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Origins Of Prosperity Gospel

What are the origins of the prosperity movement (the 'health and wealth' or the 'name it and claim it' brigade as some call them)? I just cannot understand where they get some of their teachings from.

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 ---Paulette on 8/14/05
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The Health and wealth message is a complete lie.
Jesus condemns the rich, Luk.6:24, Luk.12:21, Luk 18:25, Luk 1:47-53

Kenneth Copeland is one of the devils angels (an angel is a messenger)the devils message is fulfill the flesh.

The message of Christ is deny the flesh, take up your cross daily(tell the truth, about repentance or burn in hell)and you will be following Jesus, Luke 9:23

this is love
2john6
---joe on 6/5/09


The Health and wealth message is a complete lie.
Jesus condemns the rich, Luk.6:24, Luk.12:21, Luk 18:25, Luk 1:47-53

Kenneth Copeland is one of the devils angels (an angel is a messenger)the devils message is fulfill the flesh.

The message of Christ is deny the flesh, take up your cross daily(tell the truth, about repentance or burn in hell)and you will be following Jesus, Luke 9:23

this is love
2john6
---joe on 6/5/09


Bobby3-
Some people do not prosper financially in life (not because of faith or lack thereof), but because of motive. Take Jesus and the rich man - the rich man said he kept all the Commandments, but still wanted to know how to get eternal life. Jesus said to him "sell all you have and give it to the poor" - the rich man walked away sad. He had broken the first two Commandments on idolity - money was his god (not God). Some people will make money their god if they prosper - so God does not give them any until they learn how to properly handle it.
---Leslie on 10/1/08


Also, in the OT , Israel under Theocratic LAW were promised earthly blessings attached to the physical earthly land through obedience.

Many today, claiming the Church has replaced Israel and their blessings claim those promises and falsly apply to themselves, not realizing OUR (the Church ) blessings are in Heaven, and our riches are IN CHRIST.

Colossians 3:1-4 is what the TRUE Church, the TRUE body of Christ obeys. ALL else are actually enemies of the Cross....Philippians 3 AGAIN, makes this clear.

Much of the roots of the prosperity gospel came from Norman Vincent Peale....the power of positive thinking. NVP denied the Deity of Christ, and his teaching is humanism.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/08


This comes from Satan. John 8:44, and is spread by his servants who are masquarading as people of God, 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, and Romans 1:18-32.
---Rob on 9/30/08




Leslie: What would you say, then, to someone who is NOT receiving financial blessings? Would you question the faith of such a person?
---Bobby3 on 9/30/08


The Prosperity Gospel and the Name and Claim It Gospel start out by using Scripture, but then move to twisting scripture for their own benefit. Yes, God wants us to prosper in every area of life (including finances) - and you must give to recieve. Yes, God tells us that we can have what we say (if we speak to the mountains). However, when you focus on stuff (things) that is when it becomes unBiblical. Jesus said to seek FIRST the KINGDOM of God, and all these THINGS WILL be ADDED to you. In God's aconomy, when you are a part of the Kingdom, you don't have to worry about stuff - it just automatically comes your way.
---Leslie on 9/29/08


Their beliefs come from the Bible.

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers." (3 John 1:2)

"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore, I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it and it will be yours." (Mark 11:23,24)

Moderator - However, DoryLory it must be the will of the Father. Key part of the scripture left out.
---DoryLory on 9/28/08


Lupe posted 36 X on this blog, WOW.
What happened to that guy?
---Diane on 6/8/07


lupe....sometimes people just post these big posts on this website because if you met them in person you would find that they just like to hear themselves talk!!!!
---Sally on 8/30/05




sister Sally, it is our option what you should do with your life as a Christian. Your remark speaks greatly about what you are studying. Thanks for that one. No one can make another do or understand what God wants them to know only He can. It is their own personal relationship with Christ. I am never afraid to speak about the Truth. If I don't have it correct I will continue to search. I am not there yet Sally.
---lupe2618 on 8/22/05


lupe, Some of us do not wish to "debate" as we studied for ourselves for many years and we stand by what we believe. We don't have to spend all day studying because we are too busy spending all day working for the Lord until He returns.
---Sally on 8/22/05


DoryLory you are such a gracious person. Thanks.
---Elder on 8/20/05


Sister Dory had the answers on how to fight the enemy in her answer to, "Can the devil see our future" in her four part answer.
---lupe2618 on 8/20/05


I don't know where those labels began, but prosperity & health should'nt hinder one's anointing or spiritual man [III Jn.2].

Many have/are "perishing for lack of knowledge" in these area's, even dying before their time.

Tithing, free will offerings, etc, are proven "investment" methods when done scripturely!

Look at the return the fishes & loaves produced!

Time, people, helps are also means of tithing!

Bottom Line?
YOU CAN'T BEAT GOD GIVING!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 8/20/05


Oh I forgot, I am interested on what you write and I know everyone else is too. How else can we know each other also? We might not believe what each other believes in everything but we have the essentials of the Christian faith the same, and most of all Christ. Now all we need is to learn more. We are half ways there but not yet there.
---lupe2618 on 8/20/05


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8. I didn't believe a lot of stuff from Pierr in Revelations, but he was right. I have just finished studying it. I love you sister Dory, you and every sister and brother out there, also Madison too. If I can make one difference out there, just one, it will multiply, all for the glory of God. I hope we continue debating and learning, To everyone else peace.
---lupe2618 on 8/20/05


7. Doesn't anyone question why if the faith to believe comes from God in the first place, they believe they make the choice? How can they make a choice if they have to have the faith to believe in the first place? Soon, they will believe the faith comes from themselves, and everyone will except that too. We need to know if it is right or not, truth or no truth. The essentials of faith on in the balance, Does man get credit for choosing God or does God get the glory? See how important this is?
---lupe2618 on 8/20/05


6. I myself have learned a lot from many here. It has put me alert to study, to pray, to understand others thinking. I know more people lately are going to the word because they know the scriptures. They ring them out and that is great. Some have grown since they join. Dory, we are one body in Christ to help each other. If someone is going wrong wouldn't you want to tell them? Just look at the Sovereinty of God. One doctrine that just about no one believes in.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


5. I believe everyone here is sincere and honest and good, but been good does not make us all right. We need to know the truths of Scripture or not know it at all. I check everything Bruce and others write. Even when I don't answer. I have made a mistake in answering some that are personal that I shouldn't have. But my purpose here to debate and make the other person work hard in looking things up. If someone loves the Lord with all their hearts they will want to know the truth.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


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3. I really don't know, she might just blow them away or not. Its like the answers I give on once saved always saved, I gave Pierr many scriptures that are plain to see, Straight from Christ on our security. So I get back three scriptures and all of them have to be interpreted. They are not like all the ones I give. But yet many here don't want to believe because of what they believe already. If someone is serious about learning the truth they will look to make sure if I am right or not.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


3. Dory, I love what you write, I just saw what you posted on another question and I began to look the verses up. I want to check everything. I want to make sure the believer is reading what they put down correctly so I can answer it. I have spend all day look through all the reference books and hermeniutic books I have to answer Ulrika so that I can do it correctly. She might not like my answer but then again she might. Maybe if she is serious she will also look to find out, or she will get angry too.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


2. I am not attacking you, I am giving a reason why I believe they are wrong. Everyone else is also. I began to put your name in my answers because I was afraid I might say something that you would not like. I am trying to be careful so I don't hurt anyone's feelings. But just think how important the answers are. If someone cared to find out they would look to make sure what is said is true or not. We need to make sure we are doing the right thing. I posted the questions on demons for a reason.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


Sister Dory, I very much like to debate this subject and all of them. I put a lot of work to check and recheck everything before I send it now. I don't understand why because I think it is cultic and I say it is you would get angry with me. That means we cannot say something when we see it our way because we are worried someone will get angry or not. I see what is said to Eloy, Ruben, Emcee, Madison, and many more about issues they stand for I do it myself. this issues are important to everyone.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


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Lupe, why do you want me to get involved in this discussion? AND why would I want to get into it? You've accused me of believing things I never said I believed ... you called my beliefs cultish ... you've insinuated that I'm incapable of determining what is Scriptural and what isn't.

I have sincere doubts that you or others here are interested in my opinion on this subject except to attack my remarks and my beliefs. I'm just not interested in that type of discussion at this time.
---DoryLory on 8/19/05


4. God in His infinite wisdom knows exactly what adversity we need to grow more and more into the likeness of His Son. He not only knows what we need but when we need it and how best to bring it to pass in our lives. He is the perfect teacher or coach. His discipline is always exactly suited for our needs. He never over trains us by allowing too much adversity in our lives. many times that adversity comes from God.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


3. many times we read or hear what others say about a story or verse, but the message has a totally different meaning from God. We use the applications we want and go away from what the meaning in the story was for. Your answer is what I was going to put down on the one of the demons, maybe a little more then you, but the same meaning. Note that Paul didn't attempt to bind, rebuke, or cast out this satanic messenger. He simply prayed to the Lord for its removel.
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


2. for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me-to keep me from exalting myself. 2 Cor. 12:7. Here it shows that the Lord can and does sometimes afficts us when He wants something done in our lives. Believing that we can just ask for something and God will give, does not go with what God has purposed to do. We don't know many times why we are in a mess or why we have an illness or why we are poor,
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


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sister Dory, I love what you wrote on, "Can the devil read our minds." I believe just what you wrote and what to do to combat the enemy and his demons. that is my answer to the one that I posted on demons and can we talk to them and cast them out. You see In my opinion, if you look at the problem Paul had when the Lord permitted Satan to afflict the Apostle Paul. Paul evidently struggled with pride, for he said, "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,
---lupe2618 on 8/19/05


I heard a tv preacher say, "he was embarassed to see a (God is my giver) bumber sticker on an older car that was pretty ragged, wires holding the finders on, and rust, driving on the freeway. he said, "I wanted to buy that car and junk it before anyone seen it", and his congregation cheered. we have to pray that we don't become like that.
---wayne on 8/18/05


Elder - This wasn't the first time CN refused my submission ... I've been there before too :). The reason I said something this time was because the 1st half of my post was published but the 2nd part was not. I felt my opinion was not being correctly presented. If both parts would have been eliminated, I wouldn't have said anything. I'm sorry it sounded like I was complaining ... I was trying to be gracious. I did throw in a smile! ;)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Moderator - DoryLory and others please keep in mind sometimes we never receive the postings, therefore aren't blocking anything.
---DoryLory on 8/18/05


DoryLory I enjoy your writing to me so please take my advice on this one. Whenever you have a problem with CN please take time to write the staff personally and not publicly. There are many weak minded that will use your dissatisfaction for their purpose. CN will answer you.
I have been so glad that some of my "stuff" didn't get published I kissed the Cactus plant we have. That hurt less than if it had "made it." Maybe it was the Lord that didn't want it posted.
---Elder on 8/17/05


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A lot of what the so call "word of faith" movement teaches came from E.W. Kenyon. Copeland, Hagin, Hinn, Roberts, etc., all follow a lot of Kenyon's teaching. I'd like to see some of those prosperity teachers try to live in modest homes with modest vehicles to drive. I'd like to see them limit themselves to just two vehicles per household. That would be a sight to see.
---Sally on 8/16/05


4. but it was during those years that Manasseh was born. Had Hezekiah known, as God did, that in those 15 additional years he would father the most wicked king in the history of Judah, position his kingdom for plunder by the Babylonians, end up dying with his heart lifted up in pride, he might well have added these words to his prayer: "Nevertheless not my will but Thy will be done."
---lupe2618 on 8/16/05


3. and not ours. We would be in deep trouble if God gave us everything we ask for. The truth is that we often don't know what is best for us. A great Pentecostal scholar once said, "Our asking is based on our own limited knowledge, and all too often it is colored by our self-interest. We can only praise God that He does not answer every prayer, Prayed in faith." Hezekiah, after all, had his prayer answered and was granted fifteen more years,
---lupe2618 on 8/16/05


2. I pray before I write so that God helps me write what is truth and not my feelings. When I got into it with Randy and sister Madison I allowed my feelings to enter into what I wrote. I will do my best to not do that anymore. Liberalism is still against God's law. The salvation of the people that follow the faith movement is not in question. The Faith movements doctrine is. The sovereignty of God is an overarching principle of Scripture, and we ought to be thankful that this world is under His control
---lupe2618 on 8/16/05


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Hello sister Dory, my intentions are not to hurt the body of Christ but to bring to light what I know is truth. I would never say anything about someone if I didn't have the facts. It is so important to all Christians that we never deviate from the essentials of the Christian faith. I am not a Catholic but a reform Baptist. I am not against anyone but am call to bring truth. If I lie, God judgement is on me. I know the consequences very well and do my best to learn with an open mind.
---lupe2618 on 8/16/05


Moderator - Just noticing that you decided not to post the 2nd part of my last response. The thing that's interesting about that, is that you allow the Catholics to profess their beliefs but this you won't let pass. I don't feel that I said anything wrong but it is your website so it's also your call. Not to worry, I still love ChristiaNet and I shall get over it. Blessings! :)

Moderator - Never got it to be able to post it.
---DoryLory on 8/16/05


cont. The barefoot native missionaries are reaching more than the odd one or two and are planting new churches in many places they visit. People who have been worshipping idols for all their lives are finding Jesus through these beautiful people to whom PROSPERITY means the life we can have in Jesus not in our bank accounts.
---Paulette on 8/16/05


Cont. I'm certainly not going to name those who I think are fakes, that is between God and them but I think we should all be wary. I also think we should not assume that because a certain number of people at a convention sign cards there is proof that the same number have been saved. I don't like the numbers game really. Have you read the book Revolution in World Missions (which can be obtained free from from Gospel for Asia via Christianet? cont
---Paulette on 8/16/05


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"Do not touch my anointed ones ... " (Psalm 105:15). How many of today's prosperity teachers tell us that they are 'annointed' or pat each other on the back by telling us that so and so is a 'truly annointed preacher/teacher'. This word annointed is used too much these days. Just because someone tells us they are annointed does not mean that they are. The verse you quote DoryLory is referring to the genuine not the fakes. cont.
---Paulette on 8/16/05


Pt1
As I already mentioned in my previous post, Acts 5:38 says - "LEAVE these men alone! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin it will fail."

Approximately 15 or so years ago we Christians witnessed God "cleaning up" His church when certain ministers were exposed for erroneous operations & removed from their positions and ministries.

Moderator - It will fail in the end, however they may hurt millions in the process. As Christians we are suppose to teach the truth.
---DoryLory on 8/16/05


4. Read Matthew 7:21-23. It behooves us as Christians to be very careful who we believe and why. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...2Tim 2:15. The "prosperity" proponents may indeed be very good people but that does not mean they are preaching the turth. Beware!!
---marya4586 on 8/15/05


Sister Dory, sorry I wrote so much. I am sorry that I offended you in any way. It was not meant that way at all. Thank you for been a sweetheart, and nothing changes as far as I am concern. God has everything in His control. No matter what my opinion is.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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3. The one thing that really opened my eyes, was when I was asked to type out all of Mr. Copeland's prophesies from his magazines from the previous three years. As I typed, I realized that his prophesies had not been fulfilled and were full of errors. Deut 18:20-22....How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?..when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken...
---marya4586 on 8/15/05


2. Lupe is correct about its origins. I felt it was my responsibility to study them and test and see if they were true as I could not work for an organization that was spreading incorrect theology. I agree completely with everything Lupe has said. There is so much that is problematic with the "prosperity" gospel it would take a volume to write it all.
---marya4586 on 8/15/05


1. When the "prosperity" gospel first became popular, I worked for an organization associated with them - read dozens of books by their various proponents. I started to understand their beliefs and theology and "prosperity" is only the tip of the iceberg.
---marya4586 on 8/15/05


the reason we do so much as Christians is because of the Love we have for Christ and it hurts us when we see someone suffer, so we move forward to help because God is in our lives, and we do something God wanted us to do, but we do it without knowing it was God who moved us, All the time it was God doing the good. That is why acknowleding God when we do something is right. Because it is for His glory.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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Dory, it isn't God's will that many people suffer, but sin is in the world and God has dealed with it already. Things will continue to happen. Good Christians will die and it will go on until the Second Coming. God permits things to happen but all in His order. We are completing His order when we witness to others. Yet People will die when He calls them, whether young or old. Their purpose will be done and others go on to fulfill His will. He had to deal with sin from the very beginning.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


8 you have a reason to be born, and your son does too. Your mom had one and so on. Everything that is here and gone has had a reason for God. That He is not in favor of sin is true, but He allows it until He comes again but not without reason. The devil could have been stopped already if God had wanted. But His plan is not complete yet, many things still have to happen. No one knows the time or hour but it will be the exact time for God.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


7. Just look at the blind man in the story of Jesus in John 9:2,3 In verse 3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "But this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." Now here is a blind man that didn't ask to be born blind, but Christ told him for what reason he was born that way. We all have a reason even when we don't know what that reason is. As a parent you have kids,
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


6. He was sovereign before and still is and will be. Nothing happens by chance or fate. It cannot happen that way or else we would have no guarantee of our salvation. The providences of God are at work and His decrees will continue till He comes again and make things right. A change in His plan would change the outcome of what is to come. He has seen that plan and knows the outcome of that plan. That is why His promise are true.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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5. That there is resources enough for everyone is for sure. Do you think that things happen out of reason or out of control? That God just waits for things to happen and He doesn't allow it? That sin is roaming all over and without control from God? Or that He couldn't have stopped the terroist in Sept.11th? Satan might be ruling but not without God allowing him to go so far. He is but an instrument to God. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


4. It would take me a long time to explain what I want to explain but I still know it would not do anything to anyone that has faith in them. I believe that God knows all this and allows it to happen for a reason. I don't control anything so all I can do is speak on it. Many people are born poor and God allowed that. God has no problem with money to move His plan forward. Nothing stops Him from saving who He is going to save. We are but the instruments to His word.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


3. As frail mortals, we can only look on the outside, it is God who discerns the intent of the heart (Chronicles 28:9, Jeremiah 17:10. Scripture admonishes us in the strongest of terms to test all things by the Word of God and to hold fast to that which is good 1 Thessalonians 5:21; Acts 17:11. As Jude exhorts us, we must contend earnestly for the faith Jude 3. When someone is not speaking truth or truth mix with none truth then it is wrong. Mormons, J.W. and others cults, do the same thing.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


2. let me say first this faith movement is not charismatic or noncharismatic. It is cultic, which essentially means "cult-like." I don't expect anyone to believe everything I write or expect to change anyone, but when a movement denies one or more of the essential doctrines of historic Christian faith, then we do have to say something. Christ Himself, in His magnificent Sermon on the Mount, taught us not to judge sef-righteously or hypocritically.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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Sister Dory,I know this topic is a serious one are I wouldn't have answered. I know how so many feel about this and maybe because many have not researched what is happening within the church. I for one have done my best to learn not only about the early church doctrines but also of what is happening now within the church. I know of movenments also in latin countries and what they are doing. I try never to speak about something unless I have knowledge of it.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


Pt1
I believe that God's ultimate will for His people can be seen in places where man's will has not caused contamination (ie: Heaven and the Garden of Eden). I do not believe that pain, poverty or any form of suffering is God's ultimate will for His beloved creation because we do not see suffering in the places where His perfect will is performed. Not everything that happens here on earth, is God's will. Just because He allows it to happen does not mean He wants it to happen.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt2
God says, "FOR I am the Lord, I do not change" (Malachi 3:6). The God who created the Garden of Eden (and called His creation "perfect") is still the same God. He has not changed. When man bowed to Satan (which opened the door to suffering) it wasn't God's will. God told Adam, "Do not eat from that tree." -- That was His will.

Because we live in an imperfect world, we have pain and suffering. Unfair things happen to good people. But it isn't God's will.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt3
Regarding prosperity, it's a well known fact that there are enough natural resources on earth for every man, woman, & child to become millionaires. I don't believe God put those resources here so that one could hoard billions while another walks barefoot. The Word teaches that God has prosperity for us (and I do believe it's available for any who would believe Him for it) BUT I believe there are conditions that apply. God says, make sure your your soul is taken care of first (3 John 2).
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


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Pt4
I believe that God's goal in prosperity is primarily for the preaching of the gospel. It takes money to get the gospel to the masses. Who's going to finance that if not prosperous Christians?

Compare a beggarly missionary in India with someone like Reinhard Bonke in Africa. One can only win one or two (at the most a few) to the Lord at a time. The other, who has money backing him, can win millions to the Lord at a time.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt5
Most Christians sense that the end is very near. Yet there are millions and millions still to be reached. There aren't enough missionaries working one-on-one to get the job done.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt6
Regarding Benny Hinn ... I don't have an opinion of him because I don't listen to his program. I'm not one of his "followers" (for lack of a better word). I know he's gotten a lot of bad press recently. However, to me, there's something alarming about Christians, who base their opinion of other Christians, by secular media reports. The news media is renowned for stretching the truth & being outright deceitful and I'm sorry, I just think to take their word at face value is foolishness.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt7
I also suggest some of you carefully consider the Word of God regarding those who criticize ministers of the Gospel. I've posted this before but I'm going to repeat it here again because I think it's important.

The Bible says - "Leave these men alone! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men, you will only find yourselves fighting against God." (Acts 5:38,39)
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


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Pt8
God says - "Do not touch my anointed ones ... " (Psalm 105:15)
Jesus said - "Do not stop him ... for whoever is not against us is for us."
(Mark 9:38-41)
Paul said - "Who are you to judge someone else's servant?" (Romans 14:4)

If you have problem with a minister of the gospel, then pray for him and remember that those in the world will never glorify God or His servant.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt9
Lupe, I believe you have done Kenneth Copeland a disservice by quoting partialities and not balancing your opinion with any of the good he's done. (Which, if I may add, is exactly what the news media does.)

Dan Baker, an evangelist from California, has been coming up to minister here in western Canada and also in Alaska for several years now. He said to my face, "There is no one helping us small time evangelists, like Kenneth Copeland."
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


Pt10
Kenneth Copeland Ministries supplies them with airplanes, Bibles, materials and financial support. Exactly what I believe God's idea of prosperity is all about.
---DoryLory on 8/15/05


I believe this Faith movement concept of faith is unbiblical, and works as the New Thought Metaphysics. Metaphysical cults are by no means a mere coincidence. Kenyon, the real father of modern-day Faith movement, "majored" in metaphysics. His perversions were embraced and multiplied by Hagin, who presented Kenyon's concepts almost to the word. I'm sure I will hurt many out there with what I wrote, but I studied their movement for almost six years.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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Name it and claim it or blab it and grab it, is malarky. And the wresting of his word which says you have to sow seed (their corrupted definition= give us your money) in order to have it multiplied back to you is an insult to God. Seed sowing ONLY means planting of the gospel, which is "Go you all into the world and Preach the gospel to every creature...", which is evangelism or missionary work, and has NOTHING to do with money. You can't serve God and money. Jesus didn't ask for money.
---Eloy on 8/15/05


5. (which he says is an "eternal and living substance" residing in every believer), the word mystically penetrates "that veil in the holiest place that exists in heaven" and hovers there in the Holy of Holies. In time, the word that has pierced the veil undergoes a metamorphosis and becomes the very thing it represents. Of course, the yacht. Some of us will be better off then others but it doesn't have to do with our faith. Our faith is for the Lord, not for material things.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


4. I have walked in the houses of many Christians and they love this guy and have books on him. Also Kenneth Copeland. I know its a touchy subject but it is important to bring out their lies. many good Christians start believing such nonsense. Creative visualization. Copelands theology tells the believer first to see his 82 foot yacht; then he must stake his claim on Scripture; and finally he is to speak the word of faith. Carried along on the wings of hope
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


3. Tragically, this is precisely what the formulas of the Faith movement do. "Yes, declares the Lord, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, "The Lord declares." Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the Lord. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the Lord (Jeremiah 23:31,32.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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Let's challenge the "prosperity teachers" to ask a dying martyr on foreign soil who is tortured, dirty, underfed, in an overcrowded, stench-filled prison and whose family is suffering terribly from their belief in Jesus Christ, if prosperity teaching means a "hill of beans" to him or her in their hour of need. They are dying daily for the sake of Jesus and for us who take this religious freedom of ours for granted! When's the last time you heard a pastor preach on being a martyr?
---Elsie on 8/15/05


2. Benny told them it was because of their lack of faith to give what was ask. This show was televised on tv specail it made me sick to see someone been told that. Of course Benny took the blame off of himself and put it on them. Now the family is devastated thinking it was their fault. You see God sovereignly allows us to be born in different countries with different reasons. All for a purpose that only He knows. Each one important to Him to be a part of His plan.
---lupe2618 on 8/15/05


Sister Dory, I have to disagree with you on this one. It sure is nice to believe that you pray it and you get it if you have faith, but that is not the case. As a matter of fact having anything means nothing if we don't have our hope on Christ. Nothing else really matters to God. I have heard Benny Hinn, tell someone that lost a son that it was because of their lack of faith. This parents were ask to give 5000 dollars to the cause and when they didn't give what was asked for,
---Lupe2618 on 8/15/05


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