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Believe In God Without Grace

Does man possess the capability to believe in Jesus Christ apart from the grace of God?

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 ---Tina5349 on 9/22/05
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don't believe a person can believe in Jesus without the grace of God (which I take to be the special gift of insight) so that when you hear about Jesus you want to ask Him into your heart, in faith.I was saved thru the Holy Spirit working in my heart, circiumstances so painful, hearing gospel, and making the decision to believe in Jesus. After I asked Jesus into my heart, I changed completely over the years all to the good.I believe that Gods Spirit worked in my heart due to my grandmothers prayers
---barbara on 10/16/07


Romans 7 is an example--knows the truth, loves the law after the inward man, wants to obey it, but yet still a slave to sin. Freedom was found only "through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 7:25a. In other words, freedom comes when we "make His soul an offering for sin," Isaiah 53:10, we fall on the Rock and are broken.
---Wayne87 on 10/1/05


Thanks, Lupe for sharing and answering too. As to the how, it is beyond human language, but it is real--proven throughout human history as His grace is seen in changed lives. I would only add the following. Grace is unmerited favor-forgive them for they know not what they do. A measure of faith (a gift of grace) is given to every man. Yet these gifts in and of themselves to not set the slave free.
---Wayne87 on 10/1/05


Man is capable of sin only ever since "the fall". Without God's Grace, we would have been history a long time ago!

Your question explains what many are trying to do today, meet God on their terms without success.

Grace [undeserved favor] through Jesus Christ is the only way.

Man already tried his way, from fig leaves, self made religions, to philo [human] love.

If not for Echad's/God's Grace, we could never experience Agape [Godly] love.
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 9/29/05


God's grace,nercy,love is always there, even though we may not realize it.
Romans 3:24 \5:1,2
---Ulrika on 9/26/05




Tina : WE are ALL children of God made to His image & likeness we wander into the devils domain due to ignorance & earthly desire.Yes, we have that capacity to believe in Jesus from early childhood which should be provided by our parents direction."Suffer little children to come to me & forbid them not for such is the kingdom of Heaven"
---Emcee on 9/26/05


"Before sinners are born into God's kingdom through the power of the Holy Spirit, they are children of the devil and under his control; they are slaves to sin." They are free to make choices but never for God, only for themselves."
Excellent response Lupe! Thank you! This is exactly my point. Now how is this power of the Holy Spirit bestowed upon us?
---Tina5349 on 9/26/05


4, While it might be a good comment to make, it nevertheless is not Scriptural. Romans 8:7,8, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." Before sinners are born into God's kingdom through the power of the Holy Spirit, they are children of the devil and under his control; they are slaves to sin." They are free to make choices but never for God, only for themselves.
---Lupe2618 on 9/26/05


3. John 6:65, "And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." 1 Cor. 4:7, "For who sees anything different in you? What have you that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift"? A brother mentioned, no one is lost until we reject Jesus, What he fails to understand is that everyone is lost without the blood of Christ.
---Lupe2618 on 9/26/05


2. and I will raise him up at the last day. Men left in their dead state are unable of themselves to repent, to believe the gospel, or to come to Christ. They have no power within themselves to change their natures or to prepare themselves for salvation. 2 Timothy 2:25,26, "God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
---Lupe2618 on 9/26/05




Hello sister Tina, no one has the capability to believe in Jesus Christ apart from God first giving him faith through grace. Proverbs 20:9, "Who can say, "I have made my heart clean; I am pure from sin"? Ecclesiastes 7:20, "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins." Job 14:4, "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? there is not one." John 6:44, " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him;
---Lupe2618 on 9/26/05


Wayne, You said, "This measure of faith, this gift of grace is not of itself freedom apart from its acceptance."

I wonder if we might agree on some level, but I have a little trouble with the word "acceptance". I believe that faith is sheer gift and it is the instrument by which we receive the forgiveness of sins. Would you please elaborate on how you believe this great gift of grace AND faith is bestowed upon us?
---Tina5349 on 9/24/05


Apart from grace, man has no capability or even desire for righteousness--witness Adam and Eve. Perfect, then sinned. Not one note of remorse, expression of desire for forgiveness, or to be reunited with their Creator. God said, I will place in them "enmity." The new covenant is all about His "I will...." This measure of faith, this gift of grace is not of itself freedom apart from its acceptance, but does give us opportunity to choose freedom rather than the slavery we are in.
---Wayne87 on 9/24/05


Thank you Tina ... there are those who would have said "yes", but so far thay do not seem to have contributed to this blog
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/24/05


DoryLory and Tommy, do you mean to say that this grace, or "activity in our hearts" is bestowed upon us--from outside of us? If so, how? Is it this free gift of grace that creates faith?
---Tina5349 on 9/24/05


Alan,
You ask, "Is there a suggestion here that God will cause some people to have faith and therefore beleive, but he will cause others not to believe?"
Answer. An emphatic No!
---Tina5349 on 9/24/05


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Pierr,

If we cannot by nature receive the things of God, how can we participate in any way in our regeneration, i.e., invite Him to convict us and ask for forgiveness? How can a spiritually dead person do anything (spiritually speaking) for himself? Do you mean to say that we are only *mostly* dead? Mostly dead is slightly alive. The scriptures say DEAD, not *mostly* dead. And I believe this deadness is indeed, terminal, without an act of God
---Tina5349 on 9/24/05


"... IT is by grace you have been saved" (Ephesians 2:5)

"FOR it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
---DoryLory on 9/23/05


Yes, I believe anyone can "believe" in Jesus without grace. The problem is that they don't believe right things about Jesus without grace. They will agree that He was a real person, and that He maybe even healed the sick, but to them He was "just a man" who was a good teacher and lived an exemplary life. To believe that He is the Son of God requires the Holy Spirit's activity in our hearts.
---tommy3007 on 9/23/05


If you literally mean "believe" when you asked "to believe in", then yes: for many worldly and even satanic people, apart from grace, do believe in Jesus. But God's grace comes to the lowly, for when we truly humble our heart in prayer and seek the Lord, then his grace is found.
---Eloy on 9/23/05


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Is there a suggestion here that God will cause some people to have faith and therefore beleive, but he will cause others not to believe?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/23/05


Tina;
I don't think our "death" condition in this case is terminal>hopless. One way to reverse it is to invite the HS to convict us and ask for forgiveness>grace to get to know Jesus more intimidly.
---Pierr7958 on 9/23/05


A person may believe in Jesus but not on Jesus. They are two different things.
The Devils believe in Jesus and tremble yet they are not saved and cannot be.
The Bible says that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
When someone hears God's Word it is then that the faith begins to work for them to be able to accept Christ.
---Elder on 9/22/05


Linda

My question for you is this. When and how do you believe God gives this 'measure of faith' to man?
---Tina5349 on 9/22/05


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Tina,
God has given to every man a measure of faith. Man chooses in whom to place that faith....in himself or in the operation of God when He raised Jesus from the dead.
---Linda_S. on 9/22/05


i think some one could have head knowledge but not heart knowledge.
---jeffrey on 9/22/05


Pierr,
How can we invite the Holy Spirit to open our eyes when we are spiritually dead in our trespasses? 1 Corinth. 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." Ephesians 2:1 "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,"
---Tina5349 on 9/22/05


Barbara,

Are you saying that God created faith in your heart to believe in Jesus?
---Tina5349 on 9/22/05


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Not likely. Because we are born in the flesh we can see and appreciate (discern) only in a very limited way, if any at all spiritual things, until we invite the HS to open our eyes.
---Pierr7958 on 9/22/05


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