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Jesus And The Sabbath

If Jesus (via Paul's writings) set us free from the bondage of keeping the seventh-day Sabbath, then why did He call Himself Lord of the Sabbath (Mat 12:8), customarily keep Sabbath (Luk 4:16) and why was He concerned that Christians not have to flee Jerusalem (AD 70) on the Sabbath day (Mat 24:20)?

Moderator - Jesus was a Jew that is why.

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Daniel 7 re abomination of desolation. It concerns a covenant made with JEWS not Christians . Also the warning to FLEE and hoping it won't be on the sabbath to the JEWS is under the sabbath LAW you can only travel so far. Their allotted distance would not have gotten them out of Jerusalem, and far enough away. How far do you travel to church on your sabbath Jerry? Also note....DONT LET ANYONE IN.

OK, we know according to prophecy something HORRIBLE is going to happen in Jerusalem. We see in Zechariah 12-14 Jerusalem described differently appears to have had one unbelievable earthquake....

This is concerning GOD' s wrath on the anti-Christ who defiled the Temple....probably sitting in there believing himself to be God.
---kathr4453 on 9/27/14

John 7:1, He avoids.

Matthew 12:14_15 "Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all,..."


"abscond, break out (of), clear out, flee, fly, get out, lam, run away, run off
Related Words
"avoid, elude, evade, lose, shun, decamp, depart, elope, exit, go, leave, move, pull out, quit, sally (forth), shove (off), take off, walk out, disentangle..."
---Nana on 9/27/14

Warwick, surely you are not going to stand here and tell us Matthew 24 was FULFILLED in 70ad?

And you want us to believe in 70ad Gentile Christians also living in Jerusalem in 70ad fled with all the JEWS assuming ALL THE JEWS IN JERUSALEM IN 70ad were Christians? Who exactly were they fleeing from? NERO? OK so in 70 AD Nero is let tells us then WHAT HAPPENED. Did it happen on the Sabbath. Was any FLEEING DONE ON THE SABBATH? Where did they flee to? The desert in Revelation 12? And you say Rev 12 came to pass? And also Matthew 24 came to pass? And Zechariah 12-14 came to pass, ALL OF IT? Because if ALL OF IT, wasn't fulfilled, then your questions and confrontational attitude doesn't need to be answered.
---kathr4453 on 9/27/14

Kathr: "Jerry thinks Jesus told CHRISTIANS to fell Jerusalem. How funny is that?"

No Kath, it was JESUS Himself who told Christians to FLEE (not fell) Jerusalem. You mock our Lord by laughing at His word, just like you mock:

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But then again, you have confirmed that ALL your posts are lies, so at least you are consistent.

---jerry6593 on 9/27/14

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains, and let them which are in the midst of it depart out, and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
---Jasper on 9/27/14

Let me summarize. The verses in Luke and Matthew both have a chapter detailing a specific time, with warning.." When you see" referring to Daniel's vision. Was Daniel's vision really about Nero? What about 135ad, much worse than 70ad? What happened to CHRISTIANS ???not living in Jerusalem? Yet in both places, I don't see any reference to Christians at all. THOSE WHO applied to "Those living in Jerusalem".

Did Nero persecute CHRISTIANS, both Jew and Gentile? And WHY and what brought about this persecution? Does it describe Daniel's vision?

So after this happened, did the sun, moon and stars do what scripture said happened? Proof please. Did Christ return to Earth as scripture clearly states He will?
---kathr453 on 9/27/14

Dear kathr4453 It is not the Bible that condemns me with words like those who need the law do not love GOD. Or that SDA are like the Israelites and are lost.
In love we go above and beyond what all the Ten Commandments say. What I oppose is saying do not obey GOD Ten Commandments.
The SDA church does not teach that those who set aside Sunday are anti-Christ. We believe the RCC is an antichrist organization down through history but that many Christians are part of it. Some zealots have made the charge you state but that is not our teaching or doctrine.

I apologize for those who in their zeal go above and beyond into prejudice against our brothers and sisters in Christ.

---Samuelbb7 on 9/27/14

Kath, you argue for the sake of arguing.

You wrote: "Where in all of the NT does Paul, Peter or anyone warn us to FLEE? Did Paul FLEE when taken prisoner to Rome. NO!"

See 2 Corinthians 11:32,33 for one example "At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands."

Even King David fled from Saul 1 Samuel 19:12!

And as Jerry has alluded to Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it." the very words of Jesus.,
---Warwick on 9/26/14

The mystery of Christ explains how our righteousness and holiness comes from Christ, by grace alone, through faith alone, not from observing days
Our position in Christ makes us holy, without Christ we are nothing (Eph 2:21).
Observing days takes us back to where rest only comes at the end of the week, month, or year. By turning back we diminish our position of rest already in Christ every day
Paul says holy day laws were weak and beggarly:- Gal 4:9-11
He was afraid because their orientation was towards something other than the thing that gave them salvation: the preaching of the cross. Esteeming one day as holier than other days has the same affect of limiting the effect of the cross to one day.
---michael_e on 9/26/14

Samuel, those Born from above, we are at this moment seated with Christ in Heavenly places in Christ. In Heaven there is no time, day, month, moons, etc. So unless Jesus were keeping Saturday Sabbath UP THERE and we are UP THERE with Him, maybe yes. But Jesus is not keeping Saturday Sabbath in Heaven. There is no such thing as Saturday in Heaven. So our relationship is also timeless, eternal. We have date night all the time, on a dime and are communicating together faster than a NY minute. . We dont have to schedule time to spend alone. He IS our LIFE, our very being. We live IN CHRIST and He in us NON STOP. Our relationship is MORE intimate than a marriage
---kathr4453 on 9/26/14

Samuel, no one is judging you, however if the scripture that has been posted is judging your conscience, then God may be.

Samuel, many people have to work on Saturday, and have Wednesdays off. Do you have a problem with another day, or is it THAT DAY only?

You see, part of the problem is, those who set aside Sunday are called anti_Christ by your THAT is judgmental.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/14

kathr4453 I am married like I am married to JESUS. I love and worship Him daily not just one day a week. I also go to work five days a week. But on Sabbath my wife and I are together. So if you asked your husband to stay home and spend Saturday with you and you told him no, I have too many other things to do but I will call and talk to you for a little while, how would you feel?
So because we set aside the day GOD told his people too in the Ten Commandments we are dead in our sins? Why?
We have entered his rest from salvation by works and his day give to all mankind. Why do you and Luke judge us as lost because we seek to follow GOD and the Bible?
JESUS CHRIST is my LORD and Savior. Is it not wrong to judge Christians?
---Samuelbb7 on 9/26/14

We can also look to those during the reformation when the RCC murdered anyone who would not submit to them, Did Christians FLEE and hide then. No they did not. OR Cowards maybe, but then we do have a verse saying COWARDS will not enter the Kingdom of God. Hummmm...

This verse is our very being, regardless of what generation we live in.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/14

Jerry thinks Jesus told CHRISTIANS to fell Jerusalem. How funny is that?
---kathr4453 on 9/26/14

Jesus said the time of Jacobs trouble would be the greatest tribulation. Hitlers Holocaust killed more people worldwide than Nero did. Also Nero committed suicide. No verse says the anti-Christ commits suicide.
This time period is also called by Jeremiah the time of Jacobs trouble.
Jer 30:7-11: Alas! For that day is great, so that none is like it, and it is the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.'For it shall come to pass in that day,' says the LORD of hosts, 'That I will break his yoke from your neck, and will burst your bonds, foreigners shall no more enslave them--- ---. But I will correct you in justice, and will not let you go altogether unpunished.

---kathr453 on 9/26/14

Haz27, great back up.... the parable applies here as well...seeing they don't see, hearing they don't hear....

Warwick, you may want to REREAD Judges...especially chapters 4 and 5.

Not a sword found in they let the oppressors run over them.

Now to judges 5....what tribe laid down their lives even unto death? And what tribe cowardly hid, and who did not come to the aid of The Lord...who was cursed?

Where in all of the NT does Paul, Peter or anyone warn us to FLEE? Did Paul FLEE when taken prisoner to Rome. NO!

The only thing we are to FLEE is SIN.

Put on the WHOLE armor of God Christians, where no where in any verses are we to FLEE. We are to STAND in the power of God even unto death.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/14

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Kathyr it is rather the other way round. Jesus being the Law, then you can't not love it. If u love me, obey my commands. I think your twisting truth away from the truth. Jesus was warning us of the impending trouble n persecution we will go thru. He does not say anything without meaning it for God is not man that he should lie praise him. My thoughts anyway
---Jasper on 9/26/14

And Warwick, I also need to add, Jesus being OUR example did not FLEE when being taken and then crucified.

We too are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Deal with it. That's why we're here.

Also "sword" in Judges is the same as today. Meaning they were defenseless, weak, powerless. Why, ...just read why? All was written for OUR instruction.

---kathr453 on 9/26/14

Good post Warwick!

Apparently, Kathr thinks that Jesus was lying when He told Christians to flee Jerusalem. She has just confirmed that some of her posts are true and some are not, and it is our job to figure out which is which. I've now got her calibrated.


---jerry6593 on 9/26/14

Good posts Kathr.

I'd like to add the following scriptures regarding the law.

Rom 9:31,32
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone

Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness HAVE NOT SUBMITTED TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD
---Haz27 on 9/25/14

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How can anyone imagine Christians do not have to flee. Anyone even casually acquainted with the happenings of the world should know that Christians are fleeing slaughter (because they are Christian) at the hands of Islamists in numerous Islamic countries.

Should they stand firm and see their whole family and indeed whole Christian communities slaughtered? It is one thing to philosophize from a high and comfortable spot in a safe country, but a totally different thing when a knife is placed, by a monster, at your throat or your children's throats.

How is the gospel spread in Islamic countries unless people evade execution by fleeing to another place?
---Warwick on 9/25/14

Foolish me!

---jerry6593 on 9/25/14

Glad you see the light.

Ok lets move on to the post question.

The fleeing of Jerusalem spoken of in the Gospels of was not 70AD. Christians no matter where you are will never have to worry about FLEEING anywhere on the Sabbath or any other day. There is no reason for us to FLEE? Who or what are we fleeing? Why would Christians have to FLEE the wrath of the Lamb, the wrath of God? Those secure In Christ don't have to run and hide from anything...not even Satan. WE have OVERCOME the evil one, so we don't have to FLEE Satan either. This time is called the WRATH OF GOD, spoken to Israel concerning OT prophecy that will come to pass at it's appropriate time.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/14

Now that we have established what is it to be saved, Born Again, one with God in Christ, and that our intimate relationship is that of LOVE, not rules. .1) thou shall not beat me
2) thou shall not lie to me
3) thou shall not murder me
4) thou shall not be unfaithful to me

OR, does LOVE, go above and beyond any RULES. And then to be asked, now since you love your wife, and you don't go by rules, does that mean you can beat her?

Doesn't your LOVE for your wife, husband children go beyond 10 thou shall not's ?

But many are in relationships that are not born in LOVE, who do need the LAW breathing down their neck.

And if you need the LAW, then you really don't LOVE GOD.
---kathr4453 on 9/25/14

Laws are for lawbreakers where breaking the "Thou shall not", REQUIRES PUNISHMENT.

And the LAW was that reminder every year on the day of atonement , their sin was COVERED...NOT FORGIVEN, until the next year. It was a remembrance year after year, once a year, and the LAW pointing out SIN was the schoolmaster to bring them to Christ, To show them, (Jews) that although they were God's chosen people, they TOO were sinners who needed a savior.

So yes, the Law is good if you know how to use it. The majority of Jews did not, rejecting Jesus Christ, but bless their heart, they still keep the laws. And many Gentiles today totally blind to the purpose of the Law have followed in their failure...Romans 10. Hebrews 10.
---kathr453 on 9/25/14

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kathr: "Just like Jerry only picking one sentence and not the WHOLE of the post."

Perhaps you should point out for us which of your statements you mean to be true and which are false. I simply believed that you meant them all. Foolish me!

---jerry6593 on 9/25/14

AMEN Luke.

Firstly: "that they may KNOW thee",...
We are one with Christ...I in them and thou in me that we may be ONE. Being ONE here and KNOWING God is that of the most intimate personal relationship there is.

Samuel, I don't know if you are married, but our relationship with God in Christ is a marriage.

Now if I were married to someone who said to me..."I am going to set one day aside just for you, and the other 6 for myself, I'd throw that bum's carcass out the door in a heart beat". Maybe that's how the renegade Mormons who have many wives do it....
---kathr4453 on 9/24/14

//So do you think that your earthly father should not be visited for a day since you are his son or daughter in love with him every day?

Do just a couple of phone calls and saying I am thinking of you take the place of spending a time with your family.//

Samuel, you always says some ridiculous stuff. What is it that you do not understand? Under the New Covenant, God put His Spirit in us. God is with us always. We do not have to stop one day, and speak to Him. We can do that everyday. He is our rest. We rest in Him. We are being change everyday. We still make mistakes but God is changing us. We are not along as you suppose. We are in Christ, who is God. You must not be in Christ, because you should already understand.
---Luke on 9/24/14

Well done, you explained it very well. The SDA's are like the Israelites, they did not enter His rest. But all those in Christ do enter His rest.
"For we (believers in Christ) who have believed do enter that rest, as He said,

"So I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest" He was speaking of the Israelites because we are told,
"And God rested on the seventh day from all His works, and again in this place, they shall not enter My rest" (Heb. 4:5).
We worship Him everyday now that we are in His rest.
---Luke on 9/23/14

Absolutely Luke, but one thing we can all be sure of.....they did keep the sabbath laws, setting that one day aside for God and body, and still died in their sin.
---kathr4453 on 9/24/14

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Replacing Sunday with the Sabbath s what is wrong not the worship of God and the resting from work [not good} on the Sabbath.

The rituals were made ineffective based on the disrespect for the significance of the sacrifices and the inability to recognise that sin was the problem, hence Christs blood being shed was the last atonement for our sins, and so grace gave favour to teach us sin needs to stop.

But do we listen is this not God saying who will listen will stop, those who have no Ears will continue...... regardless!

Its pointless arguing about the two factors when the rituals is what is abolished the rest is still in tact.
---Carla on 9/23/14

Just like Jerry only picking one sentence and not the WHOLE of the post. Any crooked politician can do this and have, even our slanted news media. What else is new. Nothing new under the sun....

Jasper, the ignorance of those who believe one can now murder because we are not under law, only shows the ignorance of one who has never experienced DYING TO SIN. or one who cannot read or comprehend Romans 6...shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound? GOD FORBID..."DON'T you know".....finish reading Romans 6 Jasper, and after reading, please stop asking stupid questions. Let's let GOD answer your nonsense!
---kathr4453 on 9/23/14

I worship JESUS every day and have rested from trying to save myself.

But as you set apart Sunday as a Special day to worship GOD.

GOD set apart a special day to worship Him.

The part about the Sabbath made for humans was ignored as well as the part that the Sabbath is for not only spiritual rest but physical rest.

While I commune with GOD at work and especially when driving on the Freeway it is not the same as have time to spend with him.

So do you think that your earthly father should not be visited for a day since you are his son or daughter in love with him every day?

Do just a couple of phone calls and saying I am thinking of you take the place of spending a time with your family.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/23/14

Kathyr, then you are saying, I can shoot anyone if I want cos there's no law to follow as you say, it's done away? Or I can lie with your husband freely bcos there is no law to abide by? The ten commandment laws still stand but, the Ceremonal Laws are done away when Jesus was crucified signifying the end of the animal sacrifices for our sim, and Him becoming the Sacrificial Lamb of God. Which wipes away the sims of te world Halleluija.....
---Jasper on 9/23/14

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Well done, you explained it very well. The SDA's are like the Israelites, they did not enter His rest. But all those in Christ do enter His rest.
"For we (believers in Christ) who have believed do enter that rest, as He said,

"So I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest"
He was speaking of the Israelites because we are told,
"And God rested on the seventh day from all His works, and again in this place, they shall not enter My rest" (Heb. 4:5).
We worship Him everyday now that we are in His rest.
---Luke on 9/23/14

Kathr: "Did I say the 7th day was not connected to creation. NO so please stop twisting words never spoken."

These are the words you wrote on 9/22/2014:

"Jasper, the sabbath rest was not given at creation. That is YOU reading between the lines presuming something not said or instated."

So which is it Kathr? It seems that you don't read your own posts.

Mod: You insinuate that the Sabbath was only for Jews, but Jesus clearly states that it was made for MAN - not for JEWS. Besides, Jesus is our example - follow Him.

---jerry6593 on 9/23/14

//Please show scripture which identifies true rest as you so pointed out//.

Hebrews 4
---aka on 9/22/14

Kathy, not accepting the true rest...we are talking about the Sabbath rest. Please show scripture which identifies true rest as you so pointed out. Where exactly in Rev, you are just quoting here n there but no exact txt.
---Jasper on 9/22/14

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Samuel, how sad to just set one day aside for God. Those IN CHRIST are eternal beings who commune with God through Jesus Christ every moment of every day. Why short change God as if you are doing Him a big favor, by giving Him one day a week. When one gives their WHOLE doesn't get any better than that...THAT is truly entering His Rest.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/14

Our rest in Christ as our Savior is not the same as our physical rest on the Day GOD set aside in the Ten Commandments.

Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

While it is true that our rest on the Sabbath shows we are not trying to earn salvation, it is a gift of GOD. It is a time set aside for worship, fellowship and just spending time with JESUS.

Human beings will and do work themselves to death. They refuse to spend quality time with our Heavenly Father.

But a whole day. Imagine your earthly Father asked you to spend a day with him. And you go over spend an hour or two then say that you got to split there is more fun things to do then spend time with him.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/22/14

Jerry, it appears you do have a problem reading and comprehending as we also see in another blog.

Did I say the 7th day was not connected to creation. NO so please stop twisting words never spoken. This is becoming an habitual habit with you, and seeing you have a problem in this area, I do not wish to converse with someone who only sees and reads what he wants to, never really comprehending the whole of what someone said. Your answer on Age of man before the flood proves you have comprehension issues.

Now go back and read my post again showing where I in fact said the 7 day absolutely was connected to creation and WHY and WHAT it meant.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/14

Jasper: Congrats for resurrecting this 9-year old blog.

Kathr: I see that you are still twisting scripture to agree with your non-biblical belief system. Do you really believe that God esteems disobedience above obedience to His Law? An as for your ill-informed assertion:

"Jasper, the sabbath rest was not given at creation.",

God Himself answers:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

To assert that the Seventh-day Sabbath is not connected to Creation is to call God a liar.

---jerry6593 on 9/22/14

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Jasper, not accepting the TRUE REST of God through Jesus Christ are those in bondage. Just look in Revelation....those who WORK DAY AND NIGHT....are the ones in bondage worshiping the beast.

The shadow of things to come in Colossians 2 is Paul reiterating what times will be like under the Kingdom reign on earth, see Zechariah 14, but clearly say we the CHURCH are not now or ever subjected to these Kingdom laws those who were called the Judieazers were still forcing on Jews and Gentiles....see Galatians for that scenario. Paul AGAIN explains the CHURCH is not subjected to that time or doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/14

No one is forced on anything. We are just voicing how we understand the word. Jesus spoke of those in the world yet to come in. We who have accepted Christ, are resting in him and them who haven't are yet to come. There is no such thing as Bondage of keeping Sabbath. We refuse to accept the true sabbath God gave and so call it bondage. Is it that hard to accept Gods commands? Jesus said, "if u love me, obey my commands. Simple
---Jasper on 9/21/14

Jasper, if you read Hebrews 3-4 you will see the word REST, also speaking of the 7 the day. However today we ENTER HIS REST. So it
Was a sign, today fulfilled in Christ.

Just as the 8 the day circumcision too was a SIGN, but we again see in Colossians 2 that is fulfilled in Christ. The 8 the day pointed to,the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why we worship,on the 8th day, the first day after the seventh.

Circumcision was also a sign of the covenant yet I don't see anyone forcing this on anyone today. Why?
---kathr4453 on 9/21/14

Romans 3:31

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Christians fight to put copies of the Ten Commandments in many public places.

But we are told by some here we are not to obey the Ten Commandments. Because they are from the law and the Old Testament.

The Bible is written for us.

2Timothy 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

This especially includes the Gospels.

---Samuelbb7 on 9/21/14

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Kathr, Colosian 2 speaks of ceremonial laws done away. If sabbath was done away, along with ceremonial sabbaths. Why are people worshipping on Sundays n Saturdays?
Gen 2:3 says sabbath was blessed and sanctified. Ezekiel 20:20 Sabbath a sign between God and man so it can't be done away as some think. God bless
---Jasper on 9/21/14

//Jesus was talking to Jews, not Gentiles. Hahah//
Correct, Jesus was born and lived under Law. He was speaking to Israel as scripture says (Matt 10:5,6, 15:24, John 1:11, Rom. 15:8) It's recorded He spoke to two gentiles
---michael_e on 9/20/14

Brother Lee, the Old Testament is to point us to Chrsts coming (His birth) and the New Testament to prepare us for His future coming to take us home. So friend, you cannot leave the OT out, it goes together with the NT. We cannot go anywhere without our shadow. It is continuously with us, just as the OT is with the NT. Bless you
---Jasper on 9/20/14

Jasper, the sabbath rest was not given at creation. That is YOU reading between the lines presuming something not said or instated. There is no verse even in Job where he mentions the sabbath or keeps it.

GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY. That day pointed to Jesus Christ. That day was sanctified. Seven means complete, perfect. Only those IN Christ are complete and Perfect.

Colossians 2 also tell us we are not under any sabbath, nor do we practice anything that was under the Law.

Scripture tells us we are COMPLETE IN HIM. Therefore we ENTER HIS REST, And by that we are sanctified in Christ, 24/7/365. Today people are sanctified....not days. Those days were types and shadows pointing to the finished works of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/14

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Jesus was talking to Jews, not Gentiles. Hahah that means all Gentiles will not get to heaven because of unbelief. Is that what you mean Kathyr4453? I'd like to think that Gentiles will be moved by Gods Holy Spirit to believe and therefore inherit the K.O.God. Jesus was at the creation and b4 there ever was a Jew. Sabbath began at creation as well as the laws. A & E knew they did wrong after they sinned.
---Jasper on 9/20/14

Those criticise SDAs should go experience their teachings and know where they come from. I don't know Islam so I don't criticise till I know wot it's all about. Nothing in bible wot says Jesus free us from bondage of 7day sabbath keeping. It says 7day is sabbath. Me no problem with bible.
I have with those who change wot bible says
---Jasper on 9/20/14

The problem as I see it with many Adventists & Sabbaterians is that they fail to make any distinction between the Old & New Covenant. They reject the concept that the church is under the New Covenant and not the Old and attempt impose cherry picked laws from the OT onto the church.

For instance, they like the Judaizers, argue that Christians need to observe dietary laws, and the OT sabbath - things not found within the New Covenant.
---Lee on 3/6/08

Pop, You relayed the Truth very eloquently and easy-to-understand. YAHUVEH Bless you!
---Gordon on 2/29/08

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YAHUSHUA was more than just a Jew, for the sake of the Jews. He is also a Light to the Gentiles. He came not to abolish GOD's Holy Commandments, 1 through 10, but, to fulfill Them, and be our Example in how to live them out, by the Holy Spirit's Power. To show us what kind of Life GOD expects in us. The Sabbath is not a Burden nor is it Bondage. The LORD created the Sabbath to be a Day of Rest for ALL OF MANKIND. He established it not in Exodus, but in Genesis, before there was a Jew/Gentile distinction.
---Gordon on 2/29/08

The Sabbath came to be at creation way before there ever was a Jew..if you dont want to worship on God's day which is the 7th day, because Jesus was a Jew, then your not a christian..because all christians are symbolically called Jews or Israelites for God only chose Jews/Hebrews as His people and those who choose to follow, are also called His people..there is no such thing as freed from bondage of 7th day Sabbath keeping for Christ is also the Sabbath, the Word, the law, all of it, not just some..
---pop on 2/29/08

John, get to know the different bible laws..the law your talking about is the ceremonial laws given to Israel to prepare them for the coming Christ..then when He came, they crucified Him and there n then,the Cer/Laws ended for He became the Sacrificial Lamb of God that takes away our spiritual sins..
---pop on 2/29/08

Amen Moderator, 'nuf said!
Jerry, if you want to get into another Sabbath taffy pull, pick one that's already on the blogs. This is getting olddddd....
---NVBarbara on 2/28/08

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Jana. There is no bondage in keeping the Sabbath? According to the BIble the law was bondage and brought death to every one becasue it was impossible to keep it all. I'd say there is so much bondage in the Sabbath that you have never really kept it perfectly yourself even though you judge others to be lost becasue of of their disobedience to it.
---john on 9/19/06

Jesus was talking to Jews, Not Gentiles.
Gentiles were never under Law, and never were told to keep a sabbath. Now or then for that matter.

Jesus IS our REST. He died and rose again, so we can "Rest" in Him. He Is Lord of the Sabbath, He "IS" the Sabbath! He "IS" also the resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 9/19/06

if the Sabbath was created before sin at creation. When this world is destroyed and a new earth will be created. Won't the Sabbath be part of that new sinless world?
---buffwarrior on 9/18/06

Jesus was a Jew so He's a Jewish God am I right?. Whom are you all wroshiping? Isnt it a Jewish God? Whom do you obey? Isnt it a Jewish God? Whom do you love and obey? Isnt it a Jewish God? So, if you love me Jesus said, OBEY MY COMMANDS. Is that hard to do? If you dont want to obey, then your not of Christ. simple as that.
---jana on 9/18/06

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there was never any bondage in keeping the sabbath...Jesus being a Jew does not mean only Jews believe...whom are you all believing or worshiping? Jesus is the Word John 1:1,2,3..the very thing we are studying today...Our Lord and Savior...Are you worshiping Christ or satan...
---jana on 6/18/06

By the way Lee, what does "scriptures out of CONTENT" mean? Should have been "context". Sorry about that, but out of context means that a particular verse does not directly relate to the subject being addressed. Some cults such as the JWs are good about doing that much the same way as the modern day judaizers who try to convince people that laws given to the Jewish nation also applies to the church today. None of my commentaries makes any reference to 70 AD on this passage.
---lee on 11/23/05

Lee & Lupe: I agree that the prophecy of Mat 24 refers to the end times, but I believe that it has dual application to the AD 70 Roman assault on Jerusalem as well. But, you both make my point even more forcefully, in that Jesus' concern for our continued Sabbath keeping reaches all the way to the end times, and includes Christians today. By the way Lee, what does "scriptures out of CONTENT" mean?
---jerry6593 on 11/23/05

Jerry, I too have read all the scriptures you put down and what is your point? What is written in Matthew 24 is future the way Lee has put down. That has nothing to do with Pauls writings on the Sabbath. In verse 22, the matter is clear, that if the afflictions of this time were to continue, no flesh would be saved, No one would survive. But for "the elects sake"(so that redeemed people do not suffer more than they can bear) the time is "Shortened", held short of total destruction.
---Lupe2618 on 11/22/05

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Jerry - what makes your comments so very obfuscating is that you use scripture out of content. If you were to read the previous verses of Matthew 24 you would see that it pertains to that event when "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place..", nothing to do at all with 70 AD when the Romans overthrow Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. Mt. 24 is often referred to as the "Little Apocrypha" and refers to end time events.
---lee on 11/19/05

Mt. 12:8 "For the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath day".
Because the Sabbath is made for humanity, the Lord of humanity is the Lord of the Sabbath. Observe, is the Lord of the Sabbath. He does not, then, abolish it, but has the right to make any change in it, in the interest of mankind, that seems to him wise. Neither Moses, nor any other mortal, ever claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath. This is a declaration of Divinity.
---lee on 11/19/05

Eloy: Your circumlocution and obfuscation notwithstanding, you have not come anywhere near answering my question.
---jerry6593 on 11/19/05

Barb: Please forgive my having bored you. I myself get sick of wading through blogs better suited for an Ann Landers column or the Jerry Springer Show. However, in Christian charity, I hold my peace. I also tire of the many entries concerning the fictitious "secret rapture / 7-year tribulation", but I give my opinion each time. I find the calling of anyone's religion disparaging names very offensive. But I can't understand why you would find anything boring about the life of Jesus.
---jerry6593 on 11/19/05

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My feathers are not ruffled Jerry. God's word is important to me, but the same basic question being on the Forum several times at once is boringly redundant.
---NVBarbara on 11/15/05

jerry, if all the Jews went to the synagogue on saturday, and Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, where do you think Jesus was commanded to go to save the sheep? The synagogue, of course, where the sheep were gathered. Read what he said to the Jews in this passage in the synagogue: Luke 4:17-30. Basically, I am this prophesied Messiah spoken of in Isaiah, he said to them, "This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
---Eloy on 11/14/05

Eloy: I cannot fathom a logical paradigm by which Luk 4:16 could be rendered as "He [Jesus] did not customarily keep the Sabbath. "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, AS HIS CUSTOM WAS, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read." History attests to the fact that all Christians kept the Sabbath until the pagan influences of Rome forced a counterfeit day of worship.
---jerry6593 on 11/14/05

Mod: OK, who is the audience that the scriptures were written for? Isn't it all mankind? If not, why did Jesus command us to "go ye into all the world?" (Mar 16:15)

Moderator - One must read each scripture and understand THAT scripture in the context.
---jerry6593 on 11/13/05

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1- Jesus' disciples were breaking the sabbath and the Pharisees asked why, Jesus said David broke the sabbath, and I also am Lord of even the sabbath; Jesus is Lord of every thing and can break the sabbath too. 2- he did not customarily keep the sabbath, but went to the synagogue on the sabbath to convert the Jews who customarily went there. 3- sabbath literally means rest, so when the AntiChrist commits his high desecration, pray that you don't have to run from your house in the winter, nor at rest.
---Eloy on 11/13/05

Now come on, Barb, let's not get our feathers ruffled. The Ten Commandments are important to God. They are important to me as well, that's why I like to talk about them. If they are not important to you, then pick another blog. I've not seen the Mod post a list of forbidden Bible topics yet.
Mod: So they were all Jews. So what? They were also Christians. "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:29)

Moderator - When something is written, you has to keep in mind the audience.
---jerry6593 on 11/12/05

As to why not to flee on the Sabbath, the Jews of the period were taught that they could not travel more then a stadia from their homes, without breaking the Sabbath. Hence, tyr to get awy from Jerusalem when it is being attacked, one stadia is about the distance to the Mount of Olives.
---mike6553 on 11/12/05

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