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Can You Lose Your Salvation

Can a Christian be written out of the "Book of life"? I have been a Christian for quite awhile, and still don't know the answer to this question.

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 ---Prayerbud_John on 6/17/05
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PART TWO

3 You cant. John 6:44
5 Yes but it ALSO pleases Him to respect our free will Deut 30:15-19, John 14:15
6 James 1:14,15, Matt 13:3-8
7 Satan is not winning.This is a time of trial. A time when humanity gets to choose. It will get much worse but in the end, God wins, rather, He already has won.
8 So long as I trust Him with it, He is. When I turn from that trust, I am. Heb. 3:12-1412
---Bruce5656 on 5/4/08


"Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)

Who does the guaranteeing?
Is He able to keep you safe?
Did He want you scared for your salvation ?
Does He want you to trust Him?

Boldness does not make you wise

shouting condemnation - sounds like John the Baptists it pointed to a better way
---andre5846 on 9/14/07


Boldness ... (and others, if they are others)
Please lay off the CAPS.
They make it so difficult to see what you are saying
---alan_of_UK on 9/14/07


For the OsASSES: Can God SPEW OUT one that's Not WITHIN Him? Can a Branch be CUT OFF, if Not ATTACHED to the Vine? How is a Tree HEWN DOWN, if Not CONJOINED with the Root? How are plants ROOTED UP, if Not PLANTED in the Ground? How is one DISINHERITED, if he's Not CURRENTLY an Heir? How is one DRIVEN OUT of God's House, if Not ALREADY IN His House? How can a Name become BLOTTED OUT, if it's Not ALREADY WRITTEN INTO the Lamb's Book of Life? BEWARE the Doctrines of FALSE PREACHERS!
---BoldnessInChrist on 9/13/07


We get saved through faith, We stay saved through faith....Very easy to understand.
No faith, No salvation.
People who THINK they can lose salvation, have little faith. I dont know what to think about those.
---duane on 9/13/07




The phrase "One can lose his salvation" is a contradiction in terms. Gods purpose is to save people from the wrath of God to come, which is eternal damnation, 1 Thess 1: 10. If God has really saved us from such and we would afterwards actually suffer this, then we were, logically speaking, never saved from this punishment whatever. How can one lose something which one never possessed in the first place? Luke 15: 8 & 9.
---Dave_B on 9/12/07


#2 Consider a ship that begins to sink. The captain sends a distress signal in the hope that another ship comes to the rescue. Then the crew spring into the sea to avoid becoming pulled down with the ship. If a ship arrives too late and they have all drowned, how can one say that they were saved? See Pauls shipwreck in Acts 27. Or if the rescue ship took them on board, how many of them would jump into the sea again? None!
---Dave_B on 9/12/07


#3 Consider someone who jumps into a river to commit suicide. Someone jumps in after him and prevents him from drowning. Could we say that this mans life was saved if he committed suicide the next day and died as a result? No we cannot! He would only be saved by completely giving up the notion of committing suicide. If we were really saved from damnation, because of our sins, then what sense does it make to behave as though we deserved punishment?
---Dave_B on 9/12/07


#4 I do admit, however, that some circumstances do exist where it would be possible to lose salvation. If one happened to believe that someone can save themselves then one could easily give up trying, Eph 2: 7 - 10. Or if God were to evict someone from heaven that he would end up in hell, Luke 16: 22 26. If the eternal punishment of the fallen angels is to be irrevocable, 2 Pet 2: 4, then should we not expect to be treated the same? Matt 10: 33, 26: 34 & 75.
---Dave_B on 9/12/07


Depends on who you ask, Baptists say you cant. Consider the following scriptures:

Revelation 3:5 `He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Leaves the possibility it CAN be removed.

John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. Jesus states no one can be taken out of His hand.
---denna7667 on 9/7/07




5. If God wants something to happen and tells us He does what He pleases, doesn't it please Him to protect His sheep?
6. So many hear God's word and make a commitment, why do they turn and walk away?
7. If God is sovereign why does it seem like the Devil is winning?
8. Is God in control in our salavtion or are we in control?
---Lupe2618 on 9/6/07


Salvation is so big that it would be hard to lose it once you have it :). It really isn't as little or as fragile as we think it is.
---Linda_Smith on 9/25/05


if you don't have true faith in Jesus Christ, you will for sure be out of there.
---lupe2618 on 7/19/05


YES Your name can be blotted out.
---JOD on 7/17/05


Many Israelites did not believe or had faith, God had not given them the ability to understand, the eye to see, and the ear to hear. They saw with their own eyes and hear with their ears and not God's. This are gifts of God. There was many in the group that did believe but the warnings were for the one's that didn't. Jesus mentions the hearing ear and the eye to see many times when He addresses the groups of people around Him. Thats why He tells them they don't understand cause they don't have it.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


Those are the people been addressed by Moses. If you go to Chapter 29 from the beginning, Moses called all the Israelites and said to them: "Your eyes have seen all that the Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous signs and great wonders." Now comes verse 4, "But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear."
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


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The hearing ear, and seeing eye, are the gift of God. All that have them, have them from Him. God gives not only food and raiment, but wealth and large possessions, to many to whom He does not give grace. Many even enjoy the gifts, who have not hearts to perceive the Giver. Now what does that all mean? It means that many have not grace from God but enjoy the good pleasures of the world. The same with many of this people. Many did not have the ear to hear or the seeing eye to see God.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


Anon, glad to see you come on line with this verse and also I see your name on the other question on salvation. You put down the verse of Deuteronomy 29:20 as a reason for someone losing their salvation. If you go to Chapter 1, you will see Moses calls, Israel's mercies to rememberance. The divine wrath on those who flatter themselves in their wickedness, chapter 10-21. In chapter 29:1-9 Both former mercies, and fresh mercies, should be thought on by us as motives to obedience.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


YES! Deut. 29:20The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, AND THE LORD SHALL 'BLOT OUT HIS NAME' FROM UNDER HEAVEN.
---anon on 6/28/05


man in contrast to the enlight-comprehend the meaning of the entire book of Revelation, he will recognize in it a declaration of his hope and that which has been assured to him in grace by his salvation in Christ. The only way someone can change anything on the book is with Blatant unbelief. In other words, no faith in God's Word so he would want to change it. The whole substance of the context deals with that. warnings concerning the sacred character of the prophecy which was given.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


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in the Word of God. Though not stated in detail, the point of these two verses is that a child of God who reveres God will recognize at once that this is the Word of God. To use these verses, however, as a proof that a child of God once saved and born into the family of God can lose his salvation is, of course, applying this passage out of context. These passage assumes that a child of God will not tamper with these scriptures. It is the contrast of unbelief with faith, the blinded, fallen intellect of
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


Hello sister Darline, I will explain this verse in Rev. this way, No one can dare add to the Word of God except in blatant unbelief and denial that the Word is indeed God's own message to man. Likewise, no one should dare take away from the words of the Book, since to do so is to do despited to the inspired Word of God. Tis solemn warning of Scripture in arrogant self-confidence that they are equipped intellectually and spiritually to determine what is true and what is not true
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


KJV. I have an bible collection CD that has different versons of the bible. I typed in backsliding and those scriptures came up. But I use KJV all the time.
---Rebecca_D on 6/28/05


Evidently one can be removed.Revelations22:19 And if any man take away from the words of the book of this prophesy,God shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city and from the things which are writen in this book.If God can do it for one thing He can take it out for anything He deems worthy of such action.
---Darlene_1 on 6/28/05


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I don't know what reference book you have so I cannot check. I checked the King James, N.I.V. and did not see that. Almost all of chapter 12, but not all, Jesus is speaking to the Apostles but after verse 54 He is speaking to the whole crowd. Thank you for your answer Rebeca.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


The example on those verses are; Pilate may have killed the galileans because he though they were rebelling against Rome. The Pharisees, who opposed to using force to deal with Rome, would say that the Galileans deserved to die for rebelling. Jesus is saying, "Instead of blaming others, everyone should look to his or her own day of judgment. If you go back to chapter 12:54 you will see that now He is speaking to the whole crowd. Not just to the Apostles.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


Yes, we are called to repent daily, and though we do repent we continue to sin in many ways we don't even realized. Some of our sins are not even noticed by us but God knows them. You see He knows what the intentions of the heart are. He knows each one struggles in life and knows if you are doing your part or not. Sure when we know what our sin is we do bring it to the Lord but what about the times we don't even know?
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


Rebeca, Again I will say, I am glad that you are looking for information on scripture. That is why I put down what I did. Just a little help for others so they don't just pick a verse and use it wrong. This happens a lot in the church because many of us are not taught how to read God's word and due to our lives been filled by the Spirit we should show some kind of incentive to find the Truth. That is why I feel that my calling is to bring out the Truth to the believer instead of the none believer.
---Lupe2618 on 6/28/05


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That is why God told us to renew our minds daily to repent daily. A sinner can't repent, a sinner has to get saved in order to repent, he is talking about the backsliders. Lu 13:3 I looked up backsliding and all of those verses I posted were under backsliding. I know your intentions are good, but I have backed up what I said by scriptures. all you've done is told me how to read/understand my bible. I know how to do that, but you fail to read what I wrote through spiritual eyes.
---Rebecca_D on 6/28/05


I hope this little help I printed can help you or others in studying. You are doing a great job in looking things up and its more then many others do. Its hard to study but if we take our time and allow the Spirit to answer His own word we will learn more as we grow as Christians. Your intention in writing might be one thing, but God's intention is another. I hope that I have helped in some way.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


I will write one other thing, "who is speaking? Is the teaching normative or intended for specific individuals? To whom is the passage directed to? The reason is, Promises and commands are usually directed to one of the three groups: National Israel, Old Testament believers, or New Testament believers. Normative promises and commands directed to New Testament believers are thos most likely to apply to contemporary Christians.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


In one case, the humorous anecdote of the young man who was searching frantically for God's will and decided to follow the leading of whatever Scripture he opened to is well known: The first passage that fell open was Matthew 27:5 (Judas..went and hanged himself,) The second passage was Luke 10:37 (Go, and do thou likewise,) and the third, John 13:27 (That thou doest, do quickly,) Can you see how the mistake to take a verse out of context can do?
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


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to record the earliest development of humankind and God's initial interventions in human history. Also, who is been address is so important. There is a popular group that claims "Every promise in the Book is mine" additude. As good as it sounds it is hermeneutically incorrect. Certainly we would not want to claim all the promises of Scripture (Matt. 23:29-33)! Nor would we want to claim all the commands given to believers, such as the command to Abraham to sacrifice his son (Genesis 22:3).
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


Let me give an example, Luke 1:14, and Acts 1:1 tell us that Luke's purpose in writing was to present an orderly account of the beginning of the Chrisian era. Now, John tells us in John 20:31 that his purpose was to present an account of Christ's ministry so that men might believe. The Book of 1 Peter is an exhortation to stand fast amid persecution (5:12). The tenfold repetition of the phrase (these are the generations of" in the book of Genesis suggests that the purpose of this book is
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


Rebeca, let me explain something that can help you. The concordance of the bible gives you passages where a word can be found. But it doesn't give you the whole context of the word. It gives you a place where you can find what you are looking for yes, but its counting on you to read to whom it was talking to, and why it was said. What was happening at the time it was said, or else you can be miss guided.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


Rebeca, when you pick a verse to put down you have to read the whole context of the verse. I will answer you one, Luke 13:3, The people Jesus is talking to are none believers. He is not addressing believers and telling them what they have to do, This people have not received the Holy Spirit yet. They have to repent first to become a believer. Your mistake in many verses is that you find one that speaks one way but do not read the whole message. Anyone can pick and choose, you can get the wrong message.
---Lupe2618 on 6/27/05


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Rebecca,
You frequently reinforce the fact that you are not perfect, that you do sin, yet you insist that one unconfessed sin in your life will keep you from heaven whether by death or by rapture.

Where is the rest and peace in relationship like that?
---Bruce5656 on 6/27/05


In Luke 13:3 says unless you repent you shall perish. A dead person can't repent. In Rev 2:4 says that God has something against someone for losing their first love, v/5 talks about one fallen, and they need to repent. In Job 34:26,27 talks about one backsliding, and God strickens them as wicked. Eze 3:20, 18:24, 33:12-16, Mt 12:43-45, 24:12-13, Mk 4:15-19, 2 Pe 2:20-22, Rev 2:20-22. Heb 10:38 says that if a man draws back, God's soul has no pleasure in him.
---Rebecca_D on 6/26/05


The one who has a grudge goes to hell. Our hearts have to be pure. Yes I know we sin, I was just pointing out that one can fall from God and go to hell. God never promised a second chance. He gives everyone a chance to come to him. It says in the bible, those who endure til the end. A person can't live like hell, act like hell, and go to heaven, regardless if they were saved.
---Rebecca_D on 6/26/05


If they have the Holy Spirit in them, they will strive to do better and better, not because of their power but because of God in them. It isn't with our strength but God's. Of course if someone goes around commiting crimes on purpose it would seem to me that he is not saved at all. In a believer, anything good they do, comes from above. The fruits of the Holy Spirit should show in us when we are saved. It is what is in your heart. If you could do everything on your own, why would you need the Spirit?
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/05


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Rebeca, stop to think what you are saying. You see, everyone has a sin nature. No one is perfect at all till the day we die, then we stop sinning. If it was as you say, no one would make it. There is no point in our life time where we are sinless. We are been santified and when we die we will be Glorified. Heck in your statement no one would make it just because of pride. Everyone that believes once save always saved, will not go around commiting sin because they have a right to do it.
---Lupe2618 on 6/26/05


God said himself that if anyone sins against him, their name will be blotted out of the book. take two people who both are saved and love God. Both are faithful, but one has a grudge against someone. they both die. who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Ponder on this, and I'll get back with you.
---Rebecca_D on 6/26/05


I do not know if we can be written out of the book of life. Personally, I believe that we can lose our salvation when we willingly turn our back on God.
Calvanist and the Brethren Church that I fellowship at teaches that we do not lose our salvation. 'Once saved always saved'. Does this give us a licence to sin??.
God is a God of Grace and we should not abuse that Grace.
I have read scripture in the NT and it seems to support both.
---darling_joyce on 6/26/05


Brother Bruce, you are doing a great job and continue, because you are here for a purpose so use it, for God never sends someone unprepared. Many brothers and sisters need your help. I look forward to reading some of your answers.
---Lupe2618 on 6/23/05


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Lupe,
Thank you. The limited time I have to resopnd to things here makes me pick and choose carefully which discussions I will get involved with. I certainly do not think I have all the answers and I appreciate the challange that is recieved when others express ideas that I may never have been exposed to before. It certainly has been a good tool to bring me to the word to study certain topics as they come up.
---Bruce5656 on 6/22/05


Bruce, I see the hard work you put into many answers. I am glad that you find the time to read and study. I do have the time now because I am retired. I find it a delight to look things up and even if I run into brothers like Ruben that have the whole faith so messed up, like Peter being the rock, instead of Christ. Not only him but others that believe in the doctrines of the Catholic church and not the doctrines of Scripture, Luther and Wesly, Wyclif, and many more fought for within the Catholic church.
---Lupe2618 on 6/22/05


Everything has a purpose in God's eyes. I believe that each piece of revelation is like a piece of the puzzle to form God's plan. We learn some here and some there and little by little we see the big picture. Free will is effected here but only because God has it in his plan. All evil forces are under His absolute control and could be blotted out of existance in an instant if He so willed. We might not be able to see the picture just yet but it is there and it will end the way God has formed it.
---lupe2618 on 6/22/05


Scripture represent suffering and death as the wages of sin. It would be unjust for God to execute the penalty on those who are not guilty. Scripture teaches that God restrains sin within certain limits, that He brings good out of intended evil, and overrules the evil for His own glory. Since God is infinite in power and wisdom, sin could have no existance except by His permission. God was free to create, or not to create; to create this particular world-order, or one entirely different.
---lupe2618 on 6/22/05


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so that "in vertue of the union, federal and natural, between Adam and his posterity, his sin, although not their act, is so imputed to them that it is the judicial ground of the penalty threatened against him coming also on them. To impute sin, in Scriptual and theological language, is to impute the guilt of sin. And by guilt is meant the judicial obligation to satisfy justice." His sin is laid to their account. Even infants, who have no personal sin of their own, suffer pain and death.
---lupe2618 on 6/22/05


The nature of the death which fell upon Adam and his descendants can be seen by contrast with life which the redeemed have with Christ. It was a death which caused sin intead of holiness to become man's natural element, so that now in his lost nature the Gospel and all holy things are repulsive to him. The whole Christian world has believed that in the fall, Adam, as the natural and federal head of the race, injured not only himself but all of his posterity,
---Lupe2618 on 6/22/05


God Himself came down into the Garden and was Adam's companion. In unmistakably clear language Adam was warned that if he did eat of the fruit he would certainly die. And now get this, He was thus placed under a pure test of obedience, since the eating would not in itself have been either morally right or wrong. Obedience is here set up as the virtue which, in the rational creature, is , as it were, the mother and guardian of all the others.
---lupe2618 on 6/21/05


It seems to me that God has permitted the fall in order to show what free will would do; and then, by overruling it, He has shown what the blessings of His grace and the judgments of His justice can do. Because if we look how God set it up we can see that it had a purpose. Adam was created holy and was placed in a world free from sin. He was surrounded by all the beauty of paradise and was graciously given permission to eat of all the fruits with the exception of one,
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


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And since the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back into eternity; otherwise there would have been no occasion for redemption. "The redemption of man by Christ was certainly not an afterthought brought in upon man's fall; it was a provision, and when man fell he found justice hand in hand with mercy." Out of the ruins of the fall God has built a new spiritual creation far more glorious than the first.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


Even the fall of Adam , and through him the fall of the race, was not by chance or accident, but was so ordained in the secret counsels of God. We are told that Christ was "Foreknown indeed (as a sacrifice for sin) before the foundations of the world," 1Peter 1:20, Paul speaks of "Eternal purpose" which was purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord" Eph3:11. The writer of Hebrews refers to "Blood of an eternal covenant,"13:20.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


As long as there is life there is hope!!God created man to his image & likeness ,including a free will.He breathed into his nostrils to give him a soul,for which he is accountable.He also gave us guide lines to follow.The only way you can be blotted out of Gods Book of life is if you refuse & deny him.This is accomplished in the saying as you have lived so shall you reap.Be a sheep & stay with his flock.or be a goat & get lost.John hope this answersyour question.
---Emcee on 6/21/05


so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:3-7.
Brother Bruce, I could not make sense as to how it was our choice when it takes an act of God for me to be His child.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


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What would we do with verses like this, "At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


He is given a new nature so that he loves righteousness, and because his mind is enlightened so that he understands and believes the Biblical gospel. And now the renewed sinner freely and willingly turns to Christ as Lord and Saviour. The Holy Spirit creates within him faith and repentance. 1. Peter 1:2 ..chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkiling with His blood...
---lupe2618 on 6/21/05


The reason is, your own answer on question 3. God has to do something first. The Holy Spirit has to perform a work of grace within the sinner which inevitabley brings him to understand and believe spiritual truth; In a spiritual sense he is given the seeing eye and the hearing ear. The Holy Spirit creates within him a new heart or a new nature. This convertion or new birth by which the sinner is made a child of God and is given spiritual life.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


Of the water of life and live. It promises salvation to all who repent and believe. But this outward call, extened to the elect and none elect alike, will not bring sinners to Christ. Why? Because men are by nature dead in sin and are under its power. They are of themselves unable and unwilling to forsake their evil ways and to turn to Christ for mercy. The lost will not respond to the gospel call to repentance and faith.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


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They cannot love someone they don't see. They walk away. But the ones that have a hearing for Christ, they do have the ear to hear as Jesus talks about over and over. Only the one's that can hear Him know what He was talking about. You mentioned Irristable grace, this is what I believe on it, and I hope I can explain it that brings glory to God. I believe the Gospel invitation extends a call to salvation to everyone one who hear its message. It invites all men without distinction to drink freely
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


That verse you mentioned on Agrippa, is exactly what happens to people that hear the revealed word and don't make a commitment. Something inside of them pulls them from coming forward. It is that even when they hear the word they don't choose evil or death, they are already in death. Something has to happen to them in order to come forward. The Holy Spirit has to quicken their hearts in order for them to even see Christ.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


I know becuase I say those words when I pray. Everyone in their hearts know that God is God and runs the show or else the devil is running it. Yet we think we can change the outcome to anything because of our free will. Yet God says He allows the enemy to extend only as far as God wants. He is under submission to God in all His doings. For even through evil God gets glory. It is all for the glory of God. Everything we do is for His glory. Through trials and hardship He get glory in some way.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


Bruce, I will answer your response, you say my understanding Calvinistic, I say that everyone is Calvinistic and believe Calvinistic, because when someone prays they know the Truth. They will say, "God, you can do anything, do your will, You have made everything, please help me, you I count on and trust, or you are my whole life, make a miracle, only you can stop this,and so on" They know who God really is but when they finish they turn away and believe in their free will.
---Lupe2618 on 6/21/05


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On question 3 , we both agree. completely. question 5; you again mention that it also pleases Him to respect our free will. I looked at both verses and neither of the two speak on that behalf. There is just too many verses that tell us how His own know His voice. Of course if someone doesn't know His voice he is not of Him. There would be no security for the chosen, God would have to change His plan because a person fails which is not scriptural that God will change to another plan when He sees us fail.
---lupe2618 on 6/20/05


Is.46:9,10, I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done. That is my other reason why I believe God allowed sin to enter, yet everyone's answer would be so that man could have free will. I believe man always answers for that reason but God purposes are, becuase it pleases Him.
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


Question 2. why did God allow sin to enter? I believe as Scripture tells us that God had a plan. 2Tim. 1:9, It is God who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal. Ps. 33:11, The counsel of Jehovah standeth fast forever, The thought of His heart to all generations. Is. 37:26, Hast thou not heard how I have done it long ago, and formed it of ancient times?
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


PART ONE:
Lupe,
Your logic seems to reflect the Calvinistic concept of irresistible grace. God's grace is not irresistible. While it is true no one comes to God on their own, (Rom 3:11. John 6:44) when faced with the truth of the Gospel, not every one will accept it. Matt 13:4 Some will accept but with little commitment v5 and fall away. Some will accept but be influenced by the world to the extent that they fall away v 7 while others will accept and grow and bear fruit.
---Bruce5656 on 6/20/05


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PART TWO:
Agrippa is an example of one that heard and yet rejected the message. Acts 26:28 We do have the ability to choose to accept or reject God's grace. Josh 24:15
---Bruce5656 on 6/20/05


what condition man is in. He doesn't seek God, so the scripture that everyone mentions that God is at the door and all you have to do is knock was talking to the believers. not the lost. For the lost don't seek God and cannot knock, they are dead. His inclination is to do evil all the time. That was the reason I was questioning that system of believe. I did not understand why they pray one way and believe another way.
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


The most important question and you mention this on one of your answers is, Free will. What is free will? If a person has free will he would not know which way to go. You have to have an inclination of something to make a choice. Its like Alice in wonderland. when she ask the cat, which way should I go? and he said which way are you going? She didn't know so he said it doesn't matter. When someone makes a choice for Christ he has to have a reason or inclingation. The bible tells us
---Lupe1618 on 6/20/05


I heard many at my church say that it was up to them along. I would wonder, how can they, when they are lost and don't seek God to start with. If God has to do something first then we don't come because of our free will but becuase God woke them from the sleep they were in, and they finally saw Christ, when before they were blind. God did the saving and not man with his free will.
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


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Brother Bruce, question 1. why pray to God when someone is lost if the person has a free will? You see brother, how could I believe that it is our choice along because we have a free will, if it takes an act of God first in order for me to come to Christ?Then my free will means nothing without God first giving me conviction. Without it I continue my way, lost.
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


Thank you brother Bruce for you answers and I will look each one up and get back to you. I have already checked some but need to make sure the interpretation of each verse with the whole context included, to make sure what was the perspective of the author at that time. Distinguishing the author's intention to be understood as a direct spokesman for God from his intention to speak as a human reporter describing an event Phenomenologically is important for an accurate understanding of his meaning.
---Lupe2618 on 6/20/05


PART ONE:
Brother Lupe,
I offer these answers for your consideration: (they are numbered as you did with 4 and 9 missing)

1 That the Holy Spirit might bring conviction. Acts 2:37 And that God might allow circumstances in their life that would bring the face to face with their need of a savior. Acts 16:29,30 Rom 10:13-15
2 Can you suggest another way that God might have fellowship with man with out man being a robot? Rev 22:17, Matt 16:25, Mark 8:34
---Bruce5656 on 6/19/05


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