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Christian By Words Or By Actions

Many friends and acquaintances profess to be Christian, yet they continue to smoke, drink, gamble and curse. How can this be?

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 ---Jim on 6/14/05
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If a person took the money they were gambling with and gave it to a person who needed it would be a good thing, But to waste money trying to profit at the expense of those others who have lost how is that like Jesus?

We are to be like Jesus aren't we?

A person buys a $500 bottle of wine for themselves and does not think of others how is that like Jesus?

The puritans used to say Earn all you can, Save all you can, Give to others all you can. Today most do not give to others they spend it on themselves.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/25/15


Drinking and Gambling are only sins if they become addictions or are done in an irresponsible manner. Having a glass of wine is not a sin, being a drunk(lifestyle) is a sin. Same with gambling. Playing for a little fun is nothing wrong, but when you become addicted and irresponsible, then it is sin. I guess smoking would probably go along the same lines but I have never known any smokers who were not addicted or smoking irresponsibly.
---Peter_Griffin on 1/24/15


Cluny gluttony is not just among Protestants but among most Americans period. We agree getting drunk is a sin.

If a person knows something is wrong and they are hurting themselves by it and putting forth a poor witness to others because of a lack of self control.

Is that a sin?
---Samuelbb7 on 1/22/15


StrongAxe, I agree completely.
---learner2 on 1/21/15


learner2:

You said: Most fats and sugars are poisonous too so we should not eat any meat or eat any ice cream, especially if eating them gives us pleasure.

Since the Bible expicitly permits the eating of meat, if you reach the opposite conclusion, then something about your initial premises must be flawed. Also, there is nothing in the Bible that says "anything that gives us pleasure is sin". This is a legalism typical of repressive Victorian attitudes.
---StrongAxe on 1/21/15




\\If the millions of dollars spent on alcohol were used to help the poor instead of leading people to not think and causing the deaths of thousands would that not be better?\\

Not everyone who drinks gets drunk.

OTOH, gluttony, called a sin in the Bible, is endemic among Protestants.

If you don't believe me, just go to any parish potluck.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/21/15


"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord" (Proverbs 16:33).

casting lots was not gambling.
---aka on 1/15/15

Good stuff. Had this thought but, never tied the Proverbs verse. Thanks.
---Trav on 1/19/15


True Lerner2 as far as it goes. But do not forget our actions will have physical and spiritual consequences.

By setting a bad example for others do we not demean what it means to be a Christian?

By encouraging that which may lead others into alcoholism and debauchery are we not damaging the cause of CHRIST?

If the millions of dollars spent on alcohol were used to help the poor instead of leading people to not think and causing the deaths of thousands would that not be better?
---Samuelbb7 on 1/19/15


It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man. - Matthew 15:11
---learner2 on 1/18/15


Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not, and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:15 So if what you eat hurts another Christian, you are no longer living by love. Don't destroy anyone by what you eat. Christ died for that person.(GW)
---aservant on 1/18/15




When a person is told tobacco is good for them and they keep on smoking I understand. When they are shown proof it is a slow acting poison and robs the mind of reason. I do not believe Christians will continue to use them.

Christians fail rise up and fail again. That does not show they are lost.

But one who lives in sin and does not repent even if that sin is pride and unforgiveness they are lost.

Read the LORD's prayer. If we do not forgive others we will not be forgiven.

Only GOD knows who is saved and lost. He is the Judge. We can only say something is wrong. That is all we can say.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/18/15


"How can this be?" Mind renewal is a process. What one may consider wrong for themselves, is not automatically wrong for another. In the words of Paul, "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any[thing]. All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak." 1Co 6:12>1Co 10:23>Rom 14:21
---josef on 1/18/15


Cluny...

"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord" (Proverbs 16:33).

casting lots was not gambling. Posting remarks that are so incredibly inaccurate just to promote Cluny is a huge gamble.
---aka on 1/15/15


The Bible doesn't mention tobacco either.
---learner2 on 1/15/15


Caspar ten Boom and Charles Spurgeon enjoyed cigars. Would any one doubt they were Christians?

Jesus drank wine at the Passover and other times. His first miracle was making several hundred gallons of it. And it was NOT unfermented grape juice, either.

St. Peter cursed. St. Paul was not above a salty expression or two. Were they Christians?

The place of Judas was filled by casting lots--in other words, by gambling.

Look to your own sins, not what you merely perceive to be the sins of others.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/15/15


The Bible never mentions Ice Cream ...
That does not compute logically.
Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/15/15

Scriptures below computes for me. Ice cream...doesn't bother my stomach like milk does for some reason. Had to almost give up Cap'n Crunch and Granola.
1Ti_5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and they defile the man.
---Trav on 1/15/15


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So learner2 your answer is to make a over the top statement and say that proves that Christians should not do drugs?

The Bible never mentions Ice Cream but it does speak of meat that is clean to eat.

Which is also why Christians argue about the drinking of wine.

But making yourself unable to properly think and put poisons that the label says this is a deadly poison on the package is the same as eating a scoop of Ice Cream.

That does not compute logically.

Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/15/15


Most fats and sugars are poisonous too so we should not eat any meat or eat any ice cream, especially if eating them gives us pleasure.
---learner2 on 1/14/15


When a person comes to JESUS they should have given up these sins already. If not they have not had good teachers.

Tobacco is a addictive poison and a form of narcotic.

Christians should not be killing themselves for pleasure.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 1/14/15


Rom 8:9 . . . Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

A Christian is one in whom Christ has placed His Spirit. That is the only yardstick.

If Christ accepts him to the extent that He gives him His Spirit, then his smoking, drinking, and gambling are cleansed by the Blood of Christ.


Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, keep my judgments, and do them.

His sins may continue for a few years, but he is still a saved Christian. Eventually the Spirit inside the man will nudge him away from his smoking, drinking, and gambling. This is one of the main reasons God has the Holy Spirit living inside us -- to bring us into sinless obedience.
---aservant on 1/13/15


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The people who continue to smoke, drink, gamble and curse are stumbling blocks to christians especially weak christians.
---Steveng on 1/12/15

Having done all the above agree that one should not offend his brothers...
Jas_3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Gambling is not in the Bible. Everyone has gambled, in one form or another, in business or out. Like you said... if it offends.
In strength Christ sought the sick not the well.
Mar_2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
---Trav on 1/13/15


Many friends and acquaintances profess to be Christian, yet they continue to smoke, drink, gamble and curse. How can this be?

Not a gambling man but I will bet most of those have gone through a ceremony that showed outwardly to the church the inward change because of christ. too.
---aka on 1/12/15


All things are doable, but not all things are profitable. The people who continue to smoke, drink, gamble and curse are stumbling blocks to christians especially weak christians.

Isaiah 28:7
Romans 14:13, 21
1 John 2:10
---Steveng on 1/12/15


Is tobacco use a sin?
---learner2 on 1/11/15


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there will not be christmas or easter or good firday in heaven because these are lies
---mike on 1/11/15


Good points posted.

1John 2:1-5

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Agape to all.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/9/15


Speech will produce actions, actions can be read by speech.
A sinless God in a sinless heaven. Sin was cast out with satan. God is Not going to let the filthy stink of cig smoke & other dwell in heaven, neither drunkards, adulterers etc either. The 3 persons godhead believers in Rev.17 vs 4 5 6 which are many Matt.7 v 13, anything goes, when you die you'l go to heaven. Such Lies from the triune godhead author 2 Cor.11 v 14 & his ministers v 15. I'm Glad I'm Not in it.

Glory to God The Father which who Is Jesus Christ.
---Lawrence on 1/7/15


The bible says If your right hand causes you to sin , cut it off. Better to lose a part of your body than for your whole body to go to hell for eternity. If one can smoke and or drink and honestly feel it does not lead them to sin as defined in the bible then they should continue. But if these habits lead to drunkenness (altered state of mind) then they should not fool themselves and shuold heed Jesus's advice.
---eric on 1/17/08


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Many are called but few are chosen. There are many counterfeits among the genuine. We will be known by the fruit we bear. The fruit tells the whole story and it does not lie. Carnal christians will lose all or part of their reward if they do not come apart from the world and all it has to offer. Examples: drinking smoking, gambling ......
---Robyn on 5/29/07


Smaoking is not a sin (controversial)
Drinking is not a sin unles it is to excess (controversial)
Gambling is a sin (not so controversial)
Cursing ... what words? Blasphemy and obscenity are sinful

Now the different views will come in!
---Alan_of_U.K. on 5/29/07


Christian means Christ-like, and follower of Christ. Actions speak louder than words. If Christ did not do these things and they do, they are NOT Christians - they just wear the label, but are not genuine (real).
---Leslie on 1/7/07


Christian means Christ-like, and follower of Christ. Actions speak louder than words. If Christ did not do these things and they do, they are NOT Christians - they just wear the label, but are not genuine (real).
---Leslie on 1/7/07


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I think some of us are misunderstanding Sam. He's not saying it's ok to steal and murder and lie. He's just stating he's forgiven and not under the law. Those who are under the law will be judged by it and of course, be found guilty. Those under grace do not have law but are righteous through faith. Read Galations. That's what it says.
---john on 8/24/06


If we are to be like Christ, and Christ stated himself he was just a man, who himself had no idols, then shouldn't we eschew Christ? Contemporary views of Christ are often focused on Christ himself, as embodiment of virtue, but by holding that embodiment in such high esteem, rather than the virtues themselves, isn't that idolatry?
---david on 8/24/06


sam7944..you say we are no longer under the law, then is it okay for anyone to kill, to steal, to do wrong...thats what your stating..God gave His 10 commands to help us live a righteous life and to be Christ like..its an excuse to say only Christ can fulfil the law...we sure can if we obediently live by it...
---jana on 8/24/06


Some Christians are just satified to be, "over the line". In other words, "saved", but no interest in maturing. This can be cause be at least two things, 1. They don't want to mature, thinking it might "cramp" their lifestyle, 2, they don't know better. Some Christians just don't know what to do after salvation. They hear, 'be saved', but after that nothing.
---WIVV on 9/22/05


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Dear Jim,
Just reed the letter of James. Your faith has to be in accordance with your acts. When you really are FULL of Jesus, than you cannot be full of smoke or alcoholics or anything else. We are loved by Jesus, who can disappoint him? A Christian is allowed to do anything, but who is able to continue his "old life" when he profess to be his disciple?? A Christian witness his faith by his acts! No doubt at all!
---Ernst9433 on 6/20/05


Did Jesus die for our sins or not? Just some, or all? We do not get saved by our acts of righteousness and law keeping any more than we stay saved by our law keeping and righteous acts. We are no longer under law but the free gift of grace. We are not called to fulfill the law in an effort to attain holiness; Jesus did that- He's the only one that could because He was the firstborn son of many more sons, born again through God's seed.
---sam7944 on 6/19/05


I personally came to Christ because I love Him, because I know how much he loves me and everyone else. The salvation was a side issue. But praise Him that He did save us!! He knows our hearts and motives. If we are in love with our first love, and being teachable by his spirit etc. we need not worry. But God only knows a persons heart. HOWEVER, He also said to be WISE. If they profess to be christian, but refuse your rebuke, avoid them. Good company corrupts good character.
---Laura on 6/17/05


I've been on both sides of the situation. I think true Christians are eventually disappointed in themselves aftrwrds. If you were the one sliding into bad things, how would you want a more disciplined Christian to remind you? Actions might be the strongest way. Words may cause defensiveness. When I'm disappointed in others, I repeat to myself "Focus up" and not on the sin. Draw them away from those actvties by leading them towards more Christian ones. Then He will settle back into their hearts.
---Michelle on 6/17/05


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I personally have found most "christians" to be even more wicked than non-believers, sadly enough. It may be because they are abusing God's grace and totally ignoring everything of God except where it suits them... i.e.: not going to hell by verbally accepting Jesus. But God is no fool. He knows people's hearts. And if they are truly Christ-like (christian)or not, and knows if they even really love Him or want to be like Him in the slightest.
---Laura on 6/16/05


When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, we are giving the Holy Spirit permission to come in and clean us up. The cleaning up takes a long time. Don't judge anyone who does not look like they are serving God. Love everyone, with a holy righteous love. Seek ye first the Kingdom, and everything else will be added onto you. Seek the goodness in everyone always. Let God take care of the rest.
---Caroa3686 on 6/16/05


How can this be? It is just a simple fact that they are not what they claim to be. But be not surprised. Jesus says many "good" Christians will claim to have done good for the Lord and He will tell them:" I know you not!"
---PIERR7958 on 6/16/05


alot of good christians smoke that doesn't make us less of a christian then one who doesn't smoke God knows we have our weaknesses.
---Jean on 6/15/05


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You know what, I realize my answer was judgemental. I apologize!! None of us is without sin, including me. I did a self examination and God showed me I need to sweep out alot more dirt from my door. Thanks for the reminder. Jesus is really the only one who can help us get rid of the obvious sins, then there is whole bunch more of the ones that don't show. What say?
---Elsie on 6/15/05


Maybe to them it isn't wrong.??? Maybe they haven't "converted" over to Christ yet. People can't talk the talk if their not walking the walk. I would talk to them in love, don't say, "Your going to hell if you don't stop". Chances are they won't and you will drive them away. Peter cussed as he cut that man's ear off, when they came to arrest Jesus. Go to them in love, if they still continue, then maybe they didn't get saved at all. You done your part.
---Rebecca_D on 6/15/05


I know smoking is bad for my health but I am still mightly used by the Lord. The same scripture that says the body is the temple can be used to keep you from drinking anything but water, eating no sugar...little salt...and most meat. The Bible clearly teaches against obesity(gluttony) yet in America over half of us are overweight. Me included. Judge not lest ye be judged in same manner. In other words if we judge salvation by their actions we're saying to God. Judge mine by my actions.
---Danny on 6/14/05


Not everyone who says they are christian are really christians. most christians are by birth, family, whatever. We'd know a real christian by their fruits and actions. I real christian knows not to smoke, drink, gamble, or curse. It clearly shows us in the Bible that all these things are wrong, nothing is said about smoking, but smoking is destroying you body and that is a sin, cause you body is the temple of lord, and would the lord do these things?
---vilmavivi_ on 6/14/05


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It depends much on how long your friends have been Christians. We do not all grow at the same pace and some do not change their ways for quite some time whereas others stop these wrong behaviours immediately. Pray for your friends and have the courage to ask, in love, why they still do these things. We are told to correct our brother when he is wrong but there is a correct way of doing that.
---Xanthi on 6/14/05


It's one thing to say you love Christ, but it's quite another thing to serve Christ. "If you all love me, my commandments keep." John 14:15. And his commandments are to be clean, be righteous, be holy, be perfect, be good, be separate from the world, and sin no more, becuse I your God am clean, righteous, holy, perfect, good, separate from the world, and without sin. Hearers of the word are not saved, but the doers of the word are. Please read I John 2:6.
---Eloy on 6/14/05


Dear Jim, I seriously question whether these people are truly Christians. When we believe in Jesus with all our hearts, the smoking, drinking, gambling and cursing goes away. In it's place is love for Jesus. I think you already know this, Jim, but just needed assurance. Blessings!
---Elsie on 6/14/05


Don't forget that christians are still people and we are always being refined. I too know of many whos spirit is disturbing to mine I am far from perfect and need to go to God with my shortcomings There are many forms of struggles and to be judgemental is dangerous Even those that walk the walk are not perfect All I can say is to focus on ones own walk and as for the others it is between them and God. Who is to say who's sin is greater. So lean not on your own understanding but stay close to our Lord.
---flo on 6/14/05


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