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Dead Speak To The Living

Is there any reference in the bible about the spirit of dead persons speaking to the living? Or is this satanic?

Moderator - Yes, it is satanic; God forbids it.

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 ---norma on 10/16/05
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It is IMPOSSBLE for the dead to speak to the living. The dead know nothing! Samuel did not speak to Saul. It was a demon/spirit. Saul's visit cost him his kingship!
---Pierre 11/20/07

1 Chron 10:13-14 (The Message)

Saul died in disobedience, disobedient to God. He didn't obey God's words. Instead of praying, he went to a witch to seek guidance. Because he didn't go to God for help, God took his life and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

1 Chron 10:13-14 (CEV)
13Saul died because he was unfaithful and disobeyed the LORD. He even asked advice from a woman who talked to spirits of the dead, 14instead of asking the LORD. So the LORD had Saul killed and gave his kingdom to David, the son of Jesse
---Gina7 on 7/25/09


If I were hearing dead people, I'd get psychological help FAST. Normal people shouldn't be hearing ghosts or demons: it is a sign that something is mentally wrong.

But even so, that doesn't mean we can't think about our beloved deceased and wonder what they would think we should do. Like thinking about what our ancestors (parents, grandparents, etc.) would have advised us to do in certain situations. That's using our memories and reason, not spiritual communication, and is perfectly okay.
---Nancy on 11/25/07


It is IMPOSSBLE for the dead to speak to the living. The dead know nothing! Samuel did not speak to Saul. It was a demon/spirit. Saul's visit cost him his kingship!
---Pierre on 11/20/07


There is a biblical reference of Samuel speaking to Saul after his death. Although, I believe it's possible, as Christians,it is something we should not actively seek. This kind of activity would open the door to the occult and satanic activity.
---Marcia on 4/24/07


Moderator: Of course we should, first & foremost, always believe God (from Genesis-Revelation), That's what protects us from the devil's lies.

I appreciate you & all that you do @ CN. God bless....

Moderator - Thanks!
---Leon on 10/28/05




Pierre: You're welcome. :-) Please get & begin studying a bible that's an accurate translation (not a spurious paraphrase) of the originial Hebrew & Greek Bible manuscripts. It'll do you nothing but good.

God bless!
---Leon on 10/27/05


M.P. That's what it boils down to, i.e., everyone deciding for themselves. Hopefully, our decisions are rooted and grounded in accurate translations (not paraphrases) of Hebrew & Greek manuscripts of the Bible.

Yes, the Scripture actually says "Samuel". So, who're we to say otherwise? Should we believe the word of God or the varied extra-biblical opinions of people? No contest, God rules!

Moderator - The devil thinks he's god in the Bible, therefore we should believe the Word of God that the devil is god not the opinions of others. As you can see, that is faulty logic. As one studies scripture, they quickly learn that demons LIE.
---Leon on 10/27/05


Go back to the Old Testament and read what happened to Saul after he visited a woman who supposedly was able to foretell the future. You bet it's satanic to dabble with such things.
---taylor on 10/27/05


Leon: Appreciate your explanation!
---Pierre on 10/27/05


I hope that no-one thinks that I am favouring the occult in any shape or form. I most certainly am not. I simply wanted to point out what scripture says about 'Samuel'. It might have been an evil spirit impersonating him but scripture actually says Samuel. I leave it to everyone to decide for themselves. Scripture also tells us we must not (are not allowed to) contact the dead, it does not say that we are UNABLE to do so. Anyone trying to is sinning whether it were actually possible or not.

Moderator - I understand what you have asked and it was a good question. I truely believe this world is the abode of demons. Having seen demonic activity on others it is very easy to see how a demon can impersonate Samuel.
---M.P. on 10/27/05




Leon: My comments are ment as "evaluations" of others' entries not judgments of them as persons.
I do consider some of what you wrote as favoring the occult. It would not be so if God had really played the role you assign to Him, but I firmly believe that demoniac spirits were responsible for "Samuel's" appearence.
Other than that I did not catch which point I missed. Tell me, please!
---Pierre on 10/26/05


Pierre: No, I'm not the least bit surprised. I think you missed the point.

Did you say my thoughts, ideas...favor the occult? Nothing is further from the truth. I hope you're not resorting to being judgmental (Matt. 7:1-2; Lk. 6:37).
---Leon on 10/26/05


Moderator: At time Jesus met & talked with Moses...he was the God "man" (very God, 100% in the flesh man).
---Leon on 10/26/05


Leon: It seems to me that it should not be a surprise to you nor the MOD that Jesus spoke to Moses. Wasen't he the subject of a special resurrection? I believe he was.
"a lot of demon stuff": thoughts, ideas and constructs which favor the occult.
---Pierre on 10/26/05


Pierre: Thanks for the clarification regarding the CW paraphrased bible. What do you mean, "a lot of 'demon stuff'"? Moderator: Moses died (Deut. 34:5-7) & Jesus talked to him (Matthew 17:1-3).I respect your opinions & the opinions of the others here. Not surprisingly, there's a diversity of beliefs on the CN blog. :-) I agree, Bible passages & verses must be taken in context to the whole of Scripture in order for us to rightly divide & understanding God's word.

Moderator - In Matthew we are talking about Jesus. He can be with the living and the dead because He is God. However, we can't.
---Leon on 10/26/05


Moderator: Clearly, the point is the witch wasn't in control. God always is! Remember, Saul wanted a word from the Lord; but, God was silent (28:6). Ultimately, because of his unrepentance & continual disobedience, Saul got an audible reply in the form of a death sentence from God thru Samuel, i.e., Divine intervention. You know the saying: Be careful of what you ask for.

Moderator - I don't believe God spoke through Samuel, but instead that was a demon acting like Samuel. Scriptures support the view of demons in these types of activities and the scriptures don't support dead people talking to the living either in practice or advised. The context of the Bible has to be taken into consideration or this verse can be easily misunderstood.
---Leon on 10/25/05


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Leon: I mean to say that THE CLEAR WORD is not officially sanction as the churche's Bible anymore than the KJV or any others.

As for God bringing up a spirit to talk to Saul after not wanting to talk to him diectly, that's a lot of "demon stuff"!
---Pierre on 10/25/05


Moderator, the woman is not described and being a familiar spirit, but that she HAD a familiar spirit. I've always understood that to mean a medium (one who consults with spirits). The person she called up she recognised as Samuel and 'Samuel' or whoever it was was able to tell Saul something that had not yet happened v. 19. Do evil spirits see the future? This is not a disagreement, I want to know because this is something that has confused me for quite some time so I'd appreciate the input of others.

Moderator - Yes, she had a familiar spirit. Familiar spirits or demons have been around before mankind, therefore they would know all about Samuel, Saul and the enemy camps and can make very good guesses. There are no scriptures I know of that would indicate demons truely see the future versus having enough information to just make them appear that way. Whereas, God's spiritual gifts that He gives to His children such as Word of Wisdom, Word of Knowledge or Prophecy are the REAL thing.
---M.P. on 10/25/05


If the Clear Word paraphrased bible isn't "the adventist" bible, who's is it?

I agree with M.P.'s comments regarding 1 Sam. 28:7...I don't see any mention of an evil spirit either. The witch was horrified when she saw/recognized Samuel (v28:12) & knew his appearance HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER WITCHERY; but, was due to God's direct intervention in the situation.
What say who? ;-)

Moderator - When one plays with demons or familar spirits, all kinds of strange things can happen. Sounds like the witch was not in control of the demon and was caught off guard. It wasn't one of her usual familar spirits.
---Leon on 10/25/05


You have the right Clear Word I just did not agree with it being "the Adventist" Bible.
I think MP made a good comment. What say you?
---Pierre on 10/25/05


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Pierre: :-) Perhaps there's more than one Clear Word paraphrase bible? I refer to the one written by Dr. Jack Blanco, Dean of the Religion Department at Southern College of Seventh-day Adventist. Who wrote your Clear Word bible?

You're right: The question is can the dead talk to the living. However, the answer can be as different as day & night (specifically 1 Sam. 28) if one uses a thought-for-thought paraphrased bible versus a word-for-word translation of the original Hebrew & Greek text.
---Leon on 10/25/05


Moderator, please read 1 Samuel 28: 7 to the end of the chapter. I see nothing in those verses to indicate that what the woman (witch) and Saul saw was an evil spirit.

Moderator - In the KJV it uses the word "familiar spirit" to describe the woman of Endor IE demon. Scriptures Hebrews 9:27, 2 Corinthians 11:14, Lev 20:27. Are we to believe that a witch was going to thwart the will of God by conjuring up Samuel from the grave, so that Saul could speak with a prophet of God, against the explicit will of God? Saul presumed it was Samuel who he was communicating with, but instead it was a familiar spirit or demon.
---M.P. on 10/25/05


So was it a demon that the witch of Endor summoned up for Saul?

Moderator - Please give the exact scripture and I will look it up.
---M.P. on 10/25/05


He tells us NOT TO DO IT not because it is possible but when we "play" on the devil's playground, he can SEEM TO make us see and hear from his realm what God says is IMPOSSIBLE! The Bible tells us that before Jesus returns Satan will "fake" Jesus' 2nd coming and the warning is to ignore it even though it will look like the real thing! He will make Copperfield look like an amateur.
---Pierre on 10/24/05


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I've always been slightly confused over this issue. Saul appears to speak to Samuel because Samuel asked 'why have you disturbed me' and God says this is something that we shouldn't do which indicates that it is possible, but not permissible. On the other hand we are told that the dead have no consciousness so how could they communicate with anyone wishing to speak with them?

Moderator - Demons.
---M.P. on 10/24/05


Never heard that before. Please give us Bible references. Thanks!
---Pierre on 10/24/05


Leon:
The Clear Word is not THE Adventist Bible any more than the Living Bible is the Church of God Bibe.
The question is: Can the dead speak to the living?
The answer is NO! in any version! (even though the answer seems/appears to be yes)
It is like "magic" it looks like the real thing but it is an illusion. Peace!
---Pierre on 10/24/05


I made a comment about Jesus consulting with the dead Moses and Elijah about his FUTURE trip to Jerusalem and his sacrifice. Nobody seems to care enough for the truth to even comment about... especially if our mind is totally opposed to any consultation with the dead... I believe that there is a misunderstanding somewhere... If Jesus did it, it is OK with me.
---Nancy on 10/24/05


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Pierre: Oh, the Clear Word version!--The Seventh-day-Adventist Paraphrased Bible. I hope you know a paraphrased bible is a thought-for thought, not a word-to-word translation of the original Hebrew & Greek texts of the Bible. Paraphrased bibles don't have the dynamic word equivalent of the original texts. The danger of many paraphrased bibles is they don't clarify the original work, but change & confuse it.

In all sincerity, peace!
---Leon on 10/24/05


Leon: I quoted right out my Bible (The Clear Word version.
---Pierre on 10/23/05


Pierre: Where in 1 Sam. 28 (or anywhere else in the Bible) does it say, "the evil spirit impersonating Samuel spoke to Saul"?

To the contrary, I don't mean to imply Saul had "a positive experience & God looked favorably --?-- on his action." The Bible clearly shows it was a horrific encounter for Saul (verse 28:20). All I'm saying is we should let the Holy Bible speak & not try to put words into God's mouth. PEACE!
---Leon on 10/23/05


MP: Glad you asked:
MAL 4:1,3 The wicked will be consumed, burned up, turned to ashes.
EZEK 28:17-18 Satan himself will be consumed to ashes.
---Pierre on 10/23/05


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Pierre "My Bible says they will be turned into ashes". Where does it say this and in which version? I'm not arguing; just want to know because I've never seen these words.
---M.P. on 10/23/05


Leon cont.
If that is the case, He would not give me a message for you either. The Lord is simply doing what He said he would do when you disobeyed Him. He has taken the kingdom of Israel from you and given it to David.
I just wonder how after reading this you can
come up with the idea that Saul had a positive experience and God looked favorably
on his action. I don't see it. Peace!
---Pierre on 10/22/05


Leon: In His Spirit I would like to tell you that I have read the passages you asked me to read:
1 Sam 28:15 and on:
Then the evil spirit impersonating Samuelspoke yo Saul...The spirit looked just like Samuel and sounded so much like him that Saul believed it really was the prophet...
the Lord hasn't told me what to do. HE DOES NOT ANSWER MY PRAYERS ANYMORE...The spirit
replied, "Why would you ask me what to do when the Lord doesen't answer you?" TBC
---Pierre on 10/22/05


Pierre: It's not about mine, yours or anyone else's opinion(s) when it comes to the word of God. Christians can only stand on what God alone says from the pages of the Bible. It behoves each of us to agree with God's answers (explanations). (Ro. 10:17)

Peace...:-)
---Leon on 10/22/05


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Yes. Time is a creation for the bennifit of creation. God does not need it. He just is. Ex 3:6 "I am that I am." 2 Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
---Bruce5656 on 10/22/05


Bruce5656
You make the poin that God lives outside of the restrains of time.
Q. In view of the fact that He created the day and set aside the 7th day, do you still see it the same way?
---Pierre on 10/22/05


cliff and Pierre, Yes, the wages of sin is death, but this is only part of the wages; for every person will be resurrected from the dead and must stand before the judgment throne of Christ, to receive the reward for what they have done in the flesh. Eternal damnation is a chief doctrine in Christianity, our Lord Jesus himself and we true prophets of Christ all preach this. Please read Daniel 12:2; Matthew 25:41,46; Luke 16:22-26; II Thessalonians 1:9; II Corinthians 5:10; Revelation 14:11; 20:12,13.
---Eloy on 10/22/05


Bruce5656
Make that 'no place for sinners'
---Pierre on 10/22/05


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Heather: I cannot disagree with you and Eloy strongly enough! I would ask you to answer for yourself the question I asked of Eloy. Are both parties getting "eternal life"?
Do you really believe that God is going to roast people for ever and that He will stoke the flames every time the fire threatens to go out? If that were our LOVING GOD, I would want nothing to do with Him.
---Pierre on 10/21/05


Bruce5656
I read your interpretation of what will happen especially to the wicked = continued existence away from God. My Bible says they will be turned into ashes and the newly created heaven and earth will have place for sinners but you too are entitled to your opinion.
---Pierre on 10/21/05


Leon: I am not here to argue. If you don't agree with my answer, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion.
---Pierre on 10/21/05


Eloy ;The bible saysthe wages of sin is death ,but you say death-plus! Reminds me of an old western movie.."hanging's too good for this varmit!" Not to mention crime and punishment, what is this low-down ,viscious,mean act worse than murder or treason that mere death is too good for?? "Disbelief" (wow)
---1st_cliff on 10/21/05


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No, Pierre. "GOD" beyond our intellectual understanding, does just what suits His purpose.

Please read 1 Samuel 28 very carefully. Verse 16 says Samuel said. Verse 20 says what Saul heard was the, "words of Samuel". Never discount what scripture says for the sake of argument. That's unprofitable, fruitless.

The 1 Sam. 28 account shows Samuel 100 percent affirming God's word. Would a demon do that? :-)
---Leon on 10/21/05


Pierre,
In my humble opinion, "eternal" life is about quality, not quantity. The concept of time is irrellevant in "eternity" as God lives outside of the constraints of time. "Eternal" life is life with God in His "eternity" where as "eternal" death is ongoing existince outside of that fellowship with God.
---Bruce5656 on 10/21/05


Pierre, Jesus said in the Bible that Hell IS a litteral place and the souls that are sent to Hell WILL suffer and be eternally tormented. In others words, Eloy's right on that point.
---Heather on 10/21/05


Eloy: Please answer this question:
If the PUNISHING of the wicket in Hell should last for ever like you believe, THE WICKED WOULD HAVE TO FEEL/SUFFER FOR THE PUNISHMENT TO BE EFFECTIVE, in other words they would have to have ETERNAL LIFE just like the saints. IS THAT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES?
NO!
May I add: HELL in this instance is not going to be a place as much as a STATE OF BEING LOST-seperated from God for ever without hope and knowing it.
---Pierre on 10/21/05


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Eloy: So God said that the wage for sin is DEATH but you think that this is too easy! You even go so far as saying that if DEATH is all the wicked get, God would be unjust!! How dare you!!
I will in love denounce such arrogance and BEG YOU to ask God to help you with your problem. TBC
---Pierre on 10/21/05


Yes there are a few cases in the Bible... But the dead need to be Christians or born again Jews like Moses and Elijah and the purpose need to be pure and holy. They spoke with Jesus and it was OK... We can do that too if we follow in the footsteps of the Master. Not many Christians approve I don't know why.
---Nancy on 10/21/05


cliff, i brought up heaven because that is where the punished will not go, they must go to hell which is an everlasting abode and not a temporal one, just as heaven is also everlasting abode. And the members of each also are everlasting. No death is not sufficient for sin, as i have reasoned earlier, else God would be unjust in letting the sinners escape their just deserts against us holy ones.
---Eloy on 10/21/05


Eloy; I simply said isn't death (wages of sin) punishment enough? I said nothing of sin entering heaven???
---1st_cliff on 10/20/05


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cliff, Surely you don't think that sin is allowed to enter into heavens paradise. Experience teaches us that many offenses (sins) that people commit are not dealt with in the persons current life span, and may seem that the sinner has gotten away with their crimes, but the all-seeing eye will not allow the injustice and so must be held accountable in the next life, namely everlasting torments in the lake of fire.
---Eloy on 10/20/05


Eloy; Can you give me a reason why you think you have to be "alive" to be eternally "damned?" or punished. Isn't death punishment enough? (wages of sin)
---1st_cliff on 10/19/05


cliff, i already have. Please read below.
---Eloy on 10/19/05


Leon cont:
Conclusion:
Since the "dead know nothing" Ecc9:5 Satan or his agents masquerade as the form of dead loved ones imitating their forms and their voices.
REV.16:14
3. The ultimate result of Saul's visit was:
despair,discouragement and death. 1S28:16,20-21,31:3-4,9-10. Deceived by Satan he surrendred his life to demons! Nothing funny about that!
---Pierre on 10/19/05


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Leon cont:
1.God's clear command through the OT period was that spiritualists be driven out of the land of Israel and be put to death, all spiritualism
being the work of demonic, satanic forces.
Ref: Deut. 18:10-15/Isa 47:13-14
2. Saul had already rejected Samuel's counsel. He also had inquired of God but received no answer. What he saw was NOT Samuel, rather he saw "gods ascending out of
the earth" v13 but he "perceived" 1S28:14 Samuel. TBC
---Pierre on 10/19/05


Leon: My answer is based on the Bible:
1. ECC 12:7 When a person dies, the body returns to dust and the spirt, which is the same as the breath of life (Job.27:3) returns
to God. NB. It does NOT say, the soul returns
to God, but the spirit.
2. PS 146:3-4 When the breah of life returns
to God, the thoughts perish.
3. ECC: 9:5 THE DEAD DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING!
Note especially 3 important facts in regards to the Saul-Samuel story: To Be Continued:
---Pierre on 10/19/05


Eloy; When you say "raised" do you mean raised from death? Show me scripture that the spirit is immortal!
---1st_cliff on 10/19/05


Pierre: When you say "no", how do you know or do you just think so? :-)
---Leon on 10/19/05


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[Pt.3] The devil surely has plans for such people to deceive the masses leading up to and during the 'Tribulation' period. Most of the time the main message is that there's a bright LIGHT and happy future for many apart from salvation ONLY in Christ! Just try to be 'good' (forget dealing with sin); all religions view's of 'god' lead to the same after-life experience, etc. Oprah said so. BALONELY! That's *not* what Jesus told us!
---Daniel on 10/19/05


cliff, don't you know that the spirit never dies? All are raised either to everlasting life, or to everlasting damnation. Please read Daniel 12:2; Revelation 20:12-15.
---Eloy on 10/19/05


[Pt.2] This seems like a good place to bring up the world's sinful preoccupation with 'dead spirits'; esp. in the media! I want anyone reading this to 'get' just how wicked and deceitful this is: Tools of satan spend weeks scheming how to make their ideas appear very acceptable to the masses! You see, e.g., this lovely young actress who _knows_ 'seeing dead people' is a fact and is brought to tears by rude insensitive 'unbelievers' etc. [CONT.]
---Daniel on 10/18/05


[Pt.1] Norma: There's only one possible reference to this in 1 Samuel 28. If it really was Samuel, and it seems to be, then it was ONLY because GOD brought this about and *not* because Samuel or any other dead person can hear us, *nor* that some woman following satan could do that! EVERY Scripture passage on the subject condemns the idea; including 1Sam.28! Though Christians didn't stone Simon (Acts 8:9ff) to death according to Deuteronomy 18:10-12, it was just as detestable to God then (and now).
---Daniel on 10/18/05


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I can only think of times when people spoke or contacted familiar spirits and they are definately demonic. We are not to beleive in soothsayers either!
---Joyce on 10/18/05


No, Leon
God did not bring any of Samuel back, but I can sense that movies such as Ghost and Flatliner will readily think that what the Bible teaches about the state of the dead is passe.
---Pierre on 10/18/05


I see & talk to dead people all the time -- spiritually dead that is.

Regarding the question, the witch of Endor allegedly summoned Samuel's spirit back from the dead for Saul (I Sam. 28). I personally believe God brought Samuel back to the witch's dismay & horror (kinda like Whoppie Goldberg in the movie Ghost).

The parable of Lazarus & the rich man clearly shows when one is dead there's no coming back. But God, beyond our understanding, does what suits His purpose, e.g., Matthew 17:3.
---Leon on 10/18/05


Eloy; You oviously have never been to a "seance" There the "supposed" dead speak thru the mouth of the medium. Remember that he never actually saw him but recgnized the description (what he was wearing)The dead cannot speak. You are giving credence to the idea that the dead are not realy dead! As satan said to eve "you shall not "surely"die"
---1st_cliff on 10/18/05


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Thanks for the verses.
God can come in any form he likes - even a burning bush and He does the speaking.
But the dead .... hmmmm.
A funeral allows us to say goodbye ... and allows for the departed to rest forever. The wording is quite beautiful actually.
But what will we do if some of the modern TV programs are based on the restless souls wondering trying to find rest. Even the TV program ANGELS deals with God communicating and protecting man.
---barbara67 on 10/17/05


Back in my occult days sure we talked to dead people ... satan, remember, is the father of all lies. Satan and his demons can make an unbeliever believe almost anything ... I did. I am so blessed to have been homeless and led to a ministry where I was saved..
---Nellah on 10/17/05


yes cliff, Marcia's right Saul spoke to Samuel's spirit. "And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answers me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." I Samuel 28:15.
---Eloy on 10/17/05


Eloy: Glad to 2nd your answer!
---Pierre on 10/17/05


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NO Eloy; Marcia's not right! Samuel only recognized Saul from the "medium's "description, did not talk to him directly, because he was dead!
---1st_cliff on 10/17/05


Ecc 9:5, 6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.
---jerry6593 on 10/17/05


Marcia's right. "And when they will say to you, Seek to them that have familiar spirits (or family spirits), and to wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek to their God? than for the living to the dead?" Isaiah 8:19 That also goes for seances, tarot cards, fortune telling, divination, astrology, crystal ball gazing, transcendental meditation, astral projections, spell casting, demon conjurings, magic, etc., all dark works are sin and have no part in a christians life.
---Eloy on 10/17/05


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