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Saints In Heaven Intercede For Us

I want to know if Pentecostals believe in asking the Saints in Heaven to Intercede for us, you know asking the Saints to pray for us. I know the cathoics have this Doctrine but does Pentecostal also have this Doctrine?

Moderator - No they don't believe that because it is a false doctrine and isn't in the Bible.

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Jesus loves you. Jesus loves you so much that He gave His precious Life on the Cross for your sins. Jesus died in your place. Jesus did it all because He loves you. Jesus died on the Cross to give you eternal life in Him.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


TO HELEN HI. i can tell that you are one who loves the truth may i share some?
what do you think the end days false religious system we were warned that yahuweh would send because people do not love the truth would look like?
it looks exactly as though it is the real truth. its not it is counterfeit!! not easy to spot says it is the bride read rev ch 17 and 18! babylon means confusion at the gate of yahuweh!!who claims to be the bride today??
---dave_read on 6/28/06


truth. there is one mediator between Yahuweh and man, that is Yahushua Ha Mashiach the righteous! he ever lives to make intercession on our behalf!! learn real truth people not religious lies! as a matter of interest, any religion that's responsible for the murder of 80,000,000 does not know what the word truth means!! that is how many the "HOLYMOTHER'S" "CHURCH" SLAUGHTERED during the dark ages!i would not be trumpeting the Whore of Babylons praises!
do research!!know truth!
---dave_read on 6/28/06


truth. there is one mediator between Yahuweh and man, and that is Yahushua Ha Mashiach the righteous! he ever lives to make intercession on our behalf!! learn the real truth people not religious lies!!
---dave_read on 6/28/06


"Augusta ... I asked you "Augusta , do you still beleive that "Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you are born-again"?

Sorry Alan, I must have missed your question. I'm still trying to figure out to get around on these "blogs". Anyway, I most assuredly believe that Christ died on the cross for my sins (and that I'm born again). This is the central doctrine of the Catholic Church and is in our creed.

Btw, Alan, what denomination are you?
---augusta on 6/28/06




Helen::1JN2:19You sure hit a live one there & the reason it is bugging you because it smacks at your situation.You were once a catholic & defected & although you have attempted to stay in Christ you have deserted Him& HIS HOLY Mother.So I would say the ball is your court,& time is ticking.
---Emcee on 6/28/06


Paul wrote that the word is comprised of the written and oral BOTH.

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Paul used some very emphatic language here. The Greek word for "hold" means to "to be strong, mighty, to prevail." Paul goes on to write: And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 2 The 3:14
---augusta on 6/28/06


Helen writes:

"God's Word is infallible. Bible IS God's Word."

I didn't ask if the bible was infallible or God's word. This we are in perfect agreement on. So no need to go here again.
---augusta on 6/28/06


Helen, 2 Tim 3:16 does not say that Scripture is sufficient; it says it's "profitable". Plus, Paul made it clear that he was only referring to the OT when he said they were known by Timothy from "infancy." in vs 15.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say that the bible is sufficient as our sole rule of faith and authority. It simply isn't in there.
---augusta on 6/28/06


Augusta ... I asked you "Augusta , do you still beleive that "Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you are born-again"?" and hoped you would say that yes you did.
But since you did not reply, does that mean that now you are RC, you no longer believe that Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you are born-again? I hope not.
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/28/06




"A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness." 2 Tim 2:24
---MaryLouise on 6/28/06


Augusta - 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". Notice "all SCRIPTURE". 2 Peter 1:20, 21 "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation", "for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." God's Word is infallible. Bible IS God's Word.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


Amen, emcee. I never knew any Catholics prior to converting (raised in the south here - Baptistland ;) However, I did meet one online once and he attempted to teach me but I ignored everything he said. Many years later after I discovered the truth of the Catholic Church I wrote him and apologized. So keep on sowing brother. :)

Blessings, augusta
---augusta on 6/28/06


That's nice, Helen. Personally I don't believe in abusing Scripture by using it as a weapon; Not to mention it's highly ineffective for witnessing. But to each his own.

Now, is there a reason you failed to answer yet another one of my questions? The subject of authority is the primary one that needs addressing before we can logically discuss any other.
---augusta on 6/28/06


Augusta::Thank you for words of encouragement.Yes, I have been Catholic from the cradle.I have found sincerity & the power of God all my life.I am no saint,but I try to be, even acknowledging that Jesus died for our sins.On my arrival I shall know if my efforts have been Fruitful.meanwhile I plod along life's weary way seeking, speaking,& knowing that the truth will prevail, inspite of dissidents interupting or trying to drag one to warmer climates in the next.We are HIS disciples.Let's not disappoint.
---Emcee on 6/28/06


Asking "saints" in heaven to intercede for us is nowhere to be found in Scripture. It is a false teaching of the RCC. It is Biblical for us to pray for one another while we are still alive here on earth. We are commanded to have nothing to do with dead people.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


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Augusta - Regarding you leaving fundamentalist Christianity and going to the RCC this Scripture has been bugging me. 1 John 2:19 says "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us".
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


Helen, I'll repent when you can answer the question I asked Criss; using the BIBLE ALONE without adding anything to the written word.
---augusta on 6/28/06


Augusta - You claim that through study and prayer you were led to the catholic church. If you really know what God's Word says, you will know that the Holy Spirit always glorifies Jesus, and leads people to Jesus Christ and Him crucified, not to any church or denomination.
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


Criss, show me where the bible says that the bible is our "sole authority."
---augusta on 6/28/06


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I'm pentecostal. I don't believe in asking the saints in heaven to intercede for me and I don't know any one who does. We are told to interecede for one another down here. I ask for things for other people for their well being. That is the extent of it. I can forgive the wrong done to me by others but my blood has no power to forgive sins done to the father.
---john on 6/28/06


Augusta,

Who said I was infalliable? Certainly not I! Sometimes I have a hard time following your line of reasoning. I believe what the Bible says. I don't add anything, take anything away, or twist it to mean what I'd like it to mean. The verses you quoted by Paul are NOT referring to what you were trying to prove at all. He is discussing an entirely different subject. You are misled and I'd hate to see you mislead others by your misapplication of Scripture.
---Criss on 6/28/06


Augusta - Excuse me but NO-ONE has the right to interpret Scripture as they see fit!!! That is nothing but the height of arrogance and pride that you think you can tell better what God's Word says than what Almighty God says. You need to repent and get back to Jesus Christ and Him crucified, if you were ever there?
---Helen_5378 on 6/28/06


"Augusta::Congratulations -welcome aboard -May the Peace & His love which we share be with You DEO Gracias."

Thank you, emcee! I've enjoyed reading your posts. So, are you a convert or a cradler? ;)
---augusta on 6/27/06


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I was once a Catholic, until I was kicked out of the Catholic Church and ultimately out of our Roman Catholic neighborhood - at the age of nine years. I was very insistent on getting answers to questions like "if the ten commandments say that we are to only pray to God, why do we pray to saints?" or "If the commandments say not to make any images of anything, why do we make images of saints?" etc. My mother was displeased for seven years.
---Steve on 6/27/06


Helen ::I am sure you do not actually read the answers one sends but just go of On a tangent Please explain how I have blasphemed & what lie did I tell against Jesus. Pray Please tell me,if you can otherwise, you are opening yourself to bearing False witness against your neighbour.But I forgive you anyway.
---Emcee on 6/27/06


Augusta::Congratulations -welcome aboard -May the Peace & His love which we share be with You DEO Gracias.
---Emcee on 6/27/06


Augusta , do you still beleive that "Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you are born-again"?
---alan8869_of_UK on 6/27/06


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"I'm sorry, but the verses you quoted by Paul have nothing what-so-ever to do with the dead interceding for the living - NOTHING! That type of intercession is not possible and goes directly against th Word of God."

Criss, you mean the pope isn't infallible but you are?? If not, then according to your rules of theology I have the equal right to interpret the Bible as I see fit. Do I not?

Now tell me, how do you affirm your interpretation of Scripure?
---augusta on 6/27/06


"What made you join the catholic church?"

Helen, I don't have a problem sharing my conversion story via email but my full answer to this would require ALOT more than 85 words... and to be honest, is far too precious to chop up into "mini-posts." The short answer though is years of prayer and daily bible study led me to the Catholic Church. I've been a Catholic for 5 years and have no doubt whatsoever that I am home at last. My conversion has been a blessing beyond measure.
---augusta on 6/27/06


Helen writes: "Augusta - Question for you. You said that you were a fundamentalist for many years - does that mean that you believed that Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you were born-again?"

Helen, absolutely! I was by definition a fundamentalist Christian in every sense of the word. Every single post of yours could have been written by me 10 years ago. ;)
---augusta on 6/27/06


Augusta,

I'm sorry, but the verses you quoted by Paul have nothing what-so-ever to do with the dead interceding for the living - NOTHING! That type of intercession is not possible and goes directly against th Word of God.
---Criss on 6/27/06


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Augusta - Question for you. You said that you were a fundamentalist for many years - does that mean that you believed that Jesus died on the Cross for your sins and therefore you were born-again? What made you join the catholic church?
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


I mistakenly posted this on the wrong board.

Helen, Jesus said that those who keeps His word will never see death.

The saints in heaven are not constricted to time and space as we are. They also know more about how to pray, for as Paul wrote: We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part: but then I shall know even as I am known." (1 Co 13:12)

Continued on post below.
---augusta on 6/27/06


Augusta - I quote you "the saints in heaven do intercede". If God does not need our intercession, then why did you say that?
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


Helen wrote: Augusta - What you believe will have a bearing on how you read God's Word."

Helen, this can be very true. However, I was a fundamentalist for many years before converting to the Catholic Church, so I've studied the Bible in both lights.
---augusta on 6/27/06


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No, unlike Catholicism, Pentecotals are christians and don't worship saints or the Virgin Mary.
---ralph on 6/27/06


Helen, first of all, I never once even insinuated that God "needs" our intercession. That is what's called a strawman argument. And accusing someone of blasphemy for something they never declared is called bearing false witness and is a sin.
---augusta on 6/27/06


Emcee - It is blasphemy because it is telling an outright lie about Jesus Christ the Son of God.
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


John, you missed the point. How do the elders acquire these prayers of the earthly saints?
---augusta on 6/27/06


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Helen::"To say that Jesus the son of God needs someone to interceed FOR HIM is Blasphemy"No one interceeds For GOD those little prepositions will get you in trouble all the time.HE is God & dosen't need intercession, but anyone & even the living on earth as well as Heaven, can invoke His aid through a living saint.BTW how is it Blasphemy?
---Emcee on 6/27/06


Augusta - What you believe will have a bearing on how you read God's Word. If you believe what the RCC teaches you re mary, etc. you will probably read God's Word in that light. If on the other hand you believe what God's Word says about His Son Jesus Christ and Him crucified you will then read God's Word in it's correct light, the light of the Cross of Christ.
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


2/... Augusta, Jesus is both Mediator and intercessor...see 1 Timothy 2:5 (Mediator) and Hebrews 7:25 (Jesus our Intercessor).
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


Augusta - Have you ever heard a dead person speak? I know what you will say -- they are alive in heaven. Their souls are in heaven, but their bodies are down here awaiting the resurrection -- they have not yet put on the incorruptible. To say that Jesus Christ the Son of God needs someone to intercede for Him is blasphemy.
---Helen_5378 on 6/27/06


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Augusta. You need to read that verse yourself. It does not say that the saints in heaven are intereding it says the 4 beasts and 24 elders offered up the prayers of the saints. No one in heaven intercedes on our behalf except Jesus.
---john on 6/27/06


The saints in heaven do intercede as they offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth (Rev. 5:8). Interecession and meditation are two different things. Christ is the only Mediator, yet we saints (earthly and heavenly) are all called to be interecessors (Jas. 5:16). We don't cease being members of the Lord's church when we die. And, when we attain heaven can you imgaine not wanting to help any and all who are seeking Christ?
---augusta on 6/27/06


The bottom line is that God clearly says we are to address all our prayers to Him and Him alone. The saints are dead and buried. Lenghty discussions about all this isn't even necessary!
---taylor on 11/10/05


Lynda::I am sorry, You dont agree with me, I am no one. But it is not I, BUT GOD who you do not agree with Geneses 3,v15 shows it as clear as night is from day.May be like Debbie you are having the same difficulty read Mat 11 25-26 God fortells the future.he is God & knows every thing.Reread all my blogs on this subject.
---Emcee on 11/9/05


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Amen Moderator, that is false doctrine.
Jesus is the ONLY mediator between us and God the Father. The bible forbids any 'communication' with the dead.
---NVBarbara on 11/9/05


If mary was sinless why does she call GOD her
saviour Luke 1-47? Sinless people have no need for a saviour!---mima 11/9/2005
---mima on 11/9/05


Emcee, i dont agree with u when u say Mary was sinless. The bible says that in sin we were conceived and Mary wasnt exactly a super human being so how could she have been sinless? The only sinless one is Jesus cos He was conceived of the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. Mary found favour in God's sight like a host of other men of God in the bible.
---Lynda on 11/1/05


Mod:-) Intercession.
---Emcee on 10/18/05


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Mod: Alan of uk has done an exemplary job of explaining the difference between the Christian & Rcc viewpoints regarding Saints:All saints, all Souls & Hallow's eve.The following or intercession, is a matter of your choice so I shall agree to disagree.It has worked for me on numerous occasions.Same as my belief in the body & blood of Christ in which I partake every week.

Moderator - "It has worked for me on numerous occasions" - What worked for you?
---Emcee on 9/29/05


Moderator #5... All Souls Day, was sometimes called All Hallows and then came the unbiblical idea that on this night the souls of the dead came out of the grave.
Halloween "celebrations" seem to have started in the USA, and are becoming increasing common in the UK. An abominable tradition, dressing up as witches and devils etc, and not only totally twisting the original celebration of Saints, but also, on a secular aspect, causing terror to many victims of the trick or treat door knocking.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Moderator #4... So All Saints day, or All Souls Day is when we clebrate the lives of those who have gone before, and many churches have around tha special services where bereaved people can come and share together in remembering their loved ones.
But, we do NOT pray to them, or for them, or ask them to pray for us. We do not even take it upon ourselves to say they are in heaven, because we cannot know that.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Moderator #3... But basically a great amount of RCC tradition was maintained, including Apostolic succession, and the recognition of Saints. A lot of the unbiblical things were now discarded, following the Reformation's rejection of the errors of the RCC.. So now, Saints or Mary were not venerated, but their lives still celebrated in the use of those church names.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


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Moderator #2... There are in the CofE Prayer Book various Saints Days, on which some of the major saints are celebrated. This is again an inheritance from the RCC. England became Protestant mainly because of Henry's wish to marry again, and to wrest power from the Vatican. The Protestant Divine Right Of Kings gave a perfect excuse to make England protestant.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Moderator #21... There are in the CofE Prayer Book various Saints Days, on which some of the major saints are celebrated. This is again an inheritance from the RCC. England became Protestant mainly because of Henry's wish to marry again, and to wrest power from the Vatican. The Protestant Divine Right Of Kings gave a perfect excuse to make England protestant.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Moderator #1... All Saints Day is celebrated by the Anglican Church here in the UK, and I should imagine it is by the Anglican communion in the USA ... I think there they are called Episcopalian?
The Anglican Church of England does share some traditions with the Roman Catholic Church, from which we broke at the time of the Reformation
We have parishes named after Saints, or Mary Magdelene or Mary the Virgin. My own church is named after a St Edyth
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


I left out the part of the verse 1Cor.1:2 ...sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord,
Phil.4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you. 22. All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household. Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---Ulrika on 9/29/05


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1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, TO THEM THAT ARE SANCITIFIED IN CHRIST JESUS, ALL THAT IN EVERY PLACE CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, both theirs and ours:
Acts 9:13,32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he come down also to the saints which dwelt al Lydda. Romans 12:13 Distributing to necessity of saints; given the hospitality. Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
---Ulrika on 9/29/05


Emcee,

Please show the scriptures for your beliefs of what is a Saint, otherwise the Christians viewing your statements will believe it is Catholic tradition versus Biblical scripture that you are following.
---Moderator on 9/29/05


All:Thanks for your input regarding the saintly subject. Views of denominations are different my perspective was RC
Paulette:I was not aware that there were 2 kinds of saints I defined saint as you claimed you were all saints who were living and of this world.WE of this earth are mostly sinners-- sinners are not saints- its a delusion.That is why we seek Gods mercy & strive to improve our life with God. The apostles creed is TRUE & biblical.Mod:All Saints is celebrated in the US.

Moderator - Where? Do you live in the USA? Is it a Catholic celebration?
---Emcee on 9/29/05


Nor do we ask them to pray for us
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


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Emcee "Saints are those of the departed who have proved worthy to be called & canonnised as Saints. these are the people cited in the Apostles creed"
This may be the Roman Cahtolic interpretation of the word ... but this is one way in which you differ from other Christians.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Moderator ... Many Christians celebrate All Saints Day.
We celebrate the lives of those who have gne before and who are now with God. We do not pray to them, or for them ...we just give praise and thanks for their lives.

Moderator - It's not something celebrated in the USA. Is it widely celebrated in Europe?
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/29/05


Emcee, how can one know if someone is in heaven? Nobody knows their hearts, you may be praying to people in hell for all you know.
By being saved, I am a saint! Will you pray to me when I die?
Read Eloy's scriptures please.
---NVBarbara on 9/29/05


Emcee, the kind of 'saint' that you refer to is only recognised by the Roman catholic church. It is not scriptural AT ALL. Scripture refers to true believers as saints. Some of those are now in Heaven of course but many of us are still alive and sharing what we can with each other. If you disagree please post scriptures that refer to the 'saints' to which you and your church refer.
---Paulette on 9/29/05


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"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Jesus says to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." I Timothy 2:5; John 14:6. Please read John 10:1-15.
---Eloy on 9/29/05


Ruben, the context is Matt 22:23-33; the subject is the resurrection, mentioned in v.23, 28, 30, and 31. Jesus said, "as touching the resurrection of the dead ... God is not the God of the dead ..."

In Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 1 Thessalonians, and 2 Peter (at least 16 times) Peter, Paul, and Jesus all say the dead are asleep. They will awake at the resurrection.

In Matt 17:9 Jesus called the transfiguration a vision, i.e., the prophets weren't really there.
---Jeffrey on 9/29/05


Paulette:A saint is a person who through a life of heroic virtue or martyrdom has merited the canonization of the church:A member of the church triumphant:A person known to be in heaven.One who while on earth exemplified in a special manner not only the keeping of the necessary moral law but also the practice of those counsels left by christ which are not of strict obligation.---this to me sounds like the faithful departed.

Moderator - Please show the scriptures.
---Emcee on 9/28/05


We who are alive are prone to sin & are hence NOT saints. why do protestants who are also christian celebrate All Saints day on Novr 1st every year. Saints are those of the departed who have proved worthy to be called & canonnised as Saints. these are the people cited in the Apostles creed.

Moderator - Show the scriptures please why Christians aren't saints. I am a protestant and don't celebrate All Saints day and don't know any Christians that do. Christians consider it an anti-christ pagan celebration.
---emcee on 9/28/05


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Ruben what makes you think that Elijah is dead? The Bible does not say that he is. He was taken to Heaven alive.
Remember? Moses represents the Old Testament saints and Elijah represents the New Testament saints.
---Elder on 9/28/05


thanks,

i just want to tell you people that im a Pentecostal myself. I ask this becuase i never heard of this expect for cathoics.

God Bless everyone.
---Ramon on 9/28/05


The other difference is the CofE in saying they believe in the holy catholic church, means the whole worldwide community of Christians, not just those who call themselves Catholics.
So, we are saying that we believe there is this worldwide body of Christians, be they Methodist, Anglican, Baptist, etc etc.
Whereas the RCC, who insist on calling themself the Catholic Church (which it is not because it represents only a part of the whole body of Christians) regards Catholic as meaning only the RCC.
---alan8869_of_UK on 9/28/05


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