The verses 12.17 Isiah 14 Are the freeing of the Israelites from Babylon and the fall of the King of Babylon. Not to do with Satan or Lucifer falling from heaven. Which was the point being made. Which again you twisted.
Nor have I quoted that the stars in Revelation were not Angels MARK. If you read my blogg in context. Which you twisted.
Also My reference at the bottom was a direct quote from WIKI. In which I was trying to say that agreed Enoch is not canon and for reasons. Yet in the old testament days and early christian church the book was well supported. It had influence on the people who lived then. But again you twisted that.
---chris on 1/21/12|
//meaning they were from heaven(God's kingdom Throne)//
Assumed without Biblical merit.
Look closer. Study the writer, John. While studying Revelation, study his circumstances during the writing. Basic Biblical research!
In exile on the ISLAND of Patmos, John had plenty of STARS to look at, aka HEAVEN.
He had THE DEEP, aka SEA that served as both barrier and burial GRAVE. He writes about the great "dragon"(dragon meaning a DEVOURING SEA monster). John had a vision of this devouring monster A-N-D his angels warring in heaven.
John does NOT call the dragon an angel. Only that he had angels(messengers delivering his MESSAGES).
John NEVER writes that he means Heaven as in Heaven, God's throne.
---Legends on 1/21/12|
Without adding to or deleting meanings from Revelation, which we are warned NOT to do, compare Revelation12:1-3 to 12:7-8. In 12:1-3, John saw a vision in heaven(the sun,moon,stars HEAVEN) about something going on in the earth realm. NOT God's throne.
SIMILARLY, in 12:7-8, a devouring SEA creature aka DRAGON and his angels war against God by warring against God's angels. Then are cast down from "heaven"(which without merit, many INTERPRET to mean God's invisible HOLY throne based solely on involvement of God's angels).
Incorrect! THAT Heaven has/will never seen war.
DEATH is THE DEVOUR on Earth. Sin, ERROR, and all of DEATH'S messengers make war from the Earthy heights it exalts itself to because of HUMAN PRIDE.
---Legends on 1/21/12|
Chris, I believe I answered with Scripture and you answered with nothing but your own thoughts and believes. Neither the book of Enoch or the epistle of Barnabas are canon. Matters not who thinks they belong there. There is many books out there, and many have some truth to them and some not truth which contradicts other passages in Scripture and the reason they didn't pass the test.
---Mark_V. on 1/21/12|
//If I'd known//
Huh? My blogs on this subject have been very consistent. The term SATAN has an interpretation that's correct. And one that's incorrect, I do not accuse ANY of God's angels of rebelling. Didn't happen according to the Bible(which is not a fairy tale). The unfounded interpretation about an angel formerly named Lucifer and currently named satan does not agree with ANY of the writings of the prophets and apostles. THAT'S FAIRYTALE!
Give me one verse(without adding your interpretation)STATING God made satan an angel or that a creature named satan ever was an angel. There's more proof that Peter/Philistine Army were Satan.
Read you own blogs! You're having to add something that's simply not there.
---Legends on 1/20/12|
Mark as normal you twist what people say.
I never implied there was not a Satan, just that chapter 13 and 14 of Isiah does not relate to Lucifer falling from heaven.
In relation to Enoch I am quite critical at times. I do not see it as canon. I do though see it as being read by the early church and in old testament times. Which had an influence on early Christians.
The Book of Enoch is considered as Scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4) and by many of the early Church Fathers, such as Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian, who wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.
---chris on 1/20/12|
Legends, here is a few passages about Angels, celestial beings, not human messagers, this concerns the war that broke out in heaven (v.7) Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought,
"but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer (meaning they were from heaven) So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of Old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world, he was cast to earth, and his angels were cast out also" ( Rev. 12:7-9). And (Rev. 20:2). This are not human being messengers fighting Satan, but angelic beings fighting angelic beings. If they had not fallen, why were they cast down, and why would they fight the good angels of God?
---Mark_V. on 1/20/12|
sorry I meant to put in my view reference my blogg. Everyone has a right to their own view.
apologies for that.
---chris on 1/19/12|
If you read the chapters 13 and 14. See my previous bloggs. Isiah has nothing to do with Lucifer but the freeing of the Israelites as slaves from Babylon and the throwing down of the king. Which was a prophecy that was fulfilled. How Lucifer reference Satan ever became associated with this no-one knows. The idea first appeared in 3rd century ad.
Satan is most definately an evil force. But Isiah 13 and 14 has nothing to do with the throwing down of the devil from heaven.
---chris on 1/19/12|
Legends, If I'd known you didn't believe satan and his angels had fallen from heaven, I would never answered you. The Bible is not a fairytale. No fallen satan, no fallen angels, they must be holy angels in rebellion against God or wait, you might not believe they are angels but people. Or, are they are good angels doing bad things Huh? Eve was deceived by a good angel, wait, you don't believe the serpent was satan. You've written your own Bible where satan and his demons are not fallen. Please Legends, where do you come out with all that stuff? And get this, you agree with Chris. Something very wrong there. I don't think I can answer your questions because I would be so far off from where you are at, since there is no sinful angels to speak of.
---Mark_V. on 1/19/12|
//veiled reference to satan//
Satan, as you understand the term, has nothing to do with this passage. Satan isn't a fallen angel. No such thing as fallen angels!
Dan10:13 says nothing about two angels battling other angels.
Says what it says. HUMAN words summoned the angels. "I am come because of YOUR WORDS" Dan10:12
As in the case with Pharaoh, so was the case with the Ruler of Tyrus in Ezekiel. AND so is the case here in Daniel10:
Godly visitation IS DELAYED due to evil political leadership's WORDS AND DECREES!
The angel told Daniel that the RULER of Persia withstood him. Without adding to the Bible, it's clear in ch10 vs1 that RULER was Cyrus, not some fabled former angel called satan. ADVERSITY came from Cyrus!
---Legends on 1/18/12|
I wholeheartedly agree with your view of Isaiah14 regarding it referring to a prophetic look into the future at Nebuchadnezzar, FUTURE King of Babylon.
As to the term "satan", my blog to Mark mirrors what the term meant to the Hebrew people back when the OT/NT were being written and how the vast majority of JEWS understand it's meaning today.
It's totally different from the religious tradition most of us Christians have been taught in Sunday School. A Jewish based research on what satan means to the Jews(who gave us the Bible, I might add) will explain my position better. There has never been and will never be any enemies or adversaries in the invisible throne of God. Heaven, the visible skies, HAS housed adversaries.
---Legends on 1/18/12|
Which never happened, it was in fact a reference to The King of Babylon, who was thrown down from his throne to the dust
a MORTAL MAN was cast down from heaven? this contradicts Holy Scripture
king of babylon is Satan who is god of this world
babylon is the religious system of the ancient world AND the world today which is why Christ tells TRUE Believers to come out of babylon (its traditions and systems)
no mortal man has ever ascended to heaven PER Christ
yet you claim Isaiah speaks of a mortal man which would make the story in Isaiah a fictional fairy tale ABOUT a mortal King because clearly Isaiah would contradict the Words of Christ if this were a "true story" by mans misunderstanding
---Rhonda on 1/18/12|
The contention is that Lucifer was cast down from heaven. Which never happened, it was in fact a reference to The King of Babylon, who was thrown down from his throne to the dust. As clearly seen in Isiah when reading chapter 13 and 14, in context. Which does matter, whether guided by Satan or not. Being cast from heaven or from a worldly throne is a far different thing.
Other than that is there anything else connecting Satan to ever being in heaven?
---chris on 1/18/12|
Legends, I don't think it really matters much if his name is Lucifer or satan. The word "Lucifer" refers to "the light bearer" which is a name applied to the King of Babylon as a description of his glory and pomp in (Isa. 14:12-14). "The passage is a veiled reference to satan," the real power behind the goverment of Babylon (Dan. 10:13: Eph. 6:12). In Daniel 10:13) the 3 week delay was due to an evil angel opposing Gabriel in heavenly warfare (Rev. 16:12-14) Like the king of Babylon Lucifer, this angel was specifically anointed with Persian power in an effort to thwart the work of God.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/12|
There was opposition from Korah fans who saw Korah/Dathan get swallowed by the ground for their sins. When Moses sinned, they wanted the revenge(their warped sense of justice fulfilled against Moses). "They"(Korah followers) disputed about the body of Moses who THEY had brought railing accusations against. Or in other words, "The devil(not a fallen angel but HUMAN enemy or enemies in the form of Moses haters) disputed the body of Moses"
Seeing it this way now causes 2Peter2 to make more sense.
"despise government... They are selfwilled and speak evil against dignities. That's why messengers which are greater in power and might bring not railing accusation against THEM(HUMANS!) before the Lord"
---Legends on 1/17/12|
Chris, The contention referred to in Jude is not mentioned in Bible's first five books. BUT the secret burial of Moses performed by God is.
Moses didn't enter promised land because of sin. Sin's punishment is death. Korah's punishment for his particular sin was death. JUSTICE!
Korah, buried in the ground by God. Moses was buried in the ground by God. EQUALITY!
The difference in the burial was the difference in the sin. Moses didn't despise dominion nor open his mouth against dignities. Moses was meek.
High-minded Korah brought railing accusation against Moses and Aaron. Opened his mouth against dignities. Sowing/Reaping! The ground's MOUTH was opened against Korah(Core) and his family. Korah was cast down to his dark grave/hell.
---Legends on 1/17/12|
I completely agree with you assessment of the early chapters in Revelation.
As you know, I disagree with merging the identification of satan and a fabled fallen angel who was supposedly named Lucifer.
In the middle-eastern world then as well as now, the term satan refers to:
The first reference in scripture of the term satan was referring to God himself in relation to Hagar. God withstood her(as an enemy) from leaving.
---Legends on 1/17/12|
Legends 2: A real angelic angel is mentioned in the very first verses of Revelation. The channel through which the revelation comes from Christ is "by His angel unto His servant John" The communication spoken of as "signified," while often meaning revelation through symbols, as in this book, includes also revelation through words which communicate the meaning. The name of the angel is not given, though Gabriel has been suggested (Dan. 8:16: 9:2,21-22: Luke 1:26-31). John is declared to be the recipient of the revelation.
The opening verse of this chapter therefore sets forth the basic scheme of the entire book, it subject matter, purpose, angelic channel, as well as its human writer.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/12|
Other than Jude which is still considered dubious by some. Does it mention anything about the body of Moses anywhere else?
This is not a matter of contention, I am just asking.
Moses went alone into the mountains and was never seen again, no one could find where he was buried.
I tend to believe he transformed and hence appeared at the transfiguration with Elijah.
Maybe the fight with the Devil was over that very thing. transformation or grave.
---chris on 1/17/12|
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Legends, I agree with you on one part, I completely disagree with the rendering of the passages in Jude. In Revelation 2 and 3, the word "Angel" does refer to messengers not literal angels. Although it can mean angel, in this case it does not, for one reason, Angels are never mention as leaders in the Church, most likely these angels are the 7 key elders representing each of those churches (v.1:20) In Jude, Michael the archangel is contenting with the devil concerning the body of Moses, he said, "The Lord rebuke you" Michael is discribe here as an Archangel and given a name as was Gabrial. No other angels were named by name other then satan who is discribe as Lucifer.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/12|
I also understood that you meant the sinning beings in 2Peter were no longer angels. If you meant something else other than what you wrote in that blog then it's simply a case of miscommunication.
But my point is this. This entire point of contention is moot. The word "angel" should never have been used by the translators in this passage nor in Jude and Revelation chapters2 and 3. The contexts for these chapters scream to have been better translated "messengers" not "angels". The context in each case is referring to human messengers.
This passage in 2Peter does nothing to answer a faulty blog question seeing that 2Peter is about humans JUST AS Isaiah's "Lucifer" is about a human also.
---Legends on 1/14/12|
Some people mix fallen angels with the garden of Eden and Satan. The serpent was wise and charming, for that is the meaning of the word in those times.
When we normally talk of, 'in the time of someone', that person is normally the leader of their people.In the time of Adam, in the time of Moses, for example.
If we apply the same to Jared. The fallen angels came in the time of Jared. A time when Jared led the people, which was for approximately 100 years. Adam had already passed on. Just a thought.
---chris on 1/13/12|
Rhonda, did you not say,
"how does Hebrews "disprove" YOUR theory ABOUT Holy Scripture ...seeing the angels that sinned are no longer angels! 2Pet 2:4"
You claimed that the angels that sinned are no longer angels and even gave 2 Peter 2:4) So where does it say that? No where. They never changed to something else. They remained angels locked up. Now how does God do that, I have no clue. But I do know they were still angels after getting locked up.
"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment" nothing there about what you said.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/12|
Rhonda, there you go again, first everyone is ignorant
there I go again?? LOL
so you continue to spin? dodging why you would make a statement about 2Peter 2:4
so where did I go?
enlighten me then
where in 2 Peter 2:4 does it state "angels are no longer angels??
when you can answer that we can go forward otherwise I won't play "spin the Holy Scripture verse" with you because you are bored and need entertainment and have no real desire to discuss Holy Scripture
---Rhonda on 1/12/12|
Rhonda, there you go again, first everyone is ignorant or reading satanic scripts but you, and when people response to your interpretation of those three passages, and show you nothing you said was found in those passages, you now say,
"God WARNS to not ADD to HIS WORD ...inserting ideas instead of reading at face value ITS PURPOSE to dismiss Gods Word"
Since you know you should not add, why did you add what was not there in the first place?
Instead of adding an accusation together with your answers, why not just answer the question without condemning others? Is it some disability you have?
---Mark_V. on 1/12/12|
2 Peter 2:4 the angels were no longer angels, nothing is found in those passages. You then said "Christ said MANY would come in HIS name and be deceived"
"angels are no longer angels?? wow that must be written backwards somewhere in some satanic script in YOUR version of 2 Peter 2:4 because Holy Scripture is VOID of that idea
or if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment,
impossible to have a discussion when you TWIST and PERVERT the clear meaning of one scripture
God WARNS to not ADD to HIS WORD ...inserting ideas instead of reading at face value ITS PURPOSE to dismiss Gods Word
---Rhonda on 1/11/12|
Rhonda, when you criticize others, you should look at what you write first. You said,
"it is hard to overcome lies taught by mortal men ...many teach these lies in pure ignorance and those who follow them repeat these lies with that same ignorance"
It is your ignorance that is at issue here. You said
that 2 Peter 2:4 the angels were no longer angels, nothing is found in those passages. You then said "Christ said MANY would come in HIS name and be deceived"
The passage say's that those that come in His name, will deceive others. You then gave Luke 10"18-20 that passage talks about our names are written in heaven and have authority to trample, serpents and scorpions, and the powers of the enemy.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/12|
Isa 14:11 ...maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers.
i am not sure, but angels (fallen or not) probably do not die and have maggot memory foam mattresses and silkworm covers.
---aka on 1/11/12|
He's not called Lucifer!
---John on 1/10/12|
If you read Isiah chapters 13 and 14 you get the full context of what Isiah is saying. Its about the freeing of the Israelites and the demise of Babylon.
When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has ceased! How his insolence has ceased! How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
I believe it is talking of the throwing down of the king and his gods.
---chris on 1/10/12|
//angels that sinned are no longer angels
If God's elephants sinned, they'd still be elephants but fallen elephants. God's roaches, fallen roaches. God's turtles, fallen turtles. God's humans, fallen humans. And IF God's angels sinned(which NONE ever do) they would still be angels, FALLEN ANGELS.
In 2Peter, Peter wrote the Greek word AGGELOS meaning MESSENGERS referring to the REBEL HUMAN children of Israel after leaving Egypt.
That's 2Peter's context. The translators in many, not all, translations improperly used the word ANGEL with no contextual cause to back the word usage.
The first rebel?Adam. Not God's angels.
Knowing the extent of personal human responsibility is the key to understanding the Bible and Life.
---Legends on 1/10/12|
//MANY teach these lies in pure ignorance. Those who follow them repeat these lies with that same ignorance//
The Big Lie being taught IN IGNORANCE by THE MANY is there was once an angel named Lucifer.
I see THE vast amount of people teaching and repeating THIS LIE.
The WAAAYY lesser amount of people are teaching that Isaiah 14 was clearly fulfilled in Daniel4 by the King of Babylon more than 100yrs after Isaiah prophecied about Nebuchanezzar's great tree felled(chopped down) from it's roots causing it to fall from HEAVEN meaning the natural SEEN heaven.
Even less are teaching that Isaiah's prophecy is a veiled revelation about the coming Messiah.(see earlier blog)
---Legends on 1/10/12|
All angels are ministering(serving) spirits to God and His sons. Their words are always correct(Hebrews)
how does Hebrews "disprove" YOUR theory ABOUT Holy Scripture ...seeing the angels that sinned are no longer angels! 2Pet 2:4
it is hard to overcome lies taught by mortal men ...many teach these lies in pure ignorance and those who follow them repeat these lies with that same ignorance
Christ said MANY would come in HIS name and be deceived - not a few Rev 12:9, Mark 13:6, Luke 10:18-20
without understanding the FIRST rebellion AGAINST the Father in Heaven one would not comprehend the LAST rebellion prior to return of Christ
---Rhonda on 9/12/11|
wow! obviously no one here is a real bonafide, anointed, called of the Father - while walking in the Presence born-again, Spirit-filled son of the King. Lucifer was his name in his 1st abode, when he was created, and he has 6 abodes. He is in his 3rd. I'd advise you all (mostly) to make your calling and election sure if u can
---JeremiahSeer on 9/12/11|
Jesus identifies HIMSELF as DAYSTAR in Revelation.
Willa correctly blogged, based on Isaiah, DAYSTAR(aka bright one, shining one, Lucifer, light bringer/bearer, morningstar) refers directly to who Isaiah says the prophecy refers. A MAN who would be Babylon's king over 100 years AFTER THE PROPHECY WAS GIVEN.
It's not a record of past events in Heaven.
In addition, Isaiah is THE Messianic prophet. If you read closely enough, you'll find an indirect prophetic picture of the death, burial and ascension of Jesus in Isaiah14.(A King being Mocked with taunts, a high and lifted Up Tree chopped from it's lifesource by FELLERS(HUMANS who chop trees), Stars, A Man saying He'll be like the Most High, etc.
Duh... It's a prophecy by ISAIAH!
---Legends on 5/17/11|
that is what Lucifer means. But it really means morning star or shining one. I have given an explanation as to who the morning star is.
---willa5568 on 5/17/11|
I wonder how many people know Satan was also called "DAYSTAR".
The Daystar Television Network is appropriately named since the are deceiving people and doing the work of Satan.
---Rob on 5/17/11|
Why is something so clear so muddled by a religious tradition that doesn't pass the test of almost everyone's rules of interpretation.
The word angel isn't in Isaiah14. Yet we still see people marry the Ezekiel28 prophecy against the HUMAN King of Tyrus(the HUMAN Tyrant) and Isaiah's prophecy against the HUMAN King of Babylon(the boastful, prideful King).
The contextual marriage should be between Isaiah14 and Daniel4.
In Isaiah, the tall TREE'S top may grow to reach above the clouds and even the stars of heaven. But when it is fallen(chopped down) it's chopped from below by the fellers on Earth not Heaven.
Like all trees, the high part falls from the heights. Thus is pride!
---Legends on 5/16/11|
4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
16 those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you:Is this THE MAN who made the earth tremble,who shook kingdoms,17,who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities,who did not let his prisoners go home?
Lucifer is a bad translation. It means morning star or shining one, not a person. It describes the pride of this king, 13 "You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven", but 11 "Your pomp is brought down to Sheol", 12 "How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low"
this king has exalted himself above the earth (the morning star) and his pride says he will rise above the heavens.
---willa5568 on 5/15/11|
The name "Lucifer" means "light bearer", similar to it. Lucifer was nick-named the "son of the dawn". His actual hebraic name is "Hel'el". I believe that he was the highest ranking arch-angel. Who, yes, lead the Worship Music in Heaven. That's why he's good with rock music and the such. I'm suspecting that there were three main Arch-Angels before Satan's fall. "Hel'el", "Micha'el" and "Gabri'el".
---Gordon on 5/15/11|
Don't equate unestablished legends about an angel formerly named Lucifer with the truth of what the prophets, Jesus and the apostles wrote about Satan.
-There has never been any ANGEL that was ever named Lucifer.
-No solid scriptural witnesses(2 or 3 being the standard set by Jesus for minimal requirement) saying that there was an angel that led a rebellion before human creation and got kicked out of Heaven.
-All angels do God's will, Hearken God's word(Psalms).
-All angels are ministering(serving) spirits to God and His sons. Their words are always correct(Hebrews).
Rhonda, If you'd rather not discuss this, we'll find common ground in MANY other areas.
Personally, I enjoy hearing your views even if we disagree.
---Legends on 5/15/11|
Man johanesq_davistoor that was really deep! Groovy!
Tell us what does
2) 10 x 7 =
Whoa dude real heavy thinking there!
I'm depressed! Oh I meant impressed with your deeeeeppp spiritual amd mystical posts.
Man dude can't wait till you get to Algebra!
---John on 4/12/11|
365.25 x 9 = 3287.25.
3287.25 - 1332 = 1955.25
1955.25 - 1948 = 7.25
1955.25 - 1942 = 13.25
13.25 - 7.25 = 6.
1955.25 + 49 + 1 = 2005.25
+ 7 + 7 + 2..
7 + 7 + (7 - 5).
where 1332 + 3 (2 + 1 Day of The Lord ~7 years divided in 'half' at 1290 days).
1 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 9
1 + 3 + 3 + 5 = 12 months, stones.
---johanesq_davistoor on 4/12/11|
Tyre and Sidon, 7 diadems:
26 - 1 = 25.
365 x 7 = 2555. 36 - 26 = 10, 65 - 25 = 40. 1040. 40 - 10.
28 - 26 = 2.
2555 + 2. (365.25 x 7 = 2556.75 days or years or )
1 preMillennial 7 year period that was to come.
As an eighth king who belongs to the 7: (7+1 = 10 - 3 + 1)
365.25 x 8 years = 2922, + 10 days. +-1 day, = 2933. + 1000, = 3933.
666 x 5 = 3330.
3933 - 3330 = 603 Noah following flood.
---johannes_davisht on 4/11/11|
"In Eden the garden of God you have been, every precious stone your covering, the ruby, the topaz, and the diamond, the chrysolite, the onyx, and the jaspers, the sapphire, the turquoise, and the emerald, and gold: The workmanship of your finger cymbals and of your pipes in you, in the day you were created, they were prepared. And the great red dragon's tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did throw them to the earth. How have you fallen from heaven, Heylel, son of the early dawn? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations." Ezekiel 28:13+ Revelation 12:3,4+ Isaiah 14:12.
---Eloy on 4/11/11|
the FIRST rule of understanding Holy Scripture is given to us by Christ ...here a little there a little ...in other words there is NOT ONE Scripture that "sums up" an idea ...which is EXACTLY what you are attempting to do
further ...religious chaos TEACHES that Scripture is "borrowed" to "hold up" an idea - that is a theory of mortal men
otherwise the "legend" is itself the Bible and it would be just another collection of books whose teachings are now LOOSELY used by false ministers of Satans world 2Corin 4:4 ...those ministers who do not TEACH from EVERY Word of God Mat 4:4, 2Corin 4:2
you do understand Satan IS the god of this world - right?
---Rhonda on 4/10/11|
Traditional teachings are due their proper respect. But all teachings are subject to scrutiny.
The word Lucifer is found only one place in scripture, Isaiah12KJV.
Your blog sums up the traditional teaching we've heard for centuries. Angel named BY GOD.
Compare your summation against Isaiah chapter 12. The traditonal is a GROSSLY adulterated LEGEND that HAS TO borrow from other Bible verses in order to hold up as a doctrine!
Stop, Look and Listen to your summation in light of what's clearly written IN ISAIAH.
-No angel mentioned
-God doesn't name anyone Lucifer.
-Is14:2,3,4 The formerly oppressed people TAUNT the king.
v10 All THEY shall speak and say...12How art thou fallen from heaven O LUCIFER,
---Legends on 4/1/11|
Lucifer was the name given to an archangel ...not a King on earth
one must understand the POWERS the archangel Lucifer possessed are NOT any powers a mortal man has ever been given
Lucifers name was given to him because he was the angel of light when he rebelled against The Father in Heaven Lucifers name was changed by The Father in Heaven to Satan which represents the once proud angel FALLING from his high position into a state of decay
any negative trait is an influence (power of air) from the god of this world 2Corin 4:4 who is Satan the father of lies
all things from The Father in Heaven are pure
---Rhonda on 3/29/11|
Lucifer was the name given in reference to the king of Tyre, not Satan. The is also no biblical proof of Satan having been a worship leader.
---Jaime on 3/26/11|
Rene -- My brother was a 33rd degree Mason (they are quite rare)
He was Grand Master for the state in which he lived. He simply laughed at me for believing Satan was real. He didn't believe in such a being. He didn't believe in sin or the divinity of Christ, either. We used to argue about these things.
I don't know everything the Masons believe...they don't all believe the same. Masonry is not a religion. The RCC won't allow their members to join. But Jews and Protestants of most denominations belong. They don't give up their Jewish or Protestant affiliations. And many are as active in church or synagogue as in Masonry.
---Donna66 on 2/13/11|
This is an example of TRADITION at work.
However just the context itself does NOT allow for identifying Lucifer with Satan.
---Cluny on 2/11/11|
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---I Have found No scriptural reference for a second or third heaven.--- Robert
2 Cor 12:2
---CraigA on 2/12/11|
i will agree with you that the character in Isaiah called lucifer is probably not satan.
however, my question to you is how does one know that 33 degree masons worship "lucifer" and not satan unless that person is a 33rd degree mason ?
they are sworn to secrecy. their life depends on it. so, how do you know?
---aka on 2/11/11|
Give me the scripture where Father God changes Lucifer's name to Satan! There is none Lucifer and Satan are seperate - in Freemasonry only the 33rd degree get to experience what that occult is all about - and experience is the true worship of Lucifer, the lower levels known as dupes are still talking about satan - but the true worship is that of lucifer - by the time they get to the 33rd degree they are so deep into the occult they can't resist that cure even if they wanted to - and that is why it amazes me that while the antichrists of this world are worshipping lucifer all the ignorant christians are still talking about satan - when it should be lucifer
---Rene on 2/11/11|
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth,
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
---francis on 9/20/10|
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The atmosphere is the firmament, Space is Heaven. When Lucifer rebelled, 1/3 of the heavens fell with him. I Have found No scriptural reference for a second or third heaven. We are simply behind enemy lines.
---Robert on 9/19/10|
If Lucifer was a God given calling for any angel... it still is the calling given to that angel. God doesn't change His mind about callings. Because... "His gifts and CALLINGS are without repentence."
Here's a grand idea! Let's start with the fact that there is no angel that was ever called Lucifer or heylel or morning star or bright one or son of the morning. That's my challenge for anyone to find the word angel and Lucifer in the same context without adding to what the Word says.
---Legends on 9/2/10|
Satan is his name as the Devil... He used to be an angel and as an angel his name was Lucifer while he was in Heaven.
---Kyle on 9/2/10|
In what I am studying here, is going to require more studying. I will tell you this much, I a finding out some surprising stuff. And a lot of people has been a getting it wrong. I'll do some more studying on this name Lucifer.
---catherine on 9/1/10|
Satan WAS ONCE called Lucifer his name was changed by God after he rebelled
He is now called the prince of the power of air, the father of all lies, and god of this world
a worship leader in heaven? ahh what?
per scripture there is no such thing and unclear which verses you have distorted to bring about this idea
Satan rules the earth and prior to rebelling he was one of the 3 archangels of which Michael and Gabriel
When Satan was cast down to earth His sin destroyed it ...this is why God RENEWED the face of the earth in Genesis because it already existed
---Rhonda on 9/1/10|
Don't know ant one else by that name, do you John?
---Carla on 9/1/10|
HE'S NOT CALLED LUCIFER IN SCRIPTURE!!!
It was an error carried over from the Latin Vulgate misinterpretation, to the KJV.
KJV was a very inaccurate revision of an Anglican Bible.
KJV was based its scripture solely on the Latin Vulgate. Not on the orginal Manuscripts.
---John on 8/31/10|
Our Father showed the angels His Son who was to be King of Heaven and Earth. He ordered the angels to bow down to Him and acknowledge Him as their King. Lucifer saw Jesus as "only a human', much lower than any angel. Lucifer said "No!" to the command and proposed a much more fitting king: Himself. That was the rebellion.
The book 'Techie Worlds', based on Abbott's Flatland, explains thoroughly these differences in 'being': the Holy Spirit, the Father, Angels and humans. It is available at Amazon
---George on 8/31/10|
Michael the arch angel is is the angel in charge of all the other angels he's the administrator if you will, like God is the administator and ruler. The Holy Spirit is the cummincator like Gabriel is the one who came to Mary to tell her she would be giving birth to Jesus. Jesus was sent to earth to shine the light of truth to the nations that all should believe.
---Everyonelisten on 1/12/08|
Lucifer was the angel of light to shine the light of glory on God. When Lucifer fell to sin the light went out. Jesus was sent to earth to save us so that we may have light to shine back onto God and Jesus through our actions, thougths and lifestyles so that God recieves the glory he deserves. John 17:5 is a great verse to help with this.
---Everyonelisten on 1/12/08|
Lucifer was the angel of light his job was to shine light on God. Follow me for a moment. I'm not going to try and explain the trinity because I can't. However, there are only 3 angels in the bible mentioned by name, Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer.
---Everyonelisten on 1/12/08|
Well the word "Lucifer" is many names, & is just a name, but look at his original name "Satan" ,this means "opposer",& "Devil" means "Slanderer"
When he saw what God was giving to Adam&Eve & not him he went & opposed against God & slandered his good name by deciving them.Satan was one of the leaders in Heaven before turning against God ,but not "the" leader.
---candice on 7/13/07|
Satan never existed 'til Lucifer sinned. I don't believe Lucifer/satan was ever in the third heaven, or "Shekinah Glory" where Echad's/God's throne is, else 'Lucifer' would not have had to "ascend up" to exalt his 'throne' above that of The Most High. The war had to have been fought in the 1st & second heavens. "Is the thing created greater than his Creator"? Where did satan's angels come from? Consider Job 1:6-12.
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 1/11/06|
Ann5758: Go to the blog question "Pray in the Holy Spirit" and see my scriptures about Satan was head of music in heaven.
---Fred_S. on 1/9/06|
Lucifer means Shining one. Satan means Accuser, Hater and Adversary.
He was an important Anointed Angel (Cherub) in Heaven, a coverer (keeper) of something important and the most beautiful creature God created. He had many abilities, was a musical creature (tabrets and pipes) and had wisdom and position.
His sin was Pride and great was his fall.
Read Ezekiel 28:1-19 for a full picture of this creature.
But there is none like Jesus.
---Elder on 1/9/06|
Lucifer [mentioned once in scriptures in Isaiah 14 chapter, & in Ezekiel 28:12-15], ceased to exist when he rebelled against Echad/God, known since as satan. If Lucifer or 'his' angels were in Shekinah Glory/Third Heaven [where Echad/God rules from], how could he have sinned or persuaded 1/3 of Echad's/God's angels to rebel, usurping some authority over Echad/God Himself? Ezekiel places him & his throne in the Garden 'In' Eden.
---Bob6749_[Elishama] on 1/9/06|
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That's interesting, Eloy. Where do you get your information that he was in charge of the music?
---Ann5758 on 1/2/06|
Lucifer means Luster-bearer. Isaiah 24:12 reads, "How have you fallen from heaven, Heylel, son of the early dawn? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations." He was one of the most beautiful chief angels in heaven, called a covering cherub, and was in charge of the music. But he coveted his Creator's throne and started rebellion in heaven. So he was cursed to the ground, sentenced and thrown out of heaven, and is awaiting his execution for the everlasting lake of fire.
---Eloy on 1/2/06|
I don't think scripture actually says what Lucifer's job was in heaven. From what I understand, he was an angel of light, but what his purpose was, other than serve God, I'm unsure. He caused rebellion in the heavens by trying to exhault himself to be like or higher than God. God banished him, there was war in heaven, and Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels in heaven who chose to follow him were thrown out of heaven to earth. See, angels have free will, too.
---Ann5758 on 1/2/06|