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Why To Keep The Law

Help me understand the expression: "Keeping the Law for Love or for Salvation" What's the difference?

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 ---Jan on 7/11/05
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Good words, Tommy. I just want to put what you said in a different way. The Law points out what is sin and a need for a Savior. Some Jews and Christians think you are saved by obeying the Law. NO! When you really have godly love....you will obey the Law out of love and respect. Not out of fear and punishment.
---micha6885 on 4/8/08


"No one was able to keep the law - thats why Christ had to die. If we could have been good enough - His death would not have been necessary.
If even one person could have lived and been made Holy under the law - the law was in place to show us what sin was - the law of grace is the change of heart."

VERY GOOD!
---David on 8/12/07


No one was able to keep the law - thats why Christ had to die. If we could have been good enough - His death would not have been necessary.
If even one person could have lived and been made Holy under the law - the law was in place to show us what sin was - the law of grace is the change of heart.
Many people still trying to be good enough don't experience the regeneration that is theirs. God never forces Himself on us, He gives us gifts - we have to take them.
---Andrea on 8/11/07


"The 10 laws of God is the heart of the New Covenant, just as it was in the Old. Paul plainly taught the Law of God was part of the N/C."

Ummm, no he didn't. In 2 Corinthians 3, he makes it quite clear that what was engraven in stones is done away. That was the 10 commandments and was called the ministration of death and condemnation. It cannot even be compared to the ministration of the Spirit, the ministration of righteousness.
---Linda on 8/12/07


"The Law was given as our taskmaster, to show us our inability to satisfy God's requirements."

Not quite. The Law shows when we sin. We didn't have to sin, we chose to. The Law shows us our need for a Savior after we have failed to love God and our fellow man as we ought to.
---David on 8/11/07




The "difference" is that there is no "keeping the Law for salvation." Paul reminds us that no flesh is saved by the law. The Law was given as our taskmaster, to show us our inability to satisfy God's requirements. It is only through the work of God in Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that we can even desire to restore our relationsip with God. We keep the law in order to show our gratitude and love for God.
---tommy3007 on 8/11/07


the Law has never been for salvation. as Paul said,' i knew not sin but by the Law" it's purpose is to show us how dirty and filthy our hearts truly are. have you ever told a lie, stolen, used God's name in vain, or looked w/ lust? if yes, on Judgement Day God will see you as a lying , thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart. this is the Law at work
---r.w. on 10/21/06


"keeping the law for love or salvation"
Jesus says: "if you love me keep my commandments" not "if you want to go to heaven keep my commandments" Jesus wants a personel relationship with YOU" for him to know you and you to know him. so that when we are face to face we will know each other. we dont want to be face to face and be found wanting. this simply means do you love me and want to keep my commandments or do you just want to get to heaven.
---jeremy on 9/26/06


geraa7578 please read my recent post on the ceremonial laws of God etc. it should give you explaination of the 2 covenants of God. The Moral Laws of God and the Mosaic Laws of Moses
---jana on 9/26/06


7)"Behold, the days are coming, when I will make a n/c..this is the covenant..I will put My Laws in their mind and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people"Heb8:8,10 see also Jer31:32-33.The 10 laws of God is the heart of the New Covenant, just as it was in the Old. Paul plainly taught the Law of God was part of the N/C.
---jana on 9/26/06




6)Christ is our New Covenant with God. In a Messianic prophecy about Christ, God said:"I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles, to open blind eyes, to bring out prisoners from the prison, those who sit in darkeness from the prison house"Isa42:6-7.Theres no doubt the N/C we celebrate in Jesus contains the 10 Laws. The Lord says:
---jana on 9/26/06


3)WVV Be sure 2note here the Bible says the HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES(The Law of Moses) was nailed 2the cross - not the Ten Commandment Law of God! In this same passage, Paul continued 2write, "So dont let noone judge you/in food or/in drink, or regarding a/festival or a/newmoon or sabbaths, which are/a shadow of/things to/come, but the substance is of/Christ Col2:16=17. All of/the ceremonial ordinances, including annual sabbaths(not 2be confused with the weekly, 7thyday sabath)
---jana on 9/26/06


2)WVV The Law of Moses prescribed sacrifices, festivals, and ceremonial ordinances thate were symbolic of Jesus. Paul emphatically states that the law of ceremonies ended when it was nailed to the cross:Col2:12-14 and you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has He quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the HANDWRITINGS of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross".
---jana on 9/26/06


1) WIVV, hence the 10Moral Laws of God we must obey. God gave us 2 covenants.(a)Ceremonial Laws of Moses: defined the earthly temple services and all the special annual sabbaths. Everything contained within the C/Law was a shadow that pointed to Jesus as the substance-"For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect"Heb10:11.
---jana on 9/26/06


According to Mt1:21 salvation is from sin. Clearly sin is disobedience to the Law (Torah), according to 1Jn3:4, Rom3:20, and Rom 7:7. And this lines up perfectly with Romans. The Law, by it's nature does not have the power to get one to obey it. When you see a stop sign, does that sign have the power to make you stop? Absolutely not! It only defines the proper behavior that you SHOULD follow. Similarly, rightouesness is defined by Torah (Rom 2:13).
---Ben on 9/23/06


If we dont need the 10 commandments of God anymore, thats fine...then I can come and shoot you all...and throw you all in the lake...Is that what you all mean about God's laws as useless? ..answer me please...am I allowed to kill you all then since you say the laws are done away? ...
---jana on 8/21/06


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It's inaccurate in any form. Christ fulfilled the Law by His Death & Resurrection. (The Law was not replaced by Him, but fulfilled.) Matthew 5:17
---WIVV on 8/9/05


Pierr, i will just name one important moral law that is different from the O.T and the N.T. Jesus said, Of the Old Testament you have heard, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life: but the Lord God gives you a New Law, Love your enemies, and if they strike you then turn the other cheek.
---Eloy on 7/15/05


Bruce: I am talking of the PERMANENT MORAL LAW vs the temporary ceremonial laws.
---Pierr7958 on 7/14/05


Pierr,
What laws are you refering to specfically, the 10 commandments (Moral Code) or the Mosaic law - Dietary, dress code etc?
---Bruce5656 on 7/14/05


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Eloy,
You keep on implying that there was one moral law for the OT and one moral law for the NT.
I strongly disagree with you but will do so agreeably.
---Pierr7958 on 7/14/05


In the OT, The law was given to show sin in a person. God had Israel following the law, knowing they would not be able to. However when Christ died at the cross, Christ brought in the dispensation of Grace by faith. Romans 3:21, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:5-13, Romans 11:5-7, Galatians 3:21-29, Galatians 5:1-6, 1 Timothy 1:3-10. Hope these passages of scriptures help.
---geraa7578 on 7/14/05


Pierr, there are alot of O.T. moral laws that have been done away with by the N.T. moral laws. That is one reason why the Jews demanded about Jesus, Crucify him! Because he was overturning their O.T. moral laws with his higher N.T. moral laws.
---Eloy on 7/14/05


You keep the law of God out of obedience because you love Him. There is no other reason. The Bible says you must live under the law of the land that you live in unless it goes against God's law. When you try to make it to heaven by keeping the law you will not make it. Jesus is the only way. You must become obedient to God keeping His laws as he told you to and that includes obeying those placed in charge, money & the 10 commandments & the love thy neighbor as thyself. Trust God. He keeps His word.
---Amy on 7/14/05


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geraa:
When you write:"the law was given to follow for salvation" you seem to be promoting "salvation by works" Note: We are NOT saved by keeping the law!
When you write "the law was nailed to the cross" you seem to be saying that it was put away or cancelled. The law of God IS AS PERMANENT as its writer and it is still our obligation to honor/obey it but LOVE is to be the motivator.
---Pierr7958 on 7/14/05


Bruce.
The new order and being under grace not under the law, DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE DON'T NEED TO OBEY THE LAW ANYMORE.
It does mean that because Jesus died in our place we benefit from His free gift if we accept Him as our personal Saviour and we will want to do His will and obey Him as an expression of our gratitude NOT TO BE SAVED BUT BECAUSE HE SAVED US!
---Pierr7958 on 7/13/05


Pierr,
Jesus did not come to "destroy the law" because as a Jew he was to keep it completly. As a matter of fact, that is what makes him the perfect sacrifice, he kept all the law. That was BEFORE his sacrifice.

However, following his sacrifice, we have a new order of things as expressed by Paul.Romans 6:14, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


Jan, I began on your post and finished on the one question about blood sacrafices, if you go there you will see the continuing explanation of what I wrote. Pierr, you did a great job. Eloy also stated what is not an option for the believer. I believe we all touched on one thing or other on the subject.
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


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Eloy:
I suggest that "the law" which you correctly id as imperfect was in fact the ceremonial law having to do with the sacrifical services and the old covenant.
The moral law has never and will never be
IMPERFECT because we are told that it is a reflection of His character!
---Pierr7958 on 7/13/05


Geraa, that was a great answer. I believe Pierr had it the way I see it. Most everyone made a contibution. I would add something on this in some kind of order. In context of giving of the Law. First, the law was given within the context of a gracious covenant; God had made a covenant of grace with Abraham, a covenant which the giving of the law never nullified (Gal. 3:17). Second, God had graciously rescued Israel from Egypt and providentlly sustained the people with manna and other miracles during
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


The law was given to Israel to follow for salvation. However, in the Pauline Epistles, we find out that the law was actually to show that we where not perfect, Romans 3:20, Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13. That is why in Colossians 2:14, the law was nailed to his cross. When Christ died at Calvary, he removed the law, so we again have access to the Father. The law is now for showing us how to better live our lives, not for salvation.
---geraa7578 on 7/13/05


randy and Pierr, pt1 of 4: "Now no doubt, if the Priesthood be translated, then of necessity must the Law be translated also. For the commandment that went before is Disannulled, because of its weakness and unprofitableness. For the Law made nothing perfect, but was an introduction of a better hope: by which hope we draw near to God. And for that cause was Jesus an establisher of a better Testament." Hebrews 7:12,18,19,22.
---Eloy on 7/13/05


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randy and Pierr, pt2: "Who has made us able to minister the New Testament, not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. I despise not the grace of God: for if righteousness be by the Law, then Christ died in vain. II Corinthians 3:6; Galatians 2:21. No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other: or else he will lean to the one and despise the other. A little leaven does leaven the whole lump of dough."
---Eloy on 7/13/05


randy and Pierr, pt.3: "No man puts a piece of stiff cloth into an old garment: for then it takes away the fullness of the garment, and a worse tear is made. Neither do men put new wine into old vessels, else the vessels break and be destroyed, and the wine run out: but men pour new wine into new vessels, and both are preserved together."
---Eloy on 7/13/05


randy and Pierr, pt.4: "Then he said to them, Therefore every wise teacher in the kingdom of heaven, is like an field tender, which brings forward out of his treasure, new and old. Study to show yourself honorable to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth justly."
---Eloy on 7/13/05


Randy, we keep all the Moral Law. It never changes/expires. It's usually obvious which Laws are moral and which are ceremonial, but those verses that MIGHT be unclear were sorted out by the Apostles and the early church in the first century AD. Most Christians have respected their decisions. The Law is fulfilled by loving God first and then our neighbor, but Jesus said "Why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say?". No one can love God by despising His clear commandments.
---Billy on 7/12/05


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Jan:a law,is a law, is a law!From the beginning of Time God gave us laws which he called the 10 commandments Jesus said I did not come to change the law but to enforce it.Love the law, live by it, & you will have salvation, Jesus & his teachingsI am the truth & the way.He has given us certain aids to help us keep that law he who eats my body & drinks my blood I live in him & he in Me.
---Emcee on 7/12/05


cont from before
Further evidence from, the Biblele, that Jesus disagrees with your post: Math 5:18 "Verily I say...not one jot or tittle shall ... pass from the law" Conclusion: The Moral Law (10 commandments)is/ are as binding upon us Christians as they were on the Childeren of Israel!
WARNING: Math 5:19 " If anyone breaks the least commandment AND TEACHES OTHERS TO DO SO, he shall be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven." THE MORAL LAW IS permanent.THAT'S THAT. CASE CLOSED!
---Pierr7958 on 7/12/05


cont from before
Clearly, Christ did not come to set aside the law but He actually came to FULFILL both laws, the CEREMONIAL TYPE and THE MORAL LAW (The commandments). The CL he fulfilled as the great Anitype and the ML He fulfilled by perfect obedience. To be cont.
---Pierr7958 on 7/12/05


Eloy:
I am afraid I will have to challenge your last posting. I would like to suggest that there is God's law (permanent) and Moses'ordinances (temporary-tied to the sacrificiaal system). Jesus completly contradicts your claim that "one law" was to be kep during OTT and "another" law during NTT and here is what He says:
Math. 5:17 "THINK NOT that I have ...to destroy the law, I have come NOT TO DESTROY but to fulfill the law." To be cont.
---Pierr7958 on 7/12/05


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Billy my problem is who gets to decide which verses we keep and which ones we dont. The RCC, our pastor, or do we get to decide? It is this cafeteria style of faith that bothers me. I will obey that law not this one. And anyone who does not believe as I do is dead wrong. I believe Christ when he says that the law is complete by loving God, our neighbor and ourselves. We will be responsible at judgment for our actions.
---randy on 7/12/05


Eloy, are you saying God changed his mind? Why didnt he give the NT laws in the first place? Didnt Christ say neither jot nor title will pass, Matthew 5:18, he was speaking of the OT laws? Where in the scripture does it say that there are two sets of laws? So if there is a set of NT laws, do we no longer live under grace?
---randy on 7/12/05


There are two sets of Laws. There is the O.T. Levitical Law which is superceded by the N.T. Judaic Law. Since A.D. we are only to obey the N.T. Judaic Law from Christ, "If you all love me, my commandments keep." So the O.T. Laws are not binding anymore, such as: animal sacrifices; titheing; sabbath-keeping; dietary laws; circumcision; inter-tribal marriage only; etc. The N.T. Law generally is summed up into two points: love God first and completely; and love your neighbor as yourself.
---Eloy on 7/12/05


Randy, some of the Law applies to matters which don't currently exist, but it's still valid if that situation arose again someday. Other parts of it had to do with purely ceremonial things like how the Temple should be conducted, and that part is finished now. All the dietary laws were explicitly "repealed" in Acts. There are reasons why we keep (or not) every single verse.
---Billy on 7/12/05


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Jan, there's no such thing as keeping the Law for salvation. You can't save yourself, either by keeping the Law or by any other method. It's impossible. But, we keep the Law as best we can, out of love for our Lord and gratitude for the salvation He gave to us.
---Billy on 7/12/05


cont from before
When Jesus said:"If you love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15 He was quoting from the 3rd commandment which states:"shewing mercy unto 1000ds of THEM THAT LOVE ME, and KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS! v6
CONC: You cannot obey God's law unless you love Him FIRST!
---Pierr7958 on 7/11/05


cont from before
Next God brought Israel to Mt. Sinai. where He gave them His law. NOW a lot of people start the 1st commandment with:"Though shalt ... before me." Ex. 20:3 BUT THEY SKIP SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT: The first words written stone actually were:" I am the Lord thy God...out of the house of bondage." V2
God was saying:" I have saved you, herw's my law!" To be cont.
---Pierr7958 on 7/11/05


Jan,
Ref. The Exodus experience. When Moses went to Egypt to lead Israel out of slavery, God tested their faith, requiriing them to offer the Passover lamb. This signified that they were saved based on their faith in the blood of the lamb. They needed to be both filled with the lamb and covered by its blood .
To be cont.
---Pierr7958 on 7/11/05


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If you love me, you won't kill me. Thou shalt not kill. If you hate me, then you have commited murder in your heart already. Without the law, I knew no sin, but the law showed me I was a sinner and needed a Savior. (Fear God and keep his commandments.) Where is this found in the bible?
---Rev_Herb on 7/11/05


Jan,

Remember the greatest commandment "Love." When we Love the Lord, we are graduated a step above the law. That means through love and love alone, you can fulfill the law and go beyond. It's only when you truly have love in your heart you can bless those who persecute you.
---Maha on 7/11/05


But I think it is odd that we dont keep all of the law, just bits and pieces of it. Even the Ten Commandments, as few of us worship on the Sabbath. Just look in Leviticus, the word abomination is used a bunch of times but the only one that is kept is about men lying with men and not the others. Who gets to decide which laws we keep and which ones we dont?
---randy on 7/11/05


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