My understanding is a woman can pastor, but only to other women.
---Charla on 9/29/08|
Steveng, If Paul meant it for even now, then tell me WHY Pricilla was preaching, teaching, and an apostle BESIDE Paul in the early church? This means he was talking to the women of that particular time period. If not, Then why would God say he would pour out his Spirit on ALL flesh? There is no male or female in the Spirit. SO, like I said before, ARE you God? no, then who are you to argue with what HE says He will do in the end times-which is what we are living in right now. Men are turning their backs on God everyday. This is why God uses women. Are you saying we can't be Godly enough? Well, God says it is not your choice. God Bless!
---ginger on 9/17/08|
Women in scripture were prophets, so I have no problem with them holding office. As far as eden goes, Eve and Adam both are guilty. Ruach Ha Kadosh ( Holy Spirit ) is actually feminine in Hebrew, not male.
---wayne on 9/11/08|
Nicole "Eve brought sin upon the world, but Adam brought death upon the world."
It is sin that brought death, nothing else.
---Steveng on 9/11/08|
God is not a vindictive God But a loving caring God.CONSIDER.God made Adam and gave him all His (Gods) attributes.He then creates a woman not out of dust but from the attributes he gave man,A MATE making Her Loving caring nurturing patient beautiful and pleasing to man,and different, in her creatvity,YET says you are now 2 in one flesh Increase and multiply.This is why He insists that what "God has joined together let no man put asunder"Giving each the choice to chooseYOUR MATE.as God is in you as man and wifeCan you split GOD?is a house divided against itself?This is the reason for the 6TH C "thou shalt not commit adultery"It all fits like a puzzle.
---MIC on 9/11/08|
I must apologize because Satan committed what he committed. Nicole is right about what happened in the Garden of Eden. Anyway, women are still taking the blame for all of this and it is not Christian. When Christ came, He washed away ALL sin not just the sin of men but women, too. By the way, I am not a man hater just in case anyone would acuse me of it, I just feel that women should no longer be opressed by something Christ fixed with his life, death, and resurrection.
---ginge7376 on 9/11/08|
If the Bible has to be taken as totally and finally authoritative in all detail, how come we use guns and aircraft in combat?
That's not how God in the Bible told His people to arm themselves.
Clearly Christians have "udated" things for that issue.
Why can't women's roles also be updated?
---alan_of_UK on 9/11/08|
Steveng, yes, Eve brought sin upon the world, but Adam brought death upon the world.
That's why the 2nd Person of the Trinity had to be a Man to bring life into the world.
Adam allowed satan to deceive her.
Adam was in charge, not Eve.
After the sin, God called Adam not Eve.
God wasn't speaking to Eve. Adam is the one who threw Eve into the questioning, trying to get God off of him.
The Lord God then called to the MAN AND ASKED HIM, "Where are you?".."Who told you that you were naked? You have eaten, then, from the tree of which I HAD FORBIDDEN YOU TO EAT!" The man replied, "The woman whom you put here with me...
Adam even blames God for his disobedience.
---Nicole on 9/10/08|
It was not Eve who brought sin into the world but Satan. And he has corrupted men's minds against women since. This is because the Savior was born of woman. The enemy comes to destroy and kill. It is alright brother, I forgive you for this slight. Unlike you, God has no repsect of persons and in the last days will raise up whom HE choses regardless of whether man likes it or not. You are free to believe what you wish. I gave outstanding examples of Powerful Women in the bible that God used to help his people. Christ covers even women's sins and forgives. It is to bad that you can't get past that. God Bless you.
---ginge7376 on 9/10/08|
ginger"... This proves that Paul was speaking to the church then not now."
God speaks to everyone. He doesn't play favorites including people at any one time throughout time. All the people throughout time is in the same situation - salvation.If you believe that God's Word is different throughout time is listening to a different gospel, not the gospel that Jesus was spreading. Remember: God's word is the say yesterday, today and tomorrow.
---Steveng on 9/9/08|
Nicole: "Adam is the reason man is dead, not Eve. Adam was put in charge of the Garden, not Eve."
Do you not read what Paul said? "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
It was the women who brought sin upon the world.
---Steveng on 9/9/08|
Deborah was apointed a judge in the OT, Ester saved her people from slaughter, Mary Magdelene delivered the Gospel or good news(this is the definition of preaching by the way) of Jesus' resurrection to the other disciples, Priscilla was a teacher and leader in the early church along side Paul. This proves that Paul was speaking to the church then not now. We are in the end times, God uses who he chooses, There is no male or female in the Spirit.
---ginger on 9/9/08|
Paul is refering to his time not ours. God forsaw the last days and says this- Acts 2: 17 - 17" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Need I say more. God has answered your question.
---ginger on 9/9/08|
Junia, (female name) was a fellow apostle of Paul's according to him in Romans chapter 16. Also, taking scripture in the context it was written, in Timothy when women were to be silent, it was because the women meeting with them were former believers in the goddess Diana. The false teaching of Diana dictated that women were superior and not equals. The women were speaking out of turn and were out of order in the services at that particular place.
---theresa on 9/8/08|
Read 1Timothy chapter 3:1-8 Your answer will be "no" women cannot hold office in the church as a (Bishop, pastor, presbyter, elder, preacher, or deacon). This scripture is not culturally based, it is set up by God thru Paul. The qualifications are listed and to hold this office of Bishop or deacon, it must be a 'man' of one wife. Deaconess is not found in original Greek text, it is engish made. Phoebe and priscilla are listed as a servant, servant in Greek is Diakonos. Diakonia in Greek is the service of waiting tables and running menial errands. Diakoneo is the "Office of Deacon" which no woman can or has held.
---steve on 9/8/08|
Steve, what, not conversative now? Why?
Men and Women were made in God's image.
But, we were not created the same.
Adam was made from the dirt.
Eve from the bone of Adam.
Adam is the reason man is dead, not Eve.
Adam was put in charge of the Garden, not Eve.
Jesus is the 2nd Adam. Not the 2nd Eve.
Priests are men because of Adam.
There isn't any subservient in the Church.
Please tell me of this subservient in the RCC. There isn't any.
You just presumed this because women can't be Priests.
As I said in another blog.
The RCC's wedding vows does not have the word 'obey' for the bride to say.
Only Protestant's wedding vows have this word 'obey' for the bride to say, not us.
---Nicole on 9/7/08|
I used to be a very conservative Catholic who believed that women should not be priests or have positions of leadership in the church.
However, I have come to realize that as time goes on, and as we mature in our knowledge of God, that the positions of our fore-fathers may not reflect who and what we are as church today.
I would humbly submit that if God created us (men and women) in his image, he would have created us all equal! Now, do we think He would want 1/2 to be subservient to the other half? Put another way, do we believe that God the Almighty intentionally created 1/2 of His people to be unequal to the other 1/2?
---Steve on 9/6/08|
Steveng, speaking of verses and numbers, in Romans chapter 16, Apostle Paul gives commendation to Phoebe, a woman who handled business affairs for the church, Junia-(female), a fellow apostle, and other women by name who laboured with him in the ministry. Get over it Steveng, God uses women!
---theresa on 9/3/08|
theresa: "...in Galatians chapter 3, verse 28 it says "there is no male or female...but we are all one in Christ Jesus." God uses women when He chooses to!"
The biggest problem with the Bible are verse numbers. These make taking sentences out of context. The phrase you mentioned above, when read in context, is about the "promise."
---Steveng on 9/2/08|
Dorenda_Jordan, they can preach the Gospel, just not Priests.
You have it backwards.
Only the women were looking for Jesus.
The men were afraid and locked themselves inside. Jesus had to go through the lock door to see them. He fussed at them for not believing the women.
Seeing the women first only proves the promise of Jesus.
Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives, and the one who seeks, finds, and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
But, Jesus went to the Disciples because He intended to follow God's plans.
Men must atone for Adam's Sin.
Women can not do this. Men must be the Priests.
---Nicole on 9/2/08|
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Again, I am asking a legitimate question: Why did the Lord appear to women first after His resurrection if He did not intend for them to preach the gospel?
Think about that!
---Dorenda_Jordan on 9/2/08|
Carla, a "no" is not bringing clarity to this subject. First of all in Romans chapter 16, Paul urges assistance for Phoebe when needed, who handles church business and he gives tribute to a number of other women serving in office capacities in the church. Secondly, in Titus, Chapter 2, verses 3-5, older women are urged to teach the younger women,which is still a teaching position for them. There are prophetesses, including Anna in the New Testament and the daughters of a godly man as well. Plus, in Galatians chapter 3, verse 28 it says "there is no male or female...but we are all one in Christ Jesus." God uses women when He chooses to!
---theresa on 7/30/08|
The answer to your question is NO.
---Carla5754 on 7/18/08|
Donna, I came from out of the Catholic Church and the only women who led things were pushy, sycophantic (towards the priests), and obstructive. They wanted to protect the little bit of power they had negotiated or grabbed. I am sure you are right. I have contacted female pastors I did not know, and found them to be full of godliness and wisdom. So maybe I am old fashioned. (The Stone Age was a joke I take it since I am a young earth believer.)
---frances008 on 7/15/08|
Frances008-boy oh boy you must come from the STONE AGE!!!! LOL
God has used alot of the women here mightily I'm sure and you haven't met me yet in person. I am a fireball for God. I won't compromise His word and I minister to brokenhearted people, people who want to commit suicide and I lay hands on the sick and command demons to come out in Jesus name. I teach the word to everyone, proclaim the gospel everywhere I go and I never have compromised the word nor practiced sin. I am still a sinner saved by Grace, but I am now a repentent sinner. God uses Women ALL the time. Maybe you haven't been around the powerful ones?????
---donna8365 on 7/15/08|
No women have enough to do never mind holding a position proportioned to God fearing or should be God fearing men. If women hold office what will men do MIND the babies clean house, cook, ? Men are getting lazy and lazier and If men are not being encouraged to do mens work Why should women be permitted to do a mans God given role when the Bible talks about women not Preaching.
Women can teach other women how to love their husbands and be good wives men should teach men maybe we'll see the gifts that should be following the believers instead of the dead works some of the churches are producing through disobedience.
---Carla5754 on 7/15/08|
Read what the bible say's about turning from our sinful ways praying and wait for the healing of our land then and ONLY then will we restore the dead works we have been witnessing.
Right now the world is in a mess with all the worst abominations you could think of and there's NOT ONE Man never mind WOMAN standing up for the Godly principles the church seems to enforce on their members and leave the world to wallow in their sins.
I've heard many on this site Quick to run down the ''Catholics'' but give them their dues wrong or right the Pope is the only one speaking out against divorce, abortion, and other Christian values publicly.
---Carla5754 on 7/15/08|
If a person decides to attend a Church that does not permit it, then respecting the order in THAT church,no.
In your studies,you will get the true answer in scripture...
Those who have Christ in Them are already in.
God will use them however HE decides....
*Adam-without the article(HA) ,denotes man or mankind.
denotes his origin as being made from the dust of the ground(Adamah)
*Ish First occurrence in feminine,Gen2:23 ishah,=woman.
GEN3:7They both were
(BEGUILED-INTERESTING WORD IN HEBREW,PLEASE LOOK IT UP IN STRONGS CONCORDANCE)
---char on 7/15/08|
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They can preach and teach.
But they can not be a Priest or Deacon.
Only because it was Adam who caused the fall of mankind and Jesus came as a man to undo Adam's sin. So, until Jesus returns, Priests have to step up like Jesus and offer that Holy Mass, that makes Jesus Present again to the People in the form of Bread and Wine.
---Nicole on 7/15/08|
Hi, Dorenda . . . Paul does say there is "neither male nor female" (Galatians 3:28) in Jesus. So, if women really know their identity is in Jesus, alone, and therefore they aren't really female, how come more women than men are busy defending females against sexist discrimination? "Because they can feel for other women, having been through that, themselves. It's like how Jesus went throught things, here, so He now can feel for us and help us with all that has helped Him (Hebrew 4:15)."
For me, 1 Corinthians 7:4 is ONE example of how I find that God wants men and women to relate *mutually*. And I consider how Paul says the woman must not teach or have authority *over* the man.
---Bill_bila5659 on 7/15/08|
"In Christ Jesus there is neither male nor female" and "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law" (scripture). Question is: "Are we children of the bondwoman or of the free"?
P.S.: Since many of the first witnesses of the resurrection of Christ were women, does that mean that the first good news of the Resurrection of our Lord was commited to those who could not be trusted to proclaim it? He appeared to those whose eyes were opened to His Life, and they by faith proclaimed that Christ triumphed in defeating the author of lies. In Genesis He proclaimed His triumph over the devil when He said the Seed of the woman would crush satan's head!
May those who preach another gospel be anathema!
---Dorenda_Jordan on 7/15/08|
Frances008,have you thought about the fact that an anointed woman who God is standing with can be as strong or stronger than any man. God said touch not my anointed. I don't know what women you are referring to but the women I know in the Ministry only are concerned with pleasing God not man. I could care less about pleasing any but my husband,but I'll follow God where ever he leadeth. When I serve God however He leads I bend overbackwards to hear His voice and no one elses,man or woman.
---Darlene_1 on 6/2/08|
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I think the Bible is silent on this issue, so we just have our opinions. The Bible references many prophetesses...but does not mention any in the role of priest/pastor. This is not an area I study much, so I may be misinformed...?
---Todd1 on 5/25/08|
Women should definitely keep out of leadership roles because women are always so afraid of displeasing the inevitable strong men who are going to be pressuring her from outside from 'above' and I mean in the hierarchy. A man can hold his own against another man, and can be strong against evil. Women do not have a clue. I know this, because I am female. We are weaker and we need men who are strong to lead the Church.
---frances008 on 5/25/08|
Just attending a meeting with a lot of men is intimidating for a woman. I am a woman. I know this is true. The only women who get on are those who please their 'masters'. God does not want men pleasers but God-pleasers. Men can obstruct women easily, and get rid of them, and patronize them. It is much harder for a man to face another man in a confrontation.
---frances008 on 5/25/08|
Liberal women may not like this truth, but nevertheless it remains, No, women are to be excluded from leadership roles according to the Scripture: for after the weaker vessel had sinned she did not repent, but instead told her head, the husband, also to sin against God. And thus consequently, the whole human race has fallen into sin.
---Eloy on 5/24/08|
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How is it you suppose that God, who "dosen't approve of women in leadership roles" ever used a woman like Deborah?
Judges 4:4-5, "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment."
---Bruce5656 on 1/3/06|
Added: Acts 9:36 Now there was at Joppa, a certain disciple named Tabitha (or, Dorcas..by interpretation), full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
As I see it, women are to teach and do good works but not to take the position asigned to men, in the church.
---Rebecca on 1/3/06|
I Tim. 2 : 11,12....Women learn in silence ...should not usurp authority over the man. What should they be doing? Titus 2 :4,5..aged women ..teach young women to be sober, keepers at home, obedient to husbands, discreet, chaste.
Question: Christian couple visit on behalf of God, the woman speaking privately with the other woman, because they are alike, understand each other, she can speak and exhort, can she not? Maybe it's about time and place, for all things? Jesus had women disciples?
---Rebecca on 1/3/06|
Dear Richard: What are we going to say to Yongi Cho whose South Korean church is now over 1,000,000 members. When he began his ministry, the men couldn't have cared less about Jesus; it was the women who came together and answered God's call to raise up His church. You can research this in "The Fourth Dimension". Blessings!
---Elsie on 7/4/05|
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Paul was refrerring to women gossiping & talking among themselves during church services.
I don't agree with the ancient laws that permitted a man to have many wives, that is so gross. I do agree that women should not be church leaders or act masculine at all. I do not agree with the way women dress in public now either. It is shameful & degrading, absolutely undignified.
---Norma on 7/3/05|
Many will say, Candice, that Paul's words were for his own church group ... Note the words "I will not allow" NOT "God does not allow"
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/3/05|
Do we believe what the Bible says or some book man has written giving there opions of what the Bible says? If Paul ment something different, why didn't he say so?
---Rev_Herb on 7/3/05|
P.S. Also to the first comment or second below; God is the same yesterday,today & forever, therefore so is his word in the bible, so Pauls message was not only for the people then, but for us today.
---candice on 7/3/05|
I agree with what Paul wrote,& being a woman who wants things in her life had to really examine myself on this issue. If you take the question & refer back to 1Cor 11:1-3 thease verses cover the "headship" .I respect my husband for he is over me & Christ is over him. I believe women can teach bibleclasses to children or other women, but not preach from the pulpit because it's showing she is out of bounds over man & God.
---candice on 7/3/05|
Jerry ... whilst the word "wife" was used in this 'rule', the whole weight of the 'rule' is on "only one"
So it is a rule about the marital morality of having only one wife (or spouse)
By itself it does not tell me that the leader must be a man, although there are other passages pointing to this being Paul's own personal preference.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/3/05|
Herb I've read the book mentioned and several others dealing with the same issues. Our problem is that most of us do not understand Greek or Hebrew and have little knowledge of how things were in those days and, therefore, are unable to understand WHY Paul said what he said. We need to delve deeper and not assume that the KJV is a correct literal translation of the original. Some things do not translate into English perfectly anyway.
---F.F. on 7/3/05|
Do we believe the bible or some man's book on this subject? If the book is so good explaining what Paul said, why did't Paul say it the way he ment it.
---Rev_Herb on 7/3/05|
No. According to the Word of God, two offices are excluded: The Deacon and the Bishop (Elder). 1 Tim 3:2 and 1 Tim 3:12 specifically state that these office-holders must be the "husband of one wife." If a woman can be a husband in the eyes of God, then she may be a Deacon or Elder - I don't think that is possible.
---Jerry6593 on 7/3/05|