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Why is Paul The Least in Heaven

Is Paul called the least in heaven? Many claim that he did away with the Ten Commandments by suggesting that they were nailed to the cross. Yet Jesus said "Whosoever shall break one ..., and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:19

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 ---Jerry on 9/4/05
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Paul saying that he being the least, in reference to he humbling himself. If he started to boast & brag about the ministry that God gave him to do, he prob would wain, fall or other.
---Lawrence on 7/23/10

Jesus was speaking to Jews who were still under the law of Moses at that time!

Near the end of His ministry, Jesus pointed out that "love of God" and others was the basis for the whole law (Mt22:37-40) and He would send others to preach after Him. PAUL said he received what he taught directly from Jesus (Galatians 1:11-12), still clinging to Law as Christians is calling Paul a liar; a major point of the Gospel is that you cannot be saved by keeping the law (read Romans, Galatians, etc.)
---Daniel on 2/29/08

Pharisee: Your summation
A number of people have expressed doubt about accuracy of the weekly cycle, BUT not one person has been able to come up with any evidence of the weekly cycle having changed. In thr absence of this evidence may I suggest your take on it is what is a bit speculative.
You know, that in the Bible a day start at sunset and ends at sunset.
So if the Sabbath starts on FR pm say 6 pm in Paris it would start 8 hrs later here in Ca and No we do not have any difficulty with that.
---Pierr7958 on 9/11/05

Just in case you missed it: The laws that Christ fulfilled were ordinances regulating feast days (inc. sabbaths) which were tied to the sarificial system pointing to Jesus' coming. By coming and becoming the lamb to be offered for our sins, He made these laws of no use bUT THEY ARE NOT THE MORAL LAWS or 10 commandments!
---Pierr7958 on 9/11/05

Paul the least in The Kingdom of Heaven?

God's laws still stand [Matt.5:17]!

God used Paul [after the church was formed] to convey the deeper meaning(s) of Calvary, Grace, "seven specific feasts of Israel", etc as types of Christ [Lev.23:1-44, (4:1-4)], in reference to Jew & gentiles.

Jesus Christ "fulfilled" The Law(s), so believers don't 'have' to keep them, while trying to live by them [Rom.7:1-25, 8:1-4]!
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 9/11/05

, Paul affirmed Jesus' doing away with legalism by paying for sins once for all. now we are to live rightly out of love for Jesus.
---steve on 9/10/05

Here's my summation:

It's presumtious to think that men from the creation of the world accurately counted days, and so I can't imagine how this can be anything more than a matter of tradition.

I DO encourage the spirit of the command (1 in 7 HOLY) but never met a Christ that asks us to apply legality to it.

After all, when it's the Sabbath on this side of the world it won't be in another.
I didn't want argument, but when Christian teachings are challenged I'm in it.
---Pharisee on 9/10/05

Dear Friends,
Thank you for your support and thank you to those who diagree with me also but it politely. I have had several long discussiond with Rick, Elder, Lupe etc. The nice thing, we agree to disagree in an agreable way and that is the way it ought to be. Your friend, Pierre
---Pierr7958 on 9/9/05

Linda, We were just discussing our view on the commandments. I respectfully disagree Pierr's comments about the Sabbath.
I am not saying the other commandments are not important. If we love God and our neighbor as ourself, we will not steal, kill, covet, lie, cheat on our spouce etc... I think that is why it is repeated so much in the Bible.
---Ulrika on 9/9/05

Cont. to the person who commented about the Sabbath being external. The Bible says "By their fruit you will recognize them" Obviously more than just Sabbath observance manifest externally or no one would ever recognize a Christian or be influenced by them or their behavior. God does lay his commandments on our hearts, but the application of those commandments working in our individual lives should be visible outwardly.
---Linda on 9/9/05

Cont. As for the 10 commandments still being valid. To me love the Lord your God and love your neighbor are the 10 commandments just in a more compact easier to remember package (1-4 Love the Lord, 5-10 Love your neighbor) but they are saying the same things. So what are we arguing about? The only person pleased by denominational bickering is Satan folks.
---Linda on 9/9/05

To everyone ganging up on Pierr, has he ever said that you wouldn't be saved if you didn't worship/rest on Saturday? I have read many of his postings and never seen that. As he has said many times we are saved by grace. I'm not sure that anyone is meaning to criticize here, but if we are we not supposed to because the bible is clear as some of you have reference "Let each be decided in their own mind" I happen to worship on Saturday the same as Pierr if you want to worship on Sunday so be it.
---Linda on 9/9/05

Pierr, Now that we have that settled, about my mane Ulrika :)
---Ulrika on 9/9/05

Ulrike: Thank you about your comment. Note that I said: saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.
That last part is very important. It means that once you know what the Lord expects of you, you choose to DO IT! Ex. Abraham, when asked to sacrifice his could have said to himself 'How in the world are there going to be multiple descenants, if I give up my son?' Instead, he had faith and did what God commanded him to do. It is that FAITH which is translated into action that saves.
---Pierr7958 on 9/9/05

Pharisee, I agree with what you wrote about whorshipping of Saturday. What is most important is we worship the Lord.
The problem I have with your statements about the Bible and the commandments is, you make it sound like they are not important and you can get along without them. If I don't hear or the read from the Word, my conscience bothers me less when I do wrong. Don't underestimate the power of scripture. 2Timothy 2:15 \ 3:15,16 Hebrew 4:12 Thessalonians 2:13 Ephesians 6:17
---Ulrika on 9/8/05

Pier, I am very glad to read what you wrote, NO LAW KEEPING SAVES US and we are saved by grace through faith. Since you brought it up Abraham and Joseph were mentioned in Hebrews 11 as examples of faith. We are justified by faith. Romans 3:28 \ 5:1 Galatians 3:24
---Ulrika on 9/8/05

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Pharisees>>>>>>>>>>>>im with you in this corner ok.....just keep them banters coming i got my gloves on and my sword in my mouth.
---Lea on 9/8/05

Pierr, Jesus most certainly did change the moral law. The O.T. commanded an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, and life for life, hating and cursing enemies, noninterracial marriages, it commanded sabbath keeping, dietary laws, circumcison, animal sacifice, tithing, etc. All this was nailed to the cross. We are now living under the N.T. Judaic Law, and not the O.T. Levitical Law.
---Eloy on 9/8/05

You write that you will never be convinced that the 1st day (SU) is less (sacred) than the 7th day (Sabbath)
Q. Who gave us the Sabbath? _God the Crator_____________
Who gave us Sunday worship? __Rome sec+rel_________
Whom would you rather please?_YOU CHOOSE________Case closed!
God bless, Pierre
---Pierr7958 on 9/8/05

Thank you for a much kinder answer.
Let me clear. I NEVER would presume to tell WHAT YOU "HAVE TO DO"! That is not my purpose at all! I just want you to think through the questions and make YOUR CHOICE!
Before asking my question, let me state again: NO LAW KEEPING SAVES US! We are saved by GRACE through FAITH. To me that means that we find out God's will and then DO IT because we love Him.
---Pierr7958 on 9/8/05

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Jerry, I think you need to do a study into the Pauline epistles. The reason for the law was to be our schoolmaster to bring us to God, Galatians 3:24,25. 1 Timothy 1:8, talks of using the law lawfully. Just because Christ made us free from the law, does not mean we can go out and worship idols, curse our mothers and fathers, or even murder. That is not why God freed us. That would be rude and disrespectful.
---geraa7578 on 9/8/05

Jerry, Correction, You made me think:)
---Ulrika on 9/8/05

There were no pocket sized New Testaments in the first century.

I've met Christians from other countries who have never owned a Bible in thier own language. What we shared was a common Spirit, and by that Spirit Brotherhood.
That's God connecting two souls, and no commandment can do that.

I'm not against people worshipping on Saturday, I'm against people telling me I have to.
You'll never convince me that the first day of the week is lesser than the last.
Romans 14:4-8
---Pharisee on 9/8/05

Pharisee, Do you know a verse that says we do not need the 10 commandments or the Bible to be Spirit filled?

John 16:8-14
---Pharisee on 9/8/05

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Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charges, my commandments, my statutes, my law (GEN 26:5). In addition Joseph knew that it was a sin to committ adultery. GEN 39:9
sO, the ML has been around before Jews got it in writing. Also, I hope that you really realize that even though it would be nice if man's conscience were as reliable as you think it is but reality is most laws come in written form because the conscience is not reliable as a code of conduct for society.
---Pierr7958 on 9/7/05

That is why God eventually wrote the ML on stone tablets, to make sure that there would never be a need to guess about what is right and wrong.
NB. long before God said Cain:"If you do well, will you not be accepted? and if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. GEN 4:7 TBC
---Pierr7958 on 9/7/05

Pharisee: I believe that before the Moral Law (ML) was written down in stone, it was written in the hearts (conscience) of the people. In addition it was transmitted orally from father to son. However, by the time of Moses, after the people had been in slavery under Egypt, their memory/conscience had become somewhat corrupted and diluted. TBC
---Pierr7958 on 9/7/05

Jerry, You made you think.
Pharisee, Do you know a verse that says we do not need the 10 commandments or the Bible to be Spirit filled?
We would be lost without his Word. Romans 10:17
The 10 commandments are important, they tell us how to live. They are summed up in 1. love the Lord God. 2. Love one another. Mat.15:2-7 \ 22:38-40 Mark 12:30,31 John 13:34 \15:22 Romman 7:12
Jesus is the only one who never sinned. Heb.4:15 Jesus payed the price for our sin. 1Peter 1:15-25
---Ulrika on 9/7/05

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"The Moral Law it is a code of conduct to help all know right from wrong not J only..."

Who was the law given to?
Who was allowed in the temple?
Who then is the law for?

The Bible tells us in Romans 1 that our own conscience is our judge, that's how transgression occured in the Garden not because Moses came down a week earlier with the 11 commandments (11th: don't eat that)

You apply human logic to your arguments and it's clear why you don't understand grace.
---Pharisee on 9/7/05

No, not legal never legal or illegal as legality does not equate.

The standard is the Holy Spirit.
No one need tell even the most reprobate sinner that murder stealing ect ect is wrong.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

You don't need ten commandments or a Bible to be led of the spirit.
Jesus fufilled the law ceremonial and otherwise with his life for them who believe.
See Romans 8:1
---Pharisee on 9/7/05

Pharisee: I'm sorry if my question offended you. It was not my intention to arouse your passion, but rather your intellectual reasoning. If the Ten Commandments are now erased as you seem to suggest, then is murder, adultry, theft, etc. now legal for the Christian? And what then is the standard by which we are to be judged? None? What do we then do with Jesus' statement "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled?" - Mat 5:18
---Jerry on 9/7/05

Pharisee: Thanks for test! I will not respond in kind. I am not even mad at you. I am sad that you misread my real intention, that's all.
---Pierr7958 on 9/7/05

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Pierr it's a bit overdue for this peace and love business since you and you're buddies came on here with the soul intention to stir up trouble with this question.
And it IS AS I SAID, because Jesus said it himself...

John 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life...

Stop adding something not required to the life of Christ-That's all
---Pharisee on 9/7/05

The Moral Law it is a code of conduct to help all know right from wrong not J only.
Ordinances were "nailed to the cross" by Jesus not the ML.
Keeping the ML does not produce SALVATION! BUT good works and obedience are an expression of our gratitude for His having saved us. We are not under the (condemnation) of the law BUT neither are we free to trangress the law for it's transgression is still SIN!
Do not hesitate to disagree with me but do it kindly.Thank you. Pierre
---Pierr7958 on 9/6/05

Pharisee: It is not my opinion that it is the ordinences that were nailed to the cross but that' exactly Col.2:14 tells us.
I am 100% sure of this fact and find it
unkind on your part to think that my affirmation of this truth hasleft a blot on my record to be etched out by God. I do have other faults that need etching out but this is not one of them. The law had to exist from the beginning otherwise there could not have been transgression of the law which == SIN. TBC
---Pierr7958 on 9/6/05

First of all let us all please agree to disagree maintaining a christian spirit.
Eloy: You say:"Jesus fulfilled the law"
The Bible says: "Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES...and took it out of the way, NAILING IT TO THE CROSS!!!
Q. What was nailed to the cross?
A. THE ORDINANCES which had pointed to JCh's coming, but were no longer necessary when Jesus came in person.
NB. He never changed the Moral Law!
---Pierr7958 on 9/6/05

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Paul stated the truth in Colossians 2:14. Jesus fulfilled the Law. When we read this chapter we see Jesus gave us New Laws and changed the Old Laws. He said verse 19 because he was condemning those who said there is no longer any commandments to follow, but only grace (as many do say today). But faith without works is totally dead. "For I say to you, except your righteousness be more plenteous then of teachers and of ministers, you all will not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:18,20.
---Eloy on 9/5/05

Pierr, That chapter is the only place that phrase is written. I have confidence that a person can read the verses and figure out what Paul is saying. I also gave verses about the commandments. Matthew 22:37-40 If we love God with all our heart, and soul, and mind, him only will we worship. If we love one another we will not do eachother harm, we will help others, we will give to those in need. We love God because he first loved us. We obey him because we love him.
---Ulrika on 9/5/05

It was not the law that was nailed to the cross, but "the ordinances of the law."

I say that's your opinion friend, and if you're under the law, you bess be keepin the other nine.

False witness for example is a BIGGY of the ten and without being absolutely 100% sure of what you're saying (truly you may be sincere, but there is a such thing as sincerely wrong) you could be breaking a commandment.

The Good news is Jesus died to etch away that blot against your record.
---Pharisee on 9/5/05

What's missing here is that the commands and even the ten Commandments were given to establish righteousness among the people of israel and not the world.

The same reason wars were waged and tribes WIPED OUT in antiquity at the hand of God and his people are the reason the Ten commands and ALL the laws were given to the ISRAELITES...To bring about messiah in a nation that worshipped the one true God exclusively.
The commands and laws were to testify of him, and are not requied to recieve grace.
---Pharisee on 9/5/05

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If you're right and all Christians for the last 2000 years- wrong let's change to Adventistnet! The Christian life and the righteousness of Christ aren't by what we do.
Salvation hinges not on commands kept but the sacrifice Jesus made. He paid our debt in full with his blood, and by this we are accepted and blessed as God's children.

The command of Sabbath keeping is external. Jesus' ministry focused on our hearts being new, not one day, every day.
---Pharisee on 9/5/05

Ulrike: and what was "nailed to cross"? It was the CEREMONIAL LAWS not the Moral Law !
You state that were saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and indeed it is true but what does it mean? It means you pray and study the Word to find the truth AND WHEN YOU FIND IT YOU
---Pierr7958 on 9/5/05

Colossians 2:13-16 I quoted this because Paul talks about "nailing it to his cross."
1Cor.15:9 Paul tells he is the least of the apostles, because he persecuted the church of God.
Romans 10:1-11 We are saved through faith.
Romans 3:19-31 \ 5:1-21 \ 6:1-23 \ 7:4-25 \ 8:1 Ephesians 2:4-10 We are saved by grace through faith. Galatians 3:1-27 The function of the law.
---Ulrika on 9/5/05

Very much the mis-quoting, and mis-application of scripture. Colossians 2:14 is very specific. It was not the law that was nailed to the cross, but "the ordinances of the law." These were the sacrifices and offerings for cleansing from sin and defilement. Romans is all about establishing the law (3:31) and the grace that God gives when we acknowledge and repent of our sin, the breaking of the law.
---David on 9/5/05

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please don't get upset with me but I have to ask you: "How many times are you going to use
Col. 2:13 to support th notion that you no longer have to keep the Sabbath, even though that text IS NOT ABOUT THE 7th DAY SABBATH, but about HANDWRITTEN ORDINANCES ???"
---Pierr7958 on 9/5/05

As Jesus told the parable of the rich man at the feast, it is better to be seated at a lower place and be lifted up than to come dressed in the richest apparel and demoted to a lesser place.
Not just the ten commandments. We also in our old nature are to be nailed to the cross (see Romans). Does that mean that our old nature is completely done away with? Not at all, we still cling to it, it is only Christ and His fulfillment of the law that frees us.
---Esthe on 9/4/05

Does anyone read their Bible here or do they just ask questions on these forums.
---willa8633 on 9/4/05

Matthew 22:37-40 Mark 12:29-31 Luke 10:27 John 12,17 Romams 13:9,10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Romans 3:19-31
---Ulrika on 9/4/05

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Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15,16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of and holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
---Ulrika on 9/4/05

1Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given,...
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18-19
---Ulrika on 9/4/05

If you continue with the scriptures farther down, Jesus seems to be changing the 10 Commandments, but He doesn't. Hating to God is the same as killing and being a child of a God that is love, we should love as well. Paul didn't teach out of the Torah that they had at that time, but used it to show Christ.
---Steve on 9/4/05

Yea not any of the commandments were to be broken..Jesus came and fulfilled them with the last Law of LOVE..If we love each other and we Love our God we will do Nothing against our brothers and sisters or unto ourselves or our God creator father.
---Michelle on 9/4/05

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