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Should We Obey The Whole Bible

If we are still bound by the old covenant law, then why don't we keep these aspects of it?

Deut.23:1,2
Deut.23:24,25
Deut.22:8-12
Deut.21:15 (two wives?)
Deut.21:18-21

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 ---Esther on 10/10/05
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Hebrews chapter 8 verses 7 through 10
---willa8985 on 4/1/07


Heather - please give the scriptural reference for the difference between the lowercase & capital 'S'.
There is not one Bible scripture that changes the Sabbath from one day to another. Jesus kept the Sabbath perfectly, even in death. At no time did He transfer the sanctity to Sunday upon his resurrection... that was changed by Constantine and supported by the RCC as their mark of ecclesiastical power, and most people never knew what hit them.
---casey on 10/21/05


Out of curiosity, where does it state what day of the week God started His creation on? He could have started it on a Wed.by our calendar, then rested on Tues, or started on Sat, and rested on Fri. Who exactly knows? Nobody was there then.
---Ann5758 on 10/14/05


Actually, there are several "sabbaths" mentioned in the Bible (both O.T. and N.T.). The responses pointing out that Sunday isn't the last day of the week and God rested on the 7th day when He created the world is true (this is what 7th Day Adventists recognize and follow). However, the Bible says clearly that Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week (Sunday) which is the "Sabbath" (the difference being the capital s)and this is why Sunday is the recognized day of worship.
---Heather on 10/14/05


Emcee, No, the Sabbath is the last day of the week. God rested on the seventh (last) day of the week. Sunday is the first. Look at your calender. Jesus died on Friday, the Jews did not want him on the cross on the Sabbath, so they pierced his side and bood and water ran out. They were making sure he was dead. Jesus rose one the first day of the week, three days later. Like the moderator said, we could not obey all the Sabbath laws.
---Ulrika on 10/14/05




Ulrika : We are splitting hairs sat & or sun can be taken as the Sabbath its a day we set aside to worship & honour Almighty God, if you can show in the Bible where it says sat or sun, I shall agree.Over the span of 2000 years calendars have changed.we have already discussed this subject before to no avail.
---Emcee on 10/13/05


Sunday is not the Sabbath (last day of the week). Sunday is the first day of week, our day of worship.
---Ulrika on 10/13/05


Eloy: What is it you disagree with.?you only cite the sabbath & working on this day--Its not against the law in this age & date to work on the sabbath But you are required to keep it holy by, first,is setting it aside & honouring it as Gods day, we go to church. WHAT ARE THE OTHER COMMANDMENTS HE HAS GIVEN US scripturally name a few in the new testament, besides 'love your neighbour as yourself' which we do-& is incidentally in the first command of God.
---Emcee on 10/13/05


No, we are not bound by the OT law. Gal. 3:24,25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Hebrews 10:16,17 Romans 3:19-31 Romans 6:14--18 We go by all but one of the 10 commandments. Matthew 5:17-48 Matthew 22:36-40 But we do not keep the sabbath. Jesus is our rest (sabbath) Hebrews 4:1-11 Matthew 12:8 Colossians 2:16
---Ulrika on 10/12/05


Emcee, i do not agree. Christ taught that it is allowable to work on the sabbath, and he has given us many new commandments to obey, one most important one of which is to obey his commandments instead of the O.T. commandments.

Moderator - The Sabbath commandment is the only one of the Ten Commandments that there is debate if it is part of the Moral Law of God, however most Christians believe the principle is still to set aside one day for God. Which of Christ's commandments Eloy contradict or outdate the other 9 commandments? Please show scriptures.
---Eloy on 10/12/05




Bruce, i see.
---Eloy on 10/12/05


One core issue not discussed is Holyness. Your freedom in Christ is not to get a tattoo. It is to "come out from among them and be separate" We have been purchased with precious blood. And the purchaser taught us to live in the world but to not partake of the things that make the world the world like language, fadish styles, clubs, etc. It is not legalism, its holyness for his bloods sake!

Moderator - I agree that the whole point is "come out from among them and be separate" which is the bottomline as Christians. Thanks for the comments.
---Ron_&_Melissa on 10/11/05


Yes Madison, it does. The only reason one would not eat meat sacrificed to idols is if it put a stumblingblock in front of the one who sacrificed it and told you that he did it. To eat it because you have knowledge that an idol is nothing but God is one would be to defile the weak conscience of the one who offered it. The whole of 1 Cor.8 is awesome in explaining how love toward our fellow man works.
---Linda_Smith on 10/11/05


I am not sure if this fits into this discussion, BUT, I am curious if anyone can extrapolate on the passage where Paul says it is okay to eat meat that was sacrificed to idols. Does any of that apply in this arena?
---Madison on 10/11/05


I also agree that the law disqualifies but Jesus qualifies. The ministry of the letter is unto condemnation but the ministry of the Spirit gives life.
---Esther on 10/11/05


I agree that Jesus fulfilled the law and what we have now as born again believers exceeds the old.

Moderator - I agree with that.
---Esther on 10/11/05


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"Moderator - The Moral Laws never changed. You are confusing the Moral laws with the Civil and Ceremonial laws in all of your posts which may be why you are confused in the tattoo blog whether Christians should practice witchcraft and pagan rituals."

Again, if anyone could have kept the moral law, there would have been no need for the ceremonial, sacrificial, or civil law. That is why the Word tells us to trust Christ, not ourselves.

Moderator - Therefore, you agree God's moral laws never change?
---Esther on 10/11/05


This discussion reminds me of the circular arguments of the OSAS.

To me the "Moral Code" is the 10 commandments and the 10 Commandments can be found in the NT. Here are only one reference for each while many others could be provided.

1. Matt 22:37
2.I Cor 10:14
3. 1 Tim 6:20
4. Acts 20:7
5. Eph 6:1
6. Rev 21:8
7. 1 Cor 6:9
8. Eph 4:28
9. Rev 21:8
10. Heb 13:5

Not so with the Dietary, or Civil laws that compose the rest of the OT law.

Moderator - Exactly.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


Circumcision's in the Bible (the O.T.).
---Heather on 10/11/05


I am not in the least bit confused as to whether Christians should practice witchcraft or pagan rituals.

Just a cutting the flesh (circumcision) can be done with out being a pagan ritual, so can a tattoo with out being in any way related to paganism or witchcraft.

Titus 1:15, "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."

Moderator - Again please study the origin and practice of tattoos.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


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And you keep insisting that tattoos belong in the "moral law" with out any proof or justification.

Moderator - My understanding is anything that is pagan by defintion breaks the moral laws in some way. Are you saying that we can call ourselves Christians and then follow the way of the world and pagan practices? If so we will have to agree to disagree because there hundreds of scriptures that state the opposite.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


Sounds like we are in agreement that the Moral Law never changed?
---Moderator on 10/11/05


PART ONE:
Moderator,
Would you wear clothing made of a blend of fabrics? v. 19
Would you cross breed cattle? v.19
Do you advocate scourging for adultery? V. 20 (Better re-read John 8 before you answer that one.)
Do you cut the hair on the sides of your head? or trim your beard (if you had one)?v.27
Would you light a fire on the Sabbath? Ex 35:3
etc.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


PART TWO:
If it is a matter of LAW, just how is it you justify which law to observe and which one to ignore?
Either we are bound by them all or none at all.
We are not talking about common sense things here but LAW - thou shalt not do this or that of which tattoos are only one.
Now, if you want to talk about principles, that is another matter altogether. For example, my understanding
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


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PART THREE:
of the principle behind the instruction not to wear a blend of fibers was a reminder to the Jew not to mix with the world. The instruction not to cut the corners of the field or not to clean up all the harvest from the field dealt with meeting the needs of the poor. In some cases the instructions probably related to health matters. The order not to eat pork for example, yet we see that rescinded specifically in the NT.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


PART FOUR:
What about tattoos? The heathen used tattoos and cuttings as a part of their religious ceremony and rituals. The Jew was told to leave these things out of their religious life. AND YET, speaking of cutting, they were told they MUST mutilate their male children as a sign of their covenant!
If someone today, wants to use tattoos as a part of a religious ceremony or ritual, I would
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


PART FIVE:
agree wholeheartedly that that is strictly against the principle laid down in the law and as such wrong. This does not speak to tattoos used for other reasons (as incomprehensible as it may be to some of us.)
With respect to cutting, Circumcision is now forbidden AS AN INSTUMENT OF RELIGION yet Paul had Timothy circumcised so as to not be an offense to the Jewish people that he was going to minister to.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


Are you Jewish and bound by the law or are you a Christian bound to Christ? If bound to Christ, then why don't you share what Jesus did (took the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and nailed them to His cross) instead of demanding that people keep a law that disqualifies everybody?

Moderator - The Moral Laws never changed. You are confusing the Moral laws with the Civil and Ceremonial laws in all of your posts which may be why you are confused in the tattoo blog whether Christians should practice witchcraft and pagan rituals.
---Esther on 10/11/05


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5. Obey the law of your land.

Again, if the law is God's righteousness expressed to His people (which was the Jewish nation then but is the chosen generation of Christ now) and He doesn't change, then we can disobey the law of the land by keeping that OT law, despite what the New Covenant says. Either the old is in force or the new is. Can't be both because the Word clearly tells us that the old has passed away.

Moderator - The Moral Law never changes whether NT or OT.
---Esther on 10/11/05


2. That was their national law. Obey your national law. National laws change. God doesn't change. 3. Are you a farmer or house builder in the Jewish nation? I am a housebuilder in the kingdom of God, the spiritual fulfillment of the shadow. 4. Christians don't have 2 wives.
This isn't dealing with Christians. This is dealing with the Jewish nation, remember?

Moderator - Good.
---Esther on 10/11/05


1. Applies to the Jewish temple can't be practiced because their is no temple.

We are the temple. What was natural has become spiritual. The congregation of the Lord is the house of the Lord that we are. Doesn't matter whether it is a natural or spiritual congregation; by that law, the fatherless (either natural or spiritual) is out.

Moderator - Exactly, we are the temple.
---Esther on 10/11/05


So, all of the sudden those laws pertain to the natural nation of the Jews and not to us Gentiles? In that case, we were never under the law to begin with, only the Jews were.

No. I don't tithe. I purpose in my heart to give and I give cheerfully.

Moderator - Good :)
---Esther on 10/11/05


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Moderator ... I am interested in what you have said here about the 10 Commandments being the laws we have to obey.
In view of that, why do you say elsewhere that we are prohibited from tattoos, because of the Leviticus rules?

Moderator - Please refer to the comments already made below. In addition, I would encourage everyone to read the pagan origins and practices of tattoos and please explain how a Christian could participate? Not one person here has researched and then answered this question. If you would do so, your questions would be answered.
---alan8869_of_UK on 10/11/05


Eloy & Bruce :The only OT law we are called to obey are the 10 Comandments given by the Father;The son Jesus came to further strengthen that rule By abolishing the old Covenant of traditions & other rules& opened to us the gates of heaven which had been shut by mans sinful nature. By his death on the cross the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom Matt 15--V37-38
---Emcee on 10/11/05


We are not bound by the old covenant law, because what was accomplished at the cross when Christ died and rose again. Try reading in Romans.
---jerry on 10/11/05


Now to help move this in the right direction. The Jews had three different groups of Laws which were the moral law, the ceremonial law, and the civil law. Christians are bound by the moral law as the moral law is for all IE Ten Commandments. The moral law, that which represents Gods own moral character, is summarized in the Ten Commandments. These are forever binding, in both old and new covenants.
---Moderator on 10/11/05


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1. Applies to the Jewish temple can't be practiced because their is no temple.
2. That was their national law. Obey your national law. National laws change.
3. Are you a farmer or house builder in the Jewish nation?
4. Christians don't have 2 wives.
5. Obey the law of your land.

Esther do you tithe?
---Moderator on 10/11/05


Eloy,
I meant that those who hold we are bound to the OT law do not answer to defend their position.
---Bruce5656 on 10/11/05


We are not bound by the O.T. and Bruce, i have already answered this before which was asked in similar blogs, as: "What Do We Obey In The Bible" & "Christians Only Follow the N.T."
---Eloy on 10/11/05


Good question. The world would undoubtably be a better place if these laws were still obeyed.
---jerry6593 on 10/11/05


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Esther,
Those are difficult points for those who believe we are bound by all aspects of the OT law. In fact, I have asked this several times before here and not recieved an answer.
---Bruce5656 on 10/10/05


Deuteronomy 21:15 gives rules that apply to a man who already has two wives. Where does it say he should have had two wives in the first place though? God's original plan was man and wife not man and wives. Second and subsequent wives seem to create problems everywhere we read of them in the bible just as any other aspect of moving away from God's best creates problems.
---M.P. on 10/10/05


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