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What Was Christ's Sufferings

What was Christ's suffering on the cross? Was it just physical pain? How did He suffer in taking on the weight of our sin? Did He experience separation from the Father?

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 ---Madison on 9/9/05
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Christ did suffer physically and God who can't look upon sin, turned his back on him when our sins were placed upon him. During the dark hours God turned his back on Jesus. It was our sin that make him suffer, even during prayer he sweat drops like blood.
---Rev_Herb on 5/4/07


We cannot fully understand His suffering, on the cross...For Christ to take on the weight of ALL our sins is unfathomable to me; I know ONE sin can weigh me down:He took ALL..Past, present and future..It was deeper than physical pain...separation from the Father caused him to cry out,"My God,why hast though forsaken me"Matt.27.46
---Karin on 10/18/05


We cannot fully understand His suffering, on the cross...For Christ to take on the weight of ALL our sins is unfathomable to me; I know ONE sin can weigh me down:He took ALL..Past, present and future..It was deeper than physical pain...separation from the Father caused him to cry out,"My God,why hast though forsaken me"Matt.27.46
---Karin on 10/18/05


5. In answer to you question, Jesus was set to do His part before the foundation of the world. It was not an after though in God when He saw man fall. If it was He would not be Omniscience, He would be gaining knowledge as He sees events happening. He already knows all.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


4. not because of works but because of His call, she was told, "The elder will serve the younger." as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." 1 Corinthians 1:27-29. Now as we see here, God, before they were born had already made a decision as to who He was going to show His love for. Now, this is God talking and it is in the Bible, do you not agree? This Scriptures are there Pierr. I didn't write them, God did. I am not making this up. Really.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05




3. and you, with the help of wicked men, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross." Now are you saying that it doesn't say that? If this verses are wrong can you explain? I have a feeling that when you read you don't want to take into account God's attributes. If you do, it will not match with your thinking. But its there. Just look at Romans 9:11-13, "Though they wre not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of eleection might continue,
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


2. You had asked me a question and I took the time to explain and put down Scriptures why. I was expecting you to write some Scriptures for me. Just take your time, and don't be in a hurry. I will be waiting to see the Scriptures you have. If God is not Omniscience I need to know. In 1 Peter 1:20, "(Christ) who as a sacrifice for sin was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world." Acts 2:23 "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge,
---Lupe2618 on 9/16/05


Pierr, you did not make it visible so I can answer you. Are you saying what I wrote on the Scriptures don't say what I wrote? You say things but I don't understand because I don't know what it is you are asking. What part don't you believe? Seems to me you don't agree on my answers but you only show your feelings and what you think, not what is in Scripture. Even on the other answers you gave, you put down nothing. Can you show Scriptures so you can prove there was no Foreknowledge?
---Lupe2618 on 9/16/05


For God to grasp human death, HE had to die a human. He took human form & allowed death to take Him. To believe God took a part of Himself & let it die so He could resurrect it is nothing. God had to die, not a 1/3. That's like throwing a son overboard to show love knowing it's a simple to retrieve him. God died for us so we might be saved. Pain unlike any we feel. Humans live with death from birth, expecting it. God had to experience it totally to understand. Praise His glorious Name. God our Saviour.
---mike_fl on 9/16/05


Lupe3
Your next paragraph 7 makes some good pts, but in the end I still see it a bit as a "mystery" how God could know everything before it happened without using predestination to end up with result He knew would mark an event or a person's life. I think that's what faith is for!
---Pierr7958 on 9/16/05




Lupe2
It also seems to imply that the Jesus part of the God Co. was 100% sure to succeed in His Mission. I don't know but I have a feeling that in the mids of his when he found His disciples asleep and felt abandoned by His father, he may not really have been sure of His victory, even though He did talk about rebuilding the temple (to be resurrected in 3 days).
TBC
---Pierr7958 on 9/16/05


Hello Lupe:
Refering to your answer about predestination vs forknowlege I did not care too much for part of your first statement:" I have to believe in some form of predestination...it is there even if we don't want to admit it."
My problem with this statement is that it implies that the Jesus part of the God Co. had no choice to come to this earth to carry out the Father's will. We know better, He volunteered for the mission. TBC
---Pierr7958 on 9/16/05


Yes, Jesus suffered the humilation and pain of our shame. (emotionaly,physically & spiritually) Sin separates from God. Our sins separated Jesus from God. Something very foreign to him. that is why he cried our "my God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me"
---Tsuanne on 9/16/05


Lets say that God did not have a plan, and He created everything and man's fall took him down, blind, dead spiritually, no desire for God, and everything is just happening by chance and fate, then there would be no certainty that anyone would come to Christ, no certainty of our prayers been answered, no Revelations. So many things would be uncertain because there is no plan. Some how we have to believe God has an order of things. That He has a reason, and is Holy and Just. That we can depend on Him.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


7. otherwise God could not foreknow such actions as certain. Foreknowledge does not make future acts certain but only assumes them to be so; and it is a contradiction of terms to say that God foreknows as certain an event, which in its very nature is uncertain. We must either say that future events are certain and that God knows the future, or that they are uncertain and that He doesn not know the future. Either He foreknows or He doesn't.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


6. A person can do two things, try to find out why these Scriptures are there, or they can just not use any of them. Just think, if we, with our very limited knowledge of other men's natures and of the influences which will play upon them, are able to predict their actions with reasonable accuracy, shall not God, who undertand perfectly their natures and these influences, know exactly what their actions will be? The certainty of an action is consistent with the liberty of the agent in executing it;
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


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5. It is impossible to read Scripture and disregard God' Word. We have Scripture after Scripture that talks about God's Work. "God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so no human being might boast in the presence of God." The crucifixion of Christ, we are told in Scripture had its necessary place and time.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


4. no one took their free will away, are they wouldn't be responsible for what happened. Judas and his accomplices were left to fulfill their purpose, and they did as their wicked inclinations prompted them. That is why Peter charged them with the crime, but he at the same time declared that they had acted according to the purpose of God, "Him being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hands of lawless men did crucify and slay, Acts 2:23.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


3. at least they themselves did not think so for Judas later came back and said, " I have sinned in that I have betrayed innocent blood;" and then Peter heard the cock crow and remembered the words of Jesus, he went out and wept bitterly. In these last two incidents we can see that Judas did everything out of his own free will and yet fulfilled the decrees of God concerning Jesus. Also Peter, he too did what was in his heart and yet fufilled what Jesus had told him was going to happen.
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


2. the parting of Jesus garments and the casting lots by the Roman soldiers, Peter's denials of Jesus, the crowing of the cock, the spear thrust into Jesus, the capture of Jerusalem and carrying away of the Jews into captivity, the destruction of Babylon, etc. It is plain that the writers of Scripture believed these free acts to be fully foreknown by the divine mind and therefore absolutely certain to be accomplished. The foreknowledge of God did not destroy the freedom of Judas and Peter-
---lupe2618 on 9/16/05


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Hello Pierr, I have to believe in some form of predestination from God's point of view in His plan. It is there even if we don't want to admit it. Let me say it this way, the Scriptures contain predictions of many events, great and small, which were perfetly fulfilled through the actions of free man with a free will. Usually these people were not even aware that they were fulfilling divine prophecy. They acted freely, and yet they were foretold. A few examples are: the rejection of Jesus by the Jews,
---Lupe2618 on 9/16/05


Predestination is a fact co-existing with freewill, this is called a paradox.

The life of Christ in us, the things done for the kingdom are predestined and God will bring them to pass. (Ephesians 2:10)

Harsh?
John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above...Let's say 'right on.'
---Pharisee on 9/12/05


Yes he was separated from the Father on the Cross...

If he never sinned then his cry of "why have you forsaken me" speaks loud and clear.

Some would contend that he merely felt forsaken, but those were not the words from his lips.

People like to confuse the human and devine aspects of Jesus' nature, the human was ALWAYS in subjection to the devine.

Flesh was tempted but the spirit never slipped, that flesh glorified for our redemption.
---Pharisee on 9/11/05


lUPE: tWo things bother me in your answer:
You leave me with the impression that you believe in Predestination, which you call preknowledge. Do you blieve in predestination?
Also I find you excessively harsh with Father. I believe that Christ died for sins, in our place, and what killed him literally was the gravity of sin = seeming abandonment of his father AND what still killa him today, figuratively speaking is our refusal to DO HIS WILL and thus show that we truely love him.
---Pierr7958 on 9/10/05


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Elder: This was a discussion started, plus it is helping reinforce my beliefs.
---Madison on 9/10/05


4. Yet He "was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge" Not Pilate nor Herod not Judas nor Jews Nor Romans but the heavenly Father crushed Jesus. If ever there was someone whom God should have protected from injustice, it was Jesus. Unless He died as the substitute for sinners, His death was the greatest miscarriage of injustice. We should be so grateful for God's grace, and for His Son's sacrafice.
---lupe2618 on 9/10/05


3. from heaven today "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." If Jesus pleads for sinners, they can be confident He will not reject them for trusting in Him. Christ prays for those who do not pray for themselves. If He made intercession for transgressors, He is even more intend on pleading for believers whom He has cleansed from every transgression. Brother Herb is correct. "you, with the help of wicked men, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross,"
---lupe2618 on 9/10/05


2. How very expressive this passage is. Christ does not merely bear our punishment but our iniquities too! The top and bottom of it all is, "He will bear their iniquities." Here is a literal substitution of Christ in our place. Our sins are given to Him, and His righteousness is credited to us. Sin can't be in two places at one time. So when Christ takes our iniquities, they are gone, and we are righteous in God's sight. The intercession Christ made from the cross He still makes
---lupe2618 on 9/10/05


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"After the suffering of His soul, He will see the light (of Life) and be satified; by His knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and He will bear their iniquities." We are not to depreciate the bodily sufferings of Jesus, but His deeper agony came from the suffering of His soul. The soul sufferings of Christ were the the soul of His sufferings. Christ's blood could not fall to the ground in vain, as some think. A sure and glorious result must come of the suffering of His soul.
---lupe2618 on 9/10/05


What is the truth (reason) that lies behind the baptism of Jesus Christ by John the baptist on the river Jordan? is it that John(as the High priest) through laying on his hands on Jesus passed all the sins of the world, (past, present & future sins) onto Jesus as the sacrificial lamb of God? And Jesus carried it for three years and then finally to the cross, where He paid for it.(shed His blood)
---Ronnie on 9/10/05


Jesus suffered physically, mentally and spiritually.
Physically; He was beaten, abused, spit upon, beard pulled out, stripped naked, stabbed with a spear, abandoned and murdered by torture.
Mentally; He sweat blood.
Spiritually; God forsook Him.
There is more that goes with all of these.
I hope this question was asked to start discussion if not please contact me at elder2291 so I can help some.
---Elder on 9/9/05


Yes, He suffered separation from His Father. "Eloi, Eloi Lama Sabacthani!"
---Jerry on 9/9/05


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First He suffered great physical pain, sweating blood!
Then He suffered the mental agony of feeling abandoned by his father and we know they were very close. He was also abandoned by his disciples who slept when He needed them to pray for him.
But the greatest suffering was due to the fact that while Jesus did come back after three days, when dying He actually felt seperated from his father, as though He experienced the 2nd death! That feeling of abandonment and seperation really killed him.
---Pierr7958 on 9/9/05


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