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Separation Of Church And State

Are any of you aware that the words, "separation of church and state" is not in our Constitution? Can you guess where that phrase cane from? The ACLU, atheists, and other such groups, including our Legislative Branch of Government use that phrase.

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 ---Darlene on 10/6/05
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NurseRobert, why don't I stop eating because after all my food might be poisonous? Many die of food poisoning every year. As Nurses, you and I know that.
Why don't I stop driving a car, so I won't get into a accidents?
Wait, why don't I stay home, because I might get hit by a bus?

I'm not stupid.
I am Catholic because the RCC belongs to ME!

No one is exempt from the law including Obama. He isn't the king of the United States.
So, are you saying because some Priests raped some children, Obama has the right to take away my rights?? That sounds ridiculous.
The problem with you Liberals is you all think everyone is stupid.
Not everyone is STUPID as you hope.
---Nikki on 6/7/13


You can gripe and complain all you want. You don't get to make the rules..
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13


I never said I did. The founders made the rules. The 1st amendment is clear. Any law regarding religion or prohibiting it's free exercise is unconstitutional. Plain and simple. No amount of laws or rulings will ever change that unless congress actually amends the constitution to state otherwise. YOUR problem is that you think unconstitutional laws, policies, and judges' rulings have precedence over the constitution, and that's not how it works. YOU don't get to make the laws, neither do judges, and even law-makers are limited to laws that are allowed by the constitution. And laws regarding religion are NOT allowed.
---Jed on 6/7/13


Jed, you know very well that the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of what is and is not Constitutional.

You can gripe and complain all you want. You don't get to make the rules..
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13


You do not have unfettered right to express your religious beliefs in a public setting.
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13


According to the U.S. Constitution, I do. That is the ultimate authority in the United States. The constitution is clear, any laws that limit the free exercise of religion is unconstitutional. I don't care what laws or liberal rulings you dig up on the matter. The constitution is the final authority, not bills or laws.
---Jed on 6/6/13


Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe: SCOTUS ruled Public schools cannot allow student-initiated and student-led prayer to be broadcast over the public address system before high school football games. Adler v. Duval County School Board, the court rules that student lead prayer at graduation was not allowed.

However, the Equal Access Act requires public schools to treat all student-initiated groups equally, regardless of the religious, political, philosophical or other orientation of the groups, However, school personnel may not initiate, sponsor, promote, lead or participate in religious club meetings.

You do not have unfettered right to express your religious beliefs in a public setting.
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13




Jed, the issue ISN'T private citizens, its the governmental support of one religion. When the school sanctions Christian prayer, to the detriment of every other group, that violates the 1st Amendment. When a town sanctions a Christian function, to the detriment of other groups, that's a violation of the 1st Amendment.
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13


No one is "sanctioning" anything. No laws are being made forcing anyone to participate or join in. You have a student and a governor who are U.S. citizens freely expressing their faith publicly. The 1st amendment protects all individual's (including public figures) freedom of religion and freedom of speech. To tell them they can't do this IS a violation of the 1st Amendment.
---Jed on 6/6/13


Jed, the issue ISN'T private citizens, its the governmental support of one religion. When the school sanctions Christian prayer, to the detriment of every other group, that violates the 1st Amendment. When a town sanctions a Christian function, to the detriment of other groups, that's a violation of the 1st Amendment.

Nikki, that is one of the most ridiculous statements you have made yet. The judge who did that was a conservative, church-going Christian, not a liberal. How can you support a church that protects its pedophile priests? How can any Christian? And since when is the Catholic Church exempt from the law?
---NurseRobert on 6/6/13


It doesn't stop ME - as a private citizen - from stopping you proselytizing on my property.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13


Okay, I'll buy that. Yes, if I'm sitting in your living room visiting with your family, you have a right to ask that I not teach them my religion.

What does a student body president praying at a football game or a governor asking citizens to join him in prayer for disaster victims or a group of school kids gathering for prayer around the flagpole have anything to do with your private property? Because these are all things that have inspired law suites from God-hating liberals. Perhaps if you don't want exposed to other people's religious views, you should stay inside.
---Jed on 6/6/13


Dear Nurse Roberts.

I agree with many of your points. Too many Christians want the goverment to help them spread their belief. But all relgions need to be equal in the sight of the law. There are some Atheists groups that want freedom from relgion so as to take away the rights of relgious people. But they are a small group.

Francis Marcussen book is out of date and made many assumptions that have proven false.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/6/13


Prohibiting people from exercising their religion in ANY VENUE is a violation of the constitution.
---Jed on 6/5/13

No, its not. The amendments to the Constitution prevent the GOVERNMENT from establishing a religion or keeping you from expressing yours. It doesn't stop ME - as a private citizen - from stopping you proselytizing on my property.

It prevents the Government from condoning one religion over another. (Estate of Thornton v. Caldor (1985), Larson v. Valente (1982), Williams v. Lara (2000) and on and on.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13




---NurseRobert on 6/5/13
Actually it was BEFORE ELlen White


Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
---francis on 6/6/13


Nikki, tell us, how did the government go "after" the Catholic Church? It wouldn't have to do the the Church covering up it's pedophilia--NurseRobert on 6/5/13

Liberals don't mind pedophiles as long as they are not Priests. The sick liberals want to rape them themselves. They give 60 days sentences for child rape in Vermont. That's why all the pedophiles are moving to Vermont. They know no punishment for raping children.

As for going after the Catholic Church: Where you asleep, or just watching MSNBC?
When you tell a Church they have to pay for birth control, or get fined that attacking the Church.
The Catholics are not paying for someone's birth control pills. They can go to Planned parenthood for those pills
---Nikki on 6/6/13


//
---jerry6593 on 6/5/13

I take it you have not yet read " National Sunday law" by JAN MARCUSSEN

---francis on 6/5/13//


What makes you say that, Francis? Yes, I have read it and have even met the author.

I take it that you have not read the Bible, where it says "Thou shalt not covet", since you advocate class envy. It makes one wonder if you've indeed met the Author.



---jerry6593 on 6/6/13


It was written to prevent the government from pushing one form of religion over another.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13

AND to guarantee the right of all citizens to freely exercising their own religion. You keep leaving that part out, sheesh. A governor asking the country to pray for drought victims or a student body president praying at a football game in no way creates a law establishing religion. However, telling them they CAN'T do that DOES, and it also prohibits their free exercise of their religion.
---Jed on 6/5/13


Continued...

Christians like you love to play the victim and scream discrimination when the courts rule that they are NOT allowed to push their particular brand of religion through government sponsored events. That, however, is the law of the land.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13


No that is not the law of the land. That's actually the opposite of what the first amendment says. According to the constitution NO one can be prevented from exercising their religion, no exceptions. Prohibiting people from exercising their religion in ANY VENUE is a violation of the constitution. As long as Congress is not making laws establishing a national religion, anyone can voice their religion whenever they want.
---Jed on 6/5/13


-Jed on 6/5/13

No one is saying the 1st Amendment is to keep you from hearing others religious belief. It was written to prevent the government from pushing one form of religion over another. Christians like you love to play the victim and scream discrimination when the courts rule that they are NOT allowed to push their particular brand of religion through government sponsored events. That, however, is the law of the land.

Lets look at your statement and give us some examples when Christians were sued or jailed for doing so.

Francis - The national Sunday law is a conspiracy theory that has been around since Ellen White's time. It was a good work of fiction.
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13


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---jerry6593 on 6/5/13

I take it you have not yet read " National Sunday law" by JAN MARCUSSEN
---francis on 6/5/13


Nurse Roberts,

Firstly, I believe in every individuals right to publicly practice their religion, no matter what they are. Hindus, Buddhist, and Witches ARE ALREADY allowed to do their displays in public. Only Christians are sued and jailed when they publicly express their religious beliefs. Secondly, I don't want religion taught in schools or government either, I'm talking about individuals expressing openly in public. Thirdly, that is not what the first amendment is for. It is not meant to assure that you wont be exposed to other people's religions, it is meant to prevent people like you from trying to shut them up. Its called the freedom OF religion, not the freedom FROM religion. You have it backwards.
---Jed on 6/5/13


Jed. So you would be ok with a Hindu giving the opening prayer? Or a Buddist? Or a wiccan? Or a SDA? You would be the first one screaming about it. You only want freedom of religion if it pertains to YOUR religion. I don't want any religion taught in my schools or my government. That's why they wrote the 1st amendment.

Nikki, tell us, how did the government go "after" the Catholic Church? It wouldn't have to do the the Church covering up it's pedophilia, would it?

Jerry, can't admit you misspoke or can't read? Call me what you will, I expect it from you, but in the end, I don't want my Government to tell me how to worship. In the country, the Government has no business supporting one religion over the other..
---NurseRobert on 6/5/13


Jed, you are correct. This government today is trying to define what a religion, so they can abuse them as they see fit.

The reason the Government went after the Catholic Church is because they know if they knock down the largest religion in United States, every other religion will be easy to abuse.
---Nikki on 6/5/13


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Jed: You would think that Nurse Robert is an atheist, rather than a Christian by the way he defends a secular humanist government. Of course atheism is the official religion of Communism, and leftist liberals in the US are actually closet Communists.

You would think that the mention of God in our Declaration of Independence, on our coins, and on our government buildings in Washington would be enough for them - but it's not.


---jerry6593 on 6/5/13


I am a Christian a member of the Seventh day Adventist church. So I am no atheist.

The term Separation of church and state comes from Thomas Jefferson which he wrote in a number of papers. Please read some actual history.

My problem with atheists is that want to restrict the freedom of religious people. Making it against the law for us to take part in public forums or proclaim our beliefs.

My problem with many Christians is they want the Government to do the work the church is supposed to be doing. Christians are to be proclaiming the Gospel with our voices and money. Not demanding that the taxpayer do it.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/13


You liberals always try to make the amendment out to restrict religious expression
---Jed on 6/4/13

Hogwash.....

Nothing is stopping you from worshiping whatever religion you want. It stops the government from pushing a particular religion on people. You wingers forget that people have a right NOT to have a religion if that's what you want

ECHO
---francis on 6/5/13


You wingers forget that people have a right NOT to have a religion if that's what you want.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/13


Only as it pertains to government. People do not have the right to NOT be exposed to other citizens' religious expressions. When you liberals try to prevent ordinary citizens from holding open prayer at school football games, that is a direct violation of the first amendment because the prayer is a free expression by free CITIZENS. It is not the government doing the praying.
---Jed on 6/5/13


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You liberals always try to make the amendment out to restrict religious expression
---Jed on 6/4/13

Hogwash.....

Nothing is stopping you from worshiping whatever religion you want. It stops the government from pushing a particular religion on people. You wingers forget that people have a right NOT to have a religion if that's what you want.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/13


God is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights either. The mention of religious in the 1st amendment prohibits the goverment from establishing a religion.
---NurseRobert on 6/4/13


And it also prohibits the government from limiting the free exercise of religion. The part of that amendment you liberals always like to leave out. That amendment is not about keeping religion out, it is about protecting the right to be religious, however you see fit. You liberals always try to make the amendment out to restrict religious expression instead of promoting religious expression which is actually what it does.
---Jed on 6/4/13


Jerry, have you actually read these documents? The line you quoted is from the Declaration of Independence, NOT the Constitution or the Bill of rights, which is what I told Heather.

While God is not mention in the Constitution, the mention of religion is in Article VI, Para 3 that states NO religious test shall be required as qualification to public office.

God is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights either. The mention of religious in the 1st amendment prohibits the goverment from establishing a religion.

Surely you know this, but then again, maybe not..
---NurseRobert on 6/4/13


---Jed on 6/4/13
well stated opinion
---francis on 6/4/13


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Here is the thing: It is impossible to ever remove religious beliefs from government. Because every law that has ever been or ever will be created is based on somebody's view of right and wrong, which is in and of itself, a religious belief. The absence of an established main-stream religion does not mean the absence of religion. Every person alive that is able to make a moral judgement within themselves has a religion, even if it is a religion of only one person. Because every person has their own set of personal beliefs, which is all a religion is. Humanism and atheism are religious beliefs too. Your religion might be atheism, or humanism, or liberalism, or conservatism, or socialism, or capitalism, or communism.
---Jed on 6/4/13


Israel was never a church and state combined

Judah ran the state
Levi ran the church

The kings and the priest were not one and the same, each had different function

On occasions when church and state came together in Israel is was disaster:
King Saul makes his own sacrifice
King Uzziah makes his own sacrifice
Jezebel!!
---francis on 6/4/13


Nursey: "Heather, you need to go back and read the Consitituion [sic] and the Bill of Rights. Not once is God mentioned in either document."

So do you!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Maybe you hadn't heard, but God is our CREATOR.



---jerry6593 on 6/4/13


We should remember that when God set up Israel (the nation) the church and the state were one.

So at one time in the past, God himself wanted the (I will call it church, though then it was just the Israelite temple) to be one with the state
---Peter9556 on 6/3/13


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Might not a state-sponsored church be good idea?
---Love.wins on 6/2/13


No, that would be a terrible idea. That is what we have coming out of Washington DC right now. Forced conversion to the church of liberalism or else!
---Jed on 6/3/13


Y'all are right, it's a bad idea.
---Love.wins on 6/3/13


Might not a state-sponsored church be good idea?
---Love.wins on 6/2/1

What church would that be? Baptist? Catholic? Hindu? Muslim? SDA? JW??
---NurseRobert on 6/3/13


Might not a state-sponsored church be good idea?
---Love.wins on 6/2/13
Based on the teaching on which denomination, or which combination of denominations?

And what happens if people choose not to follow the state sponsored church?

Will the state sponsored church have to follow the non discriminatory laws of the state?

Will the state decide who the clergy will be?
---francis on 6/3/13


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Might not a state-sponsored church be good idea?
---Love.wins on 6/2/13


the term was used by Thomas Jeff. in a letter to the anabaptists of CT. (i think ct). they were concerned bout a national religion as in england. Jefferson said there is a separation, guaranteeing no national religion.
---r.w. on 5/5/07


There is no guarantee that only Christians will be elected to Congress. Sometimes evil people are elected by mistake. When you realize this. You stand up for God and stop them! Their isnt a thing Congress can do about it. They have no power by the Constitution to declare your religion is wrong! God keeps is church separate from the government. So his church people can stand up to bad politicians that talked like a Christian, but act like the Devil.
---Jeremy on 9/16/06


Eloy, The 1st Amendment was written to prevent the Government from establishing a religion. You can exercise your religion as you see fit, but you do not have the right to push your beliefs on others.
---NurseRobert on 9/8/06


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Eloy, you said "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Just who are "your people?"
---NurseRobert on 9/8/06


Heather, you need to go back and read the Consitituion and the Bill of Rights. Not once is God mentioned in either document. The only mention of religion in either document is the First Amendment that prevents any "law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise."
---NurseRobert on 9/7/06


My people perish for lack of knowledge."Freedom of religion" means 'freedom to express' ones religion without any government prohibition or interference, but man twisted this into an opposite lie to mean "Freedom from religion" which is 'total absence of' any religion.The constitution reads, The government will make no law establishing any one religion, nor make any law prohibiting the free excercise of any religion. So the government is breaking the constitution.
---Eloy on 9/7/06


term Church and state not in Constitution. it is VERY constitutional, and when a nation doesnt put Christians in office-the nation you end up with will be like the u.s. is now----unGodly
---r.w. on 9/6/06


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is that right tim? any religion. founders said to put CHRISTIANS in office, because worldly men will lie cheat steal.
---r.w. on 9/6/06


It's still an important principle - known elsewhere as sphere sovereignty. Christians should be committed to separation of church and state, but just as committed to the integration of religion in politics. Big difference in those two concepts.
---Tim on 8/24/06


thomas jeffersons letter to concerned anabaptists
---r.w. on 8/17/06


Are any of you aware that the words, "Air Force" are not in our Constitution? Can you guess where that phrase came from?
---Friday_Slice on 1/4/06


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The concept of seperation of church and state came from writing by Thomas Jefferson. Sep. of Church and State is actually unconstitinal and the original intent was to protect the church from the gov'r not the other way around. The only thing in the constitution that says any thing remotely close is that the gov'r can not create a national church.
---Kaleo on 10/14/05


Daniel-10/06/05-correct! All of you had very intelligent answers/ know history/our country was founded by Godly Christians. I've been signing petitions a while. We can't keep giving up our God-given rights & America over to these godless minorities wantng God erased from everything including scripture from walls of important historical buildings in D.C.! I'll give their websites if you ask. The total answer.. "The Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx!
---Darlene on 10/11/05


The 1st place I found this "separation" is in Mat.22:21. Also the majority of all countries of this world have a "religion" sponsored by the government. Ours is therefore, unique. We have a nation free from required affiliation with a specific religion. Unfortunately as noted previously, our free nation is moving quickly toward anti-religion rather than freedom of. Note the holidays acceptable; witches/goblin day, Santa Day, bunny egg day, etc.
---mike_fl on 10/10/05


1st off, this is an American term. 2nd has to do with none believers attempt to remove any form of religion from anything to do with the government. America was built on Christian morals, now the people without morals don't want to hear it. The forcing of their views, the way I see it. It is like schools teaching evolusion to our kids, and not teaching creation. Go figure!
---geraa7578 on 10/10/05


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Yes I agree it's time we spoke up, we can email our congressman and senators, they do read their emails. there is a web site that will send your email on all contraversal subjects, all you have to do is click send.
if you want to get on that site, let me know.
ofcourse our main weapon is prayer.
wayne5363.
---wayne on 10/9/05


My question is how can something so simple be so twisted around ... like separation of church and state? It's nowhere in the Constitution, but certain people word it to mean what they want it to. No one will stand up and correct these people. It's time we did.
---Nellah on 10/9/05


I have a copy of the Constitution and the first amendment simply means that the government cannot come in and establish or run or interfere with the church. How in the world it has become so misconstrued. Sorta like people changing the Bible to suit their lives. If you haven't read the Constitution, do so.
---Nellah on 10/8/05


Emcee ... I'm not sure what your question is.

In the UK, there is no seperation between the Church of England and the State. Ever since the reformation, (escept during a short period when there was no monarch) the monarch has been head of the CofE
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/8/05


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This was recognition that the state should deal with civility and the church should deal with morality--ones relationship to God. Today it is being made to mean more and more that if I believe in God, then I cannot express that belief. What happened to equal protection? In response to those who want to ban God from the public eye, we must beware that we do not cross over and seek to enforce religion on others. The power of faith and morality is found in God.
---Wayne_87 on 10/8/05


It was not about removing religious principles, expressions of faith, belief, etc. from civic leaders, but that there should not be required "belief" or "faith" in order to hold civil office; nor should the state support or favor one religious belief (or none at all) over another. Separation of church and state does not mean separation of righteousness, faith, or religious principles from people in the state.
---Wayne_87 on 10/8/05


In early America, there was no separation of church and state; different colonies had different churches supported by the state. Rhode Island was founded on the principle that the state should deal with civil issues and not favor one religion over another. Likewise the churches should not control the state, but should preach the gospel--be ye reconciled to God.
---Wayne_87 on 10/8/05


In Rosevelts farewell address, they took out the last sentence "so help us God" so whats next? I agree with the one that said the supreme cour needs to amend some things.
Madison, I might have misread your comment, sorry.
---wayne on 10/7/05


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If my memory serves me correct I believe that phrase was originally used in English History during the reformation when the Divine right of Kings was declared: Alan of Uk, what say you sir,any comments.
---Emcee on 10/7/05


Daniel: All schools should allow students to read the Bible during noninstructional time. That is the law. If a school interferes, then the student's parents must take the matter up with the school board and/or courts.

I teach in a public school and have students that are all faiths, including Muslims and Hindus.
---Madison on 10/7/05


[Pt.2]... do not understand our beliefs, since we cannot expect 'the world' to have the mind of God in discerning such things. The original "separation concept" is good, but not the perverted application of it some have turned it into today. But if we don't strive to point that out to the 'spiritually blind', we only have ourselves to blame.--Daniel(not 10/6/05).
---Daniel on 10/7/05


[Pt.1]Madison: Thank you, I'm really glad that *some* public schools keep a level-head about this; it's ashame that's usually only when they have Christian leadership or are under majority or legal pressure to do so. I def. agree we shouldn't have any 'state-run' churches like some other countries though! Re:the "separation" phrase, what's wrong today is that many atheists try using that to remove all Christian thought from society. We need to speak-up in LOVE when schools and the GOV... [CONT.]
---Daniel on 10/7/05


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Daniel: Kids can take a Bible to school and read it during noninstructional time. My daughter held Bible studies during her lunch in elementary school.

Wayne: The original question was "Can you guess where that phrase came from?" I answered it. Besides, I believe in the first amendment of the Constitution and do not want government deciding what church I can attend.
---Madison on 10/7/05


Daniel;
Although some schools have halloween activities ,the public school my 2 chilren go to banned it, the school dirstict only have 2 holiday parites yearly;christmas& valentines. So God is watching that school;but God is also protecting others that schools still decided to have halloween
---candice on 10/7/05


Very few people ever think about that, but you're right. This country was created based on Christian principles. The United States constitution as well as most (if not all) state constitutions mention God and Christianity over and over again (so did the Declaration of Independence) but the ACLU (which once served a purpose but no longer) has caused so much controversy they've succeeded in making that fact an obscure one. In that respect the ACLU has accomplished part of its mission and that's sad.
---Heather on 10/7/05


Daniel ('communist manifesto'): I'm not a parent so don't know, but are you saying that in many (all?) public schools in America a student can't even bring his/her Bible to school with them to read during lunch or on a bus ride? I'm sure some Christian lawyers would deal/have already dealt with that, if that's the case!
---Daniel on 10/7/05


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Madison, with all the good replys on here from everyone, how come you have to play the devil's advocate. Go back and read them.
---wayne on 10/7/05


though not the exact phrase, it's what people believe the First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) means: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Traditionally, this has been interpreted as the prohibition of the establishment of a national religion by Congress or the preference of one religion over another.
---Daniel on 10/7/05


The writers of the Constitution and Declaration of Independance wanted no state-owned church. Maryland followed the teaching of the Catholic Church. State churches are in many European countries ie England-Anglican, Sweden-Lutheran, Germany -Lutheran and Catholic, Italy and Spain-Catholic. Taxes support the churches(usually empty). This has evolved in the U.S. into the no mention of prayer, God, statute of religious symbols, Jesus, or Salvation ..allowed.
This needs to be rectified soon.
---chuck on 10/7/05


Jefferson did write a letter to a specific Baptist group and the Wall Of Separation phrase has been taken grossly out of original context of the letter. Remember that Jefferson attended the largest church service in Washington DC when he was President. It is held in the US Capital Building in the House Chambers. Jefferson was dissatisfied with the of music in the service and had the US Marine Band play music for the service. Our founding fathers supported religion much more than you think.
---Phil_the_Elder on 10/6/05


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As a Southern Baptist I was taught that it is a principle of the Baptist denomination. Most Baptist had left a country where there was church and state joined - the UK. They wanted no part of it.
---randy on 10/6/05


You're right, but there may be something in the Bill of Rights that may refer to that. The Government does not run the church and the church does not run the Government though the laws are formed the same way. The bible warns against following the government of man.
---gregg8944 on 10/6/05


The term "separation of church and state" is in the communist manifesto. Imagine that when that seems to be all that we hear. Prayer, Bibles and Christian holidays are not allowed in the public school, but Halloween, and gangs are there. It is a sad day for a child to have to go through a metal detector to go to school, but that is the day we live in. What we need is for the state to let the church be the church. We know that is the only answer for America.
---Daniel on 10/6/05


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