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Someone Back From The Dead

Can a person bring someone back from the dead? It seems to me some here have done it and if they were not there those people would not be alive.

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 ---Lupe2618 on 1/3/06
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Oh Dory, I will pray that your decision on the jobs is the right one for you and your family. I always pray for you anyway. actually I just finished praying for everyone here on the website. God is good to us and thank you for your comments. Love you
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06


Sister Dory, I guess I said something wrong again. I know you don't throw food. Just humor. I know you are busy so I will not bother you with discussions. I believe enough postings have been enough on Word Faith for now. I am so busy studying other things right now and just came from a funeral. Not a good day but Praise God He is good and I thank Him for everthing.
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06


Lupe, I'm the mother of boys ... I don't throw food, they eat everything in the house! :) By the way, I'm still waiting for your email about KC. You better hurry, there's a possibility that I may be too busy in the near future to get into a heavy discussion. (I could use prayer as I have to make a decision between two job offers.)
---DoryLory on 1/13/06


Sister Dory, I am glad you didn't throw me with one of your muffins. The one's you were cooking.
---Lupe2618 on 1/13/06


2. Like Moses, Paul is saying that the message of salvation is plain and understndable. This verses or passages teach a spiritual life with Christ. The one that believe in Him had the promise of eternal life; while the one who refused to believe faced eternal death (John 3:1-36). Every person faces this same choice. This teaching is not talking about bringing someone from a physical death to life. It is talking about Salvation, eternal life.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06




Bro. Ricky, I read the Scriptures you mentioned in Deut. and if you go to verse 15 of that chapter Moses pinpoints the choice-to love and obey God is life and good, to reject God is death and evil. If they chose to love God and obey His Word, they would enjoy all God's blessings (v.16). If they refused to love and obey Him, they would be severely and immedately punished (vv. 17,18). Paul, in speaking about salvation in the NT, makes use of this appeal made by Moses (Romans 10:1-13).
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06


2. Our faith is according to "The will of God" not our will. God knows what we want and what is right and just. We don't. People are selfish and prideful. No man can make God depended upon man. He gives us that faith to believe in Him. "His will." Not ours. He gives us gifts, each one for God's purpose. Not ours. A complete surrender to His will.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06


Let me say what I see happening, It seems to me that, you will and you will have. You can will something so hard and the mechenism starts and somehow you activate God into the picture and because of your "force of faith" God responds. You will to not be sick and you are not. You will to have money and you have it. You will to bring someone to life and suddenly they do. Yet if they don't, you blame the person for not having enough faith to come back to life. Somehow, something is very wrong.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06


3. lay in failure to make God-rather than their own gifts-the object of their confidence. Ultimately it is the will of God and our prayers should always be according to the will of God. That is our Faith as Christians. In God and not in ourselves.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06


2. the qualifying thought that is explicitly added by 1 John 5:14: what we ask for must be "according to His will." Verse 21 teaches that the problem was the disciples failure to make God the object of their faith. If you go to Matthew 17:19 "Why could we not cast it out" When Christ had send the disciples out ("chapter 10:6-8) He explicitly commissioned them to do these kinds of miracles. Less than a year later, they failed where they had once succeeded. The problem
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06




Sister Darlene, I will answer you first. The passage you have given is not saying people can move mountains. True faith, by Christ definition, always involves surrender to the will of God. What He was teaching here is nothing like positive -thinking psychology. He was saying that both the source and the object of all genuine faith-even the weak, mustard-seed variety-is God. And "with God nothing will be impossible" Luke 1:37. "Nothing will be impossible" Here, Christ assumes
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06


Alan, it was a piece from a TV program, Miracles II, after she got sick, she had prayed for God to let her rear her son. After being pronounced dead for two hours, she came back to life. They said this woman was brain dead. Today, she's fine! Her family and church friends, laid hands on her and continually prayed ....
---Nellah on 1/11/06


We are all a gift from God, that helps us serve him. We do not all have the same gift. Not all of us can through the power of God, in Jesus name heal people. 1Corinthians 12:27-30 Even better than all the gifts he lists, is love. 13:1-7
---Ulrika on 1/11/06


We can lengthen our days on earth.
1. Honouring our parents. Exodus 20:12 Deuteronomy 5:16
2. By diet and exercise, walking.
3. Not being reckless can help you to avoid getting hurt or killed.
We do not have control of the events around us.
5. Loving and obeying God will lengthen our days. Deuteronomy 30:20
However, we will all die at the appointed time. Hebrews 9:27
6. Unless we are still alive when the Lord comes, and church is taken out. 1Thessalonians 4:16,17
---Ulrika on 1/11/06


Lupe, I'm sorry if you think I'm upset or offended ... let me assure you that I am not. I've enjoyed this discussion but I think we've exhausted the subject ... don't you? If you want to continue discussing Kenneth Copeland's teaching, I would be happy to do so privately. You have my email, just write me.
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


Yes folks can raise folks from the dead. Jesus said, in John 14:12, "the works that I do shall he do also". Death is our choice. Deuteronomy 30:19 shows that we can choose life or death. Proverbs 18:21 shows that we live or die by what we say. God doesn't call people to heaven & say your finished on earth. He needs us here.
---Rickey on 1/11/06


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Lupe , I must correct you, with due respect ,the Bible says faith can move a mountain . Matthew 17:20 Jesus said - if ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed , ye shall say unto this mountain ,Remove hence to yonder place ; and it shall remove ; and nothing shall be impossible to you . Also Matthew 21:21 &11:23 .
---Darlene_1 on 1/11/06


To Everyone that has been offended I will say I am sorry. But have to say they are false teachers preaching a different gospel. Christians have two choices, find out if its true or get angry at me and throw me with whatever chair or book you want. No one can cheat death. When God calls, you go. No faith is going to stop God's ultimate decision. It is His calling along. No faith can change a volkwagon to a Cadillac. No faith can move a mountain. God is not subject to the "Force of Faith".
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


Dory why do you think this statement got through "anytime in the past when I've tried to defend Kenneth Copeland, the moderator has not posted my submissions" if the Moderator was so concerned about you defending him? Could it be the way you are saying things?
---Elder on 1/11/06


2. Maybe you have had reason to check. Maybe your experience was different then mine. but what matters is what is been taught. I have not had anything taken off by the moderator because I believe they understand what I am talking about. It is not about us, it is about Christ gospel. I will do what you say and not answer your questions. I sure didn't want to see you angry or even thought you would, love to you too.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


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Dory, I am sorry you went through a lot in life. I suppose most of us have. Because a person stands up to defend the truth many get mad. Loyalty should be for Scripture no matter who speaks. No matter what denomination. If someone puts something down I don't agree I will answer with what I know. They don't have to believe me if they don't want. We should check if what they teach is wrong or not. We don't have an obligation to anyone but God.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


Thanks Darlene. The faith people need a boost like that every now and then. They operate in an area that causes ridicule with those who walk by sight. Darlene, you have what your mom had. Just go and use it. It's alive, it will grow.
---john on 1/11/06


Darlene, what a blessing and encouragement you are to all of us! Thank you for sharing that experience!
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


Pt1
Lupe, no wonder I can't recall most of the remarks you are quoting ... you are going back 20 to 30 years! I don't know if these particular quotes are true or taken out of context (as some by you and others have been ... because I wasn't even a Christian in 1982) ... but do you not allow room for growth? Have you never believed something, taught someone that belief, only to discover later that you hadn't had it quite right. Isn't it time to get over stuff from 20+ years ago?
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


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Pt2
Lupe, you know from our private emails that anytime in the past when I've tried to defend Kenneth Copeland, the moderator has not posted my submissions. For that reason I have a problem with you attacking him in this blog. That's totally unfair.

Re: "you have no reason to doubt them because you have not experience what others have." -- That's a rather bold statement. Are trying to tell me that I have never had reason to put the faith teaching to the test?
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


Pt3
Perhaps I haven't had your experiences but I've been through a few of my own. How about two miscarriages, one when I was home alone with a 2-year old and no vehicle. I hemorrhaged and nearly bled to death. Or when my 23 month old baby fell into a campfire. Do you know what "therapy" is like for a burn victim? It's torture ... complete and utter torture! I battled (and was delivered from) a spirit of depression ... another son was a teenage drug dealer ... shall I go on?
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


Pt4
Lupe, I feel we've come to an impasse with this and I think it's time to drop this topic. God bless you, brother. Thank you for the discussion.
---DoryLory on 1/11/06


It seems that many have given certain ministries the label of being "faith people" as though it is a dirty word . Some have gone overboard with "Name It and Claim It" which really has nothing to do with faith ,just twisted Theology . I have prayed so many times God make me a Faith Walking woman . I saw my Faith Walking Mom pray for a dead man who came back to life , and she never touched him ,only held her hand above him . Oh , that we all could have that kind of faith now .
---Darlene_1 on 1/11/06


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3. and three nights. Unfortunately for Satan, Jesus was taken to hell "illegally" because He had never sinned. This "technicality" enabled God to use His "His force of faith" to revive Jesus spirit, restore Jesus divine nature, and resurrect Jesus body. Through the resurrection process Jesus was "born again." Spoken by Kenneth Copleland in "Jesus Our Lord of Glory," Believers voice of victory (April 1982).
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


2. and that God was in Him, he never actually claimed to be God" spoke by Kenneth Copeland. Or "In order to redeem humanity, Jesus had to die spiritually as well as physically. When He died spiritually, he died in the same way that Adam died. In other words, He lost His divine nature and was given the nature of Satan. Jesus death on the cross and His shed blood did not atone for our sins. The atonement took place in hell through the devil's torturing of Jesus spirit for three days
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


We are having this discussion because you answered me. I am sorry I am not with you on this. I also want to make sure that I don't offend anyone. I would think, and maybe just me, that we as a body of Christ would want to find out if our learning is correct or not. When statements as, "While on earth Jesus was wealthy, He lived in a big house, had a great deal of money, and wore the finest clothes," Charles Capps. Or "Although Jesus declared that he walked with God
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


3. Many critics have stated that the Word Faith gospel is "perhaps the most subtle heretical system to emerge in our own times. Another has refereed to is as "a form of transcendentalism or Gnosticism (from which come such metaphysical cults as Christian Science, Unity School of Christianity, and now the Health and Wealth cult). After studying the difference in theology one can see how they are able to convince so many with words. But one has to check to know.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


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2. After checking through much work and a careful study anyone can see that Scriptural words are made to mean something else to favor their points and get another message out that is not Scriptural, it is a group of man and women who teach a different Gospel. They twist Scripture to fit their purpose and it works great for them. I mentioned, you have no reason to doubt them because you have not experience what others have.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


Dory, I gave the example of Joyce to show that of all the people I have checked and listen to myself, (not someone else listening,) have not heard her say anything unScriptural. Now it may be that she has and I haven't heard it. I have to check for myself. I cannot say someone is bad if I don't know and hear it on the net. If they give something to prove they said something I will read it. It would not be fair for me to speak against someone if I don't know. Not everyone in the Word Faith is bad.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06


Pt1
Lupe: Re: "As for you not agreeing with me, it is because You have no reason to question their words." - I'm not following your thoughts here. What are your trying to say?

*You* listen to Joyce Meyer and *you* have no problems with what she preaches?!!! I am shocked speechless! What the heck? Joyce Meyer is a Faith person!!!
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Pt2
I don't listen to Joyce very often because the times I did listen to her program (years ago) she spent too much time asking for money. I refuse to waste my time listening to someone beg for money. My feeling is, faith preachers better practice what they preach or I turn them off. If they can't believe God for the resources to support their ministry they don't belong in ministry. That's just my feeling.
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


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Pt3
So far I've only found two Faith preachers who qualify. I'll listen to the others only very occasionally. From my observations, Joyce Meyer qualifies as a Faith preacher. So, why are we having this discussion?
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Children dying terrible deaths. Yes the cause is sin. Yet through sin, God is able to show His mercy, His love, His forgiveness, His wonderful grace. So sin plays a big part in God's world order, but certain deaths are just not right. As you said, without sin no one would die and just think of how many people would be alive. Just my feelings.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


Adam our representative. Representative is not in Scripture. Scripture tells us that, By one man's disobedience the many were made sinners," Romans 5:19. "Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned." Romans 5:12. Through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation" Romans 5:18. What I meant is that Adam was made not only the father but also the representative of the whole human race.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


Dory ... "But my understanding is that man would live forever if it were not for sin" We would need birth control?.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/10/06


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4. My loyalty is not for anyone out there. I love my church but if they teach wrong I am gone. I don't care what denomination it is so long as they teach the truth I will stay. God has given us enough discernment to realize when something is not right.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


3.It hard for me to answer you on the podium because I am afraid to say anything to hurt you or others. I know there is many out there that follow this guys and have no doubts about them. I listen to what is said of Joyce Myers and I have always heard her say good things. I have never heard her say anything wrong. If she did I would not listen to her no matter if I liked her or not. I take notes to learn about God and when something is false a red light goes on in me.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


2. If something had not happen to me I too would be doing the same. When my wife was accidently killed at Kaiser hospital I began to check on them and found out many people die there by their incompetence. I learned a lot after searching the web. Without that happening to me I would not know. With the word faith, my sister died, and I began to question my faith and what I was believing through the word faith. If that had not happen to me I would still be following them.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


Hello Dory, first, I want you to know I am not at odds with you at all. I am not at odds with Scripture at all either. And no I have no problem with reading Scripture on faith. The problem is the Word faith teachers and how they interpret faith to make it work for their favor. Of course our faith increases as we grow in the Lord and read His word. That is one reason why I don't believe in losing our salvation. As for you not agreeing with me, it is because You have no reason to question their words.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06


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Pt1
Lupe, I believe we are to base our faith on the Word. If God said it, that settles it. If we say the Word can't mean what it says because such and such happened to so and so - that is basing our faith on circumstances. Admittedly I could be misunderstanding because our words are limited in these forums, but that's what I think I've been hearing you say.
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Pt2
Re: Romans 10:17 - when faith comes it increases, does it not? We are given "the measure of faith" at the new birth and then through the Word more faith comes, and more faith comes, and more faith comes ... that's increase.

I don't understand your question about Adam being our representative. Do you have a scripture verse?
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Pt3
As far as children dying violent deaths ... I can't imagine how God can watch all the abuse that goes on in the world ... I really don't. But my understanding is that man would live forever if it were not for sin. It's sin in the world that causes all our problems. I believe that John 10:10 supports this (the thief being Satan).
---DoryLory on 1/10/06


Nellah ...can you clarify your story? you appear to say that the woman, who had been dead for two hours, asked God to raise her son. I think something must have got mixed up in transmission?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/9/06


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Lupe ... I am finding this blog difficult to follow, so am not going to enter the discussion! But one thing you said which I do not understand. You asked "First, why did God make Adam our representative" I can't see that God did that. Adam was the first man, and sinned. Therefore we resemble Adam, but he cannot represent us since he is dead. Can you explain what you mean? Thanks
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/9/06


I watched the TV program Miracles II, there was a woman who had been pronounced death for two hours ... she asked God to let her raise her son. Family, church friends were at the hospital praying, laying hands on this woman. God brought her back to life!
---Nellah on 1/9/06


No person can bring anyone from the dead, dear friend. Only Jesus! It takes a simple faith to believe everything the Word says and stand on that faith in total trust.
---Ann on 1/9/06


3 First, why did God make Adam our representative? He was a lousy one at that, and second, why does God allow little children to die such vicious deaths to evil man? In my eyes that is one of the most terrible things that happens in life. One day I will understand unless someone here knows why. I sure don't. Dory, I don't have all the answers and never will. I do have a great understanding of Scripture with the exception of Revelations completely but one day I will make it my whole study.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06


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2. Dory, the verse you put down Romans 10:17 does not state that faith increases or grows. It is talking about how our faith comes. It comes from hearing. verse 14-15, Pauls main point in this series of rhetorical questions is that a clear presentation of the gospel message must precede true saving faith. True saving faith always has content-the revealed word of God. Salvation comes to those who hear and believe the facts of the gospel. I do have two questions that have bothered me
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06


Dory, you say I am still basing my faith on my circumstances but all I have written is basing my faith in Christ and not on myself. I don't see how you cannot see that. That I don't agree with their teaching is another matter. But my faith is in Christ always. That is why I believe in what I believe. Not one time have I based it on what I can do or not do but what Christ can do through me. The day I believe I can do this or that I will replace God with myself just as I once did.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06


Pt1
Lupe, my dear friend ... you are still basing your faith on circumstances. As tragic as these stories are, you can't nullify the Word of God because someone ran ahead of God or missed God.

No one receives greater faith by willing themselves to have it, neither does begging God for more faith work. The Bible says that faith COMES (increases, grows) by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). There aren't any shortcuts, faith is never of our own making. It can only be gained God's way.
---DoryLory on 1/9/06


Pt2
Because of such tragidies, ministers now advise people to always consult their doctor before discontinuing medications. (It truly was a sad lesson for the Body of Christ to learn. Actually I have a friend who, back in the 70's, lost a little boy the same way.) However, the fact remains that God says 'according to your faith be it done unto you.' Therefore I would suggest that rather than excuse God's Word away, if you have a problem with His method of operation, you really must take it up with Him.
---DoryLory on 1/9/06


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Pt3
We know from the Word that God is the healer and that He wants His children well. When it comes to receiving from God, faith is of the utmost importance but it is not the only factor. Therefore we should never judge anyone who didn't get healed. Only God is able to judge because only God knows all the factors involved. Our directive is to do those things that will build up our faith in God and our confidence in God so that it's available to draw upon when needed.
---DoryLory on 1/9/06


A-servant. Jesus didn't lie. He spoke the truth to His disciples. We are doing greater things. We are bringing God's Word to others, the good news of the Gospel. We were not called to go around raising people from the dead, that is a job for God. How many from the thousands or millions of followers have you seen raise someone from dead? That God will heal others is true. That He also lets others stay that way is also true. If He wanted, He could heal everyone, but as we know, He doesn't.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


Jn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Does Jesus lie? Did Jesus say His works & greater works would be limited to Peter & Paul?
---a_servant on 1/8/06


2. You are a good person John, and thank you for what you said about been sorry for what happened to me. This subject does not change our salvation as Christians but we should be careful what we learn. It can bring false hope and much doubt in our faith.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


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John, your answer is exactly what I want others to see. It is God that ultimately will decide what will happen. We have a love for others so we pray and ask God to do His will, He already knows our will but it is His will that we trust as Christians. Its God's decision who lives and who dies. The reason I find it troubling about man doing things is that little by little they began to have faith in themselves and not on God. They go right back from where they started.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


6. that physical healing for all is guaranteed. Nowhere in Scripture is perfect physical healing for all promised before the resurrection and glorification, which will occur at the final judgment (Rev. 20-22). Healing came from Christ at His will, regardless of the individuals faith. He healed those who believed (Matt.8:13) and those who did not believe (John 9:1-38). So ultimately it is God's will that will be done and our faith is in His judgement no matter the outcome. His choice is wise and just.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


5. First, Scripture nowhere states that Jesus healed everyone who was ever brought to Him during His lifetime. The Apostle John, at at the end of his gospel, noted that "many other things" were done by Jesus that were not recorded. We do know that what was recorded, including the healings, were recorded so that "ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name" (John 20:31). They were not recorded to convince us
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


4. later was with so much pain she begged the doctors to do something but it was too late. When something similar happened to me I wanted to know the truth. I wanted to find out why my wife died, my sister, my mom, and my dad all in two years. Of course I wanted to believe in them so bad. I was with my sister and I begged God to give me that faith, whatever it took to heal her. Others prayed for her and so I thought maybe my faith is not good enough but others might.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


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3. of three small children, died of breast cancer after she and her husband Douglas decided, through "the influence of TBN," to positively confess her healing and forego medical treatment. Another, While in her mid-forties, doctors told F. Elizabeth Scott that she needed treatment beause she had breast cancer. Instead of undergoing medical treatment, she trusted the teachings of her favorite Bible teachers, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, and Marilyn Hickey. Mrs Scott
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


2. Others have not. Countless tragedies have resulted from such thinkings. One of the most widely publicized cases involved Lary and Lucky Parker, who, rather than giving insulin to their diabetic son Wesley, followed Word Faith teachings and positively confessed his healing. After Wesley died in a diabetic coma on August 23,73, Larry and Lucky were tried and convicted of manslaughter. Thousands of equally tragic stories often go unnoticed, Thirty eight year old Christine Klear, mother
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


Hello sister Dory, I love you with all my heart because I know your heart very well, but it is important for others to know what is going on to people. while you mentioned one case I can mention many cases where people died because they followed those teachings. They stopped taking medication and died. They believed that if they had enough faith they didn't need it. The question is, what amount of faith does it take to bring someone to life? I do base many of my experiences because I have been there.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06


Len K Why did you tell us that? Do you have a faith, or do you just interject to destroy? What DO you believe?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/7/06


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Pt1
Lupe, I hear you so often basing your faith on circumstances. We're to base our faith on the Word ... on what God says. If God says we can do it, that means it's possible. Of course the new birth is the most miraculous event that could possibly happen to a person. No one is denying that. But does that mean there can't be other blessings or other miracles?
---DoryLory on 1/7/06


Pt2
There is a difference between believing God CAN bring a person back to life and believing that God WILL bring a person back to life through your prayers. Jesus continually asked, 'where is your faith?' ... 'why do you have such little faith?' Other times He commended people for the great amount of faith they had. There are different levels of faith.
---DoryLory on 1/7/06


Pt3
To lay hands on a dead person and believe that God will bring that person back to life takes a tremendous amount of faith. It's not something you (normally) could just decide to do. You can't wake up one day and say, 'I feel like raising someone from the dead today.' Faith has to be cultivated and nurtured ... it has to be strong and unwavering to believe for these types of "un-natural happenings."
---DoryLory on 1/7/06


Pt4
When you say there aren't any documented cases where someone has been brought back to life, you are mistaken. A short while ago a young man was killed in car accident in Africa. His wife brought his already embalmed body to the church where Reinhardt Bonke was preaching. They would only allow her to take him into the basement and there, while Reinhardt was preaching, Daniel came back to life.
---DoryLory on 1/7/06


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Pt5
Years ago, Paul and Jan Crouch were hindered from sending a television signal by a mountain that was in the way. Circumstances were that they couldn't move the signal so they prayed and asked God to move the mountain. One day they woke up to see the mountain abuzz with bull-dozers clearing away land for a new building development. Co-incidence? I believe it was an answer to prayer.
---DoryLory on 1/7/06


Lupe. Yes. I agree. It's not me, or anyone, who would move the mountain, it's God. But God uses people. It's not the power of anyone, but God. We are only the minister of His grace.
---john on 1/7/06


Len-k, you must wake up to just see how you can discredit Scripture. All your comments are just like 1 Cliffs. you two must belong to the same faith. He tries so hard just as you do. The reason we believe Scripture is because it can only be Truth if Christ lives in you. Otherwise it is a joke to those that don't believe. We might not understand all of it but we believe that in our life times it will help us through our walk with Christ.
---Lupe2618 on 1/7/06


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