Abundant Life In Bradford UK
Do any of you in U.K. live in North of England and have you visited Paul Scanlon's church - Abundant Life in Bradford? If so what's it like, is it worth a special long journey?
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---M.A. on 9/11/05
Helpful Blog Vote (45)
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Anon: Now, apart from your loved ones, you have openly dismissed Scanlon's followers to their fate. You've found your refuge in the temporal with the psychotherapist. You've accused me of nonsense dogma and mis-guided views yet - like ALC proponents - offer no biblical reproof. So who are you to place parameters on this blog and who do you stand for besides you and your own? As for your impromtu psychoanalysis of me, instead of relaying what you pick up at your psychotherapist's, why don't you start relaying from the bible? For the record, forums are for discussions but journals (weblogs) are for observations. |
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---John_II on 7/19/08 |
John II: As I have already stated I dislike Paul Scanlon's teaching and would not attend the ALC as I have people in my family who have been hurt by the place. With that in mind I also think you would do well to stop trying to bully people on this forum with your equally arrogant and mis-guided views. Why don't you try and get along with people instead of trying to brow beat them into submission. You seem like you have a great deal of suppressed anger in you and are passive agressively taking it out on people who come on here for a DISCUSSION. Have you always been right about everything all the time? |
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---Anon on 7/17/08 |
johnH: this is where pastors like Scanlon regress you spiritually. He inflates you with buzz-terms like 'to empower you', couple this with his warnings for you NOT to be influenced by those outside the ALC and you WILL commit these biblical fuax pas. Paul Scanlon's fruits will be paraphrasing his 'Jesus is irresponsible, did you know that?' citation with the same misguided assurity. They will be respond acserbically when challenged and then indignantly demand not to be judged. These are the cleverly devised schemes for dishonest gain that the bible warns.
Holy matrimony - start your search in Genesis.
Your contradiction is notable too - marriage...wife! |
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---John_II on 7/15/08 |
ali: do you attend the ALC? |
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---John_II on 7/13/08 |
No John 11 I do expect you to quote chapter and verse. So please do. Marriage is NOT biblical. Union between man and wife is but marriage is man made not God made.\So please quote me scripture :-) |
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---JohnH on 7/13/08 |
johnH: As yet another fruit of Paul Scanlon's, this is where he is judged. It's quite perverse and shameful that you [his fruits] should try to acquit him with demands on God's Word - and denounce the church of Jesus Christ. God is for marriage and family - He started them! Satan wants to disband all unions because together we're stronger - in love! This is why Jesus came to destroy the Devil's work. Did you expect a chapter, verse and quote? This is where you need true pastoral guidance instead of the bespoke religion of the ALC. |
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---John_II on 7/12/08 |
IF a leader is lording it over people, Peter is very clear > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
Fear > "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom," we have in Proverbs 1:7.
So, the word fear has different meanings. Fear of God is NOT like how an abused child will show more love to the abusive parent than to the nicer parent. |
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---Bill_bila5659 on 7/11/08 |
John 11... of course I am God fearing! I have been through too many trials in my life to not believe God is the only one who can help me through (which he has) You dont know me so it would be nice if you didnt judge me just because I went to ALC to see a band play... where 1 of my friends became a christian!!!! thankyou! |
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---kate on 7/11/08 |
To know God is to fear him? interesting. I always believed fear came from the Devil? Fear is a negative conitation of a god that holds a thunderbolt at your head if you step out of line. This teaching is also very dangerous. At the end of the day the bible clearly states that God loves the world. John do you fear those you love? |
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---ali on 7/10/08 |
Ok John prove it. Where in the bible does it say that Satan said I want to destroy marriages and split families. In my experience the Church does that quite well itself. ALC promote family/marriage not demean it. |
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---johnH on 7/10/08 |
Sam & Kate: Could you truly be God fearing? To know God is to fear Him, to know God is to know Christ, to know Christ is to know the evil works of Satan. Satan wants to exalt himself, to divide the church, to break up marriages, to split families. These are exactly the same things that Paul Scanlon is doing. |
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---John_II on 7/9/08 |
In these days when truth is hemorrhaging in our nation - the one sanctuary that you should be able to find veritible refuge is the church. Paul Scanlon is estranged from biblical adherency so therefore he is lying to you. Yet he has to prevaricate to keep you attending: with sound doctrine you won't attend, flagrantly unsound doctrine you won't attend. That which you like from the bible and that which you want from the world. The ALC knows it's audience. |
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---John_II on 7/9/08 |
leeland are a christian band from America who were playing at ALC at one of their sunday night meetings so I went to see Leeland playing! |
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---Kate on 7/9/08 |
Kate "i went to see leeland there a couple of weeks ago". What do you mean by this? |
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---RitaH on 7/8/08 |
I agree, look on the church site and read 'the church I see' section. If it sounds like a cult, stay well away. If, indeed, it sounds like a christ following bible based church with a heart desperate to see this sinful world turn to Jesus, then by all means, make your way up and take part in it for yourself! |
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---Sam on 7/6/08 |
yeh it is worth a special trip down. i went to see leeland there a couple of weeks ago and it was a great atmoshpere! God was really there! the alter call was amazing and no-one begged of your money as you all have been saying! Go and make your mind up yourself if it is worth the trip!!! |
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---kate on 7/2/08 |
Anon: secular guidance and the worldly teachings of Scanlon are tantamount to the same thing - appeasement of the conscience. The conscience is the frontline of the soul, anything outside of God's Word you allow through is detrimental. The mind specialist won't know but Scanlon should that the plans of men are futile next to God's - blessed is he who walketh NOT in the councel of the ungodly. Know that the subconscious motif of the secular is we may be damned but we'll be damned together. |
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---John_II on 6/13/08 |
Cathy, courses of any kind are organized by people to a specific agenda. I have been on one. It was not a complete waste of time, because the follow up was to dedicate yourself to self education. So I was gradually drawn to the one infallible truth, the Bible. That is what teaches me on a daily basis and has opened my eyes much more than any course, retreat etc. ever did. Including education of course. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher. |
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---frances008 on 6/11/08 |
Cathy, courses of any kind are organized by people to a specific agenda. I have been on one. It was not a complete waste of time, because the follow up was to dedicate yourself to self education. So I was gradually drawn to the one infallible truth, the Bible. That is what teaches me on a daily basis and has opened my eyes much more than any course, retreat etc. ever did. Including education of course. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher. |
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---frances008 on 6/11/08 |
John: How DARE you tell me that because I visited and received sucessfull council from a secular therapist that there is something wrong with my conscience. I am sorry to shatter your world but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I could at this point accuse you of the kind of nonsense dogma which leads the likes of Paul Scanlon being able to attract so many people in the first place. (and I am no supporter of his as already stated).............. |
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---Anon on 6/10/08 |
Can you not see how offensive that comment would be to someone that has suffered for years and years with depression? For your information I am a christian and have not compromised my beliefs one single bit in any of the therapy that I have undertaken. Whatsmore I have the intellectual ability to comprehend that the mind has clinical elements just the same as the physical body does. Do you refuse ALL science or just the parts which don't fit in with your blinkered, dogmatic and patronising views? |
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---Anon on 6/10/08 |
Anon: the secular therapists help you to deal with your conscience, this does not necessarily leave you with a good one! They have you believe that you're exceptionally challenged yet there are others like you - it's normal nowadays! Well it's really moving the good/bad threshold ever so slightly. And how evil creeps - now we accept as normal that which was considered unhealthy, unnatural and unholy just 10 years ago. The bible hones the conscience rightly. |
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---John_II on 6/10/08 |
Anon: How Satan has his way with the secular! Please read Mark 8:33. If Jesus ever saves you, you don't just get comfortable and leave the rest to rot! We try to save like He saved us! Those are good people going there: who just don't see the deception of just don't want to! Like many cult followers, they hope that passageway is secured through their leader. You may think it's just a merry dance that Scanlon is leading them on but he is seriously stunting their spiritual growth. |
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---John_II on 6/10/08 |
Ok Jst come on this blog and totally baffled by conversation. John Plz put it in laymans terms |
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---Eileen on 6/8/08 |
John: Whilst I agree with you that ALC is a cult, take a bit of time out mate. you are coming across as a bit obsessed with bringing this church to its senses or something. If people are daft enough to give Paul Scanlon all their money in exchange for him telling them what they want to hear then more fool them. The point is ALC is not a dangerous cult that it likely to commit mass suicide......(contd) |
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---Anon on 6/8/08 |
.....It is just a crafty and devious man who enjoys an enormous salary by swindling gullible people out of their hard earned wages.
By the way .... I received more effective help for dealing with frequent lifelong depression from six sessions with a phychotherapist than I did in six years of being preached at and told I wasn't good enough! There are many different perspectives in this world. Try and embrace one or two others and you might spend less time on the internet on some pointless crusade. |
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---Anon on 6/8/08 |
Hi, I was at ALC for a year on their Academy, which involved 3 hours of lectures every weekday. The subjects studied included Bible Overview, the Character of God, servant leadership, being a people helper, the purpose of the church. I helped in the discovery course (similar to Alpha) and saw many people make very genuine commitments to Christ. I finished my course with a deeper relationship with God, a greater passion for His church and a greater awareness of my purpose. It is a good church. |
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---Cathy on 6/8/08 |
Do we believe those that comein as wise and learned 'theologian' arbiters? They were quick to go against biblical adherency and favour Scanlon, who teaches from the world's viewpoint. Or those that claimed they are/were church leaders, now disallusion and accepting the ALC could be the last bastion of hope? Or those that show indifference - maybe they'll attend? Or those that use human acts so you stand downon Jesus' will??? Yet they deny attending that church. It's about fruit! |
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---John_II on 6/7/08 |
ALCers: human adaptation of the Way is like human adaptation of the eco-system - initial calm then chaos then remedy which invariably triggers more problems in decreasing degrees until we can learn to live with it. Now that's your secular way: more lawyers, therapists, psychiatrists, specialists, and any crafty pastor's chance for opportunity. Each time getting further away from God - it's not God's plan that needs changing - we're the deviants! |
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---John_II on 5/28/08 |
ALCers: these ALC proponents/ beneficaries want to keep you being tossed about in a sea of interpretational uncertainty. This keeps you biblically floundering and more likely to latch onto Scanlon as a dependant. With Scanlon notwithstanding, you cannot get into Heaven by saying I'm with that guy by being in league with him but not the bible. Seek God in biblical truth, He gives you descernment. Jesus has shown you the Way so follow Him! |
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---John_II on 5/28/08 |
Chris: if you don't entirely agree with Scanlon's interpretations then you must hold his doctrine as unsound! I think that you are closer to that church than you want to admit. What is core doctrine?? How can you have reached an assumption if you had not understood the conclusion. Your caution on Christians dividing themselves conflicts with your championing of Scanlon - the man who efforts to divide the church. |
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---John_II on 5/28/08 |
Bless you John. You put words into my mouth and use them to argue against. Nowhere have I said I consider ALC doctrine unsound. I am not close enough to the church to be able to comment on that. There may be things I disagree with Paul on just as I may disagree with you on things that are open to interpretation. But once again I presume that we would agree on core Christian doctrine. |
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---Chris on 5/26/08 |
You seem to be a man of half-truths. Prior to CHRISTMAS I challenged where you were taking one phrase from a sermon and commenting on people's Christian status because YOU didn't like the way words were used. And yes a month ago I stated that I hadn't listened to any messages BUT then listened to the ones you pointed out and commented I could not understand how you draw the extreme conclusions you do. I can only assume you deliberately omit and misrepresent to serve your purposes. |
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---Chris on 5/26/08 |
Motives? John 17:20-26. Christians spend so much time and energy trying to divide their own body, usually over interpretation of words or points of view rather than actual heretical teaching. This seems to be what your posts reflect. I would suggest to ANY one in ANY church to hold what is taught to them against the bible as the Bereans did in Acts 17:11. But I would not judge their personal relationship with Jesus based on differing opinions. |
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---Chris on 5/26/08 |
ALCers: there is no Modern Day Christian! If you believe that God's Way needs modernising then you believe it needs humanising, that's a fact. Do you really believe that God's Purpose for us is failing and that He needs to change His plan to accommodate us? Has He really chosen one brave pastor to assist Him? If so then you really think that God and Scanlon are co-dependent in saving our souls? |
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---John_II on 5/17/08 |
ALCers: in these days where our children are being heavily influenced by gangster rappers and succumbing to inner city ghettoisation, Paul Scanlon deems it appropriate to advertise his events by parading in his sports car while waving a replica gun. He feels this is appealing to the current age and will attract them to church. God is not the tempter? God wants you to love Him as He loves you, the right way. No machinations, no chicanery. |
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---John_II on 5/17/08 |
ALCers: 2-Peter and 2-Timothy are loaded with warnings of pastors like Paul Scanlon. Now if you can read these and not understand them, then God has not bestowed you with the discernment you need. Why not? Could be many things or just the one, following wayward doctrine will certainly count against you. Don't think - well, I know the doctrine is unsound but I'll stay with ALC for now. I can always go to a real church later - I'm sure that God will treat you with the same reciprocation. |
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---John_II on 5/17/08 |
Chris: What are your motives here? You talk of credibility, you joined this blog a few weeks back stating that you knew nothing of Paul Scanlon and his ALC yet you felt compelled to defend him. You accept that his doctrine is unsound but now you side with him vehemently? Come on Chris! Aren't you just another stooge trying to rubbish my pointing out of Scriptural flaws and appealing to the biblically ignorant? That's who Paul Scanlon wants in his flock! |
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---John_II on 5/17/08 |
ALCers: again Paul Scanlon and/or his proponents wield the you mustn't judge to keep you docile. I again caution you that the bible states that as Christians we can and must judge the church by the bible. Otherwise pastors like Paul Scanlon will just ride roughshod over doctrinal intent. We don't judge the world otherwise we'd be like the Pharisees - looking down on everyone. In seeing your righteousness the world judges itself. |
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---John_II on 5/17/08 |
ALCers: Paul Scanlon, his circle, his proponents, (his aliases?) defend their religion exploitation with the very arguments that condemns them - denomination, interpretation, contemporisation, seek fault find fault, etc. In the end when you fall short of spiritual prowess, they [ALC] will absolve themselves of all accountablity by saying that it's you and your personal relationship with God that has a problem. |
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---John_II on 5/16/08 |
John: There is only one person coming across as arrogant and self righteous. I suggest Matt 7:1-5 (again) as a biblical caution to your vitriolic comments. You seem obsessed with YOUR understanding of words and biblical matters being the only interpretation. As far as your ability to relay what ALC communicates you have lost all credibility for me with your prejudiced misrepresentation of the messages on Premier. I guess if you are looking for negative so much you may find it hard to see any positive. |
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---Chris on 5/15/08 |
Grouping everyone who disagrees with you as 'Scanlonians' is disrespectful. And in fact your comments do more to place Paul Scanlon on a pedastal then any I've heard from his messages. I have no doubt that ALC and Paul Scanlon aren't a perfect church and pastor because they're human like us. But do they uphold the gospel truth of Jesus as the only way to God? Are they interested in unsaved people? Is the church involved in the community they're in? If so I can only surmise they are a Christian church. |
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---Chris on 5/15/08 |
BH: was it any wonder why I felt no presence of the Holy Spirt after Paul Scanlon had just communicated to us an irresponsible Christ who goes berserk over meager offertories? Christians believe the bible but what you believe there is the doctrine of the self-preeminated Scanlon. His is not the Gospel, just human idealogies that your itching ears want to hear to justify this present age's lifestyle. |
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---John_II on 5/10/08 |
John I am wondering if you have ever had unbelievers at your church or for that matter ever shared the gospel with someone who does not believe the same as you? In doin what Paul did you relaxed the congregation thus giving space for the Holy Spirit to move, then not protectin the clique but giving opportunity. |
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---BH on 5/9/08 |
Julia: at the end of his blasphemous commentary, Paul Scanlon's ALC turned to candlelight, he put on some soft music and told us to close our eyes. In sypathetic tone he mentioned how he knew that there were unbelievers among us and how that was our decision and the rest shouldn't be swayed. Now know that this tactic protects the clique! You see, we don't go back thus eliminating any righteous murmurings. Paul Scanlon doesn't want true biblical believers there, just his believers. |
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---John_II on 5/8/08 |
i was at ALC on sunday night to hear the guest speaker... and as soon as the speaker stepped doen, Paul got up and did an alter call and people came forward to recieve Christ for the first time.. from what i saw, nothing was unbiblical and all this talk you all keep saying about him going after peoples money... every time i have have been not once have they gone on and on about money, they tell you it is your choice if you want to give!!! |
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---Ju_lia on 5/7/08 |
Andy_B: Like I stated...it's still theft! Don't you know that by the very definition of Judgement that our cases will be in His consideration? Theft is theft and divorce is divorce! With the knowledge of God's Will you then have the freewill to make your choice, but don't feel so assured by Scanlon's presumption on God's Word that your case for divorce will be justified on account of his say-so. |
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---John_II on 5/4/08 |
John 11 ....... You confirm my view that you insist that the abused or betrayed wife should receive no help from her pastor, and that he would be in defiance of Jesus if he gave help.
This then is what you advocate:
"Result ... 3 daughters with their lives polluted and ruined (and her own as well)"
No wonder you said I should not have mentioned that case here.
And you call me self-righteous? |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/4/08 |
John 11 ... "You now have the doctrine of Paul Scanlon and by veritable definition you are part of or endorsing a cult"
I have told you I am not a Scanlonian, and I know nothing of his doctrines. Your comment to me is unjustified.
The only thing I am discussiong here is your attitude to women, which somehow you claim is biblical. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/3/08 |
You said a while back that God will take into consideration the fact that if a parent steals food when they have no money, so therefore you are sayin that God changes his mind on rules... Like thats ok cos of there situation. In saying that you are worshipping a wishy washy diety. |
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---Andy_B on 5/3/08 |
Alan: Jesus Christ is the epitome of perfection that as Christians we should strive to for. The arguement that you are trying to use as leverage is the human ramification of not abiding by ALL of God's laws. Being in breach of one law does not negate another. Besides, if you have such a repulsion to this particular will of Jesus' on divorce, then maybe you will get your chance to rail at Him in your self-righteouness! |
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---John_II on 5/3/08 |
Alan: I am insistant with Jesus' will, whose are you? Jesus instructed us to do His will while He returns. So what special dispensation does Paul Scanlon have to 'communicate' an irresponsible Jesus Christ who loses control and whose will needed revision? You now have the doctrine of Paul Scanlon and by veritable definition you are part of or endorsing a cult. |
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---John_II on 5/3/08 |
So why does Paul Scanlon 'communicate' an imperfect Christ? Why does he profess to be the next of Moses and Joshua leadership lineage?
Hint: Christ is in every church all over the world. |
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---John_II on 5/3/08 |
Alan you are quite correct in saying "In the name of God, get real". These things are happening and Christians - because of misguided advice and a huge dose of "I'm alright Jack" will allow these things to happen. People are suffering unnecessarily because some Christians actually think that this is what God wants and had ordered. |
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---RitaH on 5/2/08 |
ALCers: We have God's laws, commands, decrees, precepts, instructions, etc. We are sinners and we will transgress, therefore we must truly repent: we will be judged with equity in the end. So why bring more judgement on yourself by not only defying the will of the Lord Jesus Christ but denying His will also? You are clothing yourself in arrogance and self-righteousness. I remind you that God is the Alpha and the Omega so there is nothing that has escaped Him! |
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---John_II on 5/1/08 |
John ... You seem still to say that that a woman being abused (and her daughters) in that or any way should receive no help from her pastor, save being told that the Bibe gives her no right to release herself of her abusive husband.
What you are of course saying is that a man has the right to commit any crime against his wife, physical emotional and betrayal, and she has no recourse. |
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---alan_of_UK on 5/1/08 |
Alan: Seemingly this is distressing for you but you have reached a conclusion over no premiss of mine. A pastor advises on God's Word in all matters so that the believer can make a fully informed decision. Now once you accept a pastor's inflections to the Law of God, where will it stop? That pastor would be guilty of arrogance and self-righteousness - and you would be right there with him. |
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---John_II on 4/30/08 |
Karl: we can understand why someone would divorce their partner for spousal abuse, etc. Don't you think that God understands this too? Like the poor parent that steals food for their starving child - it's still theft: don't you know that He will take these extenuating circumstance into consideration? Are you saying that God's Law needs tweaking on divorce? Perhaps you think that God's Law needs tweaking on how we judge the church too, or maybe just the ALC! |
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---John_II on 4/30/08 |
John 11 ... I am not a Scanlonian ... i have never heard of the man, and much of what I ee here that e says seems to me to be wrong
But I still see no merit in your insistence that a woman being abused (and her daughters) in that way) should receive no help from her pastor.
A pastor is a shepherd & a shepherd looks after his sheep ... need I say more? |
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---alan_of_UK on 4/29/08 |
Oh so it is ok to say "It is for god to judge" when it is a question you do not want to answer but it is ok to judge whenit is to do with ALC? |
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---KArl_Jones on 4/29/08 |
A Christian doesn't rebut God's Law because of those that break it, a Christian doesn't use an example of sin as leverage, of that which is God's to judge. There's a stark truth for those that forsake Jesus' instruction on divorce for that of Scanlon's. You are not Christians - you are Scanlonians. |
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---John_II on 4/27/08 |
John H ... I brought the appalling case tow wake you up.
And I think I have done so.
Although you still imply that in such a case, the pastor would at best say "No comment" when asked for advice. |
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---alan_of_UK on 4/27/08 |
Alan: I don't say that divorce mustn't happen and I don't suggest that all pastors' advice is prudent. We make our decision to divorce and we live and are judged by it. Pastor Paul Scanlon has no biblical authority to advise it - this is the point! Such an appalling case to have brought to this blog, quite unnecessary. |
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---John_II on 4/27/08 |
Ann: echoes of Paul's arguements there, but neither you nor Scanlon are the Judge in such sensitive cases. God hates divorce yet you are effectively slamming the bible for the sins of men. Who is Paul Scanlon to condone divorce and so presume the Word of God? |
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---John_II on 4/27/08 |
John H ... Dare I say "In the name of God, get real"?
I know a lady who on the instructions of her pastor stayed in her marriage in spite of her suspicions that her husband was sexually abusing their daughters.
Result ... 3 daughters with their lives polluted and ruined (and her own as well). |
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---alan_of_UK on 4/27/08 |
What you have just said is dangerous. So you advocate spouse abuse rather than getting out of a potentially life threatening situation. If a husband or wife does not RESPECT the other part of that relationship then beats up on him/her then it is not a Godly union so the answer is divorce. |
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---Ann on 4/27/08 |
Apostle: You've never heard Paul Scanlon labelled as the Preacher of Divorce? On one of his showcased Premier sermons he tries to spin it by stating why put up with an abusive partner when you can just get out! You know that as a pastor, Paul's role is to teach godly values to the end. Not even a pastor can advise to part that which God has brought together. |
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---John_II on 4/25/08 |
John - when did Paul Scanlon preach about divorce and what did he say? |
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---apostle on 4/25/08 |
Frank: That reads just like another non sequitur to me. Now Jesus said 'But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail'. So who is Paul Scanlon to preach divorce? As a nation we have drifted farther away from God and it is no mystery as to why more marriages are failing today, but this gives no authority to any pastor to change the Law just to suit the status quo. |
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---John_II on 4/24/08 |
You are right on that as well. The Bible does give clear guidelines on Church. I am wondering now tho whether it is easier to label one Church a cult or watever because it takes the focal point off ourselves? |
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---Ask_Frank on 4/19/08 |
Frank: on the contrary, we can tell the difference because we have the bible as reference. I have to Ask Frank, have you enough biblical endowment to risk a visit to the ALC? It's not that the place is enchanting or bewitching, it's really more seductive in that you may be willing to forego the errant doctrine in favour of the bedazzling effects of the club and induced heresy of its Communicator. |
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---John_II on 4/16/08 |
In fairness yes it is the first time I have heard of abundant life. They do seem genuine but suppose you can never tell. I may take a visit just to see what they are about. but this is an interesting blog. |
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---ask_frank on 4/15/08 |
Frank: Paul Scanlon's Abundant Life Centre - this new breed of church - is designed to suit the paying popular culture, which is why it seems so agreeable, yet it is far removed from godliness today. Now if God's Way is the best way, why should we accept Paul Scanlon's way? Now Paul has preeminated himself yet Paul the Apostle warns us of the leaders that do this? Is this the first time you've listened to Scanlon? If we recognised charlatans in the first instance then would there be any charlatans? |
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---John_II on 4/14/08 |
I have just heard Paul Scanlon on the God channel and he was talking about Christ being your sufficiency. About how you can live without as long as Jesus is at the centre. Apart from being good in principle I did not see where you can name call him as a Charlaton. If more churches spoke as honest and open sa he did maybe people would come into a living relationship with God. |
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---Ask_Frank on 4/13/08 |
No charlatan is without recrimination in his toolkit. We evince his doctrinal malign using Scripture, you retort we're white tombs, we reprove his methods of teaching you say we mustn't judge, Dedicated pastors and ministers warned you of that box of iniquity yet Paul says it's other churchs 'Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof'. Paul just accuses the accusers, a very human tactic from a man-centered man? |
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---John_II on 4/7/08 |
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