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Women Pastors And Bishops

Should women be pastors and bishops?

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 ---ralph on 11/29/05
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1Corianthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confussion, buf of peace, as in all churches of the saints. This verse is referring to tongues and having a interpreter. 14:26-28 It could also apply to women. continued
---Ulrika on 2/27/08


2 Peter 3:15:16
And account that the LONGSUFFERING of our Lord is SALVATION; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to WISDOM given to him hath written unto you;

Vs 16
As also in ALL his epistles speaking in them of these things; in which are some things HARD to be UNDERSTOOD, which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE wrest as they do with the other scriptures, UNTO their OWN DESTRUCTION.
---Carla5754 on 6/15/07


VERSE 17
Ye therefore beloved, seeing ye know these things before, Beware lest ye also being led away from your own STEADFASTNESS.

18 But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our LOrd and savior Jesus Christ. To HIM be GLORY both NOW and FOREVER. Amen.

1 Corinth 15:58
Therefore my brethren be ye steadfast UNMOVEABLE always abounding in the work of the lord,for as much as YE know your labor will not be In Vain
---Carla5754 on 6/15/07


Well the answer to that lies in two places; is she in the spirit or not; are the people she is ministering to in the spirit or not. Cause the bible tells us that in the spirit there is no gender, race, creed, or hierarchy. In light of this we know that Jesus left some to be pastors and the office of Bishop is one a person can will himself into by desire. So let the word be the word and reach for spirituallity and not carnality.
---Timothy on 6/14/07


It doesnt matter if it erases the whole earth john if it Goes against God's word. he wipe out who he deems nesessary.Well Noah tried to get people to believe him when build the ark they thought he was nuts. It took him a 120 years to do it and not 1 person other than his sons and their wives. and his wife. all the animals that God told him to get Got on the ark. the Flood destroyed those people WHO DID NOT LISTEN.
---Doug_Fowler on 6/14/07




Leon, you are right... this particular blog has become a "vain contention". Though the question of women in leadership is important, it is not a SALVATION issue. So, I'm laying down my boxing gloves on this one.
---daphn8897 on 1/11/06


There is nothing to indicate the women were positioned in front or to the side. Regardless of the physical position of the women, they were singing responsively, not leading men.

In today's church buildings, if all women were positioned in front of the remaining congregation to read the Bible responsiviely, the congregation reading then the women reading, that still would not constitute 'leading' anyone.
---a_servant on 1/11/06


Ex 15:20 Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her with timbrels and dancing.
21 And Miriam RESPONDED to them, Sing to the Lord, for He has triumphed gloriously and is highly exalted; the horse and his rider He has thrown into the sea. (Amplified)

Perhaps this version of the Bible helps.
---a_servant on 1/11/06


Daphne8897: What boxing gloves? :-) For many this issue is a bare knuckle, anything goes, street fight.

There's nothing wrong with the question. The problem is with how some see it through the almost closed narrow slits of their eyes.

Elder's Bible based comments (1/10/06) should end the fight. But some people just love to fight, right or wrong, no matter what,
---Leon on 1/11/06


a_servant, you keep changing the rules, quoting scripture only to prove your point, but not in full context. Miriam could sing out IN FRONT of the congregation, but that's not leading...? Sounds to me like she and the other ladies were leading the congregation - and yet they were under the authority of Moses. Was Moses breaking God's rules by having the women IN FRONT of the congretation singing in a way that brought (lead) others to worship? And, didn't you say it was common practice?
---daphn8897 on 1/11/06




Isn't it interesting how mainly women say "yes, a woman should be a pastor or bishop?lol
It is not God's intention for a woman to govern men, that is why He says in His Word that a woman is to be silent in His home and should not govern men.
A woman teaching Sunday school is fine, but to hold the high office of the church? I say No.
---Carla on 1/11/06


Yes, Dory, I certainly am....thanks. To those who question whether Paul adds his own thoughts to his writings, look at 1 Corinth.7:12...Paul specifically says "I say this..not God".
---Ann5758 on 1/10/06


Ex 15:1-19 Moses and all of Israel was singing praises to God.

Ex 15:20-27 Miriam and the women separated from the other singers and sang back to the remaining Israelites.

This was a commmon practice after a victory in battle.

Miriam was not leading men.
---a_servant on 1/10/06


Steve "Preaching" is the forth telling of what God has said.
EVERYONE is called to tell forth His Word, but not everyone is called to be a Pulpit forth teller (Preacher/Pastor) not even all men.
Women cannot usurp authority where a man has no authority.
At a traffic stop, a female Police Officer can tell a man to step out of his car because he has no authority to say no.
A female Professor can teach a man in College.
A woman has no authority to establish church doctrine.
---Elder on 1/10/06


1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches . . .
35 . . . for IT IS A SHAME FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH.
(sorry - cannot underline)

Shame is the reason to be silent, not sitting apart.

Sunday school is not normally conducted down the street in a park. The Holy Spirit made no exception permitting women to go another part of the church to speak to children.

ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God. Women should stop acting as though God did not say this.
---a_servant on 1/10/06


Alan, what I meant was not that we should take them off and go at it bare fisted, but that we should lay them down - and be kinder and less sarcastic in how we converse with each other.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


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Daphne "maybe folks would take off their boxing gloves" That would make the discussion even more bloodthirsty!
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/10/06


steve, you will marry a "prophetess" if you marry a woman who is saved.. "and your daughters will prophesy" You should want a woman who will "preach" the Gospel to herself and your children - and even you as your help meet - every day. Preaching doesn't mean she's usurping athority - it means proclaiming the Word. So, if you don't want what you say you don't want, then you will have to marry a woman who doesn't and never will know Christ.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


, elder, you certainly have a wonderful marriage. i never found a wife, but i won't ever marry a preacher or prophetess.
---steve on 1/10/06


Rita, Rita. That's cold. All the questions are pretty much endless topics. We are just having a healthy discussion. And if you are so concerned about lost souls, then cut the computer off and hit the streets yourself. Don't judge the books by their covers.
---Fred_S. on 1/10/06


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Ann, are you looking for 1 Corinthians 7:12?
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Where is there any glory to God in all this bickering. O.K. this debate can go on and on but is it getting anywhere, no, and out there there are souls dying and going to a Christless eternity.
People of God, if that is what you really are, then WAKE UP and speak of what really is in the mind and the heart of God, and that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and your neighbour as yourself.
---Rita_Brant on 1/10/06


So, servant, a woman should not teach a Sunday School class because that would be teaching other people's children?
---Ann5758 on 1/10/06


I can't find it now, and I can't quote it exactly, but there is a verse where Paul says to the effect of "I'm saying this, not God." Maybe someone can help me there.
---Ann5758 on 1/10/06


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Leon, Maybe we could narrow the question a bit - and maybe folks would take off their boxing gloves. Perhaps it could be asked, "Should women pursue/actively seek the office of pastor or bishop?" I think we'd find far more agreement and unity than has previously been displayed.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


".
In I Corinthians 14:34-35 Paul was telling "the Church in Corinth" to have the women wait until they got home to ask their husband questions. Reason being is that the men and women sat on different sides of the church. So if a women asked her husband a question while he was on the other side of the room it would cause a disturbance.
---Rickey on 1/10/06


Yes, they should. If God chooses them to then they should. They should be submissive to their husband. Meaning he is still the head of the house, but she is still walking in purpose. Ephesians 4:11 lists the 5-fold ministry, but it doesn't say "some men" or "some women"; it says "some".
---Rickey on 1/10/06


a_servant, you have missed the point. Adam knew that he was to submit to God, but chose to "hearken" to Eve. That was the sin - choosing something/someone over God. It's called idolatry. So, Adam committed idolatry by choosing to do what Eve suggested instead of the known will of God. His penalty would have been the same if he'd been the one in direct conversation with serpent - Adam knew the truth and chose a lie instead. He was not deceived - he lead - the whole of the human race into sin.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


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Elder, you are fortunate indeed. Some of us have been handed grenades with the pins already pulled.
---ralph7477 on 1/10/06


Phil1:15-18 Some preach Christ of envy and strife. Sme of good will. Some of contention, not sincerely, the other of love. But in every way (maybe even by women) Christ is preached and therein do I rejoice and will greatly rejoice.
---john on 1/10/06


Subject: Should women be 'PASTORS" & 'BISHOPS"?
Ann5758 & Alan8869_of_UK. Ref your comments 1/9/06. Are either of you saying that the "APOSTLE" Paul spoke apart from (1 Tim. 2:11-14) the unction (anointing) of the Holy Spirit? If so, don't you think God would've openly rebuked Paul, in the Bible, for going against His will? Paul had a major influence & impact on the Church. Shouldn't God have cleaned up Paul's misleading mess(age) so we wouldn't have to debate the issue today?
---Leon on 1/10/06


Gog pouring out his Spirit on women and children to see visions and to prophesy, does not mean they are to manifest these in the congregational worship setting.

The primary reason for coming together every 7 days is to worship, not to preach, not to prophesy. See Chronicles, Ezra, & Nehemiah to see how worship is to be conducted.

Scripture is what we are to follow, not tradition or what is popular. We are servants, not leaders of God.
---a_servant on 1/10/06


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"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife".

1 This is Scripture
2 God was not rebuking Adam for hearing counsel from his wife, but for FOLLOWING HER COUNSEL THAT LED HIM TO DISOBEY GOD. Contrast Job who did not follow his wife's counsel to curse God.
3 Adam submitted to Eve (& through her, Satan), instead of God.
(sorry - cannot underline)
---a_servant on 1/10/06


Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands

Pr 31:1 . . . the prophecy that his mother taught him.

God has stipulated that older women should teach younger women these things, & has provided that mothers teach their own children, not the children of others, not men.
---a_servant on 1/10/06


a_servant, Yes, Miriam lead the women, and they all went out in worship... they went out before... in front of ... in other words, they lead - the whole congregation - which included men - and they did so without usurping authority - because they were under authority. If you are submitted and under authority, you cannot usurp it.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


#1..GOD is the HEAD of the church (not the pastor. just WORLDLY local assemblies). Thusly women pastors do not overstep GOD's authority.
#2..Pastors are to be HIS (GOD'S) sheppards and to tend (serve) HIS (GOD's) flock!
#3..Sheppard's (Pastor's) job is to PROTECT (from evil), FEED (GOD's WORD).
The function of the Pastor is to be the guardian of the spiritual WELFARE of the flock (congregation) in the church.
---Fred_S. on 1/10/06


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Yes, Elder - I think all the ladies here would say "THANK YOU." Thank you for not doing what so many here seem to think is okay.. that is blaming woman for what was ultimately man's responsibility. Whenever a man points his finger and says, "its this woman You gave me.." he not only abdicates his role of leader and continues to fuel an ungodly fire of which Satan was/is the author, he accuses God Himself.
---daphn8897 on 1/10/06


That's the way we have shaped our marriage Elder. Thanks for putting it into words for all of us who have that kind of marriage. And for putting in perspective for those who NEED to have that kind of marriage!
---NVBarbara on 1/10/06


WOW! what a fantastic statement Elder!!!!
Man...you fired the guns that time!
---Fred_S. on 1/10/06


It is not that Adam listened to his wife but that he chose her input over God's instruction and revealed will.
I listen to my wife for she has wisdom. The final decision on matters always falls on me.
I allow no one to attack her on matters of decision we have come together on.
It is simple, I fire the guns at the enemy she passes the ammo and supplies for us to win the war. We are a Team!
---Elder on 1/10/06


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A servant "Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife" That surely means that Adam had listened to his wife when she spoke on a particular issue "let's eat this fruit"?
I don't see that it men should not listen to women on other matters, such as for example "Dear, can you stop your bible study & get to me the hospital, the baby is on it's way" or "Please, you will have to fetch the children from school today, because I am ill"
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/10/06


A servant, I imagine that most of the pastors wives reading your comments (and numerous othe women in our churches) will be pleased to see that you have given them the green light to go home and put their feet up.
---emg on 1/10/06


Phil 1:15-18 Some preach Christ of envy and strife. Some of good will. Some of contention, not sincerily. The other of love. But in every way Christ is preached and therein do I rejoice and will rejoice.
---john on 1/10/06


A woman cannot lead a choir? A woman cannot teach children? Come on, people...let's get real here!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but who taught Timothy? His mother & his grandmother, that's who, and these women were acknowledged by Paul as women of faith.
---Ann5758 on 1/9/06


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God's reason for punishing Adam:

Gen 3:17 . . . Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife . . .
---a_servant on 1/9/06


Exodus 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and ALL THE WOMEN went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
(sorry - could not underline)

She led the women only.

It is not possible for women to lead men in a non-usurping way. 1Cor 11:3 . . . the head of the woman is the man . . .

Leading is exercising authority. Exercising authority over whom God says is your head, over whom God has given His authority over you, is usurping.
---a_servant on 1/9/06


The church is impotent because it does not obey God, thus it does not love God.

Jn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me . . .

The people trust their own conclusions rather than trust God's Word & His integrity.

When that happens, God withdraws, thus church impotence.

2Chr 15:2 . . . The LORD is with you . . . but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Pr 8:17 I love them that love me . . .
---a_servant on 1/9/06


A servant: So what it says in the bible about older woman teaching the younger women is wrong according to you? and when God himself said that he will pour out his spirit on woman and children to see visions and prophecy God lied according to you? If woman are supposed to be silent according to you, then how do you suppose we lead sinners to Christ? How would we witness to others? I sing in church, I pray for others, I witness to others. God called woman to prophecy, but to you God was in the wrong.
---Rebecca_D on 1/9/06


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a_servant, letting a woman lead in a non-usurping manner was not Adam's downfall. His downfall was direct and deliberate disobedience to God's word. She was deceived, yes, but he was not. He deliberately disobeyed God's word and then lied to God about it, blaming it on Eve - whom he was supposed to be leading.
---daphn8897 on 1/9/06


a_servant, Yes women can lead in congregational worship and direct a choir (assuming she is submitted to pastoral leadership) - what do you think Miriam did? She LEAD the nation in worhship with her tamborine. God did NOT say this was wrong. And, the reason the church is "impotent" is because people live as practical atheists - not submitting their daily lives to Jesus. They find the momentary pleasure of sin more appealing than the everlasting.
---daphn9987 on 1/9/06


Ann ... I agree with all you say. Paul was expressing his own personal rule for the churches of which he had some responsibility in those places at that time.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/9/06


Women cannot be in congregational leadership. She cannot direct a choir, worship team; she cannot lead men. She is to remain silent outside of worship & witnessing. She cannot teach children for she can only teach according to Titus 2.

The Pastor, husband, father cannot countermand God. That is usurping His authority. This is what got Adam in trouble.

I know all of this happens. Now you see how far we are from what God wants, & why the Church is so impotent.
---a_servant on 1/9/06


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But you notice, Doug, that in that scripture, Paul is saying "I do not allow..." He is not saying "God does not allow..." Paul was saying what he allows or does not allow in his own congregations. Nowhere does scripture say that God does not allow a woman to pastor a congregation. If not for the women of old of my denomination, it would not be the world-wide organization that it is. We "ordain" women, who have as much authority as the men. God loves and blesses their service.
---Ann5758 on 1/9/06


ok the question has been answered WOMAN CANNOT BE PASTORS.
---Doug_Fowler on 1/9/06


PART 2 1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer NOT a WOMAN to TEACH, NOR USURP AUTHORITY over A MAN, But TO be in SILENCE. NOT to teach. what part of not to teach do you understand. You see God gave theses words not me. Oh Ramon how am I. twisting only the Devil twists words.
Silence usualy mean to be quiet. Not open your mouth. The Reason MEN CAN'T run household Women can not keep the kids in line to busy trying to do a man's job popping off at the mouth. Ramon you are busy trying usurp GOD'S WORD.
---Doug_Fowler on 1/9/06


Doug, can you not make your point without attacking? You've done so to me, Ramon, and others. What is the purpose of name calling? It certainly does not glorify God. It seems to me it more glorifies the "accuser of the brethren". I hope that is not your heart.
---daphn8897 on 1/9/06


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Doug, as I've been reading more of your responses to others and it appears you are confusing Eve being deceived BY THE SERPENT with Eve being a deceiver. God does not make that distinction. His word says she was lied to. It does not say she was the liar.
---daphn8897 on 1/9/06


God_forbid, Women certainly can serve in leadership - the issue is whether or not she is usurping authority. I also do NOT mean that she should serve as a bishop, pastor, or elder. I do believe she can direct a choir, lead worship, teach in children's ministry. She is not usurping if she is under the authority of her Pastor and/or her husband. Example - a pastor certainly can ask a woman to give her testimony or share about something from the pulpit if he believes it will edify the body.
---daphn8897 on 1/9/06


Doug, now you are mixing the consequence of before the fall and after the fall. It was Adam's fault, at least as far as God was concerned - otherwise why would God say the sin entered the world through ONE MAN? He did not say one woman or a man and a woman, He said ONE MAN. I certainly agree that Eve's actions lead to a consequence for women, but ultimately, since Adam was the head of Eve, he was held responsible.
---daphn8897 on 1/9/06


Ramon,John, let me make this simple
1 tim 2:10 BUT (which BECOMETH WOMEN PROFESSING GODLINESS) Do you know what professing godliness means?
11 Let the WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE WITH ALL SUBJECTION. Do you know what SILENCE means?
Do you know all subjection means? Part 1
---Doug_Fowler on 1/9/06


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I believe from what it says in scripture, women are not teach men in church, and they are not to be pastors. This is because Eve was deceived. They can teach other women and children in church. God has order planned for the family and the church. I don't know if Bible says anything about a woman being a leader of a nation. It does make me wonder if she is not suppose to rule the husband or pastor a church, is it a good idea for her to be in charge of a nation? Just a thought.
---Ulrika on 1/8/06


Ulrika's comment about not all women being Christian made me think that neither are all men. I don't know what proportion of women and men in the US are Christian? In the UK, I would say that far more women than men are Christians. In the churches that I see, about 75% of the congregation are women. I'm not sure what this adds to the discussion about demale pastors and bishops, but it is a fact that means there are fewer men available to be leaders.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/8/06


Dear Dough. You believe that a women cant teach the word of God right? Just answer me this question, YOU WRONG. So stop twisting Scriptures around. WOMEN CAN TEACH THE WORD OF GOD, THE BIBLE ONLY FORBINS WOMEN BEING PASTORS.
---Ramon on 1/8/06


Dear Dough: Jesus instructed all of us to spread the good news!All of us are witnesses to Christ and should tell others about Him.Contrary to custom,Jesus allowed women to be deeply involved in his ministry. The gospels record that there were women who traveled with him to assist in his work.The gospels do not tell us all of their names,but included in this group of women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna,Susanna,and Mary the mother of James and Joseph (Lk. 8:1-3 & Matt. 27:55-56).
---Ramon on 1/8/06


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Queen Esther in the book of Ester, believed in God. She risked her life to save the Jews from Hamman.

This does not mean all women believe in God, and will seek his will, and wise counsel from men. For that reason I am careful who I wote for, man or woman.

Anyway, the subject of the blog is, should women be pastors and bishops? According to scipture, no.
---Ulrika on 1/8/06


John ... you are quite right ... but to follow what some say here, women should have no rights in society, nor place in any family or society decision making. Trouble is they blame society's ills on the fact that women have too much power, whereas the truth is that women are allowed too little power, and the men muck things up.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/8/06


Except a "MAN" be born again "HE" cannnot see the kingdom of God. You want to take this literally or contextually? If you take this literally then you exclude women. Just like some do in 1Tim.3.
---john on 1/8/06


No women shouldn't go over mans authority in those fields. God shows whom is to take charge, but however a woman can teach other women ,younger women.. like myself I go out in service (fieldministry) & we speak to other women, if 1 of the calls is a man learning then the brother goes along& conducts the biblestudy. As far as in the congregation, we have elders & brothers conducting. Nowhere does a woman take over.
---canda3996 on 1/7/06


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Dear Dough. What point are trying to make. You say scripture passage and then dont explain nothing. Just telling Scripture passages does not help, you need to explan it too.
---Ramon on 1/7/06


Ramon you don't sound like the women you sound like someone else. Genesis 3:3 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had made and he said, unto the woman yea, hath GOD said, YE shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 4 and the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall surely NOT die. a lie
---Doug_Fowler on 1/7/06


2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved UNTO GOD, a WORKMAN that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the WORD of TRUTH. Ramon you are blind i need not to prove anything to you as it states here you keep skipping around GODS WORD. IT SAYS WHAT MEANS AND MEANS WHAT IT SAYS. HUSBAND MEANS MAN. WIFE MEANS WOMAN. Is that out of context.
---Doug_Fowler on 1/7/06


I Timothy Chapter 3.We see here that a man in this role must be the husband of one wife. This clearly disqualifies any woman from functioning in this role. We also see the reason for God making this distinction in verse 5. A candidate for the pastoral office must first prove himself by demonstrating the ability to lead his household. Since we know that the man is the head of his family, this again eliminates the possibility of women serving as pastors
---Ramon on 1/7/06


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1Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Moderator, does that include blogging?

Moderator - No way - blogging is for everyone.
---Ulrika on 1/7/06


The qualifications of a pastor are clearly delineated in I Timothy Chapter 3. Specifically, I Timothy 3:2-4 states, "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity"
---Ramon on 1/7/06


DearDoug_Fowler: DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ OR ARE TAKING CLASSES THAT ARE TEACHINGS YOU HOW TO READ? You take Scripture out-of-contex and twist them around. Women can teach the word of God. They cant however be pastors, etc. I never said Men came out of women. Here you putting words in my month. Please brother before posting your thoughts, THINK BEFORE YOU DO. The Bible never forbids a woman to assume political or civic leadership. It is only church hierarchy that is addressed in the scriptures.
---Ramon on 1/7/06


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