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Are Some Christians Wicked

After reading 2 CHRONICELES 7:14 would you say some Christians have wicked ways? comments

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2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what MarkV is totally BLIND TO. This is the Gospel according th the Mystery that was HIDDEN but now revealed. WE TODAY are and have Christ IN US, and teh Holy Spirit IN US Sanctifying us. This did not happen in the OT. This is what God Forordained US FOR so WE His Church can share in His Glory!
---kathr4453 on 6/11/12

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

So, are you saying that your defending of the Word is not the same as defending God?
---blogger8980 on 6/11/12

Blogger89, I'm not defending God but His Word. You call what I write false but it is very clear.
First, look at ( Luke 19:10) it does not say that Christ came to seek and to save all the lost. Of course it does not. Two thirds of human history had already run its course before Jesus was born. Half the human race was already in hell when He entered Bethlehem's manger. Christ came here to carry into effect God's sovereign purpose of election, to savy people already His (Matt. 1:21) by covenant settelment. There are a people whom God hath "from the beginning chosen unto salvation (2 Thess. 2:13). Yes, it is simple if a person wants to know the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/12

I have never known God to be one who needed defended. Doctrines, however, are defended adamantly....and the more false they are, the more words necessary to convince. Real grace being imparted through the spoken word doesn't require so much explanation.
---blogger8980 on 6/10/12

MarkV, God used BOTH Isaac and Jacob...( YOU ASSUMED I MEANT ISHMAEL...BUT If you read ALL in it's entirety you will again see I said Ishmael was not God's choice to be His People Israel.

THIS is what is wrong with you MarkV, not only with others here on line but God's Word fail to READ in it's entirety and LOOK for opportunities to twist.

I'm DONE with you here markv....always looking for some twist/loophole to argue and argue and argue.

GROW UP!! I already told you what I said and meant so DEAL WITH IT!

I'll bet anything teachers really had a hard time with you in school...I bet you were a real pain in the neck!
---kathr4453 on 6/10/12

Kathr, you contradicted yourself, you first said,

"Yet Paul uses both as God's choice to be HIS PEOPLE Israel."

Both as God's choice to be His people Israel. "Both" you say.
Then you said,

" He just wasn't God's choice for His earthly People Israel."
First, they both were, later Ishmael wasn't God's choice.

I believe I read it correctly. Look, your problem is not with me, for giving you the Truth, your problem with me is that I tell you the Truth and it really bothers you so much. You are not willing to know the Truth but when God is ready to open your mind, His word says,
"Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power" (Ps. 110:3).
---Mark_V. on 6/10/12

Then you contradict yourself with the next two statements about Ishmael, first he was of Israel and on the next he wasn't. Make up your mind.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/12

MarkV, you have a problem reading and comprehending. I never said Ishmael was Israel.

I said in conclusion God had MERCY on both Ishmael and Hagar EVEN THOUGH Ishmael was not God's Choice to be the people of Israel or inherit the blessings re: LAND!

God used both Isaac and Jacob for that purpose fulfilling the promise to Abraham...again please read Genesis 27-28, Isaac's blessing on Jacob. Isaac still blessed Esau, and confirmed that he would SERVE his brother.....

No one SERVES YOU MarkV....
---kathr4453 on 6/9/12

Kathr, you argue against Scripture, you say,

Sorry MarkV, that is presumptuous of you to say that. God Clearly said, " neither having done any good or evil"
They had not done any good or evil because "for the children not yet being born" that the purpose of God according to election might stand.
Then you said,
""....same with Ishmael...God didn't say He hated Ishmael did he?"

God did not say He hated Ishmael, only that he was not of the Promise. So he was not of the elect. Then you contradict yourself with the next two statements about Ishmael, first he was of Israel and on the next he wasn't. Make up your mind.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/12

"Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated" The same holds true of satan. God who is Omniscient, knew he would sin if He created him, yet He still created him. God had a purpose for satan and a purpose for Esau.
---Mark_V. on 6/8/12

Sorry MarkV, that is presumptuous of you to say that. God Clearly said, " neither having done any good or evil"....same with Ishmael...God didn't say He hated Ishmael did he?

Yet Paul uses both as God's choice to be HIS PEOPLE Israel.

God blessed Ishmael and even had Mercy on Ishmael and Hagar. He just wasn't God's choice for His earthly People Israel.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/12

Kathr, I was talking of my answers on this blog. I've talked about a lot of Scripture on all blogs.
You make a good point. God did make a promise to Sarah (Gen. 18:10) And Paul spoke of that in (Rom. 9:9-13) when he said,
"And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac, for the children not yet being born, nor done any good or evil, "that the purpose of God according to election might stand" not of works but of Him who calls, it was said to her, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated" The same holds true of satan. God who is Omniscient, knew he would sin if He created him, yet He still created him. God had a purpose for satan and a purpose for Esau.
---Mark_V. on 6/8/12

You've never mentioned Jacob or use Romans 9 EVER???

Jacob I Loved Esau I hated?? Never MarkV?

Seems the banannas are all on your split!

Do you want a cherry to go on top? Maybe some NUTS TOO!
---kathr4453 on 6/7/12

Kathr, I really don't know what you are talking about. You must be going bananas. Where did you see me say:

"So why do you keep insisting you are elect like Jacob,"

I have not mentioned Jacob one time. I mention the difference between election of a nation over the other nations, and the election of people unto salvation. And the elect have to go through Jesus Christ for He is the only way into heaven. You are stuck with the Old Testament, with Israel because you say you are a Jew. Maybe you are afraid you will find out you are a descendant of Abraham through the flesh. They are not of the promise. Remember, only if you believe by faith that Jesus is the eternal begotten Son of God, can you be saved. No other way.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/12

MarkV, I don't know what you are babbeling about or why you go in circles around the question. It's because of your pride you make up statements having nothing to do with the discussion.

You do not understand JACOB was not Elect Israel was. And if you read the blessings Isaac gave to Jacob, it says nothing at all about personal salvation.
You are correct, In Isaac will thy seed be CALLED.

So why do you keep insisting you are elect like Jacob, when Jacob was never said to be the Elect?

I bet you have NEVER read Genesis 27-28 have you.. Of coarse you haven't.
---kathr4453 on 6/6/12

Kathr, you cannot tease anything out of me. The Truth is Christ and anyone who is not saved by Grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, is not going into heaven. No Jews, or Gentiles. While eloy has three different kinds of people going to heaven, none of those will make faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I hope you get it.
Paul wrote,
"Now to Abraham and his "Seed" were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds' as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).
---Mark_V. on 6/6/12

Therefore God could not have chosen both Jacob=Israel and Esau=Edom to bring in the Messiah.

You're starting to get it, but it still needs to sink in.

It does take some work though to tease the truth out of you.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Right MarkV there is only one way ..through Jesus Christ. Not Allah, or Buddah or National Election or anyone or anything else.

No one is arguing that point.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/12

\\No. The issue today is that there are a lot of people going around calling themself a Christian, but in truth they have no Christ in them\\

Eloy is a good example because he is sinuous.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/4/12

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No. The issue today is that there are a lot of people going around calling themself a Christian, but in truth they have no Christ in them. There are even some people whom wear a cross or other Christian jewelry and think that makes them a Christian. Just upon this site, based upon the words posted, I could post all posters into two separate groups: the antiChrist and antiChristians, and the proChrist and proChristians. For scripture is clear, one whom merely "says" they are in fellowship with Christ, but their "works" show the opposite, that they are a liar, because the life of Christian will also back up the Christian's profession of faith.
---Eloy on 6/4/12

kathr, you need to stop thinking in the box. you can put any passage out there and say what you want concerning any tribe in Israel.
"The Truth is, there is only one way into heaven, through Jesus Christ our Lord" He is the way the Truth and the life. It matters not if you are from Africa, South America, Israel, Russia, etc, only One way, Through Christ. Period. No two groups, but One Body in Christ. The Lord knows who are His.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/12

Great, you said the Nation Israel was elect to bring in the messiah, and were not all chosen to salvation.

So you agree election does not insure salvation.

That's all I wanted you to understand.

Jacob was that vessel of which Israel, Jacobs personal physical descendents were God's elect to bring in the Messiah.

Therefore God could not have chosen both Jacob=Israel and Esau=Edom to bring in the Messiah.

You're starting to get it, but it still needs to sink in.

It does take some work though to tease the truth out of you.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Kathr, you are confused or just not thinking or something.
Election means to be chosen by God for a purpose. The elect (individuals) of God are those chosen from the foundation of the world to salvation, to be adopted, to be justified to be glorified. They were predestine. The election of Israel was also chosen, to be the nation God was going to use to bring the gospel through and later the Messiah. They were not all chosen to salvation. They were the nation chosen from all the other nations. Only those individuals who are of faith no matter from where you are from are those who will be saved by God's grace through faith. Again, only one group is the Bride of Christ, the Church. And it is made up of all believers.
---Mark_V. on 6/3/12

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MarkV, no one is questioning that Jesus is the Only way to Heaven. From Adam & Eve..Abel's faith in the comming messiah, to Us today, to those after us...yes it's ALL through Jesus Christ.

But, that was not the question OR my Question.

If you don't understand the question, how is it you do know the difference that 2 Chronicles 7:14 makes a distinction between wiched ISRAEL who was God's Elect, and stating no Christian is wicked.

You are able to make that distinction....but you just can't give an intelligent educated asnwer as to WHY!

The "God can do anything He wants" CANNED answer should also apply to those speaking in tongues today, by your standards...why argue the point?
---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Abel's FAITH is in the coming redeemer, and Abel's FAITH when Abel presented an acceptable sacrifice acceptable to God wherefore Abel AND HIS SACRIFICE through that found FAVOR in God's eyes, whereas Cain's offering did not.

So we do not see the word ELECTION here or God saying that Abel was chosen before he was born having done neither good or evil.

IT IS YOU MarkV who teaches there is ANOTHER WAY to heaven, and one not through faith in the finished works of Christ at all.

If your theory is correct, ALL Jacob/Israel are elect/saved regardless of sin, and no need for YOU to be saved at all.

The word ELECTION doesn't even come up until Israel is formed to begin with. ISRAEL MINE ELECT, was birthed through Jacob.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

The NATION ISRAEL was God's ELECT. Is Once Elect ALWAYS Elect? ..that is if election means salvation here.

Why was Abraham never called God's Elect? or Jacob for that matter. Is it because election has nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL salvation?

---kathr4453 on 6/3/12

Kathr, you don't know what your saying. Only one way into heaven, through Jesus Christ. No other way, Zero. Those descendants of Abraham in flesh only are not of the promise. John the Baptist cleared that up. Those Pharisees and Sudduces didn't have real faith like Abraham did, yet they claimed to be his children. John the Baptist exposed this delusion, "Don't think that" he thundered. John then laid the axe to the root of the trees by saying that if they didn't bear "good fruit" through faith in God like Abraham did, they would be "cut down and thrown into the fire" (Matt 3:10). Clearly natural lineage alone is not enough. Without faith and a spiritual connection with the Almighty, those Jews were doomed.
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12

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MarkV, Israel was CHOSEN, God's Elect...all of Israel MarkV, yet we see not all israel is saved.

Your answer simply does not answer these questions. If you really understood the question, you would then understand all of Romans 9-11.

If some of the branches were borken off so tht YOU a Gentile could be grafted in...why was it necessarey in the first place to break off any branches to Graft YOU IN?

Again, don't bother answering your same ol same ol lame answer.

Many here already KNOW the answer, because they are more grounded in Scripture.

God called ISRAEL His Elect. I don't see anywhere He called Jacob the person His elect. Israel includes all 12 tribes, and all their descendents.
---kathr4453 on 6/2/12

Kathr, my answers are not lame, your questions are. "If God did this, or if God did that, what would it be" you say. You want to get into the mind of God and cannot even understand who God is in the first place. Don't you realize those He chose from the foundation of the world, were chosen " according to the good pleasure of His will?" (Eph. 1:5) "to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved" Which refers to the divine grace (undeserved love and favor) that has made it possible for sinners to be accepted by God through the substitutionary death and imputed righteousness provide by Jesus Christ "The Beloved" (Matt. 3:17: Col. 1:13).
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12

I see by your answer you still don't understand.

Think about this, God renamed Jacob ISRAEL. Now if God has chosen Both, wha would God have renamed Esau?? And How would Esau have fit into God's plan??? Two Israels??? NO Israel? An Israel chosen from Billy Bob, a neighbor of Isaacs?

Your answers are lame, and any hard question that would cause you to think through things would never be thought through if your answer is always...God can do anything He wants.

Anyone can teach any false doctrine and use that as an excuse to teach and believe anything.
---kathr4453 on 6/2/12

Kathr, I don't know what you are trying to do.

1. "If God wanted, could He have Chosen both Jacob and Esau?" As God He could have chosen both, or neither. He is God after all.
2. "If yes, Why, if No, Why?" Because He is God.
3. "Does God choose between..." No, God's chosen are from before the foundation of the world.
4. "Again, was God choosing SALVATION in Rebecca's womb, or the next in line for SERVICE, FULFILLING the promises to Abraham?" God's plan was from before the foundation of the world. He knows those who are His.
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,..." (Rom. 8:29)
---Mark_V. on 6/2/12

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Here is a question for you think it through before answering.

If God wanted, could He have Chosen both Jacob and Esau?

If yes, Why, if No, Why?

Does God choose between twins today in any woman's womb, selecting one and not the other? Is it always either or?

Again, was God choosing SALVATION in Rebecca's womb, or the next in line for SERVICE, FULFILLING the promises to Abraham?

It is also prophetic in Genesis 49 that the messiah would come through the line of Judah. Does that mean all remaining 11 tribes are not elect?
---kathr4453 on 6/1/12

There is only one way into heaven, through the Person of Jesus Christ. There is no other way. Every believer who has ever believed or will believe is part of the body of Christ. The body of Christ is the Church. There are no two brides, only One. And only One Jesus Christ who is the head of the body. He is not the head of two bodies.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/12

I BELIEVE the Church is totally separate from the promises given to the NATION ISRAEL.

I believe the Church will be raptured BEFORE God turns to Israel.

I believe the 144,000 are those who are God's elect JEWS on earth during that time, because the Church is gone, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom...( Acts 1: 6-11, Zechariah 12-14) the Kingdom to be restored to Israel. The remaining gentiles saved on earth who do not come against Israel are spoken of in Acts as the RESIDUE of Men.

The CHURCH does not have to worry about taking any FLIGHT on the Sabbath, because it's not about the Church. This time is about ISRAEL. Jesus will come, and REIGN 1000 years and His Church/Body will be with Him at that time.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/12

Kathr, here is something that will help you,
1. God made promises to Abraham and his Seed (Gal. 3:16).
2. Isaac was born when Abraham had faith in God's promise (Rom. 4:19-21).
3. Isaac represents everyone who believes in Jesus and who receives the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith (Gal. 3:14: 4:22-28).
4. All who have faith in Christ, Jews-Gentiles are counted as the seed" (Gal. 3:14: Rom. 9:8: 10:12).
5. This seed is "the Israel of God" in Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:16,29: 6:14-16).
6. God will fufill His promises to this Israel (Gal. 3:29).
7. Thus God's promises to Israel have not been made of "no effect," even though some Jewish people don't believe in their own Messiah (Rom. 9:6-8).
---Mark_V. on 5/8/12

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Kathr, you have no clue about the 144,000. As John was 'in the spirit' even so you must be 'in the spirit" in order to understand the truth about Mount Zion and the 144,000. Paul told believers "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven" (Heb. 12:22-23). There is a heavenly Mount Zion on which the New Jerusalem sits. It is the home of the Church. And this is were John saw the 144.000. James wrote "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (James 1:1). Who were the twelve tribes? James called them, "my brethren" They were part of the church.
---Mark_V. on 5/6/12

"And unless the Lord had shortened those days, ---(Mark 13:20). ---

Exactly MarkV, and those ELECT are the 144,000 that will be here during the Great Tribulation period. THOSE DAYS have not yet happened.

Zechariah 12-14, when this takes place only 1/3 of individual Jews will be saved.

The CHURCH be raptured with Christ before the Trib, and return with Christ. When He comes back He's coming with all His Saints.

Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
---kathr4453 on 5/6/12

MarkV, the HOPE of my calling is not to face God's disciplinary measures towards Israel during the Great Tribulation. The HOPE of my calling is that I am a member of Christ's Body who will return with Christ and reign and rule with Him during the 1000 year Reign.

Why would you look forward to God's chastisement? The Great Tribulation is the WRATH of GOD's, not Satan's.

The Hope of our calling too MarkV is that we are going to meet Christ in the Clouds, and forever be with Him. NOT await His WRATH. Don't you get it, WE HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM THE WRATH TO COME.

What wrath do you suppose this is referring to? THE DAY of His wrath.

Zechariah 12-14...IN THAT DAY .

Don't put your eggs in THEIR BASKET.
---kathr4453 on 5/6/12


MarkV, these are those who were broken off Romans 11 so that YOU could be grafted in. God is able to graft THEM in again, and will.

So let God deal with Israel the Nation as He has planned, and YOU obey God's word in Romans 11 not to be ignorant of these things or arrogant or High Minded against God's plans for Israel. If perchance you are, just recall Zechariah 12-14 again of those GENTILES like yourself still left here on earth who are arrogant against Israel and God's dealing with them.

SEEK those things that are ABOVE markv.
---kathr4453 on 5/6/12

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Kathr, you did it, spoke the Truth.
Election means chosen or called,
Israel was a chosen nation above all others. It was a nation God chose for Christ to come through. And used the nation as an example for all of us. The "elect" were chosen individuals from before the foundation of the world for salvation, speaking of individuals.
"And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved, but for the elects sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days" (Mark 13:20).
"Having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which "He has called you," what are the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saint's.." (Eph. 1:18).
---Mark_V. on 5/5/12

trey, as I said before, 2 Chron 7:14 was speaking to a NATION, THE NATION of God's ELECT people through the MOSAEC Covenant.

However I also stated there were individuals who were faithful. God was not addressing individuals, but the NATION as a whole. God's ELECT PEOPLE/NATION.

So here again ELECT did not mean elect to SALVATION, but elect for service.

As MarkV first stated, there are no EVIL Christians.

The Nation as a whole were turning to other gods.

The Nation was a THEOCRACY on earth, not the Body of Christ!

Those individual faithful saints were not being addressed. As those who were faithful, did not go and worship other gods.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/12

2 Chronicles 7: CONTINUES

"As for you, if you walk before Me as your father David walked, and do according to all that I have commanded you, and if you keep My statutes and My judgments, then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, 'You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.' But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship them, then I will uproot them from My land which I have given them, and this house which I have sanctified for My name I will cast out of My sight, and will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/12


Solomon was the reason the Kingdom was divided and Israel was scattered. Through his many wives, of many nations, these wives brought into Israel pagan gods and Israel was defiled.

God warned Solomon, and God did exactly what He said He would do.

Now we do not worship in Solomons Temple today, as was all these scriptures written when Solomon dedicated Solomons Temple to God.


This is not addressed to the CHURCH!
---kathr4453 on 5/4/12

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"The people in (2 Chroniceles 7:14) were not Christians. They were Jews who were not saved."
Mark_V. on 5/1/12

"MarkV and Kathr, you say that the Jews spoken of in 2nd Chron 7:14 were not saved?"
trey on 5/2/12

"Trey, the answer is "Yes," there was many saved in the Old Testament, saved the same way as the New, by grace through faith."
Mark_V. on 5/4/12

>>>O<<< Ooops! There it is!
---Nana on 5/4/12

Trey, the answer is "Yes," there was many saved in the Old Testament, saved the same way as the New, by grace through faith. The depravity of man effected all men, to this day. When people hear the Truth and reject it, they are depraved of spiritual truth. They might be smart, but unless the Spirit changes their hearts, they will never believe spiritual truth.
"These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. "but the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, Nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." ( 1 Cor. 2:13,14)
---Mark_V. on 5/4/12

Trey, what many may overlook is in the OT God dealt with Israel as a WHOLE. He was dealing with the NATION not individuals. There again were many individuals who were faithful.

BUT it's verses like these, God speaking o teh WHOLE NATION that calvinists have taken out of context to prove total depravity.

They take the ones God spoke to the NATION, not realizing it has nothing to do with individual faithfulness.

In Rebecca's womb were TWO NATIONS. READ GENESIS!!!

Jacob who is Israel, and Esau who was EDOM.

Nothing to do with individual faith or individual salvation.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/12

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

John 1:1

How long it has been since at first Man was given the first precepts and then more of the word of God?

"And God said, Let there be..."

And there is life and there is salvation, in that He said.
---Nana on 5/2/12

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Trey, what many may overlook is in the OT God dealt with Israel as a WHOLE. He was dealing with the NATION not individuals.

When one sinned they were ALL punished.

Israel THE NATION was a THEOCRACY. That is the difference. Of coarse there were individuals who were faithful. But God was speaking to the NATION as a whole.

No nation today is a THEOCRACY under the Law of Moses.
---kathr4453 on 5/2/12

Allen, by their fruit you will know them.

Just because one calls themself a christian, or has been raised up some sort of folk hero for all to see and say...Christian, doesn't make that person a Christian in the true sense of the word. A generic sense maybe.
But is Generic the REAL thing or an immitation.

Jesus, Peter Paul and John James etc have answered your question through scripture.

None of them call those they identify as Christians, yet they have told us they snuck in. Just read those 7 letters in Revelation.
---kathr4453 on 5/2/12

MarkV and Kathr, you say that the Jews spoken of in 2nd Chron 7:14 were not saved? Do you believe that none before Christ were saved? Were they saved differently than we are now?
It is my understanding that there is only one way to get to heaven and that is by the blood of Christ. MarkV, you especially, more than anyone on this sight teach Predestination and Election. Do you not believe that these Jews were Predestinated and Elected the same way we are today? Do you not believe that they were chosen in Christ Jesus the same way we are today? What about the Everlasting Covenant between God the Father and Christ the Son, was it not in effect at the time 2nd Chronicles 7:14 was written?
---trey on 5/2/12

Many people who profess christian beliefs and who would be instantly recognise as christians have done and are doing some rather hurtful and harmful things. Perhaps, a definition for what is considered to be wickedness, evil or "unchristian" should be given.

---Allan on 5/1/12

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Well MarkV, I agree with you 100%.

It is interesting though that the majority of Churches in America who use this verse are from the Reformed Theology. It started with the Puritans, continued on, a book was written "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall promoted by Reformed Theology Dr. James Kennedy and such, how America is God's NEW Promise Land and we are God's New Chosen People.

America is a wicked nation too. Jesus didn't come to save NATIONS, He came to save INDIVIDUALS all over this planet called earth.

The True Chrich is no longer part of this world system, including America.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/12

The people in (2 Chroniceles 7:14) were not Christians. They were Jews who were not saved. They were God's chosen nation. Not chosen for heaven, for millions have died in their sins to this day, but chosen as the nation through wish He was going to bring the gospel Truth to the world.
As far as wicked Christians, there is no wicked Christians, there is wicked imposters who claim to be Christian.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/12

This verse is not Calvinism, but applicable to God's people when written and applicable to God's people today. It is speaking about believers that have back-slidden into sin, which applies to old covenant Israelites and also to New Covenant Christians, for both can back-slide and leave God's service. God is saying, if the sinner repents, then I will restore and bless. Now the opposite of this is if the back-slider does not return to the Lord, then continued violence and woe and destruction will be for the people and for the land.
---Eloy on 4/29/12

God was talking to Israel and states clearly in verse 19 that IF they turn away from His statues and COMMANDMENTS and they go and worship other gods then He will pluck them up by the roots and cast them out of His sight.

So obviously anyone who turns away from God's laws and commandments is wicked. God says so and so does Jesus Christ. John 19:16-26.
---barb on 4/29/12

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there are many who call themselves followers of christ that are wicked.
---aka on 4/29/12

NO christan is wicked. That verse was spoken to EARTHLY ISRAEL who many were in fact wicked.

That verse does not belong to the CHURCH, Christ's Body.

It would be calling Jesus WICKED.

And God never gave any LAND to Christians.

Unfortunately this has become the new Gospel of America...God's New Chosen people, God's new promise land.

God NEVER made a Covenant with a "Gentile Nation" either. It's more false doctrine coming out of Calvinism.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/12

hello,Here a few verses substanciate possibly,my view that we as humans at some point take our eyes off the Saviour...We find out emotions like the ocean.Wickedness..2Sam.11-12 David's adultery/ch.12 the Lord sent Nathan unto David ..tell him vs.2the rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:3.But the poor man had nothing,save one little ewe lamb,which he had bought and nourished up,...And was unto him as a daughter.4.Then came a traveler ....but he took the poor mans lamb,and dressed it unto the man that come unto him.And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man...He said to Nathan,as the Lord liveth,the man who hath done this thing shall surely die,7.And Nathan said Thou art the man.
---ELENA on 4/28/12

On the otherhand, the wicked people that we must put up with may cause us to act wickedly at times. I asked God, "isn't
this passing the buck"? And He said, "not if I tell you to put it on there".
---catherine on 7/19/08

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I listen to the teacher of the Torah.I am convinced that the word wicked means a candle wick. It also stand for sin and evil.It will always mean evil in the King James and all other versions.
---Danelle_8439 on 7/19/08

Perhaps! And God cannot use these people their wicked ways. You must repent! Then God will restore you to some usefulness. Your guilt is removed.
---catherine on 7/19/08

It is a false notion that the word Wicked devolves from (a twisted) wick. Wick was never a verb. It comes rather from the word Wicca, which means sorcery.
---old_guy on 7/18/08

Unfortunately,some who call themselves "Christian" are wicked.(twisted, warped and deceived.) Many are called, but few are chosen and time is running out! I am an exhorter and I think we should all spend as much time in prayer as possible.James 4:7 Resist the devil and he will FLEE from you, pray without ceasing. Make your calling and election sure! Cleanse your hearts, ye double-minded!
---Danelle_8439 on 7/18/08

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The word "wicked" is an archaic word relating to the twisting of a candle wick.The word is a substitute for evil. Yes, some who call themselves Christians,and I know quite a few,really need to have a more open mind and examine themselves to see if they be in the faith. I HAD a friend I wanted to pray for because her legs were being tormented. She told me to "keep her health at bay" When I asked if we could still be friends,she became even more angry..said that we didn't "mesh". I pass by as she goes to church.How can one say they love God whom they have NOT SEEN and hate thier brother whom they have seen?
---Danelle on 7/17/08

YES! Simply READ the blogs. You will find complaints regarding pastors "doing this and that without inhibition", fellow Christians are in gossips, getting pregnant without a husband, living-in without marriage rites, adultery, etc.etc. What can you say about these, aren't these examples of man's wicked ways?
---Lindfa6546 on 7/17/08

If we change to the word wicked to evil, what does this statement mean? Matthew 7:11," "If ye then, being EVIL(something like wicked), know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
---Mima on 10/30/07

Ofcourse not. Paul was convince that the opposition in Corinth was coming from only a small group of dissenters. But the vast majority of the congregation wanted to do what was right. Dissenters===A disagreement, difference of opinion, or noncomforming to religion. Perhaps, non christians
---catherine on 10/30/07

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, if a person is truly washed in Jesus' precious blood, they will NOT continue to do wicked things. the Holy Spirit will make them want to stop doing bad things.
---steve on 10/30/07

EXZUCUH: There is no such thing as a wicked Christian. What do you think Christian means? That thought is stranger than a science fiction novel. Please describe your interpretation of a Christian for me.
---charles on 8/9/06

true bro. herb he was the son of perdition repesenting the tares the esaus of the church selling jesus out for false doctrine. exzucuh
---Exzucuh on 4/1/06

Judas was not born again. He followed Christ, but was not truely born again. Therefore we can't say he was a wicked Christian.
---Rev_Herb on 4/1/06

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peter denied jesus three times and cursed would you say he was wicked, what made him different from judas? exzucuh
---Exzucuh on 3/31/06

Ezxucuh; Yes I believe Judas had wicked in him and he had wicked ways. He betrayed Jesus, and hung himself. He knew Jesus would fogive him if he only asked, but Judas never asked.
---Rebecca_D on 3/31/06

Judas was a disiple and follower of jesus for 3 and a half years. would you say he had wicked ways? exzucuh
---Exzucuh on 3/31/06

I agree they are not true Christians if still involved in wicked things. So many out there claim to be Christians,but don't want to give up the "fun" side. A true Christian heeds /follows his commandments & does no longer dselight with wickedness, however you can repent & God will forgive & accept you if you get rid of wordly habits.
---candice on 3/31/06

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Everyone who says,Lord, Lord, will not enter Heaven.
---thomas on 3/31/06

No, a true believer is not wicked. Many are not true believers so they don't count.
---Lupe2618 on 12/18/05

Great ans Steve..We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principality's, powers of the air..That is why after we become Born again, receiving the Holy spirit is so valuable..Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil..
---Lynn_Bedford77 on 12/17/05

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