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Are Catholics The Only Church

Are non catholics lost? Is the catholic church the only church? I was taught that the catholic church is the only true church, but I see some very nice people from other churches. What is the truth? Please help!

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Hello Kay:: so nice to see you again,believe it or not I looked out for you. Today I did and get the tail end of #3, but it is to Ruben so I back off just say Hello.
---Emcee on 5/3/08


Ruben,
(3) Throughout the Bible you will find God instructing different individuals to write down His words.
Examples:
Exodus 34:27-"And the Lord said unto Moses, WRITE thou these words.."
Jeremiah 30:2-"Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, WRITE thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee IN A BOOK."
Daniel 11:4-"But thou, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book.."
---Kay6588 on 5/2/08


I think there are lost people in every church. So we need to focus on the individual not the denomination/religion. Jesus said to make disciples not demoninations.
---jamin on 2/21/07


Jonny from SA::I was not talking about the question I said Georges POST,not the one you put in the ground but the ones posted here By George ok?
---Emcee on 2/1/07


Emcee I'm trying to say that I think you are thankful to the RCC because of your success in life, but that you may find a surprise behind the corner. How long since you don't read your Bible cover to cover? I mean from Genesis to Revelation?. Also, I would love it if you knew how the RCC is in SOuthAmerica. I was in it all my life until I read the Bible. I know now that Jesus alone suffices me for salvation regardless of membership. And I know the RCC crimes of past and present. Can't be a good tree.
---George on 2/1/07




there are churches of many religions like the catholics, and then there is the church founded upon the living and everlasting Rock.
---Eloy on 2/1/07


to a spiritually UNDISCERNED man the bible is foolisness ( the unsaved) cant not understand it.
NOT One ROman Catholic is saved, they can NOT discern the things of the SPIRIT when they are SPIRITUALY undiscerned
---Bev on 2/1/07


I find the blog question quite comprehensible. Is it incomprehensible that a persons church whether catholic or not is not the only church God is working with on the earth. There are more than a few being taught that. Is there one organization that is the only true church on earth?
---jhonny on 2/1/07


George :: Your post is incomprehensible,you will need to explain in order for others to understand & thanks for your reply.Peace be with You.
---Emcee on 2/1/07


Emcee. I see what great good th RCC did to you. Your wife. I see. You have my congratulations there. The RCC is leading RC americans very well. In America, its almost a protestant church. Just bigger, better organized, and better guided in the practical aspects of life. It infiltrates and destroys protestantism and gives you the solution: itslef. But remember success best friend failure, go back dusty bible, read cover to cover. go SouthAmerica, find surprise. many First will be last.
---George on 1/31/07




Kay-(No. But since we have no knowledge of what those other things were why fuss over a record that doesn't exist? )How do you know we have no knowledge of them, John said there is not a book in the world that can hold his words, you are trying to say it does not matter what Jesus said. Paul in Acts 20:35 "remembering Jesus words It is more Blessed to give than to received." which gospel recorded those words of Jesus.
---ruben on 1/28/07


K Dear ::I have never lied to you or where the seriousness of My Lord Jesus is concerned.Your ingesting of Jesus 12 years ago With the belief you have needs a new approach with an enlightened understanding & BELIEF.I say this with the sweet& tender Love He has asked us to share.
---Emcee on 1/28/07


kay-(Ruben, the Holy Spirit of God determined which books were to be placed together in one Book.) And where can I read where the Holy Spirit mentions which books belong in the book?
---ruben on 1/28/07


Kay-(Yes, Ruben, the Bible clearly tells US that, but no one told those particular Jews that Jesus was referring to His body. They were left thinking that He was referring to the actual temple) Yes, kay and like today most Jews still do not believe in the Messiah has come. what your point? The Holy Spirit felt it had to tell us it was his body and not the building, but in the John chapter 6 it need no explaining " My Flesh is real food and my blood is real drink"
---Ruben on 1/28/07


Kay-(Eating literal bread does not give eternal life. So eating a wafer cannot save your soul) If Jesus said "This bread is my flesh" than it does. "Whoever eat my flesh and drinks my blood has (eternal life)", so I think I will listen Jesus instead!
---Ruben on 1/28/07


Kay-(Ruben, I spiritually consumed Christ 12 years ago. He told me that if I believed on Him, I will have eternal life. ) Jesus himself said " whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life" just like you received him is the same way in the eating and drinking his blood, because Jesus said " My Flesh is true food and my Blood is true drink."
---Ruben on 1/28/07


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THE TRUTH is this: Catholics (not Roman catholics) are the only church. Catholic just means universal. Its undeniable that there is only ONE universal church of Jesus, formed of ALL THOSE who have Jesus as their ONLY Leader, Priest and Head. If you have the Pope as your Leader, or the president, or a pastor, then you are not in this universal church where Jesus is King and his messengers are there to serve you not to rule over you. "You will not have other gods before me," said JHWH.
---George on 1/27/07


Kay-Again, it was the RCC, for better or worse that formed the NT canon. I am not defending the RCC, only historical fact. It was RCC Bishop in 367AD that first suggested a 27 book NT. I can quote my sources. Until the forth century there were many books claiming to be inspired.

I am sure you wont bail on this.
---MikeM on 1/27/07


"The uninspired writing of man has been preserved better."

*augusta, not so, my dear, not so.***

Kay, we don't have the originals. Why would the Lord not leave them to us if they were to be our sole authority? Especially in light of the fact the Church had to decide which Scriptures floating around were inspired and which weren't. How were the bishops prior to the canonization of the bible able to determine correct doctrine without them?
---augusta on 1/25/07


"..yet the earliest copy of an inspired manuscript is a fourth century copy?"

According to????
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


You've got the originals, Tennessee???? :o


LOL!
---augusta on 1/25/07


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There are so many problems with sola scriptura. For example...

'Now when this epistle is read among you, see that it is read also in the church of the Laodiceans, and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.' (Col 4:16)

Why isn't this letter to the Laodiceans in the bible? Especially considering it was obviously important since Paul said to make sure they read it.
---augusta on 1/25/07


Jack ... again you go too far in your claims. Sorry!
Anglicans are divided on the issue. I suspect the majority do not believe in transubstantion.
---alanUKquent64534 on 1/25/07


"Kay, Jesus had already told them they had to believe in Him. If this is all He meant then why would He unnecessarily confuse and repulse them by adding eat 'My flesh drink my blood'?"

augusta, study John 6:1-65.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"If the doctrine of the Real presence is papal, as you say here. can you please tell us WHICH Pope first ordered people to believe this?"

Jack, I just love your choice of words; "which Pope first ORDERED people to believe this?" Interesting.
Anyway, your answer is, Pope Innocent III in 1215 made it an offical doctrine of the RCC.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


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"It was the Sacred Traditions authorized by God that gave us the Bible"

Ruben, the Sacred Traditions of the Roman Catholic church did NOT give us the Bible, and they are NOT authorized by God. The RCC's Sacred Traditions contradict the word of God. They are the creation of fallible ungodly men.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"Where in the Bible does it tell us which books belong in there, but yet you believe every book in there, why?"

Ruben, the Holy Spirit of God determined which books were to be placed together in one Book. Why do I believe every book in the Bible? Because those books contain the very words of my God and my God can be trusted. Can your pope be trusted?
If you can't trust the words of God, what can you trust?
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


Emcee, your Sacred Traditions aren't biblical. Jesus Christ didn't institute them and they aren't our "ticket" to Heaven. Our "ticket" to Heaven has already been paid for by the death and resurrection of Christ. You are adding man-made doctrines to God's plan of salvation. Please trust God's word and set aside the RCC's anti-biblical teachings. You cannot find salvation within them. I'm seriously worried about you, Emcee.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"My answer KD::The physical Bread & wine becomes the real spiritual& material BODY & Blood OF Jesus"

Emcee dear, the bread and wine don't become the literal body and blood of Christ. Thats a lie that you have been fed. I'm sorry, but its true.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


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"Kay, then why did God make no effort to preserve the original manuscripts?"

augusta, God inspired men to make copies, is that not good enough? The copies are just as good as the originals. God said in Psalm 12:6,7 "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. You shall keep them, O Lord, you shall preserve them from this generation FOREVER."
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"..yet the earliest copy of an inspired manuscript is a fourth century copy?"

According to????
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"If God wanted to preserve His word in writing He did a mighty poor job of it."

augusta, we're talking about the Almighty God. Ya know, the One who created the heavens and the earth in just 6 days. If He is powerful enough to create the universe AND sustain it, He is also powerful enough to inspire His word and preserve it.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


"The uninspired writing of man has been preserved better."

augusta, not so, my dear, not so.

"And why does scripture tell us to hold onto the traditions received orally?"

Paul was telling the Thessalonian church to retain or remember all that he had preached to them.

"Why did Paul tell Timothy to pass on what he heard from Paul orally?"

I need the scripture in order to answer this question.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


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"Kay, then why would he have included the part about holding on the oral teaching in his letters? lol"

augusta, again, Paul was telling the church at Thessalonia to retain or to keep in mind the words that he had preached to them.
---Kay6588 on 1/25/07


Kay: "The believers at Berea tested what Paul and Silas were telling them by searching the scriptures to make sure that what they were receiving was truth.*

Just because they searched the Scriptures doesn't mean it was the final authority. We know it wasn't because the Jews weren't sola scripturists. Also, the sages interpreted Scripture and had authority to teach.

con't
---augusta on 1/24/07


2. Remember what Jesus said about the scribes & Pharisees?

"The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do." (Mt 23:2-3)

Jesus Himself even uses Oral Tradition here; "Moses' seat" isn't in the OT.
---augusta on 1/24/07


* Kay: The Sacred Traditions contradict the Bible, therefore they aren't authorized by God.*

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 The 2:15

Notice Paul says here that Scripture (espistle) IS Tradition. All of the word is Tradition; the difference being some of it was written down and some wasn't.
---augua9846 on 1/24/07


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Kay: *Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.*

Kay, read the whole chapter carefully. Jesus isn't condemning Sacred Tradition; he's condemning the customs and disciplines that they were teaching as doctrine (eating w/ unwashed hands, washing pitchers, couches etc).

"This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

con't
---augusta on 1/24/07


2. Jesus said: "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down."

We know He wasn't speaking of Scared Tradition because that would contradict what Paul said: "Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you." 1 Co 11:2
---augusta on 1/24/07


Kay* Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.*

Kay, read the whole chapter carefully. Jesus isn't condemning Sacred Tradition; he's condemning the customs and disciplines that they were teaching as doctrine (eating w/ unwashed hands, washing pitchers, couches etc). He said: "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down."

con't
---augusta on 1/24/07


**augusta, its exactly what the Pope has told Catholics to do. Jesus said no such thing.**

Kay, this is what Orthodox believe, Copts believe, Armenians believe, Assyrians believe, Syrians believe, Syriani of India believe, as well as Lutherans and Anglicans--yet they have NOTHING to do with the pope.

If the doctrine of the Real presence is papal, as you say here. can you please tell us WHICH Pope first ordered people to believe this?

(Bet you can't!)
---Jack on 1/24/07


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The Catholic Church is considered the Church, however it is not the only way to salvation. Anyone who is a true Christian and believes that Jesus died to save them from their sins will be saved.
---Paul on 1/24/07


Kay-( The Sacred Traditions contradict the Bible, therefore they aren't authorized by God. )It was the Sacred Traditions authorized by God that gave us the Bible...Where in the Bible does it tell us which books belong in there, but yet you believe every book in there, why?
---Ruben on 1/24/07


"This is exactly what He told us to do, though. Just like Jesus has a human and divine nature, the bread He gives us is physical and spiritual."

augusta, its exactly what the Pope has told Catholics to do. Jesus said no such thing. The bread that Jesus gives is spiritual, not physical. Spiritual bread gives us eternal life. Can physical bread give eternal life? No.
---Kay6588 on 1/24/07


"But, Kay you're the one who believes it is and if it is the sole & final authority then it has to say so."

augusta, the Bible IS the final authority. An example of the Scriptures being used as the final authority can be found in Acts 17:11. The believers at Berea tested what Paul and Silas were telling them by searching the scriptures to make sure that what they were receiving was truth.
---Kay6588 on 1/24/07


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"Our position is that Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (both authoritative) makes up the whole word of God with the Church as the final authority."

augusta, any teaching that is contrary to the teachings of the prophets and apostles is NOT to be held as of equal authority with the Word of God. The Sacred Traditions contradict the Bible, therefore they aren't authorized by God.
"Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition."--Matt 15:6
---Kay6588 on 1/24/07


*You cannot physically eat spiritual bread. And you cannot spiritually eat physical bread.*

---Kay6588 on 1/23/07

This is exactly what He told us to do, though. Just like Jesus has a human and divine nature, the bread He gives us is physical and spiritual.
---augusta on 1/23/07


*I really wanted to know why she wants me to use the Bible to prove a point when she views the Bible as not being the final authority.*

---Kay

But, Kay you're the one who believes it is and if it is the sole & final authority then it has to say so. Our position is that Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (both authoritative) makes up the whole word of God with the Church as the final authority.
---augusta on 1/23/07


Kay Dear ::while what you say may be true yet you cannot deny that this is what Jesus said,as he also said "unless one be like a child one cannot enter heaven & Heaven is made up of ones such as these" .So You & I canot enter heaven!!The Sacraments Jesus instituted are HIS Loving Tools to enable us to reach that stage of Perfection & this is the ticket to Heaven.His love is never ending.
---Emcee on 1/23/07


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My answer KD::The physical Bread & wine becomes the real spiritual& material BODY & Blood OF Jesus;"He in you & you in Him"ONE--Provided you are in the state of grace & you believe,because HE SAID IT & it is TRUE.
---Emcee on 1/23/07


Ruben, the bread from Heaven that Jesus gave was spiritual bread, not literal. You cannot physically eat spiritual bread. And you cannot spiritually eat physical bread.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


They couldn't understand what Jesus was actually referring to, which was "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (John 6:40,47).
---Kay6588

But Kay, Peter already believed and he too had a hard time with what Jesus said.

Kay, I'm going to try to devote all my time to this blog. The other Catholic doctrines can't be understood until The Eucharist and the authority issue are. Here us out, OK? con't
---augusta on 1/23/07


"Kay-(Out of the two, which one was the TRUE source of (eternal) life) That is a question for you to answer not me?"

Ruben, I already know the answer. Do you? Why not give a simple answer? Which bread is the TRUE source of eternal life, the physical bread or the spiritual bread?

"You are having the same question they had"

No Ruben, I'm not. I've acknowledged what Jesus was actually saying. I don't have to ask foolish questions.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


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"You have walk away like the Dissciples did in John6:66.. "

Ruben, I spiritually consumed Christ 12 years ago. He told me that if I believed on Him, I will have eternal life. Twelve years later and I still have within me His eternal life. Unlike Catholics who think that eternal life is received by literally eating physical bread. But then that so called eternal life leaves them once it is digested and comes out as waste.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


"Kay, I find your reply to Augusta very harsh and un-deserving."

Caring, I wasn't trying to be harsh. I really wanted to know why she wants me to use the Bible to prove a point when she views the Bible as not being the final authority. I thought it was a bit strange.
---Kay on 1/23/07


"kay scripture clearly tells us he was talking about his body,"

Yes, Ruben, the Bible clearly tells US that, but no one told those particular Jews that Jesus was referring to His body. They were left thinking that He was referring to the actual temple.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


Ruben, this is your argument for Jesus wanting us to literally eat His flesh. You say since the Jews asked "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" and since you ASSUME that Jesus didn't correct them then Jesus must have been speaking literally. Well, some Jews asked a similar question regarding the temple being destroyed and Jesus didn't correct them. Does that mean Jesus was speaking literally?
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


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Ruben,
(2)Now, how could the word of God be preserved forever if it wasn't recorded in an authoritative book?
Kay6588**

Kay, then why did God make no effort to preserve the original manuscripts? Why is it we have copper scrolls of OT books produced by men before the birth of Christ or why do we have letters from Clement, Ignatius. Polycarp and many more early fathers, yet the earliest copy of an inspired manuscript is a fourth century copy?
---augusta on 1/23/07


2. If God wanted to preserve His word in writing He did a mighty poor job of it. The uninspired writing of man has been preserved better. And why does scripture tell us to hold onto the traditions received orally? Why did Paul tell Timothy to pass on what he heard from Paul orally?
---augua9846 on 1/23/07


Ruben, just because someone asks a question doesn't mean their question contains hidden truth.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


"Now on the eat my flesh, scriptures does not need to tell us what Jesus was saying does it?"

Ruben, not only does it tell us what Jesus was saying, but Jesus told those particular Jews what He was saying. BUT they were too spiritually dense to understand anything that He was saying. Their carnal thinking prevented them from understanding Jesus' spiritual message.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


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augua9846,
2 Thess 2:15 "...hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Paul delivered the Gospel first by word of mouth (preaching), and then by epistle (letters to the churches).**

Kay, then why would he have included the part about holding on the oral teaching in his letters? lol
---augusta on 1/23/07


Ruben, you're right. Jesus never changed His stance. From the very beginning of His message He made it clear that He was referring to believing on Him for everlasting life (Jn 6:28,29), not literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood. As a matter of fact, His message of believing on Him for everlasting life is the entire message of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. Your belief runs contrary to the Bibles message of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


Ruben, manna IS bread. "Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from Heaven to eat."
This bread from Heaven did not give them eternal life-- "Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead."
The bread from Heaven that was given to Moses and the Israelites was physical bread. Eating literal bread does not give eternal life. So eating a wafer cannot save your soul.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


Kay-(
Ruben, do you also believe that when Jesus said "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" that He was referring to the actual temple? ) kay scripture clearly tells us he was talking about his body, if the bible did not we would also be like them.Now on the eat my flesh, scriptures does not need to tell us what Jesus was saying does it?
---Ruben on 1/23/07


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Kay-(Why are you going by what a bunch of spiritually blind men believed?) because these men were there and Jesus (never) change his stance. Jews, disciples and the apostles believe in his words and the (Bible) also clearly said " My flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink." You some 2000 years later is going to tell me the bible is wrong and you are right..get real!
---ruben on 1/23/07


kay-(Ruben, Jesus was comparing the bread from Heaven during the time of Moses Out of the two, which one was the TRUE source of (eternal) life?) kay Jesus said " I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the (mana), in the desert, yet they died. I am the living bread that came down from heaven.If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever.This bread is (my flesh), which I will give to the world."
---Ruben on 1/23/07


Kay-(Out of the two, which one was the TRUE source of (eternal) life) That is a question for you to answer not me? You are having the same question they had " How can this man give us his flesh to eat." and "This is hard; who can understand it." You have walk away like the Dissciples did in John6:66..
---Ruben on 1/23/07


Obviously when it comes to the Bible, Roman Catholics interpret it to suit their own political agenda - namely to establish control or power over others.

In the bread & wine thing, they imply that they can control someone's salvation as only they can convert the elements into the actual body & blood of Christ from which if denied, one cannot be saved.
---lee on 1/23/07


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augua9846,
The letters (traditions taught by epistles) and sermons (traditions taught by word) from Paul to the early Christians, for example, are now books of the Bible. 1 Cor 11:2-"Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances (traditions), AS I DELIVERED THEM UNTO YOU."
"FOR I DELIVERED UNTO YOU first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to THE SCRIPTURES." -1 Corinthians 15:3
---Kay6588 on 1/22/07


"In other words, according to John 6, if you do NOT believe the bread and wine are truly the Body and Blood of Christ, you are NOT walking with Jesus."

Jack, not so. Those disciples did take Jesus literally and thats what their problem was. They assumed that Jesus was asking them to literally eat His flesh and drink His blood. They couldn't understand what Jesus was actually referring to, which was "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (John 6:40,47).
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


"If you do not believe his words, show me the symbolic in this verse?"

Ruben, that has already been explained. Its difficult to grasp the spiritual if you have a carnal understanding. Kind of like those disciples who couldn't understand what Jesus was actually saying or like the Jews who thought Jesus was referring to destroying the actual temple.
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


Why do you care what the Bible says? You reject the Bible as the sole authority!
---Kay6588

Kay, I find your reply to Augusta very harsh and un-deserving. History, including Biblical, is made of written and oral information. Don't throw out tradition completely out.
---Caring on 1/23/07


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"What are the other things Jesus did?"

Ruben, we don't know because those other things were NEVER recorded.

"Are you saying because they are not (recorded) it does not matter?"

No. But since we have no knowledge of what those other things were why fuss over a record that doesn't exist?
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


"Where in the NT does Jesus tell the Apostles to write everything down in a authorize book?"

Ruben,

(1) The Bible is authorized because it is the written Word of the living God. You can't get any more authorized than that!
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.."-2 Timothy 3:16
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


Ruben,
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation [origin], for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20,21
---Kay6588 on 1/23/07


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