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Are Abortions Acceptable

Is there a Christian case for Abortion unsantified reprobate conceptions when brought to full term are Increadably Dangerous. That is how the Antichrist will get his army. What was created unholy can never become holy.

Moderator - No adoption is always an option or keep the baby. Have you ever heard James Robinson testimony?

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 ---phia4633 on 7/23/05
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Psalms 106:38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
Psalms 106:41 And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them.
Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
---exzucuh on 6/18/07


Jhn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends, what say our own child Jesus did it for you, that you may have life both in the physical but more important Spiritually so you would not be a victim of the second death.

Murder was never an Option, who knows whether you will die or not Have you faith?
---Carla5754 on 6/18/07


Abortion is always murder and a violation of God Law. If a woman's life is truly in danger and the necessary medical treatment for the mother results in the untimely but unintended death of the unborn child, then that is not murder, and is acceptable within the Catholic Church. But if the intent is the kill the child, that is always wrong.
---lorra8574 on 6/5/07


First I would say that if a mother's life is truely in danger, then and then, I believ the Lord would not consider it murder
I think that the statement about "reprobate conception" being dangerous etc a very "cold" statement, even "hateful" not what I would expect from a loving person.
---Pierr7958 on 6/5/07


Abortion is Murder. God hates when you shed innocent blood.
---Leslie on 12/31/06




There are cases where women have been told the child they are carring have been Downs Syndrome, and were told to terminated the unborn child, as explained to my sister the woman refused the baby was normal. As my sister reached to the 7th month with the same fate she was offered an abortion she refused, she was still persued by the Dr's to abort and refused contantly feeling pressured the whole church prayed all the way through, the baby was born with the syndrome but has no defects.
---Carla5754 on 7/28/06


Does anyone know what those versus mean? I don't understand. Was/is God really okay with abortion?? Am I not understanding it the way I should. Please help.
God bless,
Sue
---sue on 7/27/06


Jack -

there you have it...if you believe in a literal translation of the bible, then the bible says it clearly that abortion is ok.

But if you look to the real meaning of the bible, then you may see things in a truely holy way

teach love
---frank_cos on 7/26/06


>>My 'friend' said in the Bible God okay'd abortion and actually ordered it. Is this true? >>

Sue, there's a passage in the Torah about two men fighting, and a pregnant woman gets injured in the fracas and loses the baby. It goes on about proper restitution.

This is as close as the Bible gets to mentioning abortion. (I'm not sure whether this would be considered induced abortion, or spontaneous abortion, commonly called a miscarriage.)
---Jack on 7/26/06


When a fetus is formed, life is formed. It is different from any other creation because God's breath exists in that life. To take this life is to commit murder. Wouldn't you agree?
---theoeys on 7/26/06




There is no Christian case for abortion, except maybe when the life of the is in imminent danger.

In this case, we are looking at the complex issue of a life for a life, and perhaps the unborn child can be looked at as the attacker.

Note I said "Perhaps" and "Maybe".

And just what do you mean by "unsantified [sic] reprobate conceptions"? Do you even know yourself?
---Jack on 7/26/06


Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the their women with child shall be ripped up. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be ripped open.
These are what my friend showed me. What do they mean? PLEASE help. God bless.
---sue on 7/26/06


Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another mans child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him. In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
---sue on 7/26/06


Sue:: A miscarriage is an act of Nature.
Abortion is an act by a human,based on choice & hence a SIN & MURDER of one of Gods Creations,using the method he has gifted us with for HIS purpose of Procreation.Thou shalt Not Kill.
---Emcee on 7/26/06


Sue ... I have never heard any such suggestion, even from the most liberal Christian, or from sceptics. Did your friend tty to produce evidence for her claim?
---alan8869_of_UK on 7/26/06


Sue, if your friend told you this why don't you just ask her or him to show you the appropriate verse/s? I hope this 'information' hasn't from someone who would benefit from you having an abortion.
---emg on 7/26/06


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Please help me. My 'friend' said in the Bible God okay'd abortion and actually ordered it. Is this true? If it is where in the Bible is this? I will try to find it. I hope it isn't true. If it is somebody explain it to me. thanx, God bless.

Moderator - Of course not. Take the Abortion Bible Quiz.
---sue on 7/26/06


Abortion is and will always be a sin.
---tonya3849 on 7/26/06


Abortion is a sin. It is the killing of an inocent baby. Psalms 139:14
We are all born with a sin nature, because Adam disobeyed God. Genesis 2:16,17 3:17 Romans 5:12
Jesus didn't have a human biological father. Matthew 1:18,20
Jesus didn't have a sin nature. Hebrews 4:15 9:28
We can't tell whether a baby or an unborn baby will believe in Jesus as his or her saviour or reject Jesus. John 14:6
How we are conceived doesn't deternine if a person will believe in Christ as saviour or not.
---Ulrika on 8/16/05


Seems we will demand our rights and refuse others the right to think and do otherwise--not support a "right" they do not agree with. I see abortion as wrong. I do not see it as a right at all. Yet many want to force me to provide the means through my tax money so they can have an abortion. Don't I have the right to say No? I believe that true rights find their source in God. Ignoring this truth, then we try to find "rights" to steal, kill, covet, murder, commit adultery, etc.
---Wayne87 on 8/6/05


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Rick, sorry that I made my position so easy to be misunderstood. I see the freedom God gave to us all through His precious gift and contrast that with the spirit exhibited during the Dark Ages, by religions in many countries and cultures. Many claim the "right" to do whatever they want--kill, steal, lie, covet. An amazing thing is that as soon as they discover a "right," then they want others to actually provide the means for them to exercise this so called "right!"
---Wayne87 on 8/6/05


Anon, you discribe it right. How can anyone justify that kind of killing? I can believe the unbeliever because he lives by no rules and for himself, but not Christians. Like you said, God forgive us for our conduct and what we are teaching the next generation. My grand kids are going to be in a mess because of what we have done.
---lupe2618 on 8/3/05


Wayne, we do not have the right to force our choices on others, not even the unborn. A woman even has the right to do with her body what she chooses, but not the childs body within her. With the exception of a health issue that would cost her her life if she continued to carry the child. You are correct in that we have the choice to worship in our own way, or even not at all.
---ken on 8/3/05


Wayne, I agree with that statement. I completely misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry brother. That's what's great about our God, he does give us so much freedeom. Something you won't see in Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism, or any cult.
---Rick on 8/3/05


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Let me put it this way. Is it wrong for someone to have another god before the One true God? I believe it is, but I am simply saying that I will die to give you or anyone else the right to worship any god or no god at all. Freedom and the inalienable rights endowed by the Creator are to me most precious and the very essence of our greatness. I do not believe that abortion is a right. I do believe freedom to choose whom one would worship is a right.
---Wayne87 on 8/2/05


Wayne, you had the right to choose to do wrong even before salvation. You may want to think about the attitude. Why do you want to do wrong. You were bought with a price, the precious blood of Christ. He loves us when we do right or wrong. But Abortion is murder. I cannot understand anyone who names the name of Christ wanting to do that.
---Rick on 8/2/05


The wages of sin is death. Likewise when we mean by "right" the privilege to break the law without there being bad results, then you are correct. Man has no "right" to sin. My point is that Jesus died to give every one freedom--the right to choose to follow Him, or to reject Him. True freedom can remain only within law keeping, yet true lawkeepers will die to protect the freedom for each to choose.
---Wayne87 on 8/2/05


What do we mean, We do not have the right to do wrong? Do we mean that God did not give you freedom to choose? Usually when we talk of a "right" to something, we mean they are "allowed", "free", or "able" to do something without force or coercion. If the Son has made us free indeed, then are we not free to choose the wrong? The right to choose wrong is not the same as the "right" to choose wrong without there being results to that choice.
---Wayne87 on 8/2/05


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We do not have the right to do that which is wrong.
---Rick on 8/2/05


Ken, I understand your point and agree, but would add that Christ died to give us all the privilege (right) to choose good or evil for ourselves. What many people want is the privilege (right) to sin without accepting results (death). God did not give His Son so man could be free to sin without there being results.
---Wayne87 on 7/30/05


What was created unholy can never become holy? I guess we are all in trouble, cause we are all unholy, and what Christ did to make us holy did not work. Is that what is being said here? If the pregnancy is going to kill the woman, that is the only reason why I think it would be ok. However you look at it, you are playing God, and take away a gift from God.
---geraa7578 on 7/27/05


am I reading this correct? phia, that if a woman is raped or whatever, her baby has no soul?? that her baby is pure evil? and will go to hell? What kind of God is this?
---sue on 7/26/05


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We dont have the right to do what is wrong.
---ken on 7/26/05


God in his wonderful glory gives us free will and by His example guides us the way He wants us to go. Satan wasn't "aborted" and our omnipotent God "allowed" Satan to survive, how can we in good conscience say a child should be aborted no matter the circumstances? Most christian know the scripture where God says he knew us before we were created in the womb. Good or Evil we have no right to judge an unborn child or justify an abortion. God alone has that right.
---Becky on 7/25/05


Pharisee ... Hitler aborted Jews, killed orphans, anyone slightly abnormal. An evil evil man. He would have loved to have this idea of reprobate conceprion. No charge!
I thought the voodoo comment more appropriate actually, because of the idea that by magic the innocent offspring of an illegimate partnership became irredeemable
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/25/05


"Hitlerian" Now that's a SCREAM of an expression...Thanks for that one Alan, (I'm still laughing) I'm going to use it one day if I don't have to pay you.

God Bless you Brother.
---Pharisee on 7/24/05


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Brother Alan, I sure am with you on this one. I would give the same answer. I believe that way of thinking is just so way out. Hope she changes her way of looking at these matter cause it is so serious,
---lupe2618 on 7/24/05


Phia ... sometimes you talk sense ... on this subject you ... oh words fails me. Hitlerian & voodoo spring to mind. Unsanctified conception & reprobate conception ... where did you get these unholy ideas?
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/24/05


Partial birth abortion, Cervix dilated, abortionist uses ultrasound, see what he is doing, using forceps to locate baby's foot, turn to breech position. Using forceps, pulls baby's foot down into birth canal, pulls other foot through with his hand. Delivers baby where head remains inside uterus. Forces tip of a pair of BLUNT CURVED METZENBAUM SCISSORS into base of baby's skull, spreads the scissors to enlarge opening. Suction out the baby brain and deliver dead baby. (Acceptable?)God Forgive Us.......
---anon on 7/24/05


Have read "Gianna" Story of "Jessica Shaver"
She was aborted and lived to tell about it.
How can you say a child is unholy because of how it is conceived? This child does not choose to come into the world this way.
Each and evbery child is a gift from God who creates all living souls. If something unholy can not become holy than what about non-christians who become christians?
Does God not forgive and cover us with his blood?
---M on 7/24/05


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Whenever a precious little one is born in whatever circumstance, the Lord Jesus blesses them. They come from God. It is up to us believers to teach them about the love of God whether they have believing parents or not. Let's get on with it and be sure they know Him, love Him and are dedicated to Him....with everything that is within us! That is the perfect will of the Father. We MUST extend our hands in love. I've had several foster children myself and wouldn't have traded it for the world!
---Elsie on 7/24/05


(Part2) if it is a life then it is a life wether conceived by rape , incest ,or in a loving christian marriage , and if it's not a life then it is not a life wether conceived by rape , incest , or in a loving christian marriage . . . the circumstances do not change the value of the feotus. It is simple , if it is a life it is a life and this is an unchangable fact and if it is not a life , then this too is unchangable. and thus the only relevant arguments are those that establish when life begins.
---BeckyH on 7/24/05


(*Part 1*)When talking about abortion the only point that really matter's is determining wether the feotus is a life or not. If it is NOT a life , then do with it what you will. If it is a life then it must not be destroyed. and so the argument really comes down to "Is this a life" , not: is abortion acceptable under certain circumstances
---BeckyH on 7/24/05


There is no scriptural basis for the idea that those not from a holy union are thus unholy and doomed to be so for eternity. If this were true then Christ's blood means nothing.
---BeckyH on 7/24/05


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I like the words of Billy on this issue.

All the Bible people serve God's purpose(Psalm 139 especially verses 15-18)
including John 9:1-12 - a man born blind

......but this has happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. As long as it is day, I(Jesus) must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I(Jesus) am in the world, I(Jesus) am the light of the world"
---barbara67 on 7/24/05


"My own ideas"....?

My own idea is that for most of my life my own decisions on morality were horribly wicked.

For a long time I didn't believe that, and so I didn't see a need for salvation because I thought I was a good person.

When I first met Jesus he was radical, he took what I called acceptable and showed me it was heartless and empty.

Trying to follow him in all that he has shown me has been all the evidence I've ever needed to admit that it was true.
---Pharisee on 7/24/05


"God awards Spirit Essences only to Sanctified Conceptions"

FALSE.

It's not an award, there is no discrimination with God, Jesus said so himself. (Matt 5:48)

God's love is perfect and a child produced without "spirit essence" is still born.

I'm not trying to jump on you for what you believe, I'm trying to show you that you've been mislead.
---Pharisee on 7/24/05


"lack of a normal maternal instinct."

There is only a "lack of maternal instinct" when the maternal instinct is poisoned by resentment from within.

Seriously, this isn't some chemical problem due to an unconsented sperm.

This is a direct violation of our Lord's command to forgive and not a "lack of maternal instinct."

Forgiveness is possible with the power of God inside you. Murder is possible when you harbor excuses for unresolved hatred.
---Pharisee on 7/24/05


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I don't see how the endorsement of infantacide is an exercise.

This is obviously something you think is ok.
NO CHILD is born without a soul, that's complete and total NON-SENSE.

The Bible makes it clear that children are formed in the womb by the hand of God with loving care according to HIS DESIGN.

Saying that an ill begotten child will grow to be evil is not something that you can prove true and therefore your justification of this position is futile.
---Pharisee on 7/24/05


Scripture tells us that children are a gift and a heritage from the Lord. He didn't say "some children" or "the children we wanted". He made no exceptions. Should we then call Him a liar or a fool, and say that we know better than He does who should live and die? Should we spit in His face and reject the gift because it didn't arrive under the "right" circumstances? God forbid! The theory you describe is a wicked, un-Christian lie, regardless of where you heard it.
---Billy on 7/23/05


What are we to say about God's statements that he "knew us from the womb", that John the Baptist leapt for joy in Elisabeth's womb when he heard Mary speak, and other such references? Can we doubt that God views an unborn child as fully human, and therefore under the protection of the Commandment against murder? To say otherwise does violence to the entire fabric and theme of Scripture.
---Billy on 7/23/05


phia4633: If you're the least bit interested in the truth read, aloud, Psalms 139. Please allow God to search your heart & deliver you from a perilous evil. For your soul's sake, praise God. Don't raise hell.
---Leon on 7/23/05


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Furthermore, nothing in Scripture even HINTS that sanctification has anything to do with the circumstances of one's conception. By the logic of Signification, EVERY child born of rape, incest, etc. would be damned without hope or not even human to begin with. Too many saints of God have come from such circumstances. In fact, by your definition of a sanctified conception resulting from the sexual union of a loving couple, even Christ Himself was reprobate and soulless. Are you calling Him accursed?
---Billy on 7/23/05


First, I utterly reject the idea there are "sanctified" and "unsanctified" conceptions. God is the Father and creator of everything, including every single human being, and He creates nothing evil. Even Satan wasn't evil in the beginning, until he chose to be. For God to create a child who had no choice of being anything but wicked would make God into the creator of evil and thus evil Himself. That is an intolerable conclusion.
---Billy on 7/23/05


Murder is never acceptable.
---pat on 7/23/05


Dear pharisee, Right On!!! tina
---tina7868 on 7/23/05


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I am not interested in have you hear about such and so, I want you to thing, express your own Ideas. The exercise was not designed to be easy but were are off to a good start.

Moderator - What?
---phia4633 on 7/23/05


I see no Christian case for abortion in scriptures. Principles are revealed throughout the Word that do seem to bear on the subject. One verse that I have wondered if it sheds light is Exodus 21:22-25. Is this relevant? Certainly it seems totally sinful to take the gift of God (Ruth 4:13, Genesis 33:5, 1 Samuel 1:19-20, Genesis 16:2 & 17:16-21, Hebrews 11:11) and purposely destroy it. Is it love to God and our fellow man that leads us to sanction abortion?
---Wayne on 7/23/05


Phia ... I do not think that God has to defer to secular law.
By our legal system adultery is not a crime ... but it is a sin to God (and even if there were no God, against yuor proper partner)
---Alan8869_of_UK on 7/23/05


phia4633
Great rhetoric the only problem is it is totally Unscriptual.
This is no more than an excuse.
I shall be waiting to hear the twist you put on any Biblical references you will use.
Sounds like New Age baby murders on the march.
"Doctrine of Signification," and this is.......?
---Elder on 7/23/05


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This was presented to explore theological discussion on Signification and some the conclusions that can be derived from it. The 6th commandment is an invalid citation because you cannot murder something that has not been born and is not a legal entity. There is little or no scripture that you can objectively cite on this subject so you are going to have to explore your theology to come up with some operable answers and presentations. Lets hope that this can be good learning experience for all involved.

Moderator - If you think a preborn human baby isn't a human baby what do you think it is? As stated, abortion clearly breaks the ten commandments.
---phia4633 on 7/23/05


"What was created unholy can never become holy."

There's fundamental flaws in this thinking.

#1. No one EVER creates a child, God alone does that with what's inside you.

#2. The life was made for God's purpose, and if he made it who are we to say it shouldn't be made, or that it will amount to evil.

#3. Abortion is murder.

#4. What is unholy can be holy by the blood of Christ.
---Pharisee on 7/23/05


So what about ((Ethel Waters)) know about her????
---wayne on 7/23/05


Under the Doctrine of Signification

Major Premise: What was conceived by an Unholy means can never be made Holy.

Minor Premise: God awards Spirit Essences only to Sanctified Conceptions; and other conceptions are reprobate and soulless. When a reprobate conception is allow to be born and is soulless. This provides a perfect host system to be indwelled by pure evil with unpredictable results. Therefore there is a Christian Case for Abortion.
---phia4633 on 7/23/05


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Definitions for this discussion:

Sanctified Conception - Conception resulting from a sexual union of a couple who desire to have and nurture children as loving parents.

Un-Sanctified Conception - Conceptions resulting from other means, examples : Rape, Incest, Any conception where there is a total lack of a normal maternal instinct.

Moderator - You mean about 50% of all babies should be aborted. I don't think so, please read the 10 commandments.
---phia4633 on 7/23/05


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