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All Accept Christ Or Only Selected

Was Jesus' sacrifice for all, and can anyone accept Him?
Or does God select those who will be saved, and direct their mind do that only they accept Jesus?

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 ---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/8/05
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Acceptance of Our Divine saviour is absolutely essential, but what is most important is acceptance on HIS TERMS.Not our interpretation of His terms as He has provided His Church Mat16:17-19 for His interpretations.Many people think The church issues its own edicts but forget That the Holy Spirit guides His church as HE Matt,28:20 He is with us ALWAYS till the end of Time.
---Emcee on 11/28/07


Alan of U.K., Scripture tells us that God controls "everything." He made us, doesn't He have the "right" to do with us what and how He pleases? Are YOU going to tell God that He can't do thus and such? If you don't like God's plan, you might have a problem, as He is the ONLY one who does exactly as He wills.
---tommy3007 on 11/28/07


Thank you Alan, you are so right. We do have to hold on to that faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. Hold on with our dear lives. Not waver but be strong in trusting Him no matter what happens in life. Good or bad. That was my point on the faith I was talking about. See you on another question later, bye
---lupe2618 on 7/23/05


Lupe ... yes faith is very important, but still more important is the thing we have faith in ... ie.e salvation. And more important still is the person who gave us that salvation ... Jesus.
We do not agree over the process by which we have that faith, but that is an unimportant detail of theological doctrine.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/23/05


Thank you Alan for your kind remarks on my sister on the other blog. I loved her so much. Do miss her a lot.
---lupe2618 on 7/23/05




Alan, to me losing salvation is not a problem because I know that if I keep that faith on Him I will make it. If I don't, I really didn't have the faith Scripture mentions that God gave me. It is all about faith. Many of the people in Galatians and other books did fall away cause they didn't have it, the same in other areas. People talk about losing their salvation, but what is true is that they didn't have the faith to hold out. Lost something they never had, salvation, and true faith.
---lupe2618 on 7/23/05


11. Us the believer are the only ones that can discern His word. Every thing He does has a purpose, even our lifes mean so much to Him. Everyone has a purpose in life because we touch so many and through our actions, God works His will to others. I hope that I have explained my side too. I don't even know if I made my point on faith, but it is the most important thing we have. Nothing else matters.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


10. Everyone else went down. No matter who they were. They were idolters but so were the Isralites. yet God only made good to them. God had a reason. when I mention to you that God is sovereign I mean that God is in control. He shows us from Gen. all through scripture. And all through Scripture He tells us how we disobey. He mentions He will do more and man disobey. He tells us what He is going to do to those that disobey, but who is He telling? Us. The believer. Not the lost.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


9. concern what God wants, then its not ok. Nothing can take presidence over God. That is why I spoke against what you said on the other blog. Not to be mean but to explain what God wants from us. I don't understand it all but I believe He had a purpose for doing that order of things. I am trusting on my faith. Adam's sin put us in a mess and God just stopped talking to us. Our separation was big. No more God in our lives. If you notice that the only people God helped were the Israilites.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


8. many here take salvation for granted. I read their questions. I have never heard such stuff at my church. Not until I got on this blogs. I too see what you answer on others and I can see you have a heart for women. That is great because many great sisters go through so much. I have met many and hear what they go through. Some mean guys and many so call Christian. I cannot see how a Christian can do that. I applaud what you do. I am glad that you do but when it
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05




7. God wants our all. That is why I speak of the faith because everyone on line is responsible to make sure they have that faith because if they don't, they will not be a part of God. I know that God is love but what He sacraficed was His Son. We have to make sure our commitment is honest. I know what is going to happen already. God's will will be done. No matter what we do. He already has the answer to everything. Its us that don't and that is why we have to allow the Spirit to work through us.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


6. God's mericles last a life time. Not the way they show on tv. He does not perform in front of anyone to show His power. His mericles last and you see them later in life and you give thanks for what He did for you. I have seen many from people in my church. they live different lifes. I mentioned to you about drinking. I know a couple that struggles all the time but they hang on. That is why I mentioned what I did. They are holding on to faith. Just like I am. Come hell or high water I will not let go.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Alan, I have been praying for two groups of people for over ten years. Nine women that have breast cancer. And four children that were kidnap. Since i started only one sister has died. The kids are not found yet. I know how important my prayers are to God. It has to come from my heart. I believe in healing but not the way others do. God does mericles every second. His providences are at work all the time.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


4. that is why many won't make it, because they will not have the faith to carry them through. they will fall away Alan. God paid a big price for our salvation. It means a lot to Him to make things right from the fall. When I begin this six years ago I would not pray as much as I do now. I thought we had to and I did but not the way we should. I believe prayer is so important now. I don't take it for granted when I pray. I know God listens but will do His will and I have learned to except that.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


3. Even when I was good I was far short of what God expects of us. I write what is in Scripture because it condemns us to see ourselves as we were without Christ. Remember, the word is for the believer only. the lost cannot discern God's word. He wants us to see where we came from and what it took to make us right with Him. He continues to show us over and over the disobidience we do in our lives. What He really wants is our commitment. All of our commitment. He doesn't except less.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


2. I never did anything to hurt my wife or my family as I saw it. But I wasn't the person God wanted me to be. The bible says, that even our righteous deeds are as filthy rags. What scripture does is show us that we are good compare to who? someone else, but compare to God we are nothing. We all come short of the Glory of God. It means that we are evil in our desires because we are prideful and only care many times about ourselves. God's word puts us at the level He see's us compare to His holiness.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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Alan, thank you for responding the way you did. If I have read you wrong I am sorry. when I write something Alan I don't do it to make points or change anyone. I cannot change anyone as I have said. All someone has to do is answer and I can go from there. I understand your feelings with your family. I know what I had to go through. I too am sorry for your family and the things you have seen there. You and I have been pretty good. I never did the things Scripture says either.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Lupe # 15 You see the other thing I suppose is that all my Christian life I have been brought up and taught that we have free-will& and all you say has not been sufficient to move me!
We have spent a long time on this ... and come to no concensus, except, I hope we can agree that it is not a salvation issue. I don't think that our understanding of HOW the process of our being saved worked makes any difference to the fact that we ARE saved.
God bless
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 14
I'm sorry Lupe, if you have felt that I have not given the whole of my reasoning at once ... you see my problem is that I have seen your points come out over a series of posts, and it's not until I read your new point that I saw how my viewpoint differed from it, and so I could not respond until I had seen your point. That sounds and is garbled, but it is late ... I hope you understand what I mean there
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 13 Does making our own mind up actually give us something to be proud of, does it constitute a "work" No I suggest not ... it is just that God has allowed us to use the mind He gave us & so to HIM be the glory and thanks for the salvation.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


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Lupe # 12
I know that Paul's writings show we have been chosen for salvation, and that we have been given faith ... but this does not really preclude us making our own choice.
And I don't think that scripture says anywhere that those who are not eventually saved (or who, as I suggest, accept Jesus) are actually created without the ability to be saved, or that God deliberately does not save them.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 11 Again Lupe ... were those unsaved full of evil?
No, I do not think so ... so I find it quite believable that we are not totally depraved before being saved, and unable to make any decision about our response to Christ's message.
I think that Billy's comment about God in His goodness and Grace, allowing us to make up our own minds as to whether to accept Jesus, fits in with the mesaage that Jesus gave
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 10 For the next 18 months her mother was ill and eventually dying.
For the last 12 months at university, Sara had no mother.
Those who offered the greatest support and love were not saved, as you would call it ... they were indifferent to religious matters.
What about the members of the Christian Union? Well, they were too tied up praising God and getting close to Him, to have any thought of looking outwards, even to the needs of their Christian "sister".
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 9 Can I sidetrack slightly and tell another story of my wifes illness and death?
My youngest daughter was at university the other end of the country. The first term she suffered extruciating pain, and was treated as a hypocondriac drunkard by the paramedics. Eventually she was diagnosed as suffering from gallstones. She had the operation to remove these, which was successful.
The next day her mother went into the same hospital for the investigation which diagnosed her cancer.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


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Lupe # 8 I have lost track of where I was and what I am trying to say ... Yes ... It is I think, that before we are saved, we are NOT totally depraved. I do not recall that before I was saved, I was quite as evil as you think the quoted passage makes us. I do not think I had any of those traits, other perhaps than foolishness ... I did not lie, steal, fornicate etc.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 7 There is in London, a wall full of plaques commemorating the totally sacrificial acts of ordinanary folk who have died to save the lives of others, both known to them and strangers. Some of the stories showed extroardinary selfless courage. I cannot believe that those brave folk were totally depraved.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 6 To return now to the discussion (for I hope it can be this rather than an argument) You quote "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adulter, coveting, wichedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man."
I do not think that, or yuor other quotes, say that there is nothing but those in the hearts of unsaved people.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 5 I do hope you do not go on thinking that I always attack you ... there are blogs where I have agreed yuor point of view, and others where I have disagreed ... but you must not think I am attacking you personally. I don't say "Ah it's Lupe, he must be wrong"! There are issues where honest opposing opinions may be held, and who is to KNOW which is right?
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


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Lupe # 5 Thus my feeling of guilt ... had I had lack of faith? ... was it my lack of faith which cause my wife to die?
There are those few who still seem to think I am not a "proper Christian" because of my failure to secure the healing for my Brenda.
But please Lupe, I pray you, do not say that I do not accept God's will ... I do ... I have had to.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 4 To go back to my wife's death ... this treatment by the Christians really hurt me ... and I also felt guilty. I have always believed that when we pray God has 3 possible answers ... "Yes", or "Later", or "No, but I will carry you through what you will go through"
So I had NOT prayed in faith that God would answer our prayer by giving healing, and my prayer had been qualified "but, Lord YOUR will be done" ... accepting that the answert might be No
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 3 Before going on, Lupe, I've read how your sister died, clinging to false beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and deserted by them just when they should have given her support.
I don't know how I would have coped with that ... and I can imagine at times you may have felt like screaming at God. You must still be terribly distressed, and I cannot say anything except offer deepest sympathy. That's totally inadequate, it's difficult on the internet to hug you and cry with you.
God bless you
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe # 1... Whilst my wife was dying, there were "prayers for healing" and the statement "We know Lord you have promised that if we pray in full faith, you will grant our request ... we claim that promise and know that you will heal Brenda"
As you know, she died ... and by some I was almost shunned, as if to say "You could not have prayed properly, you could not have been proper Christians"
cont to 3
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


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Lupe # 1... you are unkind and unjust to me ... I know you are sincere in yuor belief, and I am trying to understand it ... that is not talking about ME.
I'm sorry about your mother sister and wife, and those losses are greater than my loss of mother and wife in a similar period. But you seem to say that I do not accept these as the will of God.
But can I tell yuo of how I have been hurt by Christian in this matter of loss of my wife? Cont to 2
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Christ had a reason for his blindness. It happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. Who's work? God's. Later in verse 17 you can see that he answered to the questioning, "He is a prophet". Our faith believes that God had a good purpose for it. The faith that is spoken in Scripture is complete submission or dependence on God. We cannot believe half, but all of God, for if we waver on one, we will waver on many.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Alan, if you go to John 9:2-3, you can read,"His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "But this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." Now Alan, I don't think that it was fair for this guy to go through all his life blind. He didn't ask to be blind. He was just born blind. God has a reason why he was born blind.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


You and I don't understand on how to run a creation like His. We get bits and pieces from Him as a revelation and try to put them together. I don't like many things that happen in the world and I have my opinion on them but that doesn't change anything as far as God is concern. He knows why He allows things and why He doesn't sometimes. He is ruler of His creation and we don't have a thing to complain about but to give thanks to Him for saving us. Faith, that He has a reason. Alan, that is my faith.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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I have to believe in Him and not me. Not men, but Him. I have to put all my trust even when I don't understand it. My whole life has to revolve around Him and not me. If He tells me that devil is but an instrument, I believe it. If He says that everything good comes from above, I believe it. If He tells me that without Him I can do nothing, I believe that. That is my faith. My faith In Christ. How can I be a Christian if I don't have the faith to believe in Him? You tell me how can I?
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Alan, I lost my wife, mom, dad, and sister in 2 years. Do you think I like that? I sure don't, but my faith tells me that God has a reason why He called them and a reason why I am still here. That is my faith. That I have to trust in God that whatever happens He has good intentions even when we think it is not. I have to believe on what Christ promises to us because He is sovereign. I have to believe that there is no battle between Him and satan because satan is a created being.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


2.Sin will continue, Christians will keep dying because of a drunk driver. Death itself will continue, children and adults will suffer all because of sin. That God could stop everything, is for sure. That He hasn't, is for sure. He knows the time when Christ will come and then things will be different. God does not love what is happening, He hates sin but does not stop it yet until His timing.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Alan, as a Christian you do have free will as Adam did before the fall. You now know right from wrong and good and bad. There is no excuse for you now. The lost are lost already due to Adam, they are walking and loving what they do. You are without excuse why your heart is thinking bad. As Christian you too will be judge. why do you think the bombers blew the building, because their mind was to do evil. And so long as there is sin in the world it will continue to happen.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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8. If you were real serious about your faith, you would check to see if there is anything there or not. But again you don't have to do anything. It is up to you. If you don't like any of my answers, just don't answer them, but with you, you just have to respond but for the wrong reason. I can handle what Scripture says. I have learned a lot from others like Pierr, Jeffery, Tommy, sister Barbara, and many others. Somehow God has a word for me everyday.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


7. because your responses are not to see if I am right or wrong and compare, you just don't like what I write, and yet I give you what the Bible says. I got it all from there. If you don't like what is there it is not my fault. Your thinking and your feelings have nothing to do with what God wrote and why He wrote it. You are but clay Alan. Not the Potter. You think because you don't understand something it has to be wrong.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


6. Somehow you seem to hate what I represent. I answered a question on submission, and you went against me, I answered another to Ruben and you went against me, I answered this one to Billy and you disagreed. You seem to think that I am out here trying to attack you. You keep saying, " you say this and that" You always you. I wrote the Scriptures down because I know you will not go and look for them. I know that you don't want even an explanation because
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


5. 1 John 3:10: By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil; whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother. Titus 3:3: For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, let astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another. Alan, those are just a few of the scriptures that discript our lost condition.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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4. Those were only a few of many scriptures that talk about the heart of lost man. Now for who they love; John 8:44: you are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. Eph. 2:1.2: And you he made alive, when you were dead through the respassees and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


3. Mark 7:21-23: "For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adulter, coveting, wichedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man." John 3:19: And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
---Lupe2618 on 7/22/05


2. Genesis 6:5, The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Genesis 8:21, The imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Ecclesiastess 9:2 "the hearts of men are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live. Jeremiah 17: The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?
---Lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Alan, you are sure good at twisting things around and then throwing 9/11 in there to prove something you don't agree with. Why don't you put the answers one at a time in order so I can respond to them instead of throwing all the stuff you put down. Be orderly and I can respond to your answers as a brother. I cannot answer to your emotions or your feelings. I can only tell you what Scripture says.
---Lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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B Once you are "saved" God gives us free-will to act as we like, and if we do bad things that is OK as long as we say sorry.
Lupe, you keep quoting verses which appear to support yuor theory, but the theory does not fit the overall message of redemption which Christ gave.
How can you say that a God who creates men, whom He determines will not have Him revealed to them, just so that He can punish them eternally, is just, or loving?
Christ gave no inkling of that.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


A Before we are saved, we have no free-will, but are totally evil, loving Satan, hating God,and He chooses not to save us. So God made the bombers in the New York 9/11, Madrid, and London 7/7 were actas they did.
Not only the bombers, but every non-Christian is evil, and not able to do anything about it, becase God chooses not to "save" them.
You have not actually said all that, but it seems to be the eventual meaning of what you believe
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe ... can you clarify our positions before being saved and after? I will try to summarise what I understand you have said,,and the implications of what you say:
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


Lupe ... Billy has said some things which I've said in different ways before ... I am glad I am not the only one who disagrees with you Lupe.
Your picture of non-christians being dileberately excluded by Jesus still sounds so different from the loving words He spoke.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


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Lupe ... you paint a dramatic of the non-Christian "every inclination you have is for satan" "every inclination of the heart is to do evil" "hates God" "love satan"
My experience of the non-christian is just lack of interest, no thought of following Satan, no plan to do evil.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/22/05


4.God who loves you and wants to save you, gives you life first and you can see now. You see Christ for the first time and God gives you His faith, so you can believe in Him and trust in Him. The tide has now changed. Satan is nothing and you have everything in Christ. You become a new creation in Christ. As His child now, He promises He will carry you through your life. The others, continue their way cause they love satan and the world. After that God touches another and then another.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


4. Let me give an example. Lets say Christ and the devil were fighting for your soul. But you don't see Christ, so you don't know who He is. Now, every inclination you have is for satan, how could you choose Christ if you don't see Him or know anything about Him? Something would have to happen to you in order for you to make a choice for Christ. So far satan has the upper hand. To the lost, he does have the upper hand. He has them already.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


3. Billy, I like your explanation and everything you said. For eight years I thought about salvation like that until I had questions like that. If man is lost and every inclination of the heart is to do evil, and if he is seperated from God and hates God, and if he is blind and cannot see Him, and dead spiritually, how in the world can he choose Him? You see Christ is not at equal terms with satan that way.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


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2. Eph. 2:8, "It is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from youselves. It is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast." This scripture tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. nothing we do so we don't boast. If we had something to do with our salvation we would gain something. I understand the delimma because I had it too. How could I be save on my own free will if God has to give me the faith in the first place.
---lupe2618 on 7/22/05


Billy, in the first part you say that He gives grace enough to believe, then we accept and then He gives us faith. I don't understand how you can accept Him first without the faith. I don't want to make it complicated but If He gives grace without faith first how can you accept Him? I read all you said in all your answers and I know what you are saying. It sounds great but in order to believe, to accept Him you do have to have faith first.
---lupe2618 on 7/21/05


But God revealed to all of us that Paradise was on the other side, and He built a bridge for us to walk across. There are still those who will choose to pretend they don't see it, who will turn away from Him and reject the gift for various reasons. This is inherent in being an independent self. But no one lacks the choice, because God is not willing that any should perish, and He took upon Himself the punishment of us all.
---Billy on 7/21/05


Through His grace, He removes the impossibility of our choice. He restores to us the knowledge of our deepest desire, unless we willfully shut our eyes and refuse to see it. Many people do, but that is their choice and not God's. It's as if we were separated from Him by a vast chasm, uncrossable by anything we could do, and we didn't even believe there was anything on the other side to make it worth TRYING to cross.
---Billy on 7/21/05


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I think all people are created with a love for God, that every thing anyone ever loves on Earth is only because it reminds them in some way of Him, like a reflection of the blazing sun in a dewdrop. The desire, the yearning for salvation is present in everyone. Because of our corrupt sin nature, many people never realize this, never seek Him out, even think they despise and hate Him. None of us would ever return to Him, unless He reached out to us. But He did.
---Billy on 7/21/05


(cont) and the other gifts of the true believer. I didn't mean to imply that everyone always has all those things. As you say, that's not possible. I only meant that God offers to everyone (through His power and grace), an opportunity to grasp salvation which we could never of our own selves have even chosen, because of our sin nature and our complete separation from God.
---Billy on 7/21/05


I was discussing a separate aspect of grace, not the aspect which is offered only to saved believers. God offers this type of prevenient grace to everyone, but its function is "only" to allow them to choose whether to accept salvation or not. They couldn't possibly make such a choice unless God supported them with His grace enough to allow it, because we are completely separated from Him by sin. Then, if they do accept, they immediately receive the gift of saving faith.
---Billy on 7/21/05


That is so true. You do need that faith and you get it from God. Eph. 2:1-9, explains the process of our salvation, and the faith to believe. It is clearly and doesn't need interpretation. He is speaking to the believers in Chapter one you can see that Paul is always giving thanks for their salvation. Chapter 2, he reminds them of where they came from and how they were chosen.
---lupe2618 on 7/18/05


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Lupe, if a person doesn't get faith until after they're saved, then I don't think anyone would get saved. You have to have the faith in the One who can remove all sins before you can give your life over to Him. After that, your faith grows, but you need the initial faith that makes you take that first step to Him.
---Ann5758 on 7/18/05


2. If everyone has saving faith, that means that they have connection already with Christ. but we are seperated from God completely. That everyone gets some kind grace is for sure because even the murders live sometimes better then Christians. Many have more then us. They enjoy the sun, moon an all the things we do, but they don't have faith through grace like believes do. If they had faith they could enter God's kingdom before been born again. It was a good thought.
---lupe2618 on 7/17/05


Billy, in your question, are you trying to say that God gives everyone grace with faith and that all they have to do is choose? I believe you said that but not sure. If that is the question, it sounds great but I don't think that would be possible. That would mean everyone has saving faith. You can not have faith without been born again. It comes after. It cannot come before because you would have faith in Christ before you were born again.
---lupe2618 on 7/17/05


Emcee ... Do I know the answer to my question? I know what I think, but only God knows how He operates.
I askeed the question because I wanted Lupe to have the opportunity of explaining further what he said in the Iraq blog.
I think I now understand better why he says there is no free will to accept Christ.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/16/05


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Billy ... I think like you ... your latest comment says so much better than I did when I just said "Perhaps the sign of this true Sovereign is that He is so great that He is prepared to allow free-will"
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/16/05


Thank you Billy for your answers. The second Part, I read a few times and maybe I didn't read it correctly and before I make a comment If its ok with you, can you phrase it maybe in other way so I can answer. I was going to answer but then I thought I had the question wrong so I stopped. I would love to answer. Just take your time and I will do what I can. Again thanks for keeping up with all this. I sure don't mind looking things up.
---lupe2618 on 7/16/05


What if we said that the ONLY reason any person is able to choose to come to God or not is because God offers to every human being sufficient of His grace to permit them to choose? They could NEVER have chosen it on their own, without His grace to support them. This means not one atom of the glory or sovereignty is taken away from God, because salvation remains His gift, and His alone.
---Billy on 7/15/05


Lupe, OF COURSE I agree with you that it's utterly, absolutely impossible for any human being to choose to come to God of their own free will, because of our depraved and sinful nature. If we could, that would take part of the glory away from God, and that's intolerable. I've NEVER doubted these facts for an instant. God is sovereign over everything, and to Him goes all the glory, with no exceptions whatsoever. But I don't think that goes far enough.
---Billy on 7/15/05


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Alan of UK : with your understanding Knowledge & eloquence, it would seem that either you are in a quandry confused or know the answer to the question posed by you.Christ shed his blood for all,as you have so often explained yourself.
---Emcee on 7/15/05


Tommy: I know you asked Alan but permit me to add my two cents.
I propose that precicely because He made us with minds to make good or bad choices He would not now want to treat us as robots. So, as I told Lupe, because He is LOVE He cannot and would not use force in dealing with us.
---Pierr7958 on 7/15/05


2. I have always felt that my calling is for other believers, I don't know why but I love to witness to others but learning is so much fun to me. Our lives are depended upon God in everything we do. We are His children He is our Dad. I try my best to explain things but I sure don't know it all. That is why I always ask if someone has something they want to share I am willing to listen, and I know my Spirit will know and tell me if it is ok or not. I will check everything with Scripture.
---lupe2618 on 7/15/05


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