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Please Explain OT Blood Sacrifices

Jesus died for our sins by being Crucified. Why then do we assume that all our sins are forgiven and we are saved by Grace and his blood washed away all our sins? This appears to me to be incorrect.

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 ---Emcee on 7/12/05
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Before Christ atonement was made by shedding the blood of animals but when Jesus was crucified HIS was the ultimate sacrifice so there is nothing that WE can DO other than repent, confess and accept the Salvation offered with thanksgiving. No more shedding of blood is required, but we have to accept the gift to benefit from it. His sacrifice WAS a GIFT but a rejected gift will be of no use to anyone.

Accept and be saved, reject and remain lost.

Ten opportunities remain to answer this old question before it closes.


---Rita_H on 7/17/14


Sorry Emcee, I need to start looking at the dates of these topic starter.
---Nicole on 6/9/08


Nicole:,This post 3 years old was asked by me to show that OSAS was wrong,The prophet Hosea expresses this 6:3-6.God wants our love to know and serve Him,thus ensuring our Salvation.Jn6 is added proof of this.I agree with you Nicole that is why I used the word incorrect in the original question.
---Emcee on 6/9/08


Amen 1st Cliff.

Emcee, we are Saved by Baptism and Blood of Christ. That's why Jesus said in John 6 that we must eat His Body and His Blood to have eternal life. The Jews had to eat the lamb if the angel of death would pass them. Passover is fulfilled in Jesus. But, we also must eat the Lamb.
Plus, He commanded Baptism in the Trinity for Salvation in which we receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
---Nicole on 6/9/08


Emcee although Christ died for All our sins it is only those who accept that they are sinners, needing a Saviour and asking for forgiveness of those sins who will actually have them forgiven. All have sinned and some just don't care. Their sins are not forgiven (even though Christ died for them). People used to sacrifice bulls, goats etc. to show they were sorry for their sins. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, no more shedding of blood is required, but we have to accept the gift given.
---Xanthi on 6/7/08




Jesus' sacrifice removes the "Adamic" sin (which carried the death penalty)Something that none of Adam's decendants could do. Personal sins are "forgiven" by "repentance" and supplication.
---1st_cliff on 9/5/07


We do not assume, God's word tells us! Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but through Me." Jesus was the purest sacrifice, born of a virgin, in the line of David, and guiltless, He had no sin! That means that He was the ultimate sacrifice! That is why we KNOW that we are forgiven through Christ.
---zoe5647 on 3/12/07


Part two: Purpose of Law: Gal 3:23 until Jesus is revealed..It is the Law tht convicts us of sin. The Law is written by God for man to live by..for it is the character of God and we are to conform to His ways if we love Him..
---jana on 7/14/06


Part One: Purpose of the Law:Gal 3:21 to 24 Does this mean that the Law is against God's promises? No, not at all for if makind had received a law that could bring life, then everyone could be put right with God by obeying it. But the scripture says that the whole world is under the power of sin, and so the gift which is promised on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ is given to those who believe.23 but before the time for faith came, the Law kept us all locked up as prisoners
---jana on 7/14/06


Bruce:(Contd)If people think they are saved & break one of the laws, they have broken all& hence found Disfavour with God& out of grace.So Keeping the Commandments of his Father is Imperative first,so that we always remain in gods good graces & continue to please him & so find Favour in his sight.then only will you be saved "BE perfect as your heavenly father is perfect"
---Emcee on 7/22/05




Bruce:the laws in question Are Gods laws which he gave to Moses Spoken of in the OT & NT these were given by the Father& was the prime reason that Jesus came to insist that these be followed,not the laws of tradition that had crept in,& made law by the Sanhederin.You are in juxta position when you say people think they are saved by keeping the commandments. (contd)
---Emcee on 7/22/05


Emcee,
It was not clear just what "laws" you were refering to. The 10 commandments are restated one way or another in the NT. They do reflect God's uiniversal standard of human behaviour. The difficulty comes when people think they are saved BY KEEPING the commandments rather than keeping the commandments BECAUSE they are saved.
---Bruce5656 on 7/19/05


Bruce5656:The law I spoke about are the 10 commandments of GOD Given by HIM--are you contesting this using the words of Pauls letters to the Romans. First comes belief which is faith then comes grace as a result of that belief.It is true Jesus died for our sins, this opened the gates of heaven which had been closed to humanity,to say that his blood washed away our individual sins is bordering on presumption.why then did Jesus say He who follows me will have eternal life ie Heaven everlasting.
---Emcee on 7/19/05


PART ONE:
Emcee,

Thank you for clarifying the gender question. I thought that you were of the male persuasion but I saw someone else refer to you as a she so it made me question if I was thinking correctly.

You said: as such we are commanded to fully observe those rules, guidelines, commands, & if we do, it will give us the grace of God which is necessary.

Paul expressly contradicts that point of view in the Book of Romans and Galations.
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART TWO:
I will not take the space here to quote as extensively as I would like from these books. I encourage you to take the time to read them through.

Romans 3:20-28, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART THREE:
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then?.... By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


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PART FOUR:
Romans 4:1-5, "if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART FIVE:
Romans 5:1, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Galatians 2:16-21, "a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified For I through
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART SIX:
the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART SEVEN:
Galatians 3:1-11, "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


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PART EIGHT:
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


PART NINE:
Galatians 3:23-25, "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Over and over again, in these books and elsewhere, it is all about faith and believing to be saved, not doing.
---Bruce5656 on 7/17/05


Contd:That is why I say the theory of christians once saved,always saved, is incorrect & misleading.Just to refresh your memory on genderI am a widower not as old as methusala,but old enough to know better not to mislead & I am a Catholic.we do have Bible studies on specific subjects amongst adults of catholic organisations,in all parishes,throughout the world.
---Emcee on 7/16/05


Bruce & Alan:We are getting away from the subject Bruce your 7 part explaination says nothing.Jesus by dying on the cross Over came satan& sin this action enabled the gates of heaven to be again opened to humanity provided that humanity kept the commandments of the father,as such we are commanded to fully observe those rules, guidelines, commands, & if we do, it will give us the grace of God which is necessary By faith hope & love to gain us admittance& abide with him for all eternity(contd).
---Emcee on 7/16/05


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I don't think so Alan as Emcee has stated that he (she?) specificaly believes that baptism is essential to be saved.
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


Bruce ... I can see what Emcee is getting at. She thinks that the nonRC view is that if we accept that Jesus died for our sins, that is in itself a kind of faith. But is it faith ... is it sufficient to believe that fact?
Emcee suggests not ... we do need to do something about it!
I guess you would say that real faith includes getting on knees, repenting & saying THANK YOU, & come into my heart ... and I think Emcee would say all that & that it would lead to good actions.
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/16/05


PART ONE:
Emcee,

The simple Gospel is:

Man is a sinner, separated from God and helpless to do anything about it. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Sin results in death, both physical, but more importantly spitirual. Spiritual death is defined as separation from God. Romans 6:23a
"...The wages of sin is death..."
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


PART TWO:
God sent His own son to be the ultimate sacrifice and die in our place. Romans 5:8
"God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!"

If you accept this truth and ask him to be your savior, He will Romans 10:13 "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!"
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


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PART THREE:
All you need to do is believe Romans 10:9,10 "...If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

That is it. Nothing else is required. No action or thing we do or may have done to us by someone else is needed. Only but to believe and ask.
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


PART FOUR:
We become a Christian by faith in the finished work of Christ. We are not saved BY good works, but we are saved UNTO good works.

It is like saying a dog barks. It is not a dog because it barks, it barks because it is a dog. In the same way, we are not saved by our good works, we do good works because we are saved.
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


PART FIVE:
There is nothing wrong with doing good things UNLESS we think that those things we do will in some way earn us Gods favor. Gods favor, blessings, grace etc. is not a reward but a gift. Freely given to a totally undeserving humanity. Nothing we can or will do will impress God in the least. (Isaiah 64:6, "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags")
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


PART SIX:
The Galatians were being taught that while it was good to believe in Jesus, simply believing was not enough for salvation but that they had to be circumcised to really be saved. Paul told them that if they tried to add anything to the gospel he taught them (saved by faith not by works) they would loose out altogether and they would fall from grace Gal 5:4
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


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PART SEVEN:
In other words,
Faith in Christ + ANY thing else = nothing at all

There are no degrees of being a Christian. You are either saved or you are not. Almost saved is completely lost.
---Bruce5656 on 7/16/05


So it is not only grace that enabels us to gain admittance but Faith & good works as well& this helps us to maintain that good grace with the Almighty,& we continue to gain favour in his sight.Is this correct?"My righteous one will live by Faith,perseverence & hope"
---Emcee on 7/15/05


Consider re reading the Book of Hebrews.
Hebrews 9:1-5 - The earthly sanctuary
Hebrews 9:6-10 - The limitations of the earthly service
Hebrews 9:11-15 - The Heavenly Sanctuary
...
Hebrews 9:18-22 - The Mediators' Death Necessary
Hebrews 9: 23-28 - the Greatness of Christ's sacrifice.
Hebrews whole chapter of 10 and 11.
---barbara67 on 7/15/05


Without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sins.

The theme of Bible from Genesis to Revelation seems to be God's making of man, the fall of man & God's conditinual attempt to remind man that restoration is provided for man. Whether man acknowledges this, seems to be an individual decision.
Last thought - FAITH. Faith in the character and word of God. God said that we would be saved by believing, Heb.1:3 - therefore it happened.
---Barbara67 on 7/15/05


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So from the answers given Am I to understand that accepting the fact that Jesus died for our sins is enough to gain me admittance to heaven by the Gift of grace of acceptance & acknowledging my sins???By this theory we all go to heaven is this correct??
---Emcee on 7/14/05


Emcee,
I respectfully ask you to reread the posts. They show a progression from the OT sacrificial system TO the final sacrifice of Christ. There is no confusing the two. There is nothing there that compares the blood of Jesus to bulls but rather it CONTRASTS the two. His sacrifice is better (totally sufficient) and permanent (never to be repeated).

If you have a problem with what is said in Hebrews 9:12-14 (part five below) you will have to take that up with the author.
---Bruce5656 on 7/14/05


Bruce5656:You are mixing up the old testament With the new testament.They are two separate covenants the OT is no longer in existence for Christians.Your Part 5 is also contradictary Jesus clearly at the last supper exhorted us to break bread & partake of his body & blood it is no bulls sacifical blood.He did the same after his resurrection when all were assembled prior to pentecost.The shedding of his blood on the cross was only to open the gates of Heaven which had been closed by mans sinful nature.
---Emcee on 7/13/05


brother Bruce, I didn't see your explanation because when I started, yours were not on line yet. your writings are great. I wanted to put things in order of context to show first why the law was there in the first place. Then work my way to us as new believers in Christ. It just shows the work you are doing and why you love what you do. Everyone has done great.
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


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and we are not under condemnation of the law because his identity is now with the atoning death of Christ which frees us from it. This took me all night to put together after I read the question, hope it helps to understand the law and the difference what Paul wrote what he wrote. The law continues to perform the same functions in the New Testament that it did in the Old Testament we just have to understand how the law helps us.
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


On the other hand, Paul argued just as forcefully for the right use of the law-as an indicator of God's moral standards, as a restraint against evildoing, as a help to bring individuals to Christ, and as the believer's guide to godly living. Now for us, the new believers, we are not "under the Law" because, we are no longer under the Ceremonial aspect because this has been fulfilled in Christ, we are not under the Jewish civil law, because it is not intented for us,
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


but against "Legalism" that perversion of the law which says that salvation can be obtained by keeping the law. The Judaizers were attempting to persuade the Galatians believers to mix salvation by "grace with salvation by law" two complete different believes. If you read that Paul traced Israel's history, showing that believers from Abraham on had been saved by grace, and that no one ever could be saved by keeping the law, since the law was not meant to bring salvation.
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


as a guide to right living before God (Romans 3:31 Romans 6; 1 cor. 5; 6:9-20) As Eloy has stated. In the New Testament as well, obedience is never considered an optional part of the believer's life. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments" and said "If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love. now that we know the aspects and purposes of the law we can better understand Paul's writing on the law. Paul arguments in Galatians were not against the law,
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


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to answer that is in the three aspects of the law, ceremonial, judicial or civil laws, and the moral aspect of the law. Now the moral aspects of the law reflects the moral nature and perfections of God. Since God's moral nature remains unchanging, the moral law remains unchanging and is as important for the believer today as for the believers to whom it was given. The Christian is dead to the condemning power of the law (Romans, 8:1-3), but still very much under its command of obedience
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


was saved on the basis of his faith, not his works, and the subsequent verse 13-16 teach that the promise was extended to Abraham's descendants, not on the basis of their works, but because of their faith. Now comes the question, "How then do we understand Paul's teaching that we are no longer under the dominion of the law (Romans 6:14; 7:4) but have been delivered from it (Romans 7:6) because Christ has fulfilled the righteousness of the law in us?
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


their journey in the desert. Third, the law was given after Israel had, as a body of believers, made a commitment to serve the Lord (Exod. 19:8). Thus the law was given, not as a means of justification, but as a guideline for living after Israel's commitment to serve the Lord. The New Testament informs us that the law could never serve as a means of salvation. Paul teaches that no one can earn righteous standing before God by the works of the Law (Gal.3:11,21,22). Romans 4:3 teaches that Abraham
---lupe2618 on 7/13/05


".. THE law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." (Hebrews 9:22). The shedding of blood is necessary for the forgiveness of sin because LIFE is in the blood (Genesis 9:4). The Bible says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). This literally means the payment for sin is life (or the giving up of life). Only Jesus's life was pure, without sin, therefore only His blood could pay the penalty for sin.
---DoryLory on 7/13/05


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PART ONE:
Emcee,
There is no assumption at all. This is clearly stated in scripture.
God freely and willingly applies the benefits of his sons sacrifice to all who will trust in that sacrifice. Romans 3:24-25, "BEING JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past," see also Rom 2:15
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART TWO:
The Old Testament sacrifices were only effective in fulfilling the requirements of the law (obedience) resulting in the purification of the flesh but could not actually remove the sinful nature or cleanse the conscience. They had to be repeated continuously because it was about the doing (fulfilling the law) not the believing. People were not saved however by performing the sacrifices but rather by their faith that one day the ultimate sacrifice would be provided (the messiah).Rom 4:3.
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART THREE:
In spite of being ceremoniously cleansed, they were still in bondage to the law of sin and death as Paul called it and asked who could deliver him from it. The answer? Romans 7:25 8:2, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord...
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART FOUR:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

The author of Hebrews makes it clear that the sacrifice of Christ was totally sufficient and NEVER TO BE REPEATED.
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


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PART FIVE:
If we insist that the sacrifice of Christ must be continually repeated (i.e. The Catholic Mass) we reduce it to the level of the sacrifice of bulls and goats. Hebrews 9:12-14, "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean,
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART SIX:
sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Hebrews 10:11-14, "And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered ONE SACRIFICE for sins FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God;
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART SEVEN:
For by ONE OFFERING he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Forgiveness is total and complete. There is no concept of earning forgiveness (penance, purgatory etc.) otherwise; it would be a reward not a gift. (Rom 4:4) We either stand before God forgiven, redeemed, righteous, sanctified etc. (because that righteousness is not our own but Christs) or we stand condemned to Hell..
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


PART EIGHT:
We have nothing to offer God. Not church attendance, participation in worship in what ever form it may take, sacraments etc., nothing.

Our only plea is sufficient - the blood of Jesus on our lives. Hebrews 10:17-19, "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest (the very presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,"
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


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PART EIGHT:
We have nothing to offer God. Not church attendance, participation in worship in what ever form it may take, sacraments etc., nothing.

Our only plea is sufficient - the blood of Jesus on our lives. Hebrews 10:17-19, "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest (the very presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,"
---Bruce5656 on 7/13/05


The only thing that can wash away sin is the shedding of pure blood; Old Testament blood sacrifices were a foreshadowing of Jesus' crucifixion. Jesus was sinless and, by dying on the cross, innocent blood was shed to atone for the sins God knew we would commit in our lifetimes. This is in the Bible and nothing in the b/ible is wrong.
---Heather on 7/13/05


Only the sins which are confessed, and asked to be forgiven of, and completely forsaken are forgiven: All other sins, past and present and future, will remain in unremission. Only after you cease from sin is pardon given; thus if you stay in sin, then there is no grace, but only a looking forward to God's fury and condemnation.
---Eloy on 7/13/05


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