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True Christian Men Put Down

Why are True Christian man put in the same group as abusers, adulters, leaving their families, bombings? Is it right to do that when we speak about our own relationships? Doesn't that hurt the body of Christ?

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 ---lupe2618 on 8/9/05
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True christian men are a rare commodity. Even then they are not perfect and neither are true christian women. We are all are subject to temptation and to the snares of the devil.We will never reach a level where we are sin-free in this world.I would not want a perfect tag placed upon me. Why? Because I know I cannot live up to this impossibility. I don't have to look for wrong things to do, as a christian. Wrong finds me everyday. The challenge is: to resist as Jesus told us to do.
---Robyn on 3/24/08


Pt4
Women are emotional ... they have not been designed to lead. They are designed to nurture and help. Men are designed for strength. It's only logical that strength would make a better leader than emotion. But with the leadship position comes responsibility. Men must practice and train themselves to put the needs of their family before their own. Because when it comes to family relationships, no one's going to follow someone who doesn't lead in love with a serving heart.
---DoryLory on 3/24/08


I have crossed paths with some decent Christian Men and let me tell you they are rare and unique. They are the best men a women will ever find. Thats why I would never settle for a non-believer. I know its the Spirit within them that makes them so attractive.
---Marcia on 7/11/07


Yes, a man with some sense will run from a woman has a bad attitude. Being honest, hearing a woman gripe or scorn ex husband or boyfriend...it only make me angry. Our media, work places, etc bashes men like it is nothing....Christians needed to set an example...men are a Creation of God and wonderfully made. There are good Christian men...praise them and be in pray for them.
---micha6835 on 7/11/07


, yes, we are still seeing good men put down by bitter women. whatever happened to being filled with the Holy Spirit?
---steve on 8/15/05




Christian men are being put into those categories because that is what is happening, statistically speaking the divorce rate among christians is the same if not higher than non christians. We all hurt the body of christ whenever we do things arent like him but that is also the exact reason He died...for the future sins and the past sins.
---Tama8745 on 8/15/05


Sister Ulrika, thank you for your answers. I wanted others to see what they say and be careful how they use the word Christian for man or for women. Many are not saved and we can tell by their conduct. It serves no good purpose when something terrible is happening in a marriage and mentioning first he or she was a Christian. We all know what a true Christian is. People make decisions, many times they are just bad ones, for whatever the reason. Peace to you and all women, like you said, love one another.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


Genesis 3:12-19 Adam blamed the woman, and woman blamed the serpent. All three were punished and generations there after.
We all have a sin nature, but if we are saved we should love eachother. Not hurting eachother by words or deeds. Forgiving eacher. If woman is in situation where she may be harmed she should leave and go to a safe house. All the name calling and anger on this site doesn't help spread the gospel. As a matter of fact it gives us a black eye.
---Ulrika on 8/14/05


those who blame women for man's downfall should think again.The spirit behind this belief is the same spirit (from satan) that has held women in bondage, oppression, violence and abuse since the beginning of civilisation. Hating and blaming women turn men into monsters and its all from satan so put the blame where its meant to be. Not on the mother of your children, your sister, your wife, your mother, your friend, your daughter. We are as vindicated as you men are.
---lisa on 8/14/05


"It was a woman that started the problems, remember EVE!" That is some generalization Randall. I think you'll find Adam had a bit to do with that also if you read the book. Who was it that God gave the instruction to? That apart, I don't think any of us should generalize about things. Each of us are individuals and as such are responsible for our own actions, be they good ones or bad, whether we are male of female.
---F.F. on 8/14/05




The bible says to try the spirits to see if they be of God. When someone talks about a true christian, their also talking about God. Not all men are in this group. There are alot of good men here on this earth, some are sinners and some are christians. My father-n-law is a good man, and will do anything he can for anyone, but yet he needs Jesus. He isn't a bad person, he would be a better person if he had God in his heart.
---Rebecca_D on 8/13/05


One woman may assume if a man goes to church or says he believes in God, he is saved. There are women who are hurting physically and emotionally. This does not give them the right to generalize, and say bad things about men who did not do such things. Unbelievers could get the impression Christian woman are full of hate and anger. We are comnanded to love one another. A house divided against itself can not stand. Matthew 10:13 Pray for eachother and forgive.Matt.6:14,15 18:21,35 Mark 11:25,26
---Ulrika on 8/13/05


I am wondering why you are classifying us men in such a rude way. It was a woman that started the problems, remember EVE! I am an honest man whoo loves the lord and am going to a christian church in Red Deer, Alberta Canada. I don't like it when us, men get classified as "DIRT". I am saved.
---Randall_Permann on 8/13/05


The quote may have been,
"Let the change I want to see in the world be me"
---Ulrika on 8/13/05


spelling correction, position of the head of the wife.
---Ulrika on 8/13/05


2. but what I do not understand is how she feels about liberal thinking. It does go against many of God's commands and rules. I believe many take a shallow look at what our salvation is. It is so important not because of what it does to us but to Christ's church. Anyway thanks for your answers. I do what to hear them.
---lupe2618 on 8/13/05


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Sister Ulrika, you have not hurt my feelings at all. I do want to hear from others and this is the way we learn what is happening around us. I can study Scripture all day long but knowing what others feel is important to me. I have a lot of respect for everyone, I have mostly run into problems with sister Madison but I know she has a reason for believing what she believes in. Her life is different then mine so I do understand that part.
---lupe2618 on 8/13/05


Sister Dory, thank you so much for your answers. I hope more people stop complaining and start working more closely with God. I wonder sometimes where their faith is at. It sure is lacking in many places. I hope to see more of your writings. I would like to hear from others what they have to say. Go ahead and like I said, throw the sink at me if you wish.
---lupe2618 on 8/13/05


3. Abiding under the power of any known sin is a mark of our being the servants of sin, for "His servants ye are to whom ye obey." A shallow view of salvation depreciates the doctrine of sanctification. When God saves someone, He promises to conform that person to Christ's image. It is a principle of grace savingly brought, whereby the heart becomes holy, and is made after God's own heart. A sanctified person bears not only God's name, but His image. Now look at what you read on the questions.
---lupe2618 on 8/13/05


2. Of what I have learned of Scripture, a lot of the church for Christ is corrupt. They, Christians, take a shallow view of the true meaning of salvation, many are quick to accept a person's profession, even if there is no evidence of any commitment to Christ. you see, if man does not live differently from what he did before, both at home and outside the home, his repentance needs to be repented of, and his conversion is a fiction. Not only action and language, but spirit and temper must be changed...
---lupe2618 on 8/12/05


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Ulrika, I believe you are going to another extreme on this. I do give advice and its on Scripture. I try not to get on the personal issues. many give advice and it could be wrong for the person they are telling. No one's life is the same so I try my best until Abortion came into the picture. I know that God has prepared me on His word and I count on Him to guide me. On personal things I am on my own, because its my feelings that give my opinion.
---lupe2618 on 8/12/05


With the possion of head of the wife, comes responsibility. Like if something goes wrong at work, my superviser is the one who has to answer for it.
After reading what the monitor wrote, I am reminded of a quote I read.
"Let the change I want to see in the world begin with me." Gandhi
---Ulrika on 8/12/05


Lupe, Are you saying the women in the blogs are responsable too? For what? For being in a relationship with an unbeliever? Or for being abused?
I haven't taken the time to read those blogs, so I don't what is said about their husbands or boyfriends.
One thing for sure there needs to be love for God and one another. Without love people don't care how they treat eachother, how they act, or what they say. They don't care who they hurt. If I hurt your feelings, I'm sorry.
---Ulrika on 8/12/05


Lupe, Maybe I was thinking of Elder, he does give advise.I think it is good to give advice based on God's word, our experiences, and teach by example. Some people don't get that in their up bringing.
---Ulrika on 8/12/05


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Pt1
Lupe - Re: You don't have to be taught how to love. It comes from Christ. It is all the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

Yes, of course, I agree, God is love and when His Spirit comes into our hearts, it is His love that works in us and changes us. He fills us with His love and enables us to love others.

BUT ... the Bible teaches that love is an action and therefore love must be demonstrated.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


Pt2
God doesn't want us to simply know that He loves us, He wants us to experience His love (Ephesians 3:19). He wants us to feel loved. Jesus "showed" the disciplies the full extent of His love (John 13:1).

It's the same way with us. What if you were to tell someone you loved them but never backed up your words with actions. Those words aren't going to mean much. Unless you also demonstrate your love and make that person FEEL loved, your words will be meaningless and empty.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


Pt3
THIS is the aspect of love that we often need help with. People are complicated beings. Not only because men and women are so different from each other and have different needs but also in the sense that we are all created unique, and each perceive and feel love by different standards. We all tend to want to demonstrate love by doing, the things that make us feel loved. But that isn't necessarily what your spouse wants or needs.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


Pt4
This is where I feel many husbands miss it. I think to a large degree, men don't understand how to make their wives feel loved and appreciated. They may sincerely do their best ... but when the wife doesn't respond, they shrug their shoulders and don't know what else to do.

I think that, because women are emotional they can be more complicated BUT it is possible for a husband to LEARN what it takes to make his wife feel loved and appreciated.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


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Pt5
And I'm not trying to say that women have it all figured out. The fact that men are generally easier to please ... they're not so emotional so they're not so complicated that way ... certainly works in our favor. But I also think, that the very nature of a woman ... as helpmate to her husband and caregiver to children ... has a bearing here. Demonstrating love is about giving of yourself, so I think the nature of a woman often gives her an advantage in this.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


Pt6
When husbands and wives don't understand the differences in each other (generally AND personally) they start feeling like they are taken for granted and the door will be open for all kinds of problems to develop. And it's all because one or both do not feel loved or appreciated. This is what I mean when I say "LEARN" to love. I'm not referring to the feelings of love but the demonstration of love.
---DoryLory on 8/12/05


, in the endless quest for freedom from accountability, feminists have lumped all men into categories of bad behavior; abusers, adulterers, simpletons. we need to stop letting ourselves be slandered in this way.
---steve on 8/12/05


I believe we are held acountable for our actions. When we repent and ask God's forgiveness, he does forgive. There are still consequences for our actions. Like when King David arranged to have Uriah killed by sending him to the front lines, just so he could have his wife. 2Samuel 11 and 12.
---Ulrika on 8/12/05


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3. Can some brothers and sisters come forward and correct me if I am wrong? I am willing to hear and listen to any advice if I am wrong. I know I came hard on some but it is only because it hurts me to see what some are going through over and over, and most of the blame is on Christian man, and not on themselves and taking responsibility for their mistakes. Asking for forgiveness and not doing it again. Thanks

Moderator - Regardless of gender, I agree we all must focus on ourselves and how we can change to be more Christ-like versus blaming someone else.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


2. No wonder they believe they can lose their salvation. The way they live I am not surprise they have doubts. How can they expect God to bless them if they are not submissive to God and continue to live in sin? You don't have to be taught how to love. It comes from Christ. It is all the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Sure our old nature is still there and satan is too, but we cannot blame satan when it is us that is doing the continued sin. I would like to hear from others because just maybe I am wrong.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


Ulrika and Steve - Thank you, I personally appreciate your contribution to this discussion. :)
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt1
Oh thanks for clarifying, Lupe! We are of the same mind regarding sin. I was confused when you kept mentioning true Christian and false Christian. I appreciate the time you took to explain!

I just want to say that I understand that there are many women who are spoilt and selfish and have all kinds of hang-ups and problems. I wasn't trying to say that women have it altogether.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


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Pt2
But in this blog I was wanting to speak for those who are just plain frustrated. I believe that these women, for the most part, just want to be the helpmeet of a Godly, upright, Christian man. All they want is a relationship based on Godly principles. And my personal feeling is, that frustration comes in when the husband doesn't understand his position and his role. And there you have it! Everything I have said in this blog until now, just summarized in one paragraph!
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt3
One thing I have noticed about men, my own husband included, is that when they accept their role of Godly head of the household, God pours out supernatural blessing and favor. Order replaces strife and confusion ... and frustration and bitterness leave. I believe this is what you experienced.

I have enjoyed our conversation here, you are a dear brother in the Lord!
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Ulrika, I am not a counselor and I am not giving advice to you or anyone. I am not teaching you anything or anyone else. I am stating something that I feel is going on against Christian man. I answer sister Dory because I know her and she answered me. When I hear what is going on in God's church it shocks me. It cannot be the Church God has for His Son. Everyone doing what they want so long as they give their lives to Christ.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


Lupe, aren't you a counselor? You like to give advise to people. Why do you counsel or advise, if you don't think people don't need to be taught, Being a husband and father is especially important. We can teach through sharing what we have learned from experiences and what we have read in the Bible.
I think generally speaking doing wrong comes naturally (sin nature), doing right is learned. The Holy Spirit teaches us also through people and the Word.
---Ulrika on 8/11/05


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You ask, a christian man can hit his wife without losing his salvation. Well I will answer this way. If he is a Christian man he will not hit his wife. He might want to hit her but he knows inside that he is not suppose to. When I said sin I meant habitual sin. A person that abuses his wife is a habitual sinner. so is a killer of babies, so are people sleeping with others without marriage. Total disobedience to God. He is where he started, in the world doing what he wants, under the prince of the air.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


4. Again, sister Dory, thank you for writing back. You have been great every time you write. I just hope that Christian man don't get bash so much by everyone. We are good people and we don't bomb anyone or abuse our wife's because we love the Lord way too much. As far as killing, a Christians heart is not for killing, that I am sure of.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


3. I brought the question because many say Christian man abused them. These sisters have to take responsibility for their actions and stop blaming others. I have read many blogs and I read the answers too. Others agree with them when they are in sin and in trouble because they are also in the same boat. Is this the church of Christ? Are true Christian man abusive? I don't think that is true. He might not be perfect but his love for Christ will show to his wife. I believe that with all my heart.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


2. Christ's love comes into our hearts and nothing but love should control our very souls. That we fail is true, but many are doing habitual sins. It is not possible to be a Christian and be in sin all the time. If someone is not living their life in submission to God then he or she hasn't made His calling valid. That person would be loving the world more then God. I have never heard of such things at least since I have been a Christian. I know others don't feel like I do.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


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Sister Dory, I don't believe that a true Christian can believe in the killing of babies. when the Holy Spirit is in a persons life, nothing but greatness can come from that person for a baby. If someone has to make a decision at the moment something happens in a rape, is one thing, but to believe that you are a Christian and vote for the right to kill babies to me is not possible. The Holy Spirit changes us to be better not worse. The Holy Spirit brings us closer to the Lord not running away from Him.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


It could be the person (man or woman) is carnal rather that spiritual.
Romans 7:14-25 8:1-9 Ephesians 4:21-32
At any case church and a christian website is a good for them to learn about God and his Word. I don't think it is up to us to judge if someone is a christian. Even in the old testiment the people where justified by their faith, not by being perfect. Hebrews 11:4-40 Romans 5:1 Titus:7 James 2:24,25
---Ulrika on 8/11/05


After my husband left, I had allot of anger. I blamed him for everything. I slowly calmed down and evenually came to the point where I could admit to myself that our failed relationship was partly my fault. I also learned the importance of forgiving him. Sometimes (just this week) old feelings and thoughts creep back. I think that is why Jesus said we should forgive 70 times 7. There is emotional healing to let go of the bagage or anger and resentments.
---Ulrika on 8/11/05


, we have rightly cast out stereotypes regarding blacks, chinese, jews, etc. let's do the same with bigoted views of men and what it means to be a male.
---steve on 8/11/05


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Proverbs has a lot of wisdom and teachings. Proverbs 22:6. Teaching of values and about God is very important for children. Often times we behave in relationships the way our parents behaved.
---Ulrika on 8/11/05


, as for dorylory's comments about men needing to evolve into what God wants them to be, from my experience, it is women who are more carnal and selfish. this is not always true, but generally i think it is from what i have seen.
---steve on 8/11/05


, the fact is, we are christians if what we believe shows up in our lives. one might lose their temper, but if it is an ongoing problem, it shows that they only have a "pretend" faith, and the Holy Spirit is not in them.
---steve on 8/11/05


Pt1
Lupe, God has done a tremendous work in you. You have an awesome testimony that gives hope to people's hearts!

When it comes to training up godly men and women the Bible says the older are to teach the younger. I'm sorry, I don't agree that it comes naturally ... perhaps for a few but not as a general rule.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


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Pt2
And lastly, I don't understand what you mean by false Christians and true Christians. If we are Christians only when we "act" like Christians then, I hate to say this but, I lost my salvation yesterday afternoon while trying to reformat my computer!

It's a horrible thought, but a Christian man can hit his wife without losing his salvation. It's true!
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt 3
He may have a messy situation to deal with, with his wife but as far as God is concerned, repentance is available to us when we blow it.

Our actions are never the deciding factor in determining whether we are saved or not. This idea that someone has to be perfect to be saved is not Scriptural. Salvation is NOT about what we do ... it is about what Jesus has done for us.

Bless you, Brother!
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Sad but true Christian men aren't exempt from making big mistakes in their marital relationships.As DoryLory said women are to be trained by older women,although it doesn't say it men should get their example of being a husband and father from their father.Children learn what they live.No positive male influnce in their lives makes them ill equiped for marriage.Marriage isn't about being boss or head,it's about loving enough to support each other in every way.Love lets go to hold on.
---Darlene_1 on 8/11/05


Dory, I don't take it personal. I know your answers are good, I just wanted to state some thing about us Christian man. I know I cannot change anyone. That is one lesson I did learn. I don't even try, each one of us has a different make, and understand different. You are a sweetheart and thank you for answering what I wrote. I guess the killing of babies is still bothering me. I cannot understand how Madison a Christian supposely, can agree with the murder of babies and justify it.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


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5. What I see that is wrong is not more lessons, but a true commitment to Christ. What they have has to be false, it cannot be what a true Christian is. If it is then I am terribly wrong. God changes us and makes us a new creation, He breaks us and we become humble. Realizing who we really are and who He is. It puts things in perspective.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


5. The questions on here from women and what they do, I have never heard of that before. I don't know what salvation has done for them but it sure is not the same that I have seen. I was shocked to read what they do. Have sex, in love with someone else's husband, want to leave their husbands, already living together with someone and want the ok from all of us, and most of all, the killing of babies. I mean murder. What kind of Christians are they? That is why I say something is terribly wrong here.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


4. I didn't have to go to school to learn how to be a leader, I already knew what the Bible ask of us. It isn't something that has to be put in our heads, we already know even before we are Christian but we do it for a different reason. Now we do it because we love the Lord so much. All the guys I know are the same. I don't know of ever meeting man at my two churches that are like the one's mentioned on the site. If there is anything man and women need is more of Christ.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


3. It seems that the nicer the man is the worse things get. People by nature take advantage of each other many times without knowing. When Christ came into my life His love was so powerful that nothing really mattered more in my life. The less I did for her the more she seem to want me after. When she left she was so powerful and angry and selfish, when she came back she was a different person. I didn't change her but God did. While I was learning about the Lord, He was making thing right in our lives.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


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2. That is why my marriage went down the tubes. I worshipped her. When God saved me, I was asked, who I loved more, God or my wife, and that is when I didn't know what to answer. You see Dory, a mistake man make is when they do worship their wife's. We can love them but they are never to be on the throne. God is. when I learned that, I was able to love God with all my heart. I loved my wife but never like before. I knew that if she took off again I would be fine because God would see me through it all.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


Sister Dory, thank you for your response on my answer. You are right that my wife and I were not Christian when we separated in 1990. I believe I was a good guy and always helped my wife and made dinner and cleaned house and just did everything so that when she got home she would not have to do anything. I worked too, but I got home before she did. I believe I love my wife so much that my whole life revolve around her. The more I tried the worse things got. She was my god and Jesus was not in our life's.
---lupe2618 on 8/11/05


Pt1
Lupe - I apologize if I've insulted you. I know you are a kind, gentle man, please don't take my comments personally. I was speaking of the adult male population as a whole, about the general nature of the male species. I'm not saying all men are like this. I know there are exceptions on both sides of the spectrum.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt2
I believe that because God has created men for strength (for self-preservation and as a protector and provider for the family) the very frame of mind that a man needs to accomplish this, often (not always, but I do believe often) interferes with his ability to think relationally (ie: how to relate to his wife). Perhaps I shouldn't have brought the subject up here, where there isn't much room for depth, but I am fascinated by the way God has created men and women so different.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


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Pt3
It likely has something to do with the fact that my husband and I are trying to raise up four Godly "men." I just know that when we understand these differences, we learn to compliment each other. But it does take understanding.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt4
In that respect, yes, I am absolutely aware that women need to be taught and trained (Titus 2). I'm 49 years old and have been married for 26 years. I like to think I have learned a few things over the years and I have shared with women in person and here on CNet. Perhaps because I was addressing women's issues those posts went by you.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt5
But in this blog I was hoping to convey some of the understanding I have about why women have a hard time with their husbands. So many women have needs that are not being met by their husbands and I was trying to explain why I believe this is so. By the way, if you think I'm hard on men, I strongly recommend that you NOT read any books written by Christian author, Karl Duff.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


Pt6
Lupe, it's awesome that you became a better husband and father when you came to Christ. If only that happened to all of us! There would be half the discontent women complaining on these blogs and the Christian divorce rate would be next to nil. But reality is that it doesn't happen that way for everybody. The reality is that for most of us marriage is a lot of hard work.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


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Pt7
Please correct me if I'm wrong ... it seems to me that you once said that you and your wife were not together when you came to Lord. Am I remembering that right? If I am right, I'm also wondering if you felt motivated to spend time in the Word learning everything you could about relationships and God's plan for marriage, as soon as you came to the Lord? In my mind that would be the normal thing to do but I'll wait for your reply before I say more.
---DoryLory on 8/11/05


3. I believe that it is instinct that takes over as to what we are suppose to do. No one told me or trained me to be a husband. My love for Christ is what changed me to be a better husband and better father and a better person. All the brothers I know don't go to class to learn how they should act. They know inside what the Bible teaches on it and just do it because they love Christ. There might be many man that take advantage of someone but these people are not Christian. Their fruits would show and do.
---lupe2618 on 8/10/05


2. How in the world do you know that? I also read that we need lessons or to be trained. Who is going to train us? Why is it that it is always about women? In your statements you didn't mention that women needed to know how to be submissive or to be trained too. Only that man need to be taught. I don't think anyone has to take lessons. I believe when the Spirit of God is in a person, that person begans to change, not just him but the women also. I believe when they work together in Christ,
---lupe2618 on 8/10/05


Hello sister Dory, I almost agree with you on all your postings 99.9% but on this one you did your best to explain about this subject and I know tried your best to be kind on us Christian man, I thank you for trying but I don't think you tried enough. Sorry. I believe with all your kinds words you still said the same things about us. You mentioned that by rule man instinctively don't know how to be leaders.
---lupe2618 on 8/10/05


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yes, God made man the head of the woman, and the enemy hates this, so he will do everything he can to accuse the man of being wrong. It makes me very indignant whenever i hear a so-called minister do any man-bashing like the world does. This is blatant sin. Man was NEVER made for the women, never. The woman was made for the man, she is to be the HELPERMATE for the man, not his reproach. So what are women doing to fulfill their purpose for creation? bashing the man? or honoring the man?
---Eloy on 8/10/05


Pt1
I wouldn't want to be a man for anything in the world. I just would not want the responsibility that comes with that position. Sometimes when my husband has a problem in this area, I tell him ... "It's not my fault God made you the leader. If you have a problem with your God-given responsibility and position, go to God." (And of course God always helps him.) The point is, the responsibility is his, whether he wants to own up to it or not, God holds him to it.
---DoryLory on 8/10/05


Pt2
The problem with Christian marriages, that I see, isn't so much physical abuse as emotional abuse which, I believe, stems mainly from a lack of men knowing how to be the family leader. As a rule, men do not instinctively know this. Most men don't instinctively understand that to love their wife as Christ loves the church means to be considerate (1 Peter 3:7) and to be a servant (Matthew 20:26) ... to put the needs of the wife and children before their own. This does not come natural to most men!
---DoryLory on 8/10/05


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