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Baptist Denomination Beginnings

When did the Baptist denomination begin and who started it?

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 ---candice on 10/2/05
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Sorry Trey, I did not mean to rant on an on. You have not been mean spirited, and I do not recall you insisting on spreading false rumours. I just needed to vent a little and I hope that others will take my advice and check their sources or stick with the scriptures.
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Greetings Lorra,

I enjoyed reading your post. I agree, Christians should more worried about doctrine, and less about denominations in order to build up their own. Christians need to realize that other Christian denominations are not the enemy. We should seek to worship the Father in spirit and in truth(John 4:23).

Again, if I can consult with Baptist historians, and Catholic historians I will come away with two seperate dates for the beginning of the church. If that bothers you I'm sorry.
---trey on 10/31/07

Greetings Lorra,

The one point I would like to make is this: "God's people need to look for a church today that follows the doctrines and practices set forth by Christ and the Apostles. I do not believe the Lord looks at the name on the door. He looks for worship done in SPIRIT and in TRUTH." I believe you would agree.

I would also like to say that if the world had more Christians who were as strong in their beliefs as you it would be a better place.

In Christian Love,
---trey on 10/31/07

Trey P2: What I would like to see is more preaching of the Gospel. It makes my skin crawl when I see people on this site (not you in particular), spout fabrications that were made up about my Church and spreading them as if they were truth. In many cases, I do not think that the persons posting even realize that they have posted an outright lie, for it was not their own lie. They just believed it because they hoped that the source was Christian.
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Trey, we are Christians and we are called to love one another, and yes to warn each other when there is a danger (including and especially spiritually). But there is a huge difference between gently warning someone and spreading lies about them or their group in order to make them look bad. Before anyone posts on a Christian site, they need to do their homework to be certain that what they have is the truth and not a fabrication. The Internet does post lies, as do some books and television shows.
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Trey, the Bible is the Inspired Word of Godj, but other sources need to be checked. If someone is not sure about something, they should ask first before posting something as if it were true.

I do not have a problem with you personally, I just want you to see where I am coming from. How would you react if people started posting things that you knew were complete fabrications and very derogatory about your family. Would you let it slide and just move forward, or would you want to answer it?
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Trey, one last thing, I do differentiate between differences of opinion or interpretation and fabrications. If someone disagrees with me on a point of scripture, I do not consider that to be lie. Being opposed to something that actually happened is very different from making something up that never happened.

I just want to be clear on that. God bless.
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Trey, I believe in truth and I like to correct misunderstandings when they occur. History is not infallible or impeccable, but it does deserve to be treated with respect. You want to look forward and that is a good thing for to "go deep into history is to cease to be Protestant" (Neuman). I do not mind going forward, but I object to people manipulating history in order to bad mouth my Church or further their own. Lies are the domain of the Devil and should not be tolerated by any Christian.
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Trey, I am not the least bit offended. And I am not afraid of the beginnings of the Baptist denomination because I know it, and I also know that more recently than that, a small offshoot decided that they did not like their origins and sought to change it into something older. If the Reformation was right and Godly then why are some Baptists ashamed of that?
---lorra8574 on 10/31/07

Hey Lorra,

WOW! May I compliment you for your tenacity to defend your church. I did not mean to offend you. I'm not atacking Catholic history. I'm talking about the history of the Baptist church. (Why are you so affraid of where the Baptist began?)

The real point is this: "We should not be looking back at our past. We should be looking forward to the return of Christ. We should be striving to worship in the manner set forth by the Apostles."

Lord bless you,

---trey on 10/30/07

Baptists started with the Anabaptists in Germany a couple of decades after Luther nailed up his theses. You can do a Google search and read all about them.
---John1944 on 10/30/07

Trey 2: Of course the practice of baptising adults by total immersion has been accepted by the Catholic Church throughout her history. It is just that we don't only baptise adults and accept more than just total immersion as a method - although we agree that it is the most clearly and beautifully symbolic method. Just not practical in a Church as large as we are and as spread out.

If Paul can be baptised while standing up in house, then I can be baptised the same way in His house.
---lorra8574 on 10/30/07

Trey, its not hard at all. The Catholic Church can be traced historically back to the beginning - and even if you decided that Constantine was somehow are starting point, that is still centuries earlier than any other church can claim (other than the Orthodox who were once one with us). This is NO historical evidence to even suggest that Baptists extend back earlier than when their denomination was founded during the reformation.
---lorra8574 on 10/30/07

The debate about where the Baptist really came from will go on until Christ comes back.

What's interesting is that the Catholics claim one thing and the Baptist's another. The difficulty is establishing proof.

The real debate should be, "which church follows the Apostolic model?" (i.e. the model established by Christ and the Apostles.)

To my knowlege there is only one denomination following this model and most people haven't ever heard of them.

Lord bless you all,
---trey on 10/29/07

It is traced back to the Reformation in England in the sixteenth century. The baptists set out to establish a return to the New Testament Christian example of purity. John Smyth, a leading reformer, believed in adult baptism. And in 1609 he re-baptized himself and others.
---Eloy on 10/27/07

Wow. Most Baptist that I knew were aware that they did start during the Reformation. Only one small offshoot believed that they came miraculously from John the Baptist.

The Baptist Denomination began with John Smyth of Amsterdam (but born and raised in England) who actually broke away from the Anglican church because he thought it was still too Catholic. He is also responsible for a few other denominations.
---lorra8574 on 10/26/07

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Elder is correct again. Baptist cannot be traced back except to John the Baptist. I am so glad I am a baptist.
---shira_5965 on 10/26/07

Baptist churches are not protestant churches, but local assemblies that follow Christ's pattern for churches.

Baptist's trace their beginnings John the Baptist, Jesus being baptized by John.

John didn't start the church; Jesus established His church in Matthew

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Of course the rock refers to Jesus not Peter.
---Ernest on 6/14/06

When did the Baptist Denomination start.
---Roger on 3/27/06

Baptist was a denomination of Protestants who came to North America and outlawed by the Church of England somewhere around 1600.
---gregg8944 on 3/5/06

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when did the baptist denomination start
---==================== on 3/5/06

Mike, the reformers did follow sound doctrine and escaped from the slavery of the Roman Catholic Church. Their doctrinal rules of Papal indulgences and many other matters where the church was getting rich on the sins of others. I believe a good study as to what happened then will inlighten you in what the church was doing at the time. That many other denominations started from there is true, but the real Church of Christ is all believers. The body of Christ.
---Lupe2618 on 10/15/05

Calvin prayed about his beliefs & as men before him he was granted insight to God's word He shared his beliefs on baptism just as Martin, Luther, Wesley, & others did. People who came to this revelation began calling themselves by a belief/name other than Christian. Followers of Calvin became Baptists. Offshoots became primative, Southern, etc., & cemented themselves to a doctrine rather than growing further with God's revealed word. History repeats itself.
---mike_fl on 10/14/05

Lupe, I found Elder on a couple other blogs, thanks.
---Ulrika on 10/12/05

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Sister Ulrika, I don't believe brother Elder is mad. He is our brother and would never get mad. Maybe disagree but he always has great answers. I received an email from him not long ago. I know once he made me laugh with his answer. He meant it to be funny. Don't remember now what it was about, but sure made me laugh. If I met him for the first time in person, I would know right away he is our brother. We have a great family. Praise God
---Lupe2618 on 10/12/05

Herb ... you are splitting hairs.
The whole array of the Christian Church was started by Jesus ... over the centuries error set in, some found truth again, some are in minor error, some in major error & some fundamentalist churches are as bad as the Roman church, in claiming infallibility and exclusivity.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/10/05

Does anyone know why Elder has not been posting? I hope he is ok, and not angry with me.
---Ulrika on 10/10/05

1st cliff, a very special pebble you are to the Lord.
---Eloy on 10/10/05

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Sorry I'm not a "rock mass" Eloy, maybe a ..........pebble?
---1st_cliff on 10/10/05

1st cliff, Peter derived from petros means "a rock", and petra means a large rock or even "a cliff". So Cliff, Jesus could have easily said,..."and on this Cliff I will build me the assembly"
---Eloy on 10/10/05

Emcee, true born-again christians are sanctified and not in error, for we know in whom we believe and who we worship. Jesus is the Rock, the only living Rock that we christians found our whole life upon. There is only one cornerstone and one foundation for God's church, and it's not Peter, Paul, or Mary, but Jesus Christ the Son of the living God- just as Peter said. And the rock which came out of Peter's mouth was Peter's description of Jesus.
---Eloy on 10/10/05

Actually Jesus said" thou art Peter(Petros masc. meaning rock ,larger than a stone) but upon "this petras" fem. meaning "rock-mass" (were talking Gibralter here) I will build my assembly (church)"
---1st_cliff on 10/9/05

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Baptist is not a denomination, It was started by Jesus, First they were called Christians, latter they were call by several names, even anta-baptist then the anta was droped.

Read "The trail of Blood" gives history of baptist
---Rev_Herb on 10/9/05

Eloy:Sorry you are in error as many christians are.-- The ROCK is Jesus Christ & is also acknowledged by the Catholic church Peter was nominated by christ to be his VICAR & as God he had that power & this is documented .Twisting the truth is also wrong--Peter was carrying out Jesus's wishes,hence he became the successsor & by succession the present Pope is the 265thsuccessor or Pontif.True christians have been persecuted since its origin & that is what RCC is facing today.But the truth shall prevail.

Moderator - Emcee that isn't possible because Peter was married and the Roman Catholic Church didn't form until the 5th century. Jesus is the Rock and the Shepherd according to that scripture; not a person.
---Emcee on 10/9/05

Eloy; Being the translator that you are,I'm surprised that you didn't explain to Emcee the difference between "petra" and petros" (rock and rock-mass)in this scripture!
---1st_cliff on 10/9/05

Emcee, Peter said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus answered, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build me the assembly, and gates of hell will not have prevailing power against her." The rock is Jesus' identity, that Jesus is God's Son. Catholics misconstrue saying Peter has become the rock of the church, but Jesus was saying that Jesus himself is the rock which Peter revealed by confessing it. Jesus gave the keys to all his disciples. Please read John 20:23.
---Eloy on 10/8/05

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Emcee; Don't you find it strange that John,in writing Revelation,Gospel of John,1st 2nd and 3rd John circa 98AD never mention St.Linus(2nd Pope) St.Anacletus (3rd Pope) St Clement (4th Pope) or St.Everitus (5th Pope) listed in the Catholic Encyclopedia as all living in the 1st century,contempory with him?
---1st_cliff on 10/8/05

Elder ... I am puzzled. We seem to have a difference usage of words.
In the UK we have Baptist churches, and collectively they call themselves, I think, The Union of Baptist Churches. Loosely we would call them as a group "Baptist"
Now, we here say that the Baptist Union is a denomination, same as there is a denomination called the Methodists, and another called the Church of England.
I think Ulrika was referring to this denomination.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/8/05

Emcee, The Moderator is right. You instist on saying over and over the church was started under Peter. He was one of the disciples. The Holy Spirit gave powers to all the disciples. Paul also received those powers. Do you think maybe the Holy Spirit had something to do with it? Acts 1:8 \ 2:47 The disciples were called Christians fisrt in Antioch. Acts 11:26 We are followers of Christ. 1Corinthians 1:12-14 \ 3:4
---Ulrika on 10/8/05

Mod: I know your insistence that the catholic church was formed in the 5 century,maybe the word Roman Catholic is confusing the issue- but history goes back further as recorded "Jesus said "Thou art Peter & upon this rock (Christ) I will build my church etc", His church was started under Peter as his officiating selection & by succession this has continued & picked up the name Roman en route due to it being the seat of this doctrine of Christ.Catholic = Universal Belief.

Moderator - Peter as the first Pope is neither supported by scripture or history. As you may know Peter was married. Peter was a Christian not a Roman Catholic.
---Emcee on 10/8/05

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History also records a good number of "denominations" or religious groups who never were a part of the Roman Catholic Church such as the Waldenses, Albigenses, the church in Ethiopia, and many others who were persecuted by the RCC during the early dark ages even before Luther. Many were killed because they would not join the RCC, and refused to believe in doctrines they did not feel was in harmony with the Bible. Baptist as a denomination seems to go back to the 1600s.
---Wayne87 on 10/8/05

Darlene, you're right. There were a number of denominations in Biblical days. A few were, the Essenes, which practiced rigid dietary laws, purification rites and asceticism; and the zealots, which were very liberal and considered somewhat fanatical. BTW since false sects of darkness existed simultaneously as the true christianity of light, therefore it is wise not to believe old manuscripts that contradict the Bible just because they are old, for they may have been the source documents of false sects.
---Eloy on 10/8/05

I entered the information about the Pentecostal Denomination to show that since it is recorded down through History apart from RC that's evidence to suggest not all Denominations sprang from the Catholic.No doubt there were others besides the Baptist and Pentecost which existed apart from RC Church, despite a lack of recorded History.To assume all denominations came from Reformation,RC, fact,is speculation which lacks substantiation.Groups only needed the Gospel,no name, to meet,there may have been many.
---Darlene_1 on 10/7/05

St.Sylvester (listed as the 33rd pope) was contemporary with Constantine! Constantine not only liberated thr Christians but afforded the same rights to the pagans especially Mithrascism, who celebrated dec.25 and worshipped the sun.So there existed a 1/2 Christian 1/2 pagan situation that would lean one way then the other! Compromise was norm and no clear-cut worship was practiced.The empire was so vast and diverse that uniting them under a single banner was nigh unto impossable.
---1st_cliff on 10/6/05

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Elder, It's not what we are in the faith that determines our "flavor", but what we do. 10\4\05
When anyone tells their denomination the affiliation tells of their beliefs and practices. 10\4\05
Does denomination tell your faith or not. "In this view, the Baptist faith origanated from with the Separatist movement."
I know, there no direct link to John the Baptist. They got the idea of baptizing believers by immersion from the Bible.
---Ulrika on 10/6/05

Moderator;I will explain your Qs as best I can. Prior to the 5th century Christians were "underground" At the Counsel of Nicea Constantine invited 1800 bishops,but less than 400 came(from Britain to N Africa)The fact that few were Roman didn't alter the fact that they were all under the "Catholic"umberella When the Easterrn Orthodox split they were still esencially Catholic with the veneration of Mary,Icons,Saints and RC dogma!

Moderator - They couldn't have been Roman Catholic just for the simple fact the formal Roman Catholic Church didn't exist until the 5th century. It wasn't until Constantine's three sons poorly ran the empire and Rome fell that the Roman Catholic Church was formed and started changing the beliefs of true Christians.
---1st_cliff on 10/6/05

, elder, you did say you would respond to the comments i was talking about. what did you think of those six i mentioned?
---steve on 10/6/05

I don't know how anyone could trace the Baptist back to Adam although the thought is pleasant.
I explained the Church thing all ready.
Anyone who has read me understands my stand on the Word so I don't understand where your question fits in. Tell me because you cannot use the Bible to trace the Baptist back to a beginning.
What hair am I splitting? I just posted fact according to the question.
---Elder on 10/5/05

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Elder which John are you talking about? There are historians that conect Baptists back to Adam. The thing they are following is the Idea that Baptists beleive in and not one mans thoughts. Baptist is a way of life and not just a religion. Do you beleive that the Bible is the infalable word of God, and is the authouity of God? THe first Baptist Church appears to have been founded in Providence, Rhode Island by Roger Williams. This is based on what Govenor Winthrop.
---Wayne on 10/5/05

Elder, I think you are splitting hairs.
---Ulrika on 10/5/05

Alan, Ulrika explained the beginnings of the Baptist church not the denomination. Read it again you will see.
Ulrika the answer remains the same. The Baptist cannot be traced back to a beginning.
As I said before no matter what you label yourself it tells of your belief and what you practice.
We see John come on the scene being called Baptist because of his activity. He was the "dipper," preached repentance through Christ, and practiced full emersion baptism.
---Elder on 10/5/05

Protestants started it in the 16th century Reformation. 1st cliff, the Romans are not the 1st christian church, the Roman Pontiff Pilate crucified Christ; nor were the Jews the 1st christian church, the Jews received not Jesus but brought the charge "Crucify him". Stephen was the first martyr, a hellenist or Greek-speaking christian, and after his martrydom in Jerusalem, christians were first called "Christian" in Antioch, which was Syria (called, Turkey). Please read Acts 11:26.
---Eloy on 10/5/05

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Elder, The question is, When did the Baptist denomination begin and who started it. Not what do Baptist do.
Hopefuly the Bible is a good enough source, since the dictionary and google don't seem to be.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, dispising the shame, and is set down at right hand of the throme of God.
---Ulrika on 10/5/05

Emcee ... The Church of England was only one of many protestant churches startinmg at about the same time, all across Europe, all with slightly different empphases of doctrine. Calvinism was one, Lutheranism another.
As Ulrika said, the Baptist denom. was an offshot from the CofE and so is by lineage Protestant
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/5/05

Elder ... Ulrika explained the beginnings of the Baptist denomination, which is precisely what the original question asked
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/5/05

Throughout the history of the church, many have held Baptist beliefs. Those who tried to prevent the infiltration of paganism into the early church, as the Montanists, for example. Their witness was passed on to others, including the Lollards in the Piedmont of France. Baptists have always believed that what the Bible says is more important in detrmining doctrine than the "church fathers." Although it wasn't called by the name, the Baptist church was founded on the first Pentecost.
---Walter on 10/5/05

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The Pentcost Church was born in the upper room when people were Baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues.The Pentecostal Experience didn't change but continued, coming down through History and was never under RC Church.In fact it was the RC Clergy and Lay writers who wrote against the tongues and women praying for people's healing when they weren't ordained men,Priests.Although there is no Pentecostal Written History to confirm this,the fact others wrote against it confirms it existed.
---Darlene_1 on 10/4/05

The "Orthodox" church was a breakaway from the Roman church and set up in Constantinoble as part of the Byzantine empire.(included were Russian, Greek, Bulgarian, Ethiopian..etcOrthodox) Their beliefs were the same except they had an "Archbishop" as head and not the Pope! There's no history of "independant" Christian movements apart from these two blocks.

Moderator - If that is true explain who was Christian prior to the Roman Catholic Church which was formed in the 5th century? If that were true, explain how that during Constantines council of Bishops of hundreds only 3 were Roman?
---1st_cliff on 10/4/05

Ulrika you have explained the beginning of the Baptist church not the beginning of the Baptist.
Again our denominations are not what we are as much as what we do.
---Eler on 10/4/05

One thing commonly overlooked is that in the 1st 4 centuries,Christians were driven underground (persecuted) 'tll 425AD when Constentine integrated the Roman religion with the "Christian" bringing about the Catholic(universal) Church .For a thousand yrs (referred to as the dark ages) there's no history of any other "Christian" groups 'tll Marten Luther nailed his 95 theses to the Wittenberg Church door 1517.

Moderator - I agree with the first statement, however the second statement isn't true. Christians and Orthodox Christian didn't disappear after the formation of the Roman Catholic Church. Just study the history of the Orthodox Church.
---1st_cliff on 10/4/05

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Moderator, thanks for the reminder. We can get caught up in details, and miss the whole picture. In doing so we can lose our focus, which is Jesus.
---Ulrika on 10/4/05

The earliest church is traced back to 1609 in Ansterdam,with John Smyth as pastor. The group's embracing "believer's baptism" became the defining moment which led to the establishment of the first Baptist church. Shortly thereafter, Smyth left the group, and Thomas Helwys took over the leadership, the church moved back to England in 1611. This view of Baptist origins has the most historical support, and the most widely accepted view of Baptist origins.
---Ulrika on 10/4/05

Outgrowth of English Separatism view-The Baptist faith originated from within the Separatist movement, a movement which arose in Europe with the goal of breaking away from the Church of England, which previously had broken away from the Catholic Church. Those within the Church of England who wished to remain a part of the Church became known as "Puritans," they were like cousins to Separatists. According to this viewpoint, influence of Anabaptists upon early Baptists is considered minimal.
---Ulrika on 10/4/05

Alan that is what I said John did not start the Baptist faith. We cannot find the source in man.
But ain't it strange when John the Baptist was running around doing what he did (all ready explained) the RCC said that Peter was becoming the "First Pope."
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/4/05

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Cond #2-->
Now we have someone saying that, "Anything that is not Catholic is Protestant."
Then Moses and Noah would have to be Protestant.
This idea is used by the RCC for a purpose.
The purpose is, that if every group sprang from the RCC then they would have had to right at some point in time.
Notice: the RCC never had it right.
The Baptist did not leave the RCC for they were never part of it at any time so they could not be Protestant.
---Elder on 10/4/05

Elder, thanks for explaining your point.
---Ulrika on 10/4/05

Stanley - Baptists do not trace their roots back in a direct linear relationship to John the Baptist. We do believe that everything the Bible says is Gods inerrant word, which is a distinct trait of historical Baptist doctrine. We are baptized in the Holy Ghost at the moment of salvation. Clearly, baptism with fire is symbolic, as I have never seen anyone actually dipped into fire. It represents a cleansing or refining that comes with the Holy Spirit, as symbolized in water baptism.
---JustinG on 10/4/05

Elder, I repeat what I said earlier Anything that is not Catholic is Protestant. One faith kept "Protestant," yes, but every faith that is not Catholic began out of Protestantism.

Moderator - After Christ, it was Christian. By the 5th century, Christians, Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Later a Roman Catholc called Luther wrote his 95 thesis making Christians, Roman Catholic, Orthodox and then Protestants. Christians have been here from day one and according to scripture will be here until the end. Roman Catholics didn't start until the 5th century; not after Christ.
---Heather on 10/4/05

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Elder, Baptist are widely reconized as protestent, even thou they were not part of the original Reformation. Your statement was more confusing than helpful.
---Ulrika on 10/4/05

Elder ... to use your argument, all churches are baptist, at least those who practice baptism ... and that includes the RCC. But Baptist nowadays means the denomination which says infant baptism is wrong and has only believers baptism.
I don't see how John can have founded the Baptist Church ... fiestly baptism was a practice long before him, aand secondly he died before any church was set up, even before Christ died
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/4/05

Actually, Ulrika, come to think of it, I've never seen anything anywhere giving dates or approximate dates on when any of the subdivisions started. What I know about Protestantism and anything that isn't Catholic being Protestantism comes from History books.
---Heather on 10/4/05

Emcee your statement is another twist and/or spin from the RCC. It is better to say one guy wanted a divorce and started all of this than to say we were caught in 95 different lies about Bible Doctrine. It was the Word that revealed the lies not Luther.
---Elder on 10/4/05

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What we fail to realize is it's not what we are in the faith that determines our "flavor" but what we do.
John was not called a Baptist because he had joined an organization but because of what he was doing.
He was preaching repentance and baptizing those who accepted the message and the Saviour.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/4/05

Cond #2-->
When anyone tells their denomination the affiliation tells of their beliefs and practices. Do we realize that Non-denominational is a denomination? It is like Aspirin.
It order to be an aspirin there must be certain ingredients in the tablet. It is what is inside the tablet that makes it an aspirin not the label on the bottle
---Elder on 10/4/05

Alan it is the RCC that called the departers "Protestant" meaning protesters. It was the lies of the RCC that caused Luther to nail his 95 thesis to the door of the church and claim "The Just shall live by Faith." Every person affected was in the RCC at that time and were Catholic. The ones that left the RCC were protesting so all of the protesters or Protestants were RCC at that time.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 10/4/05

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