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Exceptions To The Scriptures

Anyone agree there is always exceptions [not contradictions] to God's will or the scriptures, Tenach & New testament [It's called Grace!]? God's perfect will was on the other side of "The Fall". Some things are not supposed to happen, but do, then what? Throw stones, seek God, or WWJD.

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 ---bob6749_[Elishama] on 7/6/05
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Alan, It is God's will that man bring glory to him, and not shame. When he gave man the gift of freewill to choose to do good or do evil, he desires man to do good, and thereby be blessed. His will is not that man would eat of disobedience and incur death: but he knew the woman would disobey, because he knows all things, the end from the beginning. Nevertheless, he chose to give man freedom of choice inspite of the knowledge that the woman would disobey, for he also knew that some would choose rightly.
---Eloy on 6/14/08


Eloy is completely right.

It seems futile for us to try to understand God's purposes, omnipotence, omniscience or omnipresense.

We cant begin to understand God's thoughts or purposes

Isa 55:9
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts."
---Todd1 on 6/13/08


Eloy ... My difficulty with that is that it means that it was God's Will that man would sin.
---alan_of_UK on 6/13/08


There are no exceptions to God's will or the scriptures. God is perfect, above reproach, and ultimately in complete control over all his creation. YHWH says, "So will my word be that goes forward out of my mouth: it will not return up to void, but it will accomplish that which I please, and it will prosper to what I sent it." Isaiah 55:11.
---Eloy on 6/13/08


The idea that something is "supposed" to happen is silly. That's Greek philosophy, not Christianity. Things either happen or they don't, as a result of the free choices of all human beings, and God taking those choices and weaving them into His plan for the world. That plan has never changed and can't be hindered, because He already knew everything when He made the plan in the beginning.
---Billy on 4/15/07




SARA,

Your pastor's message was based on pure speculation. There is no scriptural evidence for man being created to replace Satan.

It may not have been God's plan for man to sin but the fact is He knew that they would and He created them anyway.
---Bruce5656 on 4/26/06


Last week my pastor preached on the subject. After Lucifer fell from heaven God wanted someone there to fill the void that was gone from the worship.Therefore he created man.God's plan wasn't for man to sin b/c if if there was sin people would go to hell and the Bible says hell was only created for the devil and his angels.If if was God's plan for man to sin he knew there would be sinners that would go to hell.God would never do that he wanted man to be perfect as he is and to praise and worship him.
---SARA on 4/26/06


Show me my 'alterations, changes', etc of the scriptures, or their meanings!

Greek philosphy, or evolution, you're right, it is 'unchristlike' & sinful if practiced [I Tim.6:20]!

Sin is sin, whether one gets caught or not [I Jn.1:5-10]!

Sin may be an option for some, but not believers in Christ. That's why I appreciate God's Grace so, I'm simply not perfect like some, or do I believe anyone is "once saved, always saved" [Rom.11:13(33)36, Phil.2:2-16]!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 8/18/05


SILLY?
Loosen Up, read the question! It's not about sin or the infallabillity of Gods Plans!

Abraham & Sarah were'nt *supposed to 'help' God, but tried!

Rebekah was'nt *supposed to do what she did, but did [Jacob & Esau]!

Mankind was'nt *supposed to sin or die, but we do! Heb.10:26.

Neither was 'denominations' meant to be, but are, [Big Time!], Rom.8:1-*7.

Why knock the Pharisee's [or me, by PERSONAL FEELINGS/BELIEF'S?

BOTTOM LINE?
GOD'S GRACE!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 8/18/05


Anytime a person starts making "exceptions", "alterations", "changes", etc. to what the Bible states, trouble is just around the corner. While we are under grace, we aren't to take advantage of it to sin. We are saved FROM sin to saved TO sin.
For example: when a missionary, it was not unusal to see Christians, steal, lie or commit adultery. The only "sin", in this case was if you got caught. (Romans 6:1-2)
---WIVV on 8/18/05




Sad to say, but some parents actually teach their offspring to sin: that is to lie, cheat, steal, hate, etc. But when a child is mature enough to distinguish right from wrong, then he/she can rightly use their freedom of choice to obey God instead of sin.
---Eloy on 8/15/05


Eloy, Adam was made sinless, not made to/in sin, did not sin, til satan [formerly Lucifer], seduced Eve [with all due respect], through a serpent bringing curses to all God's creation [I Cor.15:21-22, 45-50], God always judges through His earthly 'heads' [Gen.3:14-19, 20-24].

Free wills don't cause anyone to sin [Rom.8:1]! I'm glad Jesus/Messias could have sinned, having emptied himself of His God Head 'protection', BUT DID'NT!

Some see offspring sinning, who don't have to but do, WHY?
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 8/14/05


bob6749_[Elishama], i agree with you. There shouldn't be any competeing in the body of Christ, for God loves each and every member equally. The disciples had the same problem saying, Who is the greatest among us in your kingdom. And Jesus said unless you become as this little child you cannot even enter into the kingdom of God.
---Eloy on 7/8/05


Thanks for pointing out that error, it's I Cor.14:12. Sometimes we christians in the same 'Body', sit in different 'pews'. I try not to bring a reproach on God, or Godhead. If I can't edify God, or Jesus, I would not intentionally 'fillibuster', as some religious or political representatives routinely do now, to their shame, and hurt before the world. Thought provoking scriptural dialogue is good for spiritual growth, and a good way to witness to others [I Peter 4:15-17]. God Bless and Maranatha!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 7/8/05


i see. i looked up every scripture you gave, but the last one there is no II Timothy chapter 14. Yes, God's mind has been changed many times, when the people pray and turn away from their wrong doing, then instead of God rightly destroying the people for their wrongs, he will then turn away his anger and have mercy on them instead.
---Eloy on 7/8/05


All I'm trying to share is how God's Grace, like the innocent animal [lamb (uh-oh)] is how God, The Creator Of The Universe will change His mind, forgiving and protecting us in certain situations [Gen.2:(7-9), 16-17, 3:1-24], because of His love for us [Gen.6:3, 6-8, Exod.32:1-14, Judges 2:1(16-23)]. The rock? II Tim.2:15-16, Me II Tim.3;16-17, II Tim.14:12. Maranatha! I UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE GOD'S GRACE [AND MERCY] TOWARDS US ALL.
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 7/7/05


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bob6749 [Elishama], Who says that the first humans were not suppose to sin? God put the tree right in the middle of the garden, and he said what would happen to them before they did actually did it, and he also told about what the destroyer would do to his people before he did it, and about the Redeemer coming before he did also. God's will is perfectly planned.
---Eloy on 7/7/05


Lastly, if it's a matter of how to respond to things of that sort, I would just say "Trust Him". He knows what He's doing, and He promised us that all things work together for good to those who love Him. No exceptions to that one. I don't know if anything I've said addresses what you're asking, but I hope so.
---Billy on 7/7/05


Did you simply mean "how can it be that sometimes things happen that God obviously doesn't like or approve of, and isn't this outside His will?" Yes, it's outside His will (strictly speaking), but it was still His will that permitted it, for the sake of something infinitely more important. Perfect love can't debate about the end to be attained, and perfect wisdom can't debate about the means best suited to achieve that end. I'm not qualified to second-guess God's thoughts and purposes.
---Billy on 7/7/05


The idea that things are somehow "supposed" to happen struck me as that kind of self-contradiction. What could you possibly mean by it, except some form of predestination? And if that were so, it would void the Atonement and make God the author of evil, which is utterly unacceptable, as I think you would agree. The only other think I can think that you could have meant is this:
---Billy on 7/7/05


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It's true that God didn't want man to sin and go to Hell, but He knew perfectly well that's what would happen if He gave us free will. You might say He thought it was worth the cost. I'm NOT speaking heresy, but you have to remember that even God can't do two things that are mutually exclusive. He can't create a rock so heavy that He can't lift it, for example. It's not a limitation on His power, it's just that a statement like that is self-contradictory nonsense.
---Billy on 7/7/05


I don't imagine I know everything, and I'm sorry if I offended you. Perhaps "silly" was a poor word choice. I just don't think it's possible to answer your question or even talk about it meaningfully without SOME reference to doctrines and theology, because it goes to the very root of how we look at the world. But I'm going to try to approach it from a different angle and see if I can explain what I mean.
---Billy on 7/7/05


READ THE QUESTION! The question is legitmate and not about doctrines, theology, etc. Man was never supposed to sin & go to hell, God's word never returns to Him void, though we change it's answers at times, it still serve His purpose! Hezekiah's 'death notice', no kings for Israel, Abraham and Lot, YESHUA/Jesus ministered to gentiles while sent to the lost sheep of Israel. LOOSEN UP! "The letter killeth, The Spirit giveth life"! 'Silly' is not a fruit of the spirit & no one person knows it all!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 7/7/05


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