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What Is Ecumenism

What do you understand by ecumenism? Do you think it is right ot wrong?

Moderator - Yes, it is reducing all elements of faith to the lowest common denominator and uses the weakest doctrines. It leads many people to believe that they are a Christian when they are not.

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 ---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05
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Cond #3--->
The WCC is dedicated to breaking down doctrinal standards of many denominations. The movement today is dangerous to the unsaved and confusing to the Saved. Stay away!
---Elder on 5/12/08


The council of Tent anathematized every Christian who disagrees with any detail of Catholic doctrine. These anathemas have NEVER been cancelled.In 1302, Pope Boniface VIII declared no-one can be saved unless he/she is subject to the pope. In 1849 and 1863 Pope Pius IX declared no-one can be saved outside the RCC.These are INFALLIBLE statements according to the RCC, and cannot be reversed.Ecumenism anyone?
---Dima on 5/19/07


The modern Catholic approach to Ecumenism seems inconsistent with the doctrine that THERE IS NO SALVATION outside the RCC. It also seems inconsistent with modern Canon law. ( Papal Encyclicals are online. They are easy to find).
---Dima on 5/19/07


One World Religion?! You obviously have not thought this one through. Where do you suppose the anti-christ and false prophet are going to come from? The anti-christ will be a political AND religious leader. Guess who's trying to unite all faiths under one umbrella regardless of their doctrine? Bingo!
---Dima on 5/19/07


Moderator::Without desiring to be arguementative May I ask why did Jesus Create one His Doctrine His Church mat16:17-17 One Flock.One Pope to oversee;One lord & Master of all,which amounts to one world Religion in Christ.Any thoughts.?
---Emcee on 5/17/07




Modersator ... thasnk you for your judgment on ecumenism. Can you say what yopu undertand it to be?

Because here in the UK ... at least as the group of churches in the area where I live, it seems to mean that different denominations still maintain their own detail beliefs, but co-operate in certian areas ... such as help for the needy, distribution of leaflets to the community showing our various service times, and concentrating on the greatest and strongest doctrine ... that Jesus saves.

Moderator - Who is Jesus? Ecumenism has many different answers to that question. Ecumenism is the preparation for the One World Religion in the Book of Revelation. That's not something that true Christians want to be involved with.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/17/07


**rcc teaches a co redeemer**

* W * R * O * N * G * !!!!!

While there are some, perhaps many, Roman Catholics who believe this, is it NOT the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

In fact, there are MANY Roman Catholics who reject it.

OTOH, take a GOOD look at Islam and what it is actually doing and teaching, and then decide who is the REAL Antichrist.
---Jack on 11/4/06


**(maryology)**

This is NOT the definition of "Mariology" (see the proper spelling given here).

The word simply means "the teaching and doctrine about Mary the Mother of Jesus."

EVERY church has SOME kind of Mariology.
---Jack on 11/4/06


rw::why is it that people are so ready to spit venom like a snake,surely that was not Jesus's way.If you & those of you who dont agree.Cannot see what the Creator intended,isn't it better to find out, than pass judgement for your own condenmation.Satan did the same to Eve. who created denominations,& what has that produced CHAOS his name. Reflect each one of us do not incriminate & didcriminate use the free will we have to unite not disband.
---Emcee on 11/3/06


Lupe, i'll say it---the rcc is antichrist. Jesus said He is the ONLY way. rcc teaches a co redeemer (maryology) and that the pope is the vicar of Christ (vicar means to take the place of) this is antiChrist
---r.w. on 11/3/06




2. I"m talking about God's moral law. His nature never changes so His moral laws never change. Again you take passages and use them without continuety or merit. Those verses are there to show us who we are without Him and to follow His ways.
---Lupe2618 on 12/4/05


Why do you think the Bible gives us all those, "Be's"? It is because we are not and we should be obedient to God. If we were perfect He would not have to give us the guidelines to follow. We would be just like you are already and Of course we are not. We need the commands of God so that we can live a holy life. You abolished the laws because of what you believe to be true but God's laws still stand and will forever. They are His nature.
---Lupe2618 on 12/4/05


Why do you think the Bible gives us all those, "Be's"? It is because we are not and we should be obedient to God. If we were perfect He would not have to give us the guidelines to follow. We would be just like you are already and Of course we are not. We need the commands of God so that we can live a holy life. You abolished the laws because of what you believe to be true but God's laws still stand and will forever. They are His nature.
---Lupe2618 on 12/4/05


He commands us: Be perfect-Matthew 5:48;Hebrews 10:14; I Thessalonians 5:23
Be righteous-Deuteronomy 6:18; Matthew 5:20
Be good, and bear good fruit-Matthew 12:33; Matthew 5:44; James 4:17; 3 John 11
Be obedient-Deuteronomy 13:4; Jeremiah 7:23; Romans 6:16
Sin not-Psalms 4:4; John 5:14; 8:11; Romans 6:12; I Corinthians 15:34
Be clean-Isaiah 1:16
Be pure-James 4:8; I John 3:3
Be holy-Leviticus 19:2; 20:7,26
Lie not-Leviticus 19:11; Colossians 3:9
Bless, and curse not-Matthew 5:44
---Eloy on 12/1/05


Alan, Jesus commands, either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree evil and its fruit evil, for a tree is known by the fruit it bears. Noone can serve two masters. "And now also the ax is laid onto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forward good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. If a man stays not in me, he is put forward as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and throw into the fire, and they are burned." Matthew 3:10; John 15:6.
---Eloy on 12/1/05


Alan, i respond according to the misjudgments you create. BTW i have led many to salvation and to recommittments to the Lord, however you will still say whatever you choose, even when shown that it is a miscall on your part. i understand the common mistranslation, but Jesus did not say forgive our trespasses in the passage. The actual transliterated Greek reads,..."And relieve us our debts, as even we relieve our debtors." Matthew 6:12. Jesus plainly was refering to owing money and nothing else.
---Eloy on 12/1/05


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2. honor Him with their heart as well. Since God alone can read the human heart, the true elect are visible to Him. One of the RCC's most noticable things is, allowing the worship to saints. To me that changes the way they believe in the minds of many people that I know in Texas. You should see the alters they have for them. Now that has got to be so wrong. They go in prayer to God through a saint, and not through Christ. I have a big problem with that. Would you consider that anti-Christ? Peace brother
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


You are correct Alan, we can differ and still be Christian. I believe we all learn as we go and no one knows it all. I agree with you on the differences. Now the differences in the RCC are much greater. Though I don't call them anti-Christ, they have a long way to go to clean up. Jesus indicated there would be tares growing along with the wheat. Though the church is "holy" it always, in this age, has an unholy mixture within it. Not all of those that honor Christ with their lips
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


Eloy ... I believe that I am saved, but still sin, and still pray "Forgive me my trespasses" as commanded by Jesus.
Your response to me indicates that you do not care that I am (according to yuor beliefs) not saved. That seems to show a level of love which falls somewhat short of the love of Jesus. Even though you say you have the mind of Jesus and are sinless, you do not seem to have His love of others.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/30/05


Lupe ... you are wandering very far from the points I have made, and have not answered them. I am saying that we can differ on detail, and yet both be Christian. You and I differ on HOW one decides to trust Christ, but I think neither of us say the other is not Christian. Now Eloy appears to deny I can be Christian, because I find that even though saved, I still sin.
I agree with you about about RCC errors, but do not feel they are so gross as to make the RCC into anti-Christ, which some would do.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/30/05


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2. is for learning and teaching and also to edify the body of Christ. I have spoken against many people who twist God's word and are teaching false doctrine. I don't know if they are saved or not but the doctrine is wrong. I have seen many answers from many and I know people enjoy talking about God. I know you do and have many questions just like all of us. Set up more questions so that we can answer. Peace my friend.
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


Alan, I understand how you feel. Don't be surprised at his answer. I have been called that too. Someone's opinion is not necessarally truth. OPINION, "A believe based not on certainty" While TRUTH, "that which is true". His opinion of others is condemnation. His opinion of himself, sinless, perfectness, incapable of sinning. What he is saying is, he needed Christ to be saved, but now without sin he has no use for Him. I am sure he has hurt many others. My answers to you
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


You said it Eloy
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/30/05


Alan, believe and say whatever you choose.
---Eloy on 11/30/05


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Thank you Eloy for telling me I am not a Christian
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/30/05


6. In order to come together they would have to agree in all essentials. Many denominations differ in small stuff but not the essentials. That is why I speak about the Word Faith teachers, and others because it is important for us to Reprove, rebuke false doctrine. (2 Tim. 4:2-3). I have not heard Eloy speak about anything that is against the essentials, though he is bolt in what he believes in and uses different terminology to express his opinion.
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


5 I believe that is what the moderator was trying to say. Now Eloy, he is so bolt to say that no Catholic is saved. I differ from him because Salvation is a personal relationship with Christ. If any indiviuals within the church, and I know many, have been born again, they are saved. They might still attend their church but as far as salvation they are saved. They might differ in discipline of the church but they cannot say or do anything about what they are told. Very sad.
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


4. Now, lets take the doctrine of salvation. The Catholic church differs in salvation doctrine. As you have read Emcee, and Ruben, salvation to them comes from Bapism. A very different essential of the Christian faith. As for Sacraments, they allow anyone that to take of the Lord's Supper, another part of the essential that is different. Now about church discipline, the Catholic church has allowed "willfully" some of the most brutal people in the world without excommunicating them.
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


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3. a church from being recognized as a true church. and third, Church discipline. Though the exercise of church discipline may at times err in the direction of either severity or latitude, it can become so perverted as to no longer be recognized as legitimate. For example, if a church openly and impenitently endorses, practices, or refuses to gross and heinous sin, it fails to exhibit this mark of a true church. Discipline against heresy and gross sin is a necessary task of the church.
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


2. it officially denies an essential tenet of the Christian faith such as the deity of Christ, the Trinity, justification by faith, the Atonement, or other doctrines essential to salvation. The Reformation, for example, was not a stuggle over trifles but over a cardinal doctrine of SALVATION. Second, to deny or defame the Sacraments instituded by Christ is to falsify the church. The profanation of the Lord's Supper or the WILLFUL offering of the sacraments to professed unbelievers would disqualify
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


Alan, I believe what is most important to us is what the church teaches. Historically the marks of a true church have been defined as A. the true teaching of God's Word. B. the use of the sacraments in accordance with their institution. and C. the practie of church discipline. Though churches differ in details of theology and in levels of purity of doctrine, a true church affirms all that is essential to the Christian faith. Likewise, a church is false or apostate when
---Lupe2618 on 11/30/05


Alan, i'm not going to beat the already dead horse. You know what Jesus and the Scripture says about the kind of fruit a Christian can only bear, and the kind of fruit a Sinner can only bear.
---Eloy on 11/30/05


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Eloy ... I was just showing two issues where there are strong opposing views. The fact that we disagree on a particular item of doctrine does not make one of us an idolator.
You must realise that not many here disagree with your belief that a Christian does not sin in any way. They do not say you are not a Christian. I hope you do not say that we are not Christian
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/29/05


Alan, just like in Jesus' day there are those who forbid communion, forbid infants, and forbid marriage, and command O.T. law-keeping, and titheing, and sabbath-keeping and circumcision, and abstaining from eating meats and drinking wine, thereupon Jesus corrected them and said nothing that makes a lie will enter into heaven. Please read Matthew 10:8; Mark 11:15-17; John 2:13-16; Matthew 23:13; Luke 15,16; Galatians 3:10; 4:9-11; 5:1-9; Colossians 2:16; I Timothy 4:3; Revelation 21:7,8,27.
---Eloy on 11/29/05


Eloy ...# 2 Those are the sort of differences I woulod accept within the body of Christ. So, Anglicans accept and practice infant baptism ... Baptists do not and say that baptism should be reserved for believers. Clearly the two could not sit together within one denomination, but again, there is sufficient common ground to allow working together without animosity.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/29/05


Eloy ...# 1 there is one issue which we two have discussed extensively, and we have differtn views.
When I pray the Lord's prayer, I say "Forgive me my trespasses" but you have no need to do so. And on the question of free will and predestination, Lupe and I differ. I do not think those varying perceptions of the one truth make any of the three of us idolators or demon-possessed.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/29/05


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Alan, i must say that what is right for me is also right for all. Now if you mean different styles of true worship, then i will agree with you. But if you mean that just because a church professes Jesus as the Savior, then i have to disagree, because many idolaters and false religions and even the demon-possessed believe in Jesus completely, but they are still not saved because they refuse to be obey him, nor live for him.
---Eloy on 11/29/05


TWO. I do not believe that there will ever come a time when the many different churches that call themselves Christian will unite into one. I do feel that, when possible, we should make the most of those things on which we totally agree but those things on which we totally disagree will always keep us apart and, to some extent, prevent us from joining forces for certain activities. We each attend the church that we believe is the right one.
---emg on 11/29/05


1. In the early 1960s I worked for one of the 3 churches I am about to mention. At that time the Anglican Church was having discussions with both The Roman Catholic Church and the Methodist Church with a view to uniting with them. There was never any suggestion that the Methodist Church wished to unite with The R.C.C. though so why the Anglican Church thought there was a possibility of uniting in 2 entirely opposite directions I could never understand.
---emg on 11/29/05


Ecuminism or oecumenical was adopted by the universal church which all Bishops were entitled to vote would gather from all over the world under the pope to determine interpretation of Doctrines Or laws of the church.this was originally started in AD325 when the first council met to bring out the true teachings of the church as opposed by the heresy of Arius.there have been 20 such councils since then.
---Emcee on 11/28/05


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Elder ... I agree with you ... but would comment that different folk find different enmphases of small-print detail, or different worship patterns, or different organisational structures helpful.
It is impportant to recognise the value of these different "colours" and not to deny the validity of anything that does not fit in with our own exact practice.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


Alan if we have 5 Fundamental Churches that gather together to reach a common goal that is not Ecumenical in the sense that we see today of all denominations and sects gathering together to reach a spiritual agenda. If I join with First Baptist Church or Last Baptist Church our doctrine must be built on the same Fundamentals of the Faith, spoke of in my last post, if we are to reach spiritual goals.
Gathering together with everyone and accepting all doctrines is the danger. Therefore II Cor 6:17.
---Elder on 11/28/05


Eloy ... I have never argued that God's love overlooks sin. All denominations say (as you do personally) that theirs is Jesus Christ. Your perception of what the scriptures say differs from others, and for you it is right.
I do not say you are in error, just that what is right for you is not necessarily right for others.
I'm talking about the detail theology, not the truth that Christ died for us and our faith in this saves us.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


Lupe please read my blog ... I have not advocated uniting the worlds churches. What I see in ecumenism as practiced here is the absense of constant and destructive condmnation of others' viewpoints, and instead a limited cooperation which still allows each to be individual.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


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Alan, God is a holy God, and his love does not accept nor overlook sin, instead his great love addresses it. When our beauty is turned into corruption in his presence, it compells us to address our wrongs and get right with him, else we will remain at odds with him. btw, my denomination is Jesus Christ, and yes this is the only right denomination. God does not judge the denominational religions, but rather the individuals themselves are judged, whether they are righteous are sinuous.
---Eloy on 11/28/05


Brother Alan, I responded to show that uniting the world churches is a very bad idea. Which one's are true bible teaching churches are hard to know. Each one person believes their's is the right one. Its up to you in how serious or how important it is to learn true doctrine. An open heart and through prayer, with the help of God's Word you will see which one's you feel are teaching true doctrine. God see's your need and will lead you to the truth. If not serious, you will be on your own.
---Lupe2618 on 11/28/05


Elder, Lupe & Mod #2 It comes down to the definition ... the implications of your definition alarm me, ... but what I have seen has only been of value.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


Elder, Lupe & Mod #1...I think I havbe not been clear about my expereince of ecumism, which ahs been several mainstream churches, each holding to those fundamentals, working together (but remaining separate) in the locality.
I agree that if we tried to join together, there would be problems of practice and detail.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


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Eloy ... I have read your reply in more detail.
What about love?
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


Eloy ... if NOTHING is trivial, that must mean that the detail differences between the denomiations are vitally important ... and it follows then, since all denominations are in some way different, that ONLY ONE of them is truly Christian.
And that of course is the one that you are in.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/28/05


3. There is no way of knowing which denomination is teaching true doctrine unless you are there to hear and understand their doctrine. It would take a lot of listening plus you yourself have to have the right understanding of doctrine to know the difference. Many are deceived because they don't know doctrine. By studying and comparing what Scripture says to what is taught will give you an answer. The net can help in finding out what a denomination teaches.
---Lupe2618 on 11/28/05


2. The body of Christ or Church is connected in Spirit. For our salvation is spiritual. We might not see the body, but God does and knows His church very well. We are commanded to be alert and watch for false doctrine, separated from the world. If the church that joins together with a true believing church is worldly, then the devil enters to distroy the good church. He is the cause of separation. Any door he sees, he will go in, in the mind of someone, through pride, selfishness, emotions and power,ect.
---Lupe2618a on 11/28/05


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Hello Alan, I believe Elder and Eloy are so correct in the answer. We had three churches unite to form one church. They thought it was a great idea. One big church. Many problems arrived. Each one had a leader so prayer was constant so that we could servive. Well, it didn't. Just think how it would be with a univeral church. It would be just like going back to Catholism. One head leadership and if they are wrong everyone goes down, The true churches would be sacraficed for unity.
---Lupe2618 on 11/28/05


Eloy Peter said he showed the power of God without "cunningly devised fables." So if I reject your explanation based on that where are we?
It is not what we "see" that establishes truth. It is Truth that establishes what we see.
---Elder on 11/28/05


Alan we must seek the Fundamentals of the faith.
A "Fundamental" is something that if removed the Faith falls. The Virgin Birth of Christ is a Fundamental. The Resurrection is another. The way a person is Saved is another as there is only one way to Salvation.
That is why there is such an attack on these Doctrines.
Cond #2-->

Moderator - I am in agreement with Elder's comments.
---Elder on 11/28/05


Cond #2-->
I have grown to love and respect you and most all of your opinions. When I disagree with you and you with me I know there is no malice intended for my spirit corresponds with your spirit. Our love and care for each other is secondary to the Fundamentals of the Faith, for if I reject Scripture Truth it is your duty to reject me.
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 11/28/05


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Cond #3--->
Tongues, Baptism, Church attendance, Tithing, Witnessing is secondary to Fundamentals of the Faith. We should cooperate as much as possible. A Hindu or Mormon is welcome in my Church service. They can't teach Sunday School, be on the Deacon board, join the Church or be in any leadership position. I also cannot join in with them to accomplish Spiritual conversions, goals and results. I could never lead someone to the Lord and allow them to join the Mormon Church.
Cond #4---->
---Elder on 11/28/05


Cond #4---->
To gather together to campaign for the Right to Life or to elect an official to government may be OK in passing but not to establish a Spiritual agenda and propagate Gospel Doctrine. There is only one way to Heaven, one Gospel, one Faith and one Lord.
Cond #5----->
---Elder on 11/28/05


Cond #5----->
The modern "Ecumenical Movement" would have us forget our Fundamental Doctrines that form the foundation to true Christianity and seek "common ground" to bring the world together and then call that Unity and Salvation when indeed it is not.
Cond #5A*****
---Elder on 11/28/05


Cond #5A*****
Unity is only that, unity. Salvation is not unity.
There are many who would have us come "down off the wall" as Nehemiah's "friends" wanted him to do. He was sent an invitation to come have a little talk in the plain of Ono. When he received it he said, "Oh no, I won't gather with the non builders in Ono." Read Neh 6:1-15.
Cond #6------>
---Elder on 11/28/05


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Cond #6------>
It is simple we can't pay the water bill and expect to have electricity just because we paid a Utility bill.
Fellowship with all people, become all things to all people. Stand firm in the Fundamentals of the Faith when doing so and reject all false teaching, doctrines, teaching of error and anything that would drag you away from your wall building.
---Elder on 11/28/05


Alan, nothing is trivial to the Lord. Any church, no matter the denomination, if they have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, then it is a false church. That means if a so-called church does not believe in the supernatural manifestations of the Holy Ghost, ie: heavenly tongues, interpretations of tongues, prophesying, visions, healings, raising the dead, casting out demons, etc. then this so-called church is not of Christ, and from such we are commanded to turn away.
---Eloy on 11/28/05


Eloy ... How are we to judge whether any denomination is part of the body of Christ?
Would you exclude the salvation Army, because they do not practivce the sacraments, or those who say that tongues are essential or those who say they are no longer valid? Or those who deny the place of music in worship?
Thes details seem so trivial besaide the cental faith which is common to all those.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05


Eloy ... it is interesting that you say not all churches are part of the body of Christ. I would agree with you that some are not, but I would suggest that most major churches are. For example, I would say that both Baptist and Anglican are part of the body of Christ here on earth, even though they hold opposing views about infant/adult baptism
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05


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Sorry Mod I had forgotten that you cannot read old blogs Thgis was what I asked "thasnk you for your judgment on ecumenism. Can you say what yopu undertand it to be?

Because here in the UK ... at least at the group of churches in the area where I live, it seems to mean that different denominations still maintain their own detail beliefs, but co-operate in certian areas ... such as help for the needy, distribution of leaflets to the community showing our various service times"

Moderator - If the group of churches is truely Christian, that is good. However, if the group of churches is Christian in name only that is ecumenism. Most churches today are Christian in name only.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05


Moderator ... you have not really answered my questions in my blog of 11/27. Do you think the activities I described there are wrong? Because those are the only things that we do here ecumenically ... we keep our individual beliefs.

Moderator - Would you please word the exact question you have? It makes it so much easier because I can't remember always and have very little time to answer usually. Thanks.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05


So, it seems wrong that say Methodists and Baptists and Anglicans should join together for any purpose?

And Modereator your question "Who is Jesus" is not a valid answer. We all know who our Saviour is. Is not the fact that we accept Him as our Saviour not much more important than than disagreement on infant baptism, or tongues, or day of worship?

Moderator - I wish you were correct that all know who our Saviour is.
---alan8869_of_UK on 11/27/05


Ecumenicalism is wrong, for not all churches are part of Christ's body, and we are commanded to be separate from them. "Be you all not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness? and what concord has Christ with Belial? or what part has he that believes with an infidel? and what agreement has the temple of God with idols? II Corinthians 6:14-18.
---Eloy on 11/27/05


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You know, sometimes it's very confusing. On the one hand, we're told to join together as a band of believers- the true Church- in worshipping the Living God. Yet, when we do, you say it's wrong, and preparing for the Tribulation one-religion world. No wonder people are starting their own churches with attitudes like that.

Moderator - Read Elder's comments below for additional information. Take the information we both presented and research for yourself.
---Cam on 11/27/05


The word Ecumenical comes from the Greek "Oikoumene" which means inhabited earth or inhabitants of the world.
Any activity that "encompasses" the world or the inhabitants of the world can be described as ecumenical.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 11/27/05


Cond #2-->
Ecumenism becomes dangerous when applied to Churches and Christians. To most organizations it is a movement to show all "Christians" are in unity. The modern ecumenical movement is promoted by the World Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Pontifical Council on Ecumenism.
Their purpose is to bring all faiths together into the "Unity of the One and Only Church."
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 11/27/05


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