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Baptized Before Salvation

If one must be baptized before they are saved does that add works to grace?

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 ---mima on 12/29/05
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In-Christ(ark)the lost are Saved,covered by the blood in Covenant-death passes over.God's wisdom revealed through His Word-in flesh-to mankind.By One mediator,the revelation from Heaven is opened to earth-by ONE mediator-yet-closed to those not In Christ.God who is Spirit-Words became-(Clay)flesh-
Spirit-Water and Blood.Potter to the Clay-
Is41-42,Is64:8 I have raise up[one]from the north, He shall come,from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name,he shall come upon princes as[upon]morter,as the potter treadeth clay.
The first water cleansing-eight souls where saved.
In-Christ-all might be saved.
Rom9-10-11.
1Jn5(all)Jesus Christ-Son of God-For there are three that bear record-Spirit-Water-Blood
(One Baptism)
---char on 6/18/10


Christ the Ark for mankind.
After-40 days-temptation-dipped in the Water and out of the Water. Cleansing people/nations-Gentile/y'israel)
Mat4:1-11
led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted-fourty days/nights
Revealed-Concealed truth from Heaven to Earth.
Matt13:10-11
Gen7:16-40 flood was forty days upon the earth,and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and all the high hills,under the whole heaven-covered.
World-cleansed by God's Word-Wisdom and Grace.
Mat3:11-He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,and[with]fire:
Eph4:4-6..ONE body,ONE Spirit...ONE baptism...
Is66:22,2Pet3:13New Heavens,New Earth
---char on 6/18/10


Christ may have been baptized to show us the perfect example or possibly he was just following the old law since he had not yet replaced it yet with a higher one. In Acts, it seems to indicate that we all are to believe, repent and be baptized "for the remission of sins". I feel that it is no less God's grace that saves me from sin, even if He puts conditions upon that Grace. The gift giver is no less a perfect gift giver if He gives us directions on how to open or receive the gift that he intends for all of us. The same God that required Naman to be baptized in the Jordan multiple times before extending his grace and cleansing him of leprosy, may be requiring us to be baptized once to be cleansed from all sin.
---chris on 6/17/10


Baptized before saved?
Maybe I'm miss understanding the question.

What are they being baptized for?
What is it they believe?
---char on 6/17/10


This was a transitional period in which confirmation by apostles was necessary to verify the inclusion of a new group of people into the church. Because of the animosity that existed between Jews and Samaritans, it was essential for the Samaritans to receive the Spirit, in the presence of the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, for the purpose of maintaining a unified church.
---MarkV. on 12/18/09

There is not one verse in scripture that supports your "theory" above. There is not one Prophet in the Old Covenant scriptures that support hardly anything you post.
I've watched you expand from a babe to a Legend in Your Own mind.
Proverbs 13:16
Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
---Trav on 6/16/10




---Rob on 6/12/10 Michael E. Those Churches wo avoid or reject the MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL even though it is clearly written in scripture, I often wonder what they are really about

The churches serve up a blenderized gospel, with bits of doctrine from every part of the Bible.
It's wrong to take something physically that doesn't belong you. It's the same thing spirtually.
---michael_e on 6/13/10


There is two baptisms mentioned in Scripture, the first one is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This operation is done by God when He draws sinners to Himself and brings them alive to Christ. He draws them from the darkness into the light. The second baptism is a works of man, when he get baptized in water, proclaiming the committment he has made to Christ. It symbolizes a sinner getting cleanse, and his journey from death (as he goes in the water) unto life, ( when he comes out). An act that literally happen to the sinner when he was saved.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10


Part 2: a lost person without faith in Jesus Christ, can get baptized in water as many times as he wants, but if he did not believe by faith in the works of Christ on the cross for his sins, and believe in Christ resurrection, it means nothing at all. It is "believe and be baptize." The baptism in water is symbolic of a committment already made to Christ.
---MarkV. on 6/13/10


Michael E. Those Churches wo avoid or reject the MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL even though it is clearly written in scripture, I often wonder what they are really about.
---Rob on 6/12/10


#2/2 There are two different messages for two different audiences authorized by one person, Jesus. Gospel of the Kingdom and Gospel of Grace.

We assume baptize means immersion with water. Baptism is immersion. I can totally immerse you in ketchup if you want.

The way that some people who are baptized act, there is no way that they have the Spirit, which is the purpose of spiritual baptism. However, I notice that the ones who are more versed in the teachings of the Scriptures do act like they are immersed with God's Spirit despite their mode of baptism.
---aka.joseph on 6/12/10




#1/2 In Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

I keep reading the importance of what Jesus says first. What is first? Teach. Yet, most churches baptize and the victim usually has very little bible knowledge before and gains very little thereafter.

Secondly, the name of means the authority and witness. The name 'Jesus' does not have mystical powers. Anyway, the Apostles are in violation of a direct order from Jesus if they take it on themselves and do not baptize the way Jesus told them.
---aka.joseph on 6/12/10


Baptism is a work, just as suppering in passover communion is a work, repenting is a work, praying is a work, preaching is a work, All that we Do is producing fruits or works for Christ, and Christ will shed his grace upon us. But the figless or workless tree is accursed, and receives no grace, but receives condemnation forever.
---Eloy on 6/12/10


Lawrence on 6/12/10
Sure do. Are you trying to say that Paul's writings is more important what Jesus said?

Paul writings are inspired, as all scripture. The difference is paul writes basically to all people, where as Christ in His earthly ministry spoke to the nation of Israel, Rom. 15:8 Heb 6:1
Israel had more than one baptism, John's and the day of pentecost.
Paul writes by inspiration that we now have one baptism Eph. 4 performed by the HS into the Body of Christ.
---michael_e on 6/12/10


I agree with this statement by Friendly Blogger.
"Your salvation has nothing to do with Baptism as baptism is an act of Covenantance, like ritual circumcision is for Jews."
---mima on 6/12/10


---Rob on 6/11/10 Yet most "Church going folk" are TOTALLY CLUESLESS concerning this MYSTERY, because it is not taught in most Churches.

Rob you are absolutely right, very few churches and "Church goers" take the time to read it for themselves.
---michael_e on 6/12/10


Michael e
Sure do. Are you trying to say that Paul's writings is more important what Jesus said?

1 Lord (Lord God, Lord Jesus is 1 Lord & the same Lord.) 1 faith which is 1 salvation faith Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v's 37 - 41 which Fulfills Matt.28 v's 19 - 20 to the Jewish people First on the day of Pentecost. 1 baptism which Is the Only water baptism Acts 2 v 38.

No 1 found in scriptures of any 1 being baptized in the titles Father-Son & Holy spirit.
They were baptized in the name of The Lord & the name of The Lord Is, Jesus Christ. There's No other name given.
---Lawrence on 6/12/10


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What order?
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
---micha9344 on 6/11/10


Lawrence on 6/11/10

Serious question, do you have any of Paul's writings in your Bible? Eph 4:5
---michael_e on 6/11/10


Acts 2: 37, 38 says:

Now when they heard this (Peter's sermon), they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said to them "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT."

It sounds clear to me that you get the Holy Spirit for obeying God and being baptized. Be baptized and THEN receive the gift of the HS.
---Gene on 6/11/10


Your salvation has nothing to do with Baptism as baptism is an act of Covenantance, like ritual circumcision is for Jews.
Your salvation occurred prior to the creation when God select all of his elect for he has total foreknowledge of you and all you, and all you would ever do or think.
Paul aliens your adoption into the family of God to the process of Roman adoption, at the time of Paul this was common Knowledge but not so now. You were purchased from your former family for a price. That price was Christ crucifixion. As in Roman adoption you become legally a new person any depts or transgressions are negated. As a member of Gods family you have a clean slate and in your life time this happens when God gives you his irrespirable Grace.
---Friendly_Blogger on 6/11/10


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AMEN Michael E. Is seems you know about the MYSTERY OF THE GOSPEL which is clearly written in scripture.

Yet most "Church going folk" are TOTALLY CLUESLESS concerning this MYSTERY, because it is not taught in most Churches.
---Rob on 6/11/10


If water BAPTISM is still required, why did CHRIST HIMSELF say what is written in Acts 1:5 and Acts 11:16?

Why did the APOSTLE PAUL say what written in 1 Corinthians 1:13-16?
---Rob on 6/11/10


It would it you baptized yourself, but you don't. You receive baptism at the hands of another.

In any case, EVERYBODY is baptized before salvation because NOBODY is saved until s/he hears Christ Himself say, "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of Your Lord."
---Cluny on 6/11/10


Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Eph 4:4-6 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling, One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Which baptism is the 'one' we need?
---micha9344 on 6/11/10


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Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ:

Holy Scripture is quite clear when it says "Believe and be baptized and you will be saved." Notice the order of operation...believe then be baptized.

Yes, baptism should be by total submersion in water just as was demonstrated in the New Testament. The Holy Spirit did not come unto Yeshua until He was baptized.

It is also true that infants may be dedicated unto the Father and His Son, but they cannot be baptized because they do not meet the requirement of prior belief. Parents cannot make promises for their child any more than they can give testimony on another's behalf on Judgment Day. One MUST believe on the Son before they are baptized.
---Higgins on 6/11/10


Michael
The Man-made relig-org's churches beginning with the rcc are still trying to get into heaven without water baptism. That is the same as calling Jesus a lier here, Mark 16 v 16. & it has to be in the name, Jesus Christ because there is No 1 found in scriptures that was baptized in the titles Father-Son & Holy spirit.
The Man-made relig-org's churches are trying to steal their way into heaven. It's just like the scripture that talks about the the thief & the robber trying to get into some other way.
It will Not happen.

It takes God's way, Not man's ways.
---Lawrence on 6/11/10


Exod.19:3-6 says nation of Israel was to be a kingdom of priests and priests had to be washed. Water baptism is a Hebrew water rite to identify Israel with that kingdom of priests. So when the Lord came to set up the kingdom he came,with John Baptist and later the 12, water baptizing.

Water baptism identified Israel with her King and kingdom
Our baptism today identifies us with the
BoC.


Our baptism is spiritual. No getting wet, The HS places us into and identifies us with and in the BoC.

1 Cor 12:13 the HS, not man, does the baptizing.


There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile today, Israel was set aside for rejecting Christ. today they are saved and receive the same DRY baptism we do.
---michael_e on 6/11/10


What most people think of saved is reality SALVATION BY FAITH / HOPE

In reality salvation is a one time event where by people are saved from hell fire.
So yes you must be baptized before your are saved. But once you accept Jesus, even before baptism you claim salvation By faith.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.


NEARER puts it at a future date not NOW
---francis on 6/11/10


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The Man-made relig-org's churches beginning with the rcc are trying to do their best to get into heaven without water baptism.
Being baptized In The name Jesus Christ Is the Only Bible way.
Jesus said here Mark 16 v 16. When ministers of the Man-made relig-org's churches say you don't have to be baptized, they Are calling Jesus a liar.
The Man-made relig-org's churches Are here Matt.15 v 9, 2nd.Cor.11 v's 14 - 15 with their Man-made salvation plans once saved always saved, easy believism, no works salvation, repeat aft me, the sinners prayer etc Are ALL Lies. The Man-mades Are just like the thief & a robber that Are trying to steal their way into heaven. It will Not happen.
---Lawrence on 6/9/10


physical baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Anyone can be physically baptized.
---michael_e on 4/13/10


Baptism is what you do to show you have been saved.
---Samuel on 4/13/10


The people who decided which books of the Bible were acceptable seem to have a different view. Thely listed (as the beliefs of the Church, upon which the books of the Bible were accepts) 'I accept one baptism for the forgiveness of sins'. It is impossible to remove that from the Bible, because, if you do, you say that the people who chose the books of the Bible had a problem with THEIR beleif, and then you cannot quote from the Bible any more. Remember, the bible is not like the ten commandments, it was not given directly by God. Look up 'the creeds', in particular the Nicene one, the original one
---peter3594 on 4/13/10


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Salvation is a free gift. If you MUST do something to receive it, it's not free.
If you have to pay for something it's not free.
---michael_e on 4/9/10


If one doesn't receive and believe the message of Salvation-baptism means nothing to them.
---char on 2/5/10


Hi All
Hi Mark If I misunderstood your previous post my apologies But the Holy ghost as at pentecost is so easy to get My son got it when He was 4
Jack B
//When the person is born of the Spirit he receives the ability to believe, see and hear, though he has not heard the word of God yet, when he does hear it, faith in the word comes to the individual." Can you explain this statement for me in you own words To me the scriptures you quoted don't explain it as probably you have a different understanding of these scriptures than I do
Thanks
---Rodney on 1/5/10


Rodney, you were doing so great and now this. You want me to receive the Spirit that you have and I don't. Must mean you are saying I am not saved. I was wondering when you would get to that. As I said before it is nothing new to me. My comments has to do with Biblical interpretation. The passage you gave has a meaning God wanted to convey. That passage and all other passages have a context. The context of that passage was for the Apostles. He never said, within the context that it was for everyone in the world, or all who come to Christ. At least not in that context. You cannot take a passage out of Context to make your argument. Rodney, It was nice talking to you while it lasted.
---MarkV. on 1/4/10


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//When the person is born of the Spirit he receives the ability to believe, see and hear, though he has not heard the word of God yet, when he does hear it, faith in the word comes to the individual. //

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise - Ephesians 1:13

Acts 8:9-23 (specifically 15,16)

Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
---JackB on 1/5/10


hi Mark If i understand you correctly your saying that much of what Jesus said was aimed at the original 12 (if thats so why were there 120 at pentecost Acts1,15) and some of it was aimed at everyone and apparently your one of the few who are able to discern which is which. We have a saying which is "the person with an experience is not at the mercy of the person with an argument" I know that the "This is it" Holy Spirit (acts2:16) is still the same
and you could experience it too if you humbled yourself and asked the Lord for the same Holy Spirit that was poured out then (there is no other) and as you received it your thinking would miraculously change as the Power and love of God came into your life (Acts1,8 Romans5,5)
---Rodney on 1/4/10


Rodney, you're right. Acts 1:1-5, is directed in context only to the Apostles (vv. 2,3). That passage cannot be understood that what He was talking about was for everyone else since "He presented Himself alive after suffering by many infallable proofs, been seen by them during the forty day" Here we see that God sovereignly had chosen the Apostles for salvation and service (John 6:70, 15:16).
"Through the Holy Spirit had given commandments" refers to the Spirit was the source and power of Jesus earthly ministry (Matt. 4:1, 12:18,) and of the apostles service (Luke 24:49, John 14:16, 17,). "Commandments" here refer to New T. authoritive Truths revealed to the Apostles, (John 14:26, 16:13-15).
---MarkV. on 1/4/10


Hi Mark I 100% agree with your post from 25/12 I would add that as well as Grace and the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the same, so is "the promise of the Father" Acts1,4
saved by His life Romans5,10 The blood of Christ Hebrews9,14 Coloss 1,14 There are many terms but only one salvation
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common(belonging to all) salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the (Common Titus1,4)faith which was once delivered unto the saints. I beleive this is talking about not only the initial experience but also the ongoing miracles and works of love,faith and obedience etc. Yours Rodney
---Rodney on 1/4/10


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Rodney, don't be sorry brother, you have done nothing wrong. The denomination of Pentacostals has changed into many sects. It's hard now to tell which is the real one. Too many fakes have joined the denomination. It is the same with Baptist and others. The originals are now so mixed. That is why I don't follow or support one on line. I try to stay with Scripture. Too much pride in denominations is bad cause it leads people in the wrong direction. What the RCC feared would happen when the Bible was opened to everyone, is what happened. Too many interpretations, and they wanted to control everyone with their own interpretation. As if God only spoke to them only. But faith comes from hearing, hearing the Word of God, not the Word of the RCC.
---MarkV. on 12/26/09


Rodney, the gift of grace and the gift of the Holy Spirit is the same. When God saves someone, the Holy Spirit changes the person from dead to sin, unto life (regeneration). When this happens it opens the gates to all that God has for the individual to not only believe but to repent and be saved. He becomes one part of the body of Christ. What happened at Pentacost was the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit (called, Baptism of the Holy Spirit) to where He would be empowering the believer for ministry, and guiding, sanctifying the individual who is brought to life and continually convicting him when he sins in order to preserve him for the Day of our Lord.
Water baptism is but an act of obedience of the confession he makes to Christ.
---MarkV. on 12/25/09


Hi Mark I'm still unclear what you mean Do you mean that they were saved during this "transitional period" Does that mean that when Paul says that without the Spirit we are not saved Romans8,9 Titus 3,5 He was wrong or that you can be saved without the Spirit in certain circumstances If so what are these? Could it be that the gift of grace and the gift of the Holy spirit is the same gift? Is there any mention of a two stage Christian in the scriptures?
I'm sorry by the way that you've had a bad experience in Pentecost but thats why there are so many warnings in Paul letters to get things right so that those who are corrupt have no excuse
---Rodney on 12/20/09


Jody, you are perfectly correct. Baptism in water saves no one. Grace through faith does. John baptized with water all those who heard the Word and had commited their lives to Christ first in obedience of their commitment. John was working on the sideline bringing the gospel to many people. The Holy Spirit's ministry of indwelling permanently in a believers life began at Pentecost.
---MarkV. on 12/19/09


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Of course, and it's wrong!
---Catherine on 12/18/09


Rodney, the Samaritans had already heard the Word, had believed, and had been water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus verse 12. Baptism in water is done out of obedience. You have to remember that Salvation is by Grace through faith and that is why the Apostles send Peter and John to pray they receive the Holy Spirit. This was a transitional period in which confirmation by the apostles was necessary to verify the inclusion of a new group of people into the church. Because of the animosity that existed between Jews and Samaritans, it was essential for the Samaritans to receive the Spirit, in the presence of the leaders of the Jerusalem Church, for the purpose of maintaining a unified church.
---MarkV. on 12/18/09


Mark 11:30: "The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me."

It would seem that mima and jody should have no problem answering that question? Here is a clue, John 1:33: "... but he that sent me to baptize with water, ...".
---Nana on 12/17/09


Hi all
Mark Could you please clarify I'm not sure if your saying that the Samaratins were save prior to receiving the Holy Spirit or not? thanks
---Rodney on 12/17/09


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No..of course not. Baptism prior to salvation is simply meaningless. One cannot die to self and rise to Christ if he doesn't believe in Christ to start with. The ceremony is meaningless. We must be saved first and through obedience be baptized.
---jody on 12/17/09


Rodney, one passage at a time, Acts 8 speaks about the Samaritan's who had not only received the word of God and had been baptized in water in the name of the Lord, now the Apostles laid hands on them signifying affirmation and solidarity by receiving the Holy Spirit just as those at Pentecost. Just as the Gentiles did when they received the Spirit in (10:46), and as those followres of John did in (19:6). As Samaritans, Gentiles, and believer from the Old Covenant were added to the Church, the unity of the Church was established. No longer could one nation (Israel) be God's witness people, but the church was made up of Jews, Gentiles, half-breed Samaritans, and O,T. Saints who became N.T. Believers (19:1-7).
---MarkV. on 12/16/09


Mark I hear what you are saying neverthe less the people in Acts 19 and Acts 8 were clearly Baptised in water before they were saved.
Why then if baptism is now only of use to saved people clearly they had a different understading then.
And while various people received the Holy Spirit in old testament times Jesus identified the comforter that would only come after He departed John 14,26 John15,26
John16,7
If salvation happened in the middle of the gospels there was no need for Jesus to go to the cross
---rodney on 12/16/09


Rodney, don't confuse water baptism, spiritual baptism, indwelling of the Spirit. You need to be careful how you interpret passages concerning the works of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit's activity before Pentecost tells us that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mothers womb (luke 1:15). Zechariah, his faith, was filled with Holy Spirit, resulting in the prophecy found in Luke 1:67-79. The Holy Spirit was on Simeon, inspiring him to prophesy when he beheld the baby Jesus (Luke 2:25-27) Jesus told His apostles at the Last Supper that they knew the Holy Spirit, because He was already dwelling with them. So when you speak about the Spirit you have to read each context correctly. Take one at a time.
---MarkV. on 12/16/09


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I f Baptism is only required after Water Baptism Why were so many people in acts Baptised prior to being saved?
For eg The Samaratins Romans 8,12-17
For although they were believers the bible makes it very clear that without the Holy Spirit they wern't saved
Titus3,5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
Romans,9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
1Co 6:11 but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
---Rodney on 12/14/09


BAPTISM IS SALVATION.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.
Matthew 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...
In His own words Jesus has told us how to obtain Salvation. BAPTISM BY THE TRINITY.
Words said in a certain fashion to obtain Salvation is Man Made.
I will take Jesus at His Words before any other other person. Read the Gospel with your eyes, ears and heart open.
---Nicole on 5/18/08


It means absolutely zero is what it means. First salvation through the Blood of Christ [what power], then baptism as an outward sign of a brand new life. This is how God planned it. Man comes along and messes it all up.
---catherine on 5/18/08


It doesn't do an unsaved person to get baptised before getting saved. God would not reconigize that, for that person isn't one of his. You'll go down a sinner, come back up a sinner.
---Rebecca_D on 5/17/08


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Eloy,
"Baptism of desire" The concept is that one is considered duly baptized if they would have been baptized had they known about it or had they had the opportunity. To baptize an infant, as you suggest sounds similar. It suggests that they would have chosen to be baptized on their own, had they had the mental ability to make that choice.
All of this is predicated on the false asumption that baptism DOES something for one to make sure their salvation. A salvation by works.
---Bruce5656 on 1/4/06


bruce, baptism of what? i never heard of such a thing. But anyhow, we should have desire within our hearts to follow the Lord and his commandments.
---Eloy on 12/31/05


Eloy, your statment about children and the totaly mentaly retarded" sounds like a variation of the Catholic doctrine of "Baptism of desire."
---Bruce5656 on 12/31/05


WIVV, Baptism is of God, not man, so therefore i could be a totally mental retarded person or infantile and when i am baptised as the Bible directs then it is 100% of God's grace coming to me. Else why would God say it is for you and for your whole house and your children? No, baptism is of God and for ALL of those to be of God, whether or not they have any ability to understand salvation.
---Eloy on 12/31/05


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Mima, thanks for your question. Here is my opinion, Grace is free and always will be. It cannot have works are its no longer grace. Baptism comes as obedience to our commitment to Christ. How can anyone have obedience to Christ before he is saved? He doesn't believe yet, why would he get baptized? his lord is satan when he is lost. Once saved he has faith and when he does he will want to be obedient and follow the teachings of Christ without being forced.
---Lupe2618 on 12/31/05


To be baptised before salvation is a waste of time. It has no spiritual value! One of the reasons a person is baptised is to give a visable testimony to his salvation. The purpose of baptism is of no value if there is no salvation on the part of the person being baptised. (Romans 6:4-7)
---WIVV on 12/30/05


You don't have to be baptized to be saved and go to Heaven....look at the thief on the cross next to Jesus.
---wes on 12/30/05


mima, Jesus did not get baptized for me, he got baptized for himself to fulfill the requirement of God. The word "all" here means that although he is the Lord, he still is not excluded from this process of fulfillment, it does not mean "all people". Each one of us gets baptized for ourselves, no one can get baptized in proxy for someone else. That's a false doctrine. The truth is each one of us is individually held 100% accountable for our obedience to God's Word or lack thereof.
---Eloy on 12/30/05


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Eloy; Yes JESUS got baptized to fulfill ALL righteousness. Not his own righteousness but ALL. Actually JESUS got baptized for me and you. The reason He did was because our actions before the Father will not be accepted. That is why we are baptized into Jesus. He and He alone makes us acceptable with the Father.---mima12/30/2005
---mima on 12/30/05


baptism is not a human work or effort to earn salvation. Baptism is obedience to God's word, and it is his blessing for all the households called of God: all men, all woman, all children, and all babies. Some get saved before baptism, some during baptism, and some after baptism. i believe that Jesus was holy before his baptism, but he still got baptized to fulfill all righteousness.
---Eloy on 12/30/05


The salvation in baptism is not that you are now going to heaven because you are baptized. The salvation in baptism is a wholeness and empowerment because of obedience to God. The Greek word used is SOZO. It can mean rescue from enemies, wholeness, health, deliverance, forgiveness, empowerment,etc. So when baptism saves us it can mean any of these.
---john on 12/30/05


Rebecca is correct. It does a person who is not saved no good to get baptized. Jesus said," He who believes and is baptized shall be saved."
He wasn't saying that water baptism is needed for salvation, but it is an outward showing of inward change. I Corinthians 1:13-17 gives a little proof that baptism isn't reqired for salvation.
---Rickey on 12/29/05


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