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Questions About Revelations

I am studying Revelations and think that the first WHITE horse with the bow represents false christs but have read where some think it is Jesus Christ. What do you think and Y? Just curious.

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Yes, God is always ultimately in control. Even though God is allowing Satan to 'rule' over this world, God is ultimately in control.
---Anne on 1/11/09

Shawn, you stated that very well. Although they will object to the power and Majesty of God they speak as fools who seem to believe that God has no power at all in this times and that the devil is ruling over man.
God's Almighty power has never been lost, not for a moment. That the devil is still prince of the air is only by permission of God, and when God finds it good to rid of him, He will. As Jesus so declared, "All Autority has been given to Me in Heaven and earth" The time of Jesus humiliation was at a end, and God had exalted Him above all (Phil. 2:9-11).
---MarkV. on 1/10/09

ShawnT, Satan is still prince and power of the air. WE, His Body have been translated ( spiritually out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear heavenly Places in Christ, WAY above powers and principalities here on earth.

Jesus Christ will have won back complete authority over the Earth at His Second coming when He overthrows the whore, false prophet and beast. When they are bound for 1000 years, Jesus will REIGN here on earth, and we will reign with Him as Kings and Priests. The FINAL victory will be death. That hasn't happened yet!

Did you read Zachariah 12-14? You can't spiritualize that away!!!

Now we have authority to PREACH the Gospel.

Don't spiritualize away what is LITERAL...
---kathr4453 on 1/8/09


I'm over joyed to be able to share with you that Christ has already been given power and reigns in Heaven & earth!! Matt.28:18 Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Kathr, I never said nor implied that we usurp anything OVER Christ: that would be someone's assumption!

The Holy Spirit is His Power come down from on high to us(Luke24:49)! Christ HOLDS dominion for ever(Rev.1:6) in Heaven & earth as the Head & His Body as the 'Church'. We in Christ as His Body(Church) only partake in the power through the guidance of the Holy Spirit: and He hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth(Rev.5:10).

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/31/08

**Adam's power/authority that he was blessed with holding in the earth, is why he wasn't deceived. This is the same power/ /authority Christ Jesus now hold and evreyone(Elect) in Christ partakes in His powe/authourity through the discerning guidance of God's Holy Spirit.**

ShawnT , when Adam/ Eve sinned, they LOST dominion over the earth. Satan now holds that power. Satan tried to get Jesus to bow to him those 40 days in the wilderness, stating if Jesus would Satan would give Jesus power over all.

Revelations 11....It won't be until then the the Kingdom of this world becomes the Kingdom of our Lord and Christ. WE do not as a Church have we would be usurping authority over Christ our head.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/08

--Jack:*By calling his fleah weak, he demonstrated it was not the same as his(soul)sorrowful*

Jack, You're right! But our soul isn't sorrowful because it's the/a Psyche.

The Psyche is of the flesh and if there's more than one Psyche(multiple personalities)they're still of the flesh:not the soul!

When we're in the process of pulling away from the 'weak' flesh, to do God's Will, is when our souls are sorrowful. But through the strength heard in the voice of God's drawing Love that our 'ready' spirit calls out to(which our heart, soul & mind abides within), we're able to do all things through Christ.

Jack, The spirit is 'ready' only because we love God with all our heart,soul & mind!

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/28/08

The spirit Jesus spoke of is not just any spirit but the Spirit which is of God, godly. Mark 5 speaks of "unclean spirits", even "about 2,000" which were in one man alone! Yet after Jesus commanded them to leave the man, it is reported of that man, that he was "sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind". The man's "soul" is not mentioned, neither which "spirit" remained in him, yet a spirit and a soul remained in the man. The spirit and the soul are not one and the same, else that man would have been taken by at least 2001 souls...
---Nana on 12/28/08

--Kathr4453:*woman is the weaker vessel is why Satan approached Eve.**

Kathr, Amen~to everything except your above comment! 'Weaker vessel' is used only once in scriptures~1Peter3:7 stating~"unto the wife 'AS UNTO' the weaker vessel", not 'WHO IS' the weaker vessel.

I'm sharing about 'being deceived', while you're sharing about 'Eve being the weaker vessels' before the fall. But before the fall, these two had nothing to do with one another!

Mankind only became weaker vessels after the fall and all that aren't of the Lord, still remain as weaker vessels. Eve wasn't a weaker vessel at the time the serpent approached her, so that's not why! That's the wrongful understanding & preaching of men.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/27/08

Shawn, This is the last time i will explain. I am a creature made of dust and not by my own hands. I deserve no glory neither do i seek any. I did not add all the verse because i was seeking to show the difference between soul and spirit, not because i was seeking to hide something! Jesus said his soul was (sorrowful), his spirit (ready) and his flesh was (weak). If jesus meant his flesh was his soul, he would have called his flesh sorrowful also. By calling his fleah weak, he demonstrated it was not the same as his (soul) sorrowful! Jesus speaks of the trinity of the makeup of man, spirit, soul and flesh (body). The same is declared in 1 Thess. 5:23: Your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---jack on 12/27/08

--Jack:*Jesus said his soul was sorrowful unto death. Then states his spirit was ready. Jesus is demonstrating that his soul and his spirit were two different parts of his being**

Jack, You speak of quoting for the wrong purposes and then you go & do it, only to try to add validity to YOUR point, by leaving off the end of the verse: knowing it clearly reveal its TRUE context! Demonstrating your purpose & motives aren't to glorify the Lord, but yourself!

The relationship Jesus was making is between 'spirit' & 'flesh' not the soul & spirit. If He mean the soul & spirit, He would've said the soul & spirit.

Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/27/08

"The ELECT are those who refuse to bend the knee to BAAL."
kathr4453 on 12/26/08

Very much agree!
I am always hearing about the "Elect", but there is also such a thing as the "Un-Elect", like Eli and Saul in the days of Samuel.
---Nana on 12/27/08

Scripture will always illuminate deceptions.
---Trav on 12/26/08

WOW Trav, that's great, BUT why don't YOU manifest that truth????

You call SCRIPTURE a lie and the deluge a lie that the whole world perished clearly stated in SCRIPTURE. YOU argued about that stating SCIENTISTS have proven otherwise. And that God created other people then Adam/Eve.

Miche, that ALONE tells you his WHOLE understanding is based in these two LIES. All he says after is highly SUSPECIOUS!!!

So Miche, Trav is not someone you need to get all bothered about in his judgement of anything. By his own statement God will judge him for his hypocrisy! Miche , Don't let someone like Trav spoil your day or your testimony. He's not worth it!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/27/08

**Adam's power/authority that he was blessed with holding in the earth, is why he wasn't deceived. This is the same power/ /authority Christ Jesus now hold and evreyone(Elect) in Christ partakes in His powe/authourity through the discerning guidance of God's Holy Spirit.**

Presumptuous Shawn! Can you prove any of that with scrpture. It's because woman is the weaker vessel is why Satan approached Eve. He approached her away from Adam. Adam was not there at the time. Eve told Adam what she had done. Adam also ATE and they BOTH DIED. ADAM SINNED TOO!!!!!!!

The ELECT are those who refuse to bend the knee to BAAL. Only Christ is worth of praise, honor , power and Glory. He gave us power and authority to preach the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/08

...hardness of heart towards women in ministry.
---miche3754 on 12/26/08
You are the one that would not let subjects go. Scripture has found you out.

I have no hardness towards a seeking Christian. You seek not truth...but, another way.
I have hardness against blasphemy of truth. More especially when deci-eved and in this deci-eving others.

Scripture will always illuminate deceptions.
Proclaiming a ministry,but not able to discern scripture,no knowledge pertaining to phrophets etc, is a sign of the kinds of feel goody false ministries that are prophesied. Which is a fulfillment of prophecy,in this you are biblical.
---Trav on 12/26/08

There is a huge difference between the flesh,mind (psyche) and the soul (psyche). Jesus said in (mark.14:34) that his (soul) was sorrowful unto death. Then a few verses later jesus states his (spirit) was ready (Mark.14:38). Jesus is demonstrating that his (soul) and his (spirit)were two different parts of his being, experiencing two different reactions. Your incorrect interpretation of the soul keeps you from something edifying. I pray your spirit might eventually receive the deeper things of the spirit. You'll see things in a clearer perspective when you always seek the glorifcation of God and His Word.
---jack on 12/26/08

MarkV, I want to thank you for your kind words. It is a simple thing to fail to comprehend an attack when it is not against you. Attacks can come in many different forms. They often come in disparaging comments in a subtle manner seeking to appear superior in purpose.
To quote Scripture is not always the right motive if it is for the wrong purpose. Kind manners often is meant to appease the listeners, and the (appearance)of a none self-righteous attitude are seldom found except in the best of manipulators. Mark you listened to Shawn but you heard what you believed already. Listening is but a fleshly sense but hearing beyond the sayings gives you other ears to hear, through God's gracious Spirit. this will be my last statement on this blog
---jack on 12/26/08

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A minister of GOD asking MEN for help? Is there no Prophet that will stand with you?- trav 12/24/08

I am not a prideful woman. I have no problem at all asking or receiving help from anyone.
Simply, since you refuse to hear anything a woman says on any matters concerning the Bible, I asked for my brothers in Christ to minister to you instead.
This is because your heart is hardened towards female ministers and its clear you dont have correct discerning of the New Covenant since you believe it is fleshly.
God bless you and I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldnt post any answers to anything I may post due to your hardness of heart towards women in ministry.
---miche3754 on 12/26/08

can someone please explain to trav about the new covenant..
---miche3754 on 12/24/08

A minister of GOD asking MEN for help? Is there no Prophet that will stand with you?

In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion.
Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.
29 I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31Therefore watch, and remember, that by space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
---Trav on 12/24/08

Jack, I listened to Shawn explain things to you in a very kind manner. No attacks no self-righteous statements but those found in Scripture. You are a good man Jack, you let your emotions guide you and you miss on a lot when you are there. Your discussions and Shawn's have helped me a lot. It is very clear when someone puts two and two together. You will not find a fault in the answer. I don't want you to go away mad or disappointed. But to keep searching as we all are by the Spirit's guideness. Blessings to you and your family through the birth of our Lord that we celibrate in the coming days.
---MarkV. on 12/24/08

can someone please explain to trav about the new covenant. Because he refuses to see it is with the Spirit and not the flesh. It is mainly because he seems to believe I am defiant, and wrong because I am a woman even though I am devoted to God.
He continues to malign me even when I humbly explain but to avail.
jack and shawn, God bless you brothers and thank you for your support and edification,. God bless you too trav, even though you say that I am constantly wrong in discerning the Word of God.
---miche3754 on 12/24/08

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--Jack:*The soul(psyche) is the area of our emotions and will---jack on 12/23/08**

Had you posted this from the start, this would have been a very short conversation!

Jack, The 'Psyche' isn't our soul. It's nothing more than the build up of every temptation we've accepted from destructive spirits. The psyche is carnal & lie in the flesh, where it keeps our soul from receiving & loving the Word of God.

Your wishes to correct me with a incorrect interpretation of the 'soul' is what, unbeknown to you, got you off the topic at hand...and out of the glory of receiving something edifying....but I pray for your soul to receive the edifying discerned truth of God's Word.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/24/08

Miche, apology humbly accepted. You may always and often criticize me, but to misquote another reveals a misjustice to that one and a lack of interest on behalf of the opinion of another. When we begin to disregard the opinion of another we soon fail to learn. The Lord told me long ago, "That He could not be manipulated by the persuasion of a fleshly mind" and i believe His word must never be abused (misquoted). So i also dislike being misquoted. I perceived the sincerity of your apology and i am very thankful for it! I pray that the Lord my God will favor you at all times!
---jack on 12/23/08

--Jack:**Adam was not deceived when his guidance was through his (spirit). Then after was he deceived through Eve by listening to, through, his (soul).--jack12/19/08***

Jack, Miche made no referrence to the content of what you said, Miche only commented that "What Jack said about Adam isn't true" PERIOD!! Which is TRUE. Your whole statement is wrongly discerned.

Adam's power & authority that he was blessed with holding in the earth, is why he wasn't deceived. This is the same power & authority Christ Jesus now hold and evreyone(Elect) in Christ partakes in His power & authourity through the discerning guidance of God's Holy Spirit.

Don't get paranoid, just get in the Spirit and you'll rightly discern!
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/23/08

Miche 3754, I had a continuation of the statement made to you on the 23rd but apparently it did'nt get through, As i stated the salvation of the (soul) after we are saved through Christ, is through the engrafted Word, a process that last a lifetime and we grow through it(James.1:21).Where the salvation of the (spirit)(John.3:6) is the rebirth experience in Jesus in our spirit. We are made up of body, soul and spirit as stated in God's Word: (2 Thess.5:23) May your whole (spirit)(soul) and (body) be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The spirit (pneuma) is the part of us that gives the ability to perceive the Divine. The soul(psyche) is the area of our emotions and will, and is subject to the lust of the flesh as did Adam.
---jack on 12/23/08

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Therefore, we are easily distracted by voices not perceived through the spirit (pneuma) of ourselves, but the soul of our being. Adam knew the difference for he had always conversed with his creator, spirit to SPIRIT. We however, often lack the ability to correctly perceive the voice of the Spirit to our spirit (void of the anointing) and often confuse voices of soulish things with spiritual matters. Those who do not understand the difference between the voice of the Spirit to the spirit(pneuma)and the voice of the soul(psyche) will always fail to comprehend the deeper spiritual directions and discernments of our Lord and His gracious Spirit! I really only wanted to stay on the topic of the rider (Rev.6:2)! MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
---jack on 12/23/08

I guess you are unaware of the wild branch being grafted into the new covenant right?
that would be the gentiles. me, you, any Chirstian not of judah or israel.
---miche3754 on 12/23/08

miche, one reason you have problems, context. You are defiant, you want to teach when you should listen. All of Romans is to the divorced 11 parts of Israel. Yes they were gentilized, but not cast away as you want them to be.

11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin
The grafting it back into the same tree they came from. Olive trees were always Israel.
---Trav on 12/23/08

I apologize if I misunderstood what you had posted.
God Bless you anyway though!!
---miche3754 on 12/23/08

the mingling you keep talking about is simple it is about worship not mixing with other races. We should not mix with ones who don't worship God.
You read more into the word than there is. But I suppose that is how the evil spirit of racism works.. wouldn't know never felt it.
I guess you are unaware of the wild branch being grafted into the new covenant right?
that would be the gentiles. me, you, any Chirstian not of judah or israel.
what does this mean? ALL are the children of God.
What I posted is an example of that and here is one of the grafting...
Read Romans 11...speaks of gentiles being grafted into the cultivated tree if they believe..
---miche3754 on 12/23/08

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Miche, What i said about Adam was not even close to what you claim i said (12/22/08). I said nothing about Eve sought to (force or fool) Adam . You have the same propensity of adding words and meanings to other peoples sayings as Shawn does. Are you sure your not both the same person! I simply said Adam listened to Eve by, through his soul (12/ 19/08) not in (force or fooled) but because the soul (emotions) are easily deceived especially when love for our fellow being is envolved. Where you came up with (fooled and forced) is beyond me. You see the salvation of the soul is different than the salvation of the spirit.
---jack on 12/23/08

maybe I am explaining wrong.
The new Covenant is with ALL people.
God requires circumcision of the HEART. Not the Flesh.
This is obedience with the Heart through LOVE.
We are all created in God's image. And he loves us All. So what God means by these verses is that when we accept Jesus, We become grafted into the Family with Jesus.
God will not judge the outward appearance. God will judge the heart. We must do the will and actions of God. This is what it means to be seperate. Do not do what the World does.
Shawn, thank you brother. And you are right. I am lokking for edification as soon as you post it. God bless you both
---miche3754 on 12/23/08


BTW~You did realize and do understand that although Adam wasn't deceived, HE STILL SINNED! I Hope this help you to eventually rightly discern Matt. 24:24

Jack, Thanks for your well wishes and I pray as will that you always continue to grow in the Spirit of the Lord. May His peace always be upon your soul as you faithfully endure in His Word.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

trav,<>The old fleshly covenant cannot exist with the new covenant. ---miche3754 on 12/22/08

Exactly. The new is with the same group mentioned. Original wife listed. Whose land will not be adulterated or polluted. Virgin.

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:1-3

Funny you listed the very verses that begin and complete subject below, with specific people. Whole point.

Jer 31:31 I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Hbr 8:8 I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 12/22/08

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--Miche3754:*Eve was deceived because she's the weaker vesel.**

Miche: I'm going to share this matter with ~MarkV~, in another Blog.

The matter of rightly diserning who's the weaker vesel now that we have salvation in Christ. Many wrongly discern that the weaker vesel is only a woman.

Every man & woman that aren't of the body of Christ are considered the weaker vesel which can be deceived.

Christ has paid for the sins of the world & holds all power & authority in the earth, as Adam did before he could be deceived prior to the fall. When we abide in Christ we also partake in the same power & authority through the guiding unction of the Holy Spirit and is why the Elect won't be deceived.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

Shawn, it seems that if anyone does not agree with you, they are mocking you. Sorry but the things you teach are far from what I see in God's Word. The elect are of the chosen but many are called. I really do not need your form of edification. You believe as you will. Eat at the trough as you want. I will take my pearls and reside in another place! You assume far to much by classifing yourself as an edifier. Im sorry that you seem more concerned about your appearance before others, than your ability to hear any voice but your own. May you eventually grow in the Lord, and trust in his leadings. God Bless you, and remember none of us are always right in our understandings even if we think its of the Lord's leading!
---jack on 12/22/08



Thanks be to God for your discerned answer!

Your words are very well writen.

Keep diligently enduring in the Word of the Lord as you have been.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

and where did this scripture you posted come from?
You still think you can put Spirit with flesh.
The old fleshly covenant cannot exist with the new covenant. This is inpossible because it has already been chown several times that the flesh cannot and will not do the will of God. flesh cannot enter into the presence of God.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
continue please...
---miche3754 on 12/22/08

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John 3:5 (cont'd)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
continue please...
---miche3754 on 12/22/08

Isa 9:14 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel
The Covenant is with Christ Spirit, not with the flesh.
All Christians have Christ's Spirit in them.
Christ dying cut off the flesh(old) Spirit is NEW and for everyone.
---miche3754 on 12/22/08

Please don't get mad at me answering.
Eve was deceived because she's the weaker vesel.
Why was she weaker? because she's made From the Weaker things in Adam.
Thats why men & women become 1 fesh in marriage. Equal but different.
Satan went to her because of this weakness.
What Jack said about Adam isn't true.
Eve didn't force or fool Adam to eat.
Adam CHOSE to fall because he loved Eve more than He loved God.
The redemption of woman was by giving birth to Jesus (the seed of Woman in Gen3:15).
Man's redemption was through Jesus crucifying the flesh on the cross.(Romans 5:19)
Adam & Eve didn't do the will of God, Mary & Jesus did.
If I am wrong, please let me know.
God bless you shawn
---miche3754 on 12/22/08


All of God's creation are spirits. Not just man.

Man's spirit is composed of our heart, soul & mind (which aren't literal but spiritually all one and the same). We're to love God with all our heart, soul & mind: meaning to love with all that we are. As God does: who's image we're of.

Since man can't perfect his heart, soul or mind, we're to submit completely to the unction from the Holy Spirit: from which WE KNOW ALL THINGS(1 John 2:20).

Adam wasn't deceived do to this unction and power he was blessed with holding in the earth. This is the power that Christ Jesus now holds in the earth and the Elect partake in His Power connected with the unction of the Spirit: which is why they shall not be deceived.
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

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Elect & Saint are the same. Muturity has nothing to do with it: when we are saved, we're saved.

The souls of the Elect Saints are saved through their trusting faith in the Loving Word of God's covienant promise of our messiah. Those who say Lord Lord but will not be found among the Elect Saints of the Lord, are those whose faith is dead.

The Galatians faith was dead do to seeking their new course based on the works of the law and the entire book of James is about faith being death. They aren't addressing the Elect Saints whose faith is very much alive!

Jack, Keep faith in trusting that the Lord preserves the souls of His saints: He delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked(Psalm97:10).
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

---Jack:**We all should just listen then to you who only hears always from the Lord!**

Jack, You'll never receive anything edifying through caddy mocking comments like the one above. You should reconize that they are just a desperate cry for help and I'm looking to help but you'll need to stay in the Spirit to receive it. Try to use your words a little better. So be swift to hear, slow to speak & slow to wrath(James 1:19)

I've always encouraged other, as I have you, that we're always to listen to the Spirit of the Lord--12/13/08

...and that we're not to put our trust in man but we are to discern when the Spirit is speaking through men!--12/10/08
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/22/08

Shawn, It seems to me that you are stating that unless you are of the elect you are not of the classifcation of a saint. A saint is a saint the moment he is birthed spiritually in JESUS CHRIST. Just like the physical bith of a baby, that baby is instantly born into the human family. He does not become a human after he matures. So christians at birth in Christ are saints even as babes and then as saints they muture and become the elect. Paul in Gal, and James in his writings were not seeking to create saints, they did not have that power but they sought to teach and correct the saints in their walk in the Lord! And we today as saints benefit from their words!
---jack on 12/21/08

you are avoiding the questions I asked you about the scripture I posted disproving your theory on re- marriage.
---miche3754 on 12/19/08

Avoided. Ha. Pointless, contextually the wine and bottles are a change to the same people GOD chose. It is answered in 1000'S you run or flail at. Why you are in over your head. Blind. No foundation. Anything ever answered was for seeing eyes ears.
Your ministry says.
4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, SHE saith to him,
5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the WINE which I have MINGLED.

6Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding
---Trav on 12/20/08

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you are avoiding the questions I asked you about the scripture I posted disproving your theory on re- marriage.
And you keep posting old testament prophecy that was fulfilled by Jesus.
Lets stick to the subject.
You know the prophecies but you don't seem to understand the fulfillment of them.
old wine can't be put into new wineskins(bottles)
and new cloth can't be sewn to old cloth.
go back and look at the scripture I posted on this and tell me what you think.
---miche3754 on 12/19/08

There is no "divorce". There is the physical death of one and the Marriage to another.
---miche3754 on 12/18/08
This is so simple, and so hard....when milk doctrine door is held shut.
backsliding ISRAEL committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of DIVORCE, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jeremiah 3:7-9

A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.
Leviticus 21:13-15
---Trav on 12/19/08

Shawn, Adam was not deceived when his guidance was through his (spirit). Then after was he deceived through Eve by listening to, through, his (soul). You claim the Lord spoke to your SOUL not your SPIRIT! Your soul can be deceived! you speak as if your position of being of the elect safeguards you from all deceptions. Your safeguard is JESUS, not your postion or title! Unless you woke up one day without a soul, you, I and all are capable of being deceived!Do not add the word SOUL to God's Word when that word is not there (John.10:4-5). You have a tendency to add meanings and words to something not said or you failed to understand. Believe as you will though that is your right.
---jack on 12/19/08

Shawn. the soul and the spirit of man are two different make ups. Animals have souls but not spirits. Even if we were perfect we cannot know our souls, according to God's inspired Word(Job.9:21). Please as i said before do not add meanings to my words that i never said and you never understood! You cannot be deceived Spirit to spirit, but voice, words,ideas, converse. all can deceive the soul! Please, if you must believe as you do, do not claim that through your position as the elect everytime you get a witness it must be the correct answer because only the Lord speaks to you,WHY? apparantly because of your position! We all should just listen then to you who only hears always from the Lord!
---jack on 12/19/08

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Question: Why was Adam not deceived, but Eve was deceived? 1 Timothy 2:14

After discerning this question, it should shed some light on the matter of 'Why the Elect can't be deceived'.

God Bless Brother
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/19/08

--Jack:*assuming you are hearing from the Lord you made the statement that the Lord witnessed to your (soul)not your spirit on 12/7/08.The soul can receive many voices, regardless if you are of the elect or not!**

Jack, First of all, lets be clear. It's you (NOT ME) that's saying "NOT TO MY SPIRIT".


There's a war for the 'Love of our Souls' and I Love the Lord our God, with all my HEART, SOUL and MIND!!

The Lord goes before His Elect and we follow Him: for our SOULS knows His voice, and a stranger's voice we will not follow, but will flee from him: for we know not the voice of strangers(John 10:4-5). This is why the Elect will not be deceived!!

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/19/08

Peter was the ambassador of weak assurance. He was convinced himself of his loyalty, yet his self assurance failed not only him but others also. He was loved, not withstanding in need of being "converted" himself... Do I look down on him? God forbid, I have a beam in my eye and in him I see myself. Strong assurance is watchful, 1 John 4:1: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God", "even as there shall be false teachers among you", "believe him not", "But take ye heed:", "go not forth", "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation:" All these "elect" purporters do not teach watchfulness! As as a thief in the night...
---Nana on 12/19/08

--Jack:*i never say the Lord was not capable of keeping us from being deceived*


**The soul can be deceived even if the spirit has been brought to life in Jesus.jack on12/9/08*

The spirits brought to Life in Jesus are the 'Souls of the Elect', protected by the Lord our shield of faith that quenches every 'Fiery Dart' of the enemy's deception. Jack, you don't believe our shield, the Lord, is capable of keeping us/Elect from deception.

**the elect can be deceived.jack on12/10/08*

Jack, Be strong and of good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of the deception of the enemy: for the LORD will not fail nor forsake the Souls of the Elect.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/19/08

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Shawn, I will attempt to explain this to you one more time. I did not, nor did i ever say, as you state, the Lord was not capable of keeping us from being deceived. But assuming you are hearing from the Lord you made the statement that the Lord witnessed to your (soul)not your spirit on 12/7/ 08.The soul can receive many voices, regardless if you are of the elect or not! these voices can be of others, yourself, the devil, or something that one may have read through the interpretation of another. I personally believe that you heard from the latter, claiming it to be from the Lord! If you believe the soul of yourself only hears from the Lord, and not from other voices, you seem to be sadly deceived beyond measure, and you teach others the same !
---jack on 12/18/08

Shawn T, I have been following your answers to Jack and first I want to say that I love the way you respond to others. I alway read what you have to say. I find that you have great character and respect for others. You do a great job by keeping your emotions in tact. I have learned so much from you. If I could only answer as you do, it would be great. Keep going brother, people are learning. Praise God.
---MarkV. on 12/18/08

these are prophecies of the cutting away of the OLD and being replaced with the NEW.
Please read the scripture I provided and give me your view on it.
Is it possible to put new with old?
Jesus says in these scripture it is not.
Jesus knew the prophets and told them what to say so he didn't contridict, he fulfilled.

There is no "divorce". There is the physical death of one and the Marriage to another.
The death of the old way.
Marriage to the new way- Christ the bridegroom is marrying his new bride- The spiritual BODY of Christ- all of today's true Christians.
---miche3754 on 12/18/08

--Jack:**you believe you have the only interpretation on the meaning of God's Word.**

I could assume the same about you, but I'd rather share with you that, continueous communication in the Spirit will produce the constructive Truth of God's Word!!

When we pray we're to have faith & believe (as the Elect) that as we ask & pray in the Lord's name we shall receive.

Jack, You prayed to the Lord to keep me from being deceived. But sadly enough, you DON'T BELIEVE that the Lord is capable of keeping us from being deceived. Jack, do you see the irony. You're at odds with-in yourself, wavering like a wave in the sea, and this is why you're not receiving the Spirit's discerned truth of Matt.24:24!

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/18/08

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Shawn, it is obvious that you believe you have the only interpretation on the meaning of God's Word. Therefore,our continual communication will produce nothing constructive.I pray that you listen with your spirit for the voice of God's Spirit and realize that hearing with your soul can be deceptive.I am glad that you think God resonates throughout your being, but the important thing is to discern with your spirit, and be cautious of things revealed to your soul! I am concerned you will be a person easily to be deceived by others in the future. I pray that the Lord will not allow this and to protect you in all places- God Bless!
---jack on 12/17/08

Okay, you are saying it is a re-marriage, right?
But the NT says new bride- The Spiritual Church.
---miche3754 on 12/16/08
Mens doctrinal butchering says this.

New marriage to same people. They are forgiven. Clean as 10 Virgins. Husband died physically to free them from previous Covenant. This is why it is New. Heb 8:8.

Hosea2:19 I will betroth thee unto me for ever, yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us, he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.<
---Trav on 12/17/08

trav, the old is cut off.
you can't re-new something old. It must be cast off.
See matthew 9:17,mark 2:22,luke 5:37
you can't put new wine(new covenant) in old wineskins or bottle(old covenant). the old wineskin or bottle will burst.

matthew 9:16, mark 2:21
can't sew new cloth(new covenant) onto old cloth (old covenant)- it will tear.

These passages mean that the old is replaced by the new.
You cant re-new old cloth(old covenant). You can't re-use old wineskins(old covenant). Jesus's body crucified on the cross is the cutting away of the old. Jesus rising from the dead is the new.
We can only worship God in SPIRIT and in TRUTH!!
---miche3754 on 12/17/08

The ot is full of the prophets speaking on this disobedience. Why is it you can't seem to get that?
---miche3754 on 12/16/08
Oh, the entirety of scripture main reason. Disobedience to be forgiven.

a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:7-9

he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverbs 12:14-16
---Trav on 12/16/08

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That's why many of us are called Blessed, BECAUSE we believe W/O seeing him, I have NEVER ?'ed God or His Son on who or what they are or my Belief in them...
---Duane_Dudley_Martin on 12/16/08

Okay, you are saying it is a re-marriage, right?
But the NT says new bride- The Spiritual Church. BIG KEY- NEW!!
The reason Jesus came back in a physical body is because of PROOF. We humans have a falicy of not believing until we can see or use the 5 senses to prove something is real. Our father in heaven knows this, and !poof! You have Jesus returning in a physical body. But when He ascended to heaven, He was changed.
When Jesus crucified his fleshly body on the cross, the old covenant or promise was cut off because of disobedience. The ot is full of the prophets speaking on this disobedience. Why is it you can't seem to get that?
Back on the subject-The first white horse in rev. is the spirit of conquest.
---miche3754 on 12/16/08

To Whosoever has an ear to hear?

The antichrist doesn't coming down from Heaven! So the first rider on the white hores is not the antichrist.

My praise (of caughtup's comment) is for the statement that Jesus already defeated all our foes. The Word of the Lord has rendered them harmless. The fasle christ & fasle prophets wants people to believe they are a true threat, when they aren't. This is just part of their decption that we through faith need to discern.
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/16/08

---Jack:**Your version of what a saint is or is not is just that , your version!***

Jack, Rev.14:12 is the discerning Spirit's & subsequently my interpretation of 'Saints'

Rev.14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Peter's denyal to have 'faith' in what Jesus was saying at that moment revealed & showed that he wasn't a saint yet, as you presummed.

Jesus said in Matt.26:21 one of His discples, at the table, would betray Him(NOT TWO). Judas was the one who betraied Jesus, not Peter!

Jack, I pray that all this is edifying, and that you stay diligent in seeking the truth by always listen to hear from God's Spirit.

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/15/08

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---Jack:**Most of the New Testament is addressing the saints. Paul in Gal. warned us (not to be deceived),why because we could be, (God is not mocked)***

Paul is addressing the Galatians who have abandoned their 'spiritual walk of faith', for a new course based on 'the works of the law'. We're not considered 'Saints' without faith in Jesus. So, Paul's Gal. is not addressing saints.

---Jack:***the Lord knows that i learned the book of James. and much of the book of Gal. by memory many yrs. ago.***

Jack, That great that you hold these book to memory. The most important thing though is to allow the Spirit to keep you in remembrance, at all times, of the discerning TRUTH of what these books are saying!

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/15/08

He that sat on the RED HORSE took peace from the earth not with PESTALINCES but with a weapon, A GREAT SWORD. A Sword is a weapon of WAR, not PESTALINCES! The rider on the WHITE HORSE has a BOW it is meant to point toward the hearts of men, not to KILL as the rider on the RED HORSE but to CONQUER. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is that BOW and He shall shoot forth the ARROW (rider),Zech.9:14, Isa.49:2)who shall go to the hearts of many people and shall seek to conquer the hearts of many for GOD'S Glory!
---jack on 12/15/08

---Jack:**James warnes the saints to lay apart all filthiness, why because we are sometimes deceived as saints to do the wrong thing***

Jack, James is speaking of a Knowledge & Wisdom that those who aren't 'Saints' wouldn't know. Warning them(not 'Saints') to lay all filthiness aside.

The sum of everything that James is talking about, through out all five chapters, dills with "Faith & the Work" that keeps it alive.

A 'Saint' would aready have this faith & the works which keep it alive. If they did not have this kind of faith, they wouldn't be considered the Elect/Sanits.

I hope this evidence helps

God Bless
---Shawn_M.T. on 12/15/08

then why does Jesus say that he came to establish a NEW covenant?
---miche3754 on 12/15/08
Because they broke it. He divorced, widowed and remarry's by new covenant.

He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
Psalm 105:9-11
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:32-34

Christ came back Physically. Thomas stuck his fingers in his wounds.
---Trav on 12/15/08

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If you read the O.T. you will know that the bride is the church and before it used to be Israel and that we (and they) have committed adultery by worshipping idols, including a God and Jesus made in our image, not the true God or Jesus. We have added to our sins by disobeying the Ten DCommandmnets and the laws of Love that Jesus brought. This spiritual adultery is what is spoken of throughout Revelation. It lead directly to all the other sins spoken of in the N.T. God allowed us to be deceived because we were unfaithful, he allowed us to sin because we ignored him. He will punish us for this.
---frances008 on 12/15/08

Shawn,not to boast but the Lord knows that i learned the book of James. and much of the book of Gal. by memory many yrs. ago. Your version of what a saint is or is not is just that , your version! In Peter's case denying and betraying were one of the same.
I did'nt say that you should'nt listen to the spirit, please do not assume what i am saying. Shawn you need someone preferable a good teacher to explain to you the difference between the body, mind, soul, spirit, and SPIRIT! I am impressed that you think that you know when something is taken out of context and is not of truth, but without one iota of evidence, to back your belief!
---jack on 12/15/08

The rider on the WHITE horse is WAR. The rider on the RED horse is DEATH/PESTALINCE (disease). The rider on the BLACK horse is FAMINE. The rider on the PALE horse is the the ANTICHRIST. ALL of these will be happening in the TRIBULATION.
---Leslie on 12/15/08

then why does Jesus say that he came to establish a NEW covenant?
Also, there is the issue of instead of actual physical circumcision of the flesh, now we have to be circumcized in the heart.
And the Israel being spoken of is the Israel of the Spirit. Otherwise, none would be saved.
There are clearly two in the scripture you have given and I am not disagreeing with the scripture, just your interpretation of it.
Again, "God is looking for a people that will worship him in Spirit and in truth." By saying the house of Israel in the flesh is calling the afore statement by God false.
---miche3754 on 12/15/08

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And trav, the New Covenant is with the SPIRIT not physical. You keep saying that God is re-establishing when God is REPLACING- the old has been cut of just like forskin(key).

---miche3754 on 12/12/08

1.For, lo, I will command, I will sift house of Israel among all nations, like as corn sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Amos 9:8-10
2.Earth bringeth forth fruit of herself, first the blade, the ear, after that full corn in the ear.
Mark 4:27-29
3. Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Isaiah 45:16-18

GOD's prophets tell it different. Called Gospel.
---Trav on 12/15/08

The Whore is symbolic of a fallen church. In the Bible Isreal was referred to as a women because she was the Bride of GOD. The Church is the Bride of JESUS.

A false bride who adopts Paganism is pictured as Martin points out sitting on the seven hills.

I do believe that the United States is pictured in Revelation. But I cannot prove it. Nations are pictured most often as Beasts. See Daniel 7. The United States is the beast that came up out of the Land and started will but in the end speaks like the dragon.
---Samuel on 12/15/08

Samual, I agree with one part of what you wrote, not the other. v. 12 "a great sign" is a symbol pointing to something else. This is the first of 7 signs in the last half of Revelation. Four symbolic women are presented in this book. Verse 12 represents Israel only, I will tell you why later, pictured in the Old T. as the wife of God (Is. 54:6, Jer. 3:6-8, 31:32, Ezk. 16:32, Hos. 2:16). Jezebel, represents paganism (Rev. 2:20), The Scarlet woman (Rev. 17:3-6) symbolizing the apostate church. The last women "the wife of the Lamb" (19:7) symbolizing the True Church. The fact that v. 12 is not about the true church is clear because the verse say, "Clothed with the sun ..moon under her feet. twelve stars"
---MarkV. on 12/14/08

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