RCC who was making a mockery of the Word of God which really makes you angry because the RCC represents all that you believe in. He was not the only one opposing the Church, there was many others. You say, there was evil man within your Church, yes there was many and I am not talking about Luther but all those who profited from the abuses of the Church popes and leaders, and that is the reason why they are not infallible. The popes say mass with Peter's trunk beneath their feet. And if he woke up he would be shocked at what the RCC has become. Nothing in comparison to the way Christ lived, died or preached.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/08




The answer is simply "NO". We keep our selves from God.
1. Not using common sense. 2. Failure to believe the simplicity of the Truth in Scripture. 3. Allowing other's to interpret God's Truth to us, when He says that to each is given a measure of faith. God can be so easily reached through an honest and searching heart focused on Him. He will reveal Himself. Jesus said,"Knock and it will be opened, seek and you will find". If a person places too much emphasis and reliance on another man to interpret the things of God, they run the risk of distortion. That is why we are to have a one on one personal relationship.
---Robert on 8/14/08


Nicole,
When Martin Luther introduced the Reformation and his new version of Christianity, he was hoping the Jews would follow him in his assault against the Roman Catholic Church. The Jews did'nt follow him and he turned against them in a vulgar vengeance of anti-Semitism which later influenced Hitler in his murderous rampage against the Jews. Martin Luther was a horrible blot on Christianity and should be placed in history alondside Adolph himself.
---Kenny on 8/14/08


Mark_V. GREAT!, I am sorry for calling Luther your leader.
No arguements about evil men in the RCC throughtout history.

Luther sin was not confronting the evil abuses of Sherperds, but of breaking up the Church!
Evil men in Jesus' time.
What did Jesus command reguarding them?

Matthew 23:1-3
Jesus told the crowds and His Disciples:The scribes and the Pharisees have succeded Moses as TEACHERS, there, DO EVERYTHING AND OBSERVE EVERYTHING They tell you. But do not follow their example.

He is God. Luther is a Man. Yet he thought he knew better than Jesus! Luther became Disobedient.

Luke 10:16 He who hears you, hears me. He who rejects you, rejects me.

How many souls did Luther manage to reject Jesus?
---Nicole on 8/14/08


MarkV, If the Moderator release my blog, I have answered your question.

Now if you would be so kind, answer the question about the 10 Commandments.

Why Luther expanded #1 to make another #1 into #2?
Moving the other Commandments up a number and forcing to combine #9 and #10 as in Deuteronomy.

But, remember as a Catholic, Luther learned the 10 Commandments as I did from Exodus 20 which is before Deuteronomy.
So, Luther decided to find another why to teach the 10.

Also, saying You shall not have other gods besides me states no carve idols and the rest. If he wanted to expand, then why he only took some of the passage of V 2-6.
Expanded the whole thing in # 1.

Why go to # 2? The topic hasn't changed?
---Nicole on 8/14/08


Another reason is that such groups are really not Protestant either. Your assertion is that every denomination or group that does not recognize Rome is Protestant is false.
---Lee1538 on 8/14/08

This is true. But, I am only going by generalized terms.

Why can many Protestant Pastors preach at each other's Church?

Because most of them believe the same or have the same common dislike for the RCC.

But you are acting as if I am the one starting this topic.
I was answering you.

You ignore the fact that one can have individual convictions but be much in agreement from a theological standpoint.
---Lee1538 on 8/13/08

---Nicole on 8/14/08




Lee1538,
Saul was knocked down by the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Jesus. Acts 9:1-18, V 5 "I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting. Get up and go into the city, where YOU WILL BE TOLD WHAT TO DO."

Jesus didn't even brother to tell him what to do. No, He sent him to the city where Ananias was to instruct Paul. V 10-16.

Jesus had to yelled at Ananias to see Paul.

Sounds familiar? Jesus choosing the Church to teach and lead others to Himself.

John 13:20 "I solemnly assure you, he who accepts ANYONE I send accepts ME, and in accepting Me accepts Him who sent me."

LUke 10:16 "He who hears you, hears ME. He who rejects you, rejects ME. And He who rejects Me, rejects Him who sent Me."
---Nicole on 8/14/08


*But, will a Baptist Preacher allow a RC's Priest to preach and have Mass with bread and wine in his Church?

NO!!!!

Nor will you see a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness pastor in the pulpit of a Christian church either. Why? because the doctrine is not exactly what one would call Biblical.

Another reason is that such groups are really not Protestant either. Your assertion is that every denomination or group that does not recognize Rome is Protestant is false.
---Lee1538 on 8/14/08


a Lutheran minister preside over a Methodist congregation? Or a Street preacher preside over any denominational church?
Yes I have seen a clergy of another denomination as a guest pastor in the pulpit.
You ignore the fact that one can have individual convictions but be much in agreement from a theological standpoint.
---Lee1538 on 8/13/08

No, I havn't.
Most Protestants can jump from one denomination to another.

But, will a Baptist Preacher allow a RC's Priest to preach and have Mass with bread and wine in his Church?

NO!!!!

They won't allow us just as much as we won't allow them.
We respect each others feelings.

Go ask a Southern Baptist Preacher if you don't believe me.
---Nicole on 8/13/08


Nicole, your math is corrupted. You want to speak doctrines with me lets take one at a time.
Luther is not my leader, Christ is my leader. Luther passion was the Word of God, who had the guts to stand against the Popes like Leo and friar Tetzel who took the cue from Sextus IV and Julius II, impossing indulgences so they could get rich. Tetzel was chosen by the RCC to preach indulgence in Germany. While Germany suffered from heavy taxes and paying of annates, tithes were imposed for the Crusades against the Turks that never materlized. They succeeded by threat of excommunication. A deacon guilty of murder could pay and be absolved for three hundred livres. A bunch of liar's and hypocrites, getting rich on the people.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/08


Acts 1:15-26 They then drew lots between the 2 men. The choice fell to Matthias, who was added to the 11 Apostles.

*If you can't see the Holy Spirit hand, and think they choose Matthias on their own.
I can't help you understand. Ask the Holy Spirit.

The hand of the Holy Spirit fell on Paul on his way to Damascus. He was the one chosen to carry the Apostolic message to the Gentile world, not someone the Apostles picked.

In the case of the election of popes, it is obvious that some devils were picked in view of the fact, that some were very despicable people and you cannot blame the Holy Spirit for that. One even died in bed with his mistress.

Basically most of those selections were politically oriented.
---Lee1538 on 8/13/08


Now who is looking out for the lady? Not Luther. He was a Catholic knowing Deut.---Nicole on 8/12/08

MarkV, who said you asked me. My question was asking if the RCC or Luther is looking out for the lady, not you.
I said Luther was a Catholic. I didn't forget.

He was a Catholic and a Priest (A).
He was taught as I.
#1 covers # 2.
Our # 2 is your # 3.
# 9 which only speaks of Wife. #10 speaks of Property. Luther was taught this. (B)

Luther left and now your leader.
NOW you learned and you have #1 extended to a # 2, not us.
Your # 9 and # 10 is mixed together, Our isn't.(C)

Luther an ex Catholic.
The logically answer is that Luther CHANGED the Commandments!

A + B = C.

Do the math.
---Nicole on 8/13/08


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Get a copy of Eamon Duffys Saints and Sinners---Lee1538

But Duffy is not infallible. His chapter on the Inquisition seems based more on English Protestant sources than on the current scholarly consensus(which tends to debunk many of the traditional stereotypes),but that quibble aside, Faith of Our Fathers is a worthy and challenging read.---Robin Bernhoft

You left out that Duffy left and returned to the RCC.

Bernhoft wrote it fairly. Follow his example.
He is letting you and I decide.

To merely state:
"He is regarded as a reputable Roman Catholic historian whose research is verifiable."
Leads some to believe this relates to all his works+ 100%.

Tell the whole Truth.
---Nicole on 8/13/08


Lee1538, I am not fighing for the best Historian. I can admit when I don't know something.
But, if I do know something to be True, it is hard for anyone to change my Mind.

Only the Holy Spirit through common sense, logic or a good knock down can.

Acts 1:15-26 They then drew lots between the 2 men. The choice fell to Matthias, who was added to the 11 Apostles.

If you can't see the Holy Spirit hand, and think they choose Matthias on their own.
I can't help you understand. Ask the Holy Spirit.

Jesus picked Judas.
He isn't Adam. He doesn't give excuses.
Jesus expected the blame.
No one had to lay on Him.

John 6:70
"Did I not choose the Twelve of you myself? Yet one of you is a devil.
---Nicole on 8/13/08


Nicole, Mark_V

Can one pray to Jesus in front of an idol or graven image? Say I was in Tibet and wanted to pray to Jesus, could I do it in one of their Buddhist temples?
---Lee1538 on 8/13/08


*Have you ever seen ... a Lutheran minister preside over a Methodist congregation? Or a Street preacher preside over any denominational church?

Yes I have seen a clergy of another denomination as a guest pastor in the pulpit.

There are seminaries that a clergy can acquire his ministry credentials and then become the pastor of a different denomination. My former pastor was a graduate of a Baptist seminary and served in an Evangelical Free Church, another was a graduate of Moody Bible Institute and was a Presbyterian minister.

You ignore the fact that one can have individual convictions but be much in agreement from a theological standpoint.
---Lee1538 on 8/13/08


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Nicole, I don't remember that I have ever asked you anything about you or your family, and how you treat your husband.
Second, you forgot Luther was Catholic following the teachings of the RCC. Third, you have not proven that the Ten commandments were changed by Luther. All you done is talk. Here is the difference which you say there is no difference, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anythiing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, etc.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/08


It is to the benefit of the RCC to remove the Second Commandment in order to continue to worship, bow down, give reverance and Devotion to the saints and Mary. By taking the Second commandment out they suppose that the first should mean the same thing. "You shall have no other god before Me." But God wanted to make it clear to the people that the first was who they had as God, and the Second, what they made with their human hands and use to worship, and the reason why they should not.
"But showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments" Seems to me that those who love Him should not be doing what the RCC is doing. That is pretty clear no matter how many excuses you have.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/08


Mark_V: "But I believe that many denomination agree on... essentials of the Christian faith. They might disagree on some smaller issues but the essential they will not compromise."

Even the Buddhist, the Hindu's, the Wicca's have the same "essentials" of the Christian faith (but not the same doctrine). There is no harmony among all denominations. Christians bicker about who is better saying, "my church is better than yours." Have you ever seen an RRC priest preside over a Lutheran congregation? Or a Lutheran minister preside over a Methodist congregation? Or a Street preacher preside over any denominational church? Why not? Do they not have all the same essentials? Do you beieve in ecumenism?
---Steveng on 8/12/08


*When Pope Paul VI died 1978, it wasn't Pope John Paul II that was elected. No, there was a Pope between the two.
Pope John Paul (1st) in office 33 days.

Do you suppose they will ever find out who murdered that guy?

We read in History of the Popes that the political battles over who would be the pope often ended in the murder of the various contenders for that office.

You may not know it but the Holy Spirit does not condone murder.
---Lee1538 on 8/12/08


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Nicole- I fail to see your point regarding church politics and the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit.

If the church nominated 2 people for some office or function, there is virtually no guarantee that either selectee really qualifies. In which case, either Larry, Moe or Curly would end of in the office.

Again, you assume too much when a church makes a selection. In fact, if you really knew church history, ecclesiastical offices have often been filled with the most despicable people imaginable. And I would not lay the blame at the feet of the Lord's Spirit.

Get a copy of Eamon Duffys Saints & Sinners - A history of the Popes. He is regarded as a reputable Roman Catholic historian whose research is verifiable.
---Lee1538 on 8/12/08


MarkV, why make a # 2 if, # 1 covers both 1 and 2? Have no gods before me means No gods beside God the Fathers. This includes graven imagnes, money, anything.

Luther couldn't make 11 out of 10 that is clearly numbered, so by tricking to allow His extending # 1, he used Exodus 20:17 to teach you all your Commandments.He combined # 9 and # 10.

MarkV, I found your answer for you. Exodus 20:17, that has wife behind house.
Luther indeed was a smart man.

Unlike Luther RCC always used both, but taught us using Deuteronomy 5:21
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
You shall not DESIRE your neighbor's house or field nor...

Now who is looking out for the lady?

Not Luther. He was a Catholic knowing Deut.
---Nicole on 8/12/08


The Holy Spirit does not always participate in church politics.--Lee1538

Jesus states the opposite.
John 14:16-17 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of Truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with U, and will be in YOU.

Maybe you are part of this world not seeing the Holy Spirit?

What vanishing? You and I are speaking of Matthias 2000 yrs later.

Jesus is speaking to the Apostles!

When Pope Paul VI died 1978, it wasn't Pope John Paul II that was elected. No, there was a Pope between the two.
Pope John Paul (1st) in office 33 days.

The Holy Spirit seems in Charge to me.
---Nicole on 8/11/08


In the case where Judas had to be replaced they prayed and cast lots and got Matthias as they felt the need to have 12 apostles but this man vanished from the pages of history.


Acts 1:23f And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed to God to show which one of these two God would chose take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place. And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

The Holy Spirit does not always participate in church politics. So if the selection for a pope is Larry, Moe, & Curly praying will certianly yield a vote for one of them.
---Lee1538 on 8/10/08


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Well said Mark. Your points are the same as made by an ex-RC friend of mine.

It is always my prayer that people may see the truth, the one truth, and begin to worship the Biblical Jesus, not any organization, with its rules and traditions.
---Warwick on 8/11/08


MarkV, did you forget our posts of the 10 commandents between AlanUK and I?

AlanUK posted your version of the 10. I posted the RCC's 10

I proved it was Luther who expanded the 1st Commandment into two Commandments. Your 1 and 2 is the same thing!

Then Luther combines your 9 and 10 together as #10.
Except he puts wife behind house in your #10.

I never received an answer? Why, Mark do you have wife behind property?

Not having other gods before me is the same thing as no idol worship in English and Spanish. We never removed it!

Luther thinks little of women.
The RCC follows God's thinking of women. They are more important than property.

Answer, MarkV, please do not ignore this question.
---Nicole on 8/8/08


Nicole, my question was from facts.
---Mark_V. on 8/8/08

This the problem!
Only you know these facts.
You refuse to tell us these facts of yours.

I beg, plead, quest and answer your questions in hopes you will start to answer my questions.

I will admit you have started answering the questions.
Thank you.

P.S.
Nana and I do love you.
---Nicole on 8/8/08


Nicole, my question was from facts. No other Christian denomination has removed the Second commandment of worhsipping idols. And since I was a Catholic myself and witnessed the praying of many to saints and Mary, which I myself did through tradition, and also by the answers you and others give concerning who is infallible, the question I ask was legit.
Now you might argue back that it's not true, but you did not witness or refuse to admit it is allowed by the RCC and since they removed the second commandment from the face of the earth, and the RCC gives reasons why they do by giving Rev. 5:8 as one of the excuses why they pray to saints, and since they removed Christ as the Rock, and you did too, the evidence is overwhelming. That is why.
---Mark_V. on 8/8/08


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Mark_V:

Thank you.

Our purpose here should be for learning and teaching and edification, not petty squabbling, or proving who is more right, or who is more holy, or who is better in any way. If we occasionally step on people's toes, it should be the exception rather than the rule.
---StrongAxe on 8/8/08


Thank you Strongaxe, I might at some point say something without knowing to someone, but that is not why I am here. You also have done great in your answers. I know we will never agree on every little thing, that is for sure, but at least our purpose is to defend the gospel of Christ, to the best of our abilities. Nothing can be more rewarding to me. It is my passion to learn who God is each day. Blessings to you.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/08


Steven, I have not seen one Christian do greater things then Christ. We might be capable of witnessing to more people through His Word, more then He did while here, but never to the extend to what He did. I know by your writings you are against denomination, or Churches. But Scripture clearly teaches for the brothers and sisters in Christ to gather together. That is biblical. Of course there are many bad mega churches, who if Christ showed up and knocked on their door as He stated to the Laodicean Church, he would not find one to open the door. But I believe that many denomination agree on what is called the essentials of the Christian faith. They might disagree on some smaller issues but the essential they will not compromise.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/08


MarkV, I forgot my Spanish, only English.
I was telling Rhonda how we select the next succession of Pope, by praying.

men choose the rcc succession by casting votes---Rhonda

You jumped into the conversation.

RCC prayes and then vote, the question is to whom do they pray to? Since they pray to Mary, the sain't--MarkV 7/25

I am asking you why did you say this? We were alive during the last Prayers for Succession, Pope JPII died. The RCC prayed and voted for the next Pope. The Holy Spirit directed them to select Pope Benedict XVI.

It is you Mark who claims we pray to Mary and the saint and saying our voting is invalid. Why?
Who states we prayed to them instead of the Holy Spirit for the Selection of Pope?
---Nicole on 8/7/08


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Mark_V:

While there are a few people on these blogs whom I might categorize as rude (argumentative, contentious, insulting, accusatory, etc.), I don't recall ever seeing you being rude here (or anywhere else). :)
---StrongAxe on 8/7/08


All denominational churches (RCC, Baptist, Methodist, Lutherans, Adventists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Anglicans, JWs, Mormons, etc.) are the creation of Satan. They all bicker like children agruing whose father is better. Where is the harmony and "in one thought" among these denominations? Even they bicker within each denomination. Churches today create superficial Christians, being only hearers of the Word and not practising what they hear. How many "Christians" in your church actually go out and perform greater miracles than Jesus? Research "one another" and "each other" in an online Bible? How many people in your church do these things?
---Steveng on 8/6/08


Nicole, I think you better go and read my post again. Again you are to fast to answer and forget or not that I never mentioned the death of Pope Paul, his funeral, his death, or the election of Benedict, or any other. So your question is invalid.
"RCC prays and then vote, the question is to whom do they pray to?" That is a question Nicole. Had no mention of Paul's death, or the arrival of Benedict. Since you know I am a latino now, and you say you are, maybe you can understand it better that way. I did attend a spanish speaking church for five years. "Cristo me libetor de la iglesia Catolica y sus santos, gloria a Jesus por su obra en mi vida"
---Mark_V. on 8/6/08


I don't know if the questioner had in mind the RCC or any church including protestant.
I believe churches often do keep people from God, but it's probably not planned that way. Most believers can tell in detail what their pastor or some TV preacher has to say on any given topic, but not what Scripture says. Even on these blogs, we often hear that "the Bible says that..." But it's not an exact quote, sometimes not even close, and sometimes it is frankly misleading.

A church that teaches believers to find and understand answers from Scripture, will help a person draw near to God

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
---Donna66 on 8/5/08


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Alan, I hope I have answered you kindly. I am glad you are not a modertor because if you were, I would have to be careful what to agree on when they answer. My mistake to think that many times you are really talking to me but not saying so. I made a mistake.

Strongaxe, sometimes when someone answers, they have about ten questions or put down five or more passages. It is hard with the space we have to answer all of them and many stay lost. I have to first read the context of each passage given every time to find the Truth first before I answer. I am sorry about forgetting the question Alan was talking about. I didn't answer first cause it wasn't me. I don't think I was rude.
---Mark_V. on 8/4/08


I gave my explanation. Does that meet your specifications?---MarkV.8/1

No. Why are you answering Alan? He told you it is I asking.

And the voting situation is Biblical.
RCC prays and then they vote. Acts 1:15-26..Then they prayed,..Matthias, and he was counted with the 11 apostles.
--Nicole7/23

RCC prayes and then vote, the question is to
whom do they pray to? Since they pray to Mary, the sain't. So that process is invalid.
--MarkV.7/25

Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John Paul II died, and Benedict XVI was elected? Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?
--Nicole 7/26

Remember now?
Please answer me not Alan.
---Nicole on 8/4/08


Mark_V and alan_of_UK:

All Christians are supposed to be brothers, and accountable to each other, so we all have the right to ask each other to justify our words and our actions.

This would not necessarily apply to other online communities (depending on the bases for their existence), but it should be true for Christian communities, online and otherwise.
---StrongAxe on 8/3/08


Mark ... "I have noticed that the moderators don't answer questions as they use to". I think that is good, since it stops the impression there is a 'party line'
"I also know that many can be speakers for the website" I did not know that
"The way you keep asking questions ... " I am not moderating, just asking an honest question, or voicing honest disagreement
"Even when you don't ask me by name, I know you are speaking to me. It is obvious" . Sorry, but you are mistaken.

---alan_of_UK on 8/3/08


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Nicole, you said to show the whole data, space will not allow everything that was said. I have to give pieces of it which is true they said it. Whether they cover it up later does not change the fact they did say it. If they are changing them, then what was said was a lie to began with. This happens on issues of faith. Just look at the articles of faith, While #66 explains that there is no more New Revelation since it is the New and definitive Covenant which will never pass away, #67 state that "Pivate revelation" is allowed by the authority of the Church. They say it's to help the Christian but also its intend is that they can add anything they feel is necessary. New revelation. They try to cover both bases. But only one is True.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/08


Alan, I have noticed that the moderators don't answer questions as they use to. I also know that many can be speakers for the website. The way you keep asking questions, which seems to me like you are moderating me, making sure I don't miss something or other, like a test. Even when you don't ask me by name, I know you are speaking to me. It is obvious. Well, I hope I answered you correctly. I will do my best to be more kindly when I answer.
---Mark_V. on 8/1/08


Mark V

You know I am not a moderator!! But sometimes when others ask questions, I would like for my own education to see the answer. Is there anything wrong in that?

On 25 July, Nicole asked you, Mark,

"Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Benedict XVI was elected?
the election.

Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?"

Presumably you don't know & I accept that.
---alan_of_UK on 8/1/08


Alan, who are you? are you a moderator of me? Are you asigned to control all my answers? When I give you an honest answer from Scripture on any subject you come back with remarks and no Scripture. What's up with your actions Alan?


Let me make myself clear again Alan, the question was, "Please tell me who stated that they pray to Mary or the saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Bendict XVI was elected?" I didn't see anyone mentioning Paul or Benedict in their response. If you are speaking about me, I am not specific, when and to whom and at what time. I said, "RCC prays and then vote, the question is to whom do they pray to?" and I gave my explanation. Does that meet your specifications?
---Mark_V. on 8/1/08


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Mark V ... The questions you have not answered are these: from Nicola:

"Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Benedict XVI was elected?

Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?"

You refer to 7/20. but it was Nicole not I who asked who you were fighting.
---alan_of_UK on 7/31/08


Alan, I will answer you concerning blog 7/20. "Who are you fighting anyway?" I am not fighting against any individual. I am defending the Truth of the Gospel. In doing so many times doctrines that have been changed by an institution have to be explained. Nicole gave no passages for me to answer on her opinion as a Catholic. I love Nicole very much as I do everyone else even though many try to hurt me as an individual with words. That is ok since it only gives me more of an incentive to continue to study to be approve by God. My intention from my heart is to bring Truth. God has given us a brain, the Holy Spirit to guide us and many means to find out who God really is. We have have to have a need in our heart to do that.
---Mark_V. on 7/31/08


Mark V & Frances ... There is much which is incorrect in RC doctrine & practice, but sometimes arguments are put in an unhelpful way.

Mark, whilst I agree with all you say in yours of 7/20, you have still fnot answered Nicole's specific questions. This appears to show you have no answer, and so reduces the credibility of whatever else you say.

Frances ... You refer to worship at "a Black Madonna's shrine" Of course, it is unecessary to have shrines to the Madonna, or to worship at any of them, but why do you mention this shrine in particular? Are you trying to imply some satanic link? If so, research the reason for the shrine being so-named. It's all there on the web
---alan_of_UK on 7/31/08


MarkV, You pulled out one statement.
Read the rest-..The Bull, a careful distinction is made between the fundamental principles concerning the Roman primacy and the declarations as to the application of these to the secular power and its representatives. Consequently, when King Philip protested, Clement V was able, in his Brief "Meruit", of 1 February, 1306, to declare that the French king and France were to suffer no disadvantage on account of the Bull "Unam Sanctam", and that the issuing of this Bull had not made them subject to the authority of the Roman Church in any other manner than formerly. In this way, Clement V was able to give France and its ruler a guarantee of security from the ecclesiastico-political.
---Nicole on 7/30/08


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catechisms changed the Ten Comandments.---Mark_V.

1st time you asked a question about a Bull. I answered, if they post it. You are getting me confused with someone else. I answer all questions. Not Scott and you.

My complaint is false statements without data attach.

The bull of Unam Sanctam is the 1st. But, you only pulled out one part. That bull was a dispute between the Franch King and the Pope. Then, you left out the next Pope solving the dispute.

This is what upsets me. Tell the whole data, not parts.

We have the same Commandments.
Remember, we have the Original OT.
Luther took another OT from a different Jewish Sect.
Only 2 #'s are swapped, but still the same. So, you changed not the RCC.
---Nicole on 7/30/08


I was told that there was a new Rosary that could be said 'The Mysteries of the Light' or some such title. This came in during JP 2's reign.---frances008

Frances, you speak again and twisted everything with additions of your own.

Not a new Rosary, but a Mystery making 4 types of Mysteries.
Mysteries of Light is The 3 years of Jesus' Mission.

5:Baptism of Jesus, Wedding of Cana, Proclaimation of the Kingdom of Heaven, Transfiguration, Last Supper- Eucharist.
All Biblical.

Remember, the Rosary is a rope prayers said as you mediate on the Mystery of the NT.

Yes, Pope John Paul II did declare these 5 Mysteries of Light. Because Jesus is the Light. No one else, His mind was not affected, only his body.
---Nicole on 7/30/08


Frances008, JPII physically sick, not mentally. Elected 1978, shot 1981, sick 1995, died 2005, 10yrs out of 26 yrs, not most of his life.

His said once to someone asking him why he didn't step down due to his illness:
"Because I run the Church with my head, not my legs."

Benedict XV1's(Ratzinger) career, he was responsible for advising JP2,Vatican that deals with doctrine.-Frances

No, he was over the department of Faith and Moral Doctrines. He was in charged.

He wasn't advising JP2.
JP2 was going over Ratzinger's work, before JP2 approved them.
JP2 had to stamp his approval on all Doctrines.
He was the Pope you know.

Ratzinger wasn't 2nd in command, Cardinal Giovanni Villot was.
---Nicole on 7/30/08


Nicole You give what you think is correct. The worship of idols is the reason why the catechisms changed the Ten Comandments. You didn't answer the question because you know they do. You also mention that what we write in not in your catechism's but you have not responded to what the pope's in their bulls consider what they believe are articles of faith for the RCC and others when none of it is in Scripture. Just take "Unam Sanctam" We declare, announce and define that it is altogether necessary for salvation for every creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff" That is not in Scripture. We are saved by grace through faith, how can the Pontiff save us by being subject to him? He is not the Holy Spirit who brings Truth.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/08


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Let us take 2002 as an example. I was told that there was a new Rosary that could be said 'The Mysteries of the Light' or some such title. This came in during JP 2's reign. While JP2 suffered from Parkinson's much of his life, even if he was fit and well, he could only do and say, and publish that which was agreed on by his superiors/advisors. If you look at Benedict XV1's career, he was responsible for advising JP2, and for the part of the Vatican that deals with doctrine. So you cannot pretend that Benedict XV1 was not connected to what went on beforehand. JP2's first action on being appointed was to worship at a Black Madonna Shrine. He went on to 'appoint' or 'be advised' by Ratzinger who went on to become pope.
---frances008 on 7/29/08


Nicole ... I wonder when you will get a specific answer to your questions?

"Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Benedict XVI was elected?

Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?"
---alan_of_UK on 7/28/08

Me too. I am still waiting, but no one will tell me.

They claim we do this and that, but no data to back them up.

Please tell me someone. Answer the questions.

Did the Cardinals pray to some other being to selection Benedict XVI as Pope?

Where did you get this information if you come up with other being besides the Holy Spirit?
---Nicole on 7/28/08


Nicole ... I wonder when you will get a specific answer to your questions?

"Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Benedict XVI was elected?

Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?"
---alan_of_UK on 7/28/08


You have all kinds of excuses and reasons why it is not worship.Your own website gives reasons why it is ok since they hear our prayers and take the prayers to God by giving Rev.5:8.---Mark_V.

Thank you for admitting that you don't care what we tell you. You will continue to say whatever you wish to say. You said it like a Man! Good for you!

Not Rev 5:8, it's Rev 6:9-11. An excuse or proof?

Showing that people are in Heaven alive talking to God while people are alive on earth still fighting the good fight.

No need to go to your friend's house. My house has nice 'shrine'(as you put it) of my favorite Saints and Of course Mary.

Old? No longer friends?

Mary,the Saints and I worship God alone!
---Nicole on 7/28/08


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Nicole, another clue, Can you explain why the Catholic church in their catechisms don't put down the second commandment as stated in Scripture and put the third second the fourth third and so on until they got to ten and they added to what 9 was and split it in half. Here is the original part of the Second as in Scripture Ex. 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image-any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them nor-serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..."
---Mark_V. on 7/28/08


**
I am sure just as U reject Matthew 16:13-19. U will reject Acts as well
**

beliefs and misunderstandings from religious systems ...submitting minds wills to a flesh and blood man following men

I understand Christ is the Rock whom I serve

...I follow Christ in Matt 16:13-19

time and again rcc all wildly claims no praying to Mary yet as many have already stated and rcc's writings show they do pray to mary

either U ALL are lying ....or so heavily brainwashed into professing you don't worship her at the same time you are taught to worship her ...which makes this more cult like and disturbing

...or you simply just can't read the very words of your religiious system by catechism you follow
---Rhonda on 7/28/08


Nicole, it doesn't matter how much all of you want to deny it, but the RCC are idol worshippers. You have all kinds of excuses and all kinds of reasons why it is not worship. I have heard them all and I have myself done it as a former Catholic. Denials do not change the fact. All I have to do is take you to my old friends houses and you will see the shrines for those saints. Remember your own website gives reasons why it is ok since they hear our prayers and take the prayers to God by giving Rev. 5:8. If they absolutely didn't worship idols or sainst or Mary, they would not have an excuse, they would not give any passages.
---Mark_V. on 7/28/08


The greatest enemy keeping people from getting close to God is themselves. Paul said in Romans chapter 8, verses 35-39 that "nothing shall separate him from the love of God" after naming even the efforts of principalities and powers. It is up to us to "draw nigh to God and he'll draw nigh to us" as the Word of God says in James chapter 4, verse 8. Revelation chapter 3, verse 20 shows how the Lord will "sup" with us. When we assemble ourselves together as we are warned not to neglect to do in Hebrews chapter 10 verse 25 and worship the Lord, noone can prevent us from His closeness.
---theresa on 7/26/08


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RCC prayes and then vote, the question is to whom do they pray to? Since they pray to Mary, the sain't and believe by their own website that they hear the prayers. So that process is invalid.---Mark_V.Do you see yourself? Now who is starting an arguement?

Please tell me who stated that they prayed to Mary or the Saints after Pope John PaulII died, and Benedict XVI was elected?

It was on the news everyday during the whole process. All major channels spoke about the election.

Which one stated that prayers were going to others instead of the Holy Spirit?

Please do not lie on us. It isn't nice.

Back up your words with data or just don't do speak on the matter.
---Nicole on 7/26/08


If someone has objections to successors being chosen by a vote (and a unanimous one at that), how would they feel about a successor being chosen by casting lots?

Yet this is exactly what happened in Acts 1:16-26 when Matthias was chosen to replace Judas.
---StrongAxe on 7/25/08


RCC prayes and then vote, the question is to whom do they pray to? Since they pray to Mary, the sain't and believe by their own website that they hear the prayers. So that process is invalid. They need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ by faith in Him and Him along not only as Savior but also as Lord of their lives and as their provider of all things.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/08


men choose the rcc succession by casting votes ..this is the tradition they have carried on through the ages
Christ chooses whom He will work with...Christ is most capable of choosing His successor he doesn't need a man to do it for Him ..Christ does not force anyone to follow HIM---Rhonda

You are right. Christ chose Peter. So why are you upset?

And the voting situation is Biblical.

RCC prays and then they vote.

Acts 1:15-26..Then they prayed,...Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the 11 apostles.

I am sure just as U reject Matthew 16:13-19. U will reject Acts as well.

As you said, Christ doesn't force no one to follow Him.
He will not force you.
---Nicole on 7/23/08


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**
How do you think things are past down to the next generation.
**

men choose the rcc succession by casting votes ...this is the tradition they have carried on through the ages

Christ chooses whom He will work with ...Christ is most capable of choosing His successor he doesn't need a man to do it for Him ...which is why Christ flock is a LITTLE Flock not a powerful relgious system of this world ...remember Christ will destroy all governments of this world when He returns to rule Gods Kingdom on Earth

the succession that has come through the rcc has been filled with more than 50 million deaths in their way of FORCING their subjects in the dark ages to worship them

Christ does not force anyone to follow HIM
---Rhonda on 7/23/08


Not only is the RCC taking its own flock away from God, by encouraging the idol worship of the Pope, but they also are determined that the whole world should recognize the Pope as the head of the Universal Church. When the abomination that causes desolations sets up in Jerusalem, we will know he is the Antichrist.
---frances008 on 7/23/08


Succession, A pontiff, more than any other leader is a prisoner of the past. He can never speak without taking into account of what his predeccessors have said on the same or related topics. A past long dead, often called tradition, dictates the roads into the future. One dead pope is more powerful than a thousand living bishops. He has to be careful not to contradict a pontiff of seven or ten centuries ago. That history has been good and bad, full of heroric deeds and serious crimes. The pontiff is a prisoner even of those crimes. He knows the church was responsible for persecuting Jews, for the Inquesition, for slaughtering heretics by the thousands, for introuducing torture into Europe as part of the judical process.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/08


Nicole, you are correct, you can go back two thousand years with succession. As you said, "how do you think things were past down to the next generation" that is so true. The jesuit Cardianl Bellarmine was later to admit, "For some years before Luther and Calvin there was in the church almost no religion left. The papacy, he said, had almost eliminated Christianity." One Pope, Adrian VI confessed to the Diet of Nuremburg in 1522 that all evils in the church proceeded from the Roman Curia. He said "for many years abominable things have taken place in the Chair of Peter, abuses in spiritual matters, transgressions of the Commandments, so that everything here has been wickedly perverted."
---Mark_V. on 7/21/08


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Has nothing to do with Succession.---Mark_V.

You are too hung up on this word 'succession'.

Of course their has to be a succession.

How do you think things are past down to the next generation.

Royal families have succession of family members. They claim the throne by tracing backwards to other Kings and Queen as kinship.

Did you think that a man made succession as Royal families can do better than Jesus?

We are the oldest proof Succession in any other Country!. We can go back 2000 years.

So I guess Jesus's Words are true when He said not even the gates of the netherworld shall prevail against it.

You should be happy Jesus is in Charge.

Who are you fighting anyway?
---Nicole on 7/20/08


Alan, "What other reason could it be?" was my last question. Succession and what he said, "did you really think God's kingdom consisted of a small hut?" are two different topics altogether. "In my Fathers house are many mansions, if it were not so I would have told you. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.. " is refering to the apostles in the context of the message. Rather then succession, this describes His coming to gather His own who are alive and raise the bodies of those who died to take them all to heaven. Has nothing to do with Succession.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/08


Mark ... This is what Emcee wrote:
'He was Talking of a Dynasty and yet much bigger, involving not just 12 apostles. "MY father has many Mansions and I go to prepare a place for You "'

Do you really imagine that Emcee was referring to his own father, or priest? He is clearly quoting what Jesus said
---alan_of_UK on 7/17/08


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