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Are You Condemned To Hell

If someone today writes inspired and therefore infallible words, what is the fate of those who through ignorance or lack of intelligence, challenge what has been said. Are we condemned to hell?

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 ---alan8869_of_UK on 1/4/06
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Catherine, You say we're all on the way to hell from birth, and that no babies will go. You are correct with the BIBLE. There is more to learn about the children.
---Johnny_5 on 1/21/08

We are all on our way to hell the moment we are born. No babies will not go. Still we are on our way. You are condemned to hell as long as you remain lost, without Jesus Christ. I was just thinking some of us will go to heaven a kicking and a screaming. It doesn't matter as long as God gets us there. Just do not renounce your salvation. Even though you may be kicking and a screaming. Having to put up with the devil all of the time, I am sure that you get my drift.
---catherine on 1/21/08

I meant if we challenge what has been said by those who TODAY write those inspired words. It was difficult in Bible times for folk to recognise what inspired words were being spoken then ... we now recognise those words and they have been explained to us by our pastors and others. But those which are spoken today, say on these blogs, how are we to identify them as inspired?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/21/08

Lupe; I'll start a new blog shortly and spell out in detail my belief (or my opinion) based on many years of religious study . I have trouble locating this blog it's slowly getting burried! The subject is broad and we are only 2 of some 7 billion on this planet!
---1st_cliff on 1/16/06

1 Cliff, you say you go after fundamentalist, but in reality you go against anyone that presents you with Scripture, if those are the ones you go after then you do go after the Christian. Like I said, you have a different agenda and intention. Not the work of God's Word for it is not His Word to you. Cliff, you have mentioned why you are on, now, what is it that you believe? You know what others believe now how about you? I am not going to witness to you, just wondering what you really believe.
---Lupe2618 on 1/16/06

Nellah: IMHO fundamentalists have strayed about the same as Scribes,Pharisees,Sadducees etc of Jesus' time , who thought they were God's chosen.
---1st_cliff on 1/15/06

1st cliff, what's wrong with fundamentalists? Before you pull a splinter out of my eye, you'd better get the board out of yours! Answer to Alan's question, maybe through challenging those words, we can learn more about the truth. Hell? Not for me to say.
---Nellah on 1/15/06

Lupe; I don't really try to prove "all" Christians wrong ,just fundamentalists (which happen to be the majority)who I believe are wrong! The great thing about living in a free nation, is the freedom of religion. Some things never change tho, in ancient times if they didn't like the message, they killed the messenger!
---1st_cliff on 1/15/06

2. You must go to sleep wondering what you can rebute the next day. I myself believe this is not the work of God. That is just my opinion because your statements warrant that. I do think you are a good guy but with a different agenda.
---Lupe2618 on 1/14/06

Cliff, please give me a break. If I answer anything you will not believe it anyway. I put something down and you answer with another. I give Scripture and you twist it around as you please. I have read all your post on others and I can see how you think. You have no regard for Scripture to begin with and giving you something will come from Scripture. So why even try. You hang around this website to prove all Christians wrong. Not to learn or see if God can reveal anything to you.
---Lupe2618 on 1/14/06

Lupe; You didn't answer my last question. Which one do you believe?
---1st_cliff on 1/14/06

2. I try not to learn other denominations because I believe it can confuse you in your faith. You seem to know of others as a friend of mine does and he doesn't know what to believe. He is so confused and always questioning everything. I believe as I wrote before that we have to be discipline and honest when we read. We have to find out why. It is like x-files, we need to find the truth. One answer, Christ. He is the Truth. Not an object or thing, but Christ Himself. Without Christ you have no Truth.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06

Let me say this Cliff, in the beginning in my walk I never wanted or had an interest in knowing what others taught. I was so excited just learning what I was learning. I didn't know much of scripture as a Catholic but what I mean is that I began to learn about Jehovah Witnesses because my sister was one. I found everything I could to help me know what they taught. For four years I did that and later my sister died for not taking the blood on her operation.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06

Rebecca; When Jesus told Peter to "feed my sheep" he wasn't talking about food. He was talking about the ones that never went to seminaries (or even to school) Their lives are in the hands of those who teach them! Dispensing spiritual food is an awesome responsability!
---1st_cliff on 1/12/06

I used to wonder..what hope is there for those who do not read well or are unable to grasp all the profundity of scripture?
Begin with asking for wisdom. Search the scripture daily. When you are a baby, you eat soft food. As you mature, you can handle more. It's the same for spiritual things..when you are ready, it will be made plain to you.Does "take my yoke upon you and learn of me for my burden is easy and my yoke is light" mean that, if you didn't go to seminary, well, too bad for you!
---Rebecca on 1/12/06

Lupe; I don't belong to anything because I don't "fit in" John 1.3 says Jesus was co-creator with his Father and that's what I believe! I'm familiar with the NWT,book of Mormon and the Quoran! It's things like this IE nowhere in the Christian bible does it say "immortal soul" (or never dieing) but in the Book of Mormon Alma 42.9 it says "the soul can never die" Which one do you believe?
---1st_cliff on 1/12/06

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1Cliff, you say, you don't know where I get the idea you don't believe Scripture, well I get it from all of your answers. You argue to its authentisity. Inspirit Word of God. Heck you don't even believe Jesus is the Creator. You say you are indepentant but you must belong to something. I would do better answering you if I knew this way I could take out the New World Translation or the book of Mormon or even the Koran. Right now I really would not know where to start. I am sure you are a great guy.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06

Lupe; I don't know where you got the idea that I don't believe the bible! I have said before that I don't believe Paul was inspired (but that's my opinion) I guess I could best be described as an independant Christian (for lack of a better term) nondenominational! I think believers in Paul are "Paulites", difficult for them to "proove" anything without quoting him! Jesus is the Way,Truth and Life.
---1st_cliff on 1/12/06

Cliff, I don't understand why you said that Paul didn't write the whole bible. I don't think I mentioned that at all. I wanted to share with you a few things but like I said, in order for me to discuss them I have to give you references from scripture but you don't believe Scripture so what I would put down you would not understand. It would be better if you told me what faith you are and maybe we can debate that way.
---Lupe2618 on 1/12/06

Lupe; You know better than that! Paul didn't write the whole bible. God has every right to remove evil ones from this earth,which He has done many times. He was clear from the beginning that life or death was our choice! To paint God as a saddist is quite another matter and aids satan in his smear campaign.
---1st_cliff on 1/11/06

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Cliff, one of the worse stories I read is found in Deut20:16,17. The slaughter of the canaanites by God's command. Here we are asked, How can we reconcile such appalling harsh commands as these with the doctrine so plainly taught in the New Testament that "God is love" (1 john 4:8)? I was going to explain to you by giving you references from Scripture but then I remembered that you said that you didn't believe the Bible was the inspired Word of God.
---Lupe2618 on 1/11/06

Lupe; Regardless of what JWs believe, the truth is not just in 1 place. If you want a point to debate why not the God defaming belief that hell is a literal fire! created for the sole purpose of torturing humans endlessly, then turn around and say "God is love"!
---1st_cliff on 1/11/06

This the best lunch break I ever have: reading the discussion between Lupe, Ralph, John, Alan, Ulrika, 1st Cliff and others. Some words for 1st_Cliff: tone down a bit. Being too negative and being rough on people cause some reactions to arise.
---Linda_6546 on 1/10/06

Cliff, I am glad you answered. like I said, we don't have to agree on everything. I saw what you wrote but don't know how to answer what you wrote. I ask to be honest and sincere with your answers. This is for learning and nothing more. What is your question to debate? Take one at a time. Jehovah Witnesses always want to take you all over the place to confuse you but we can do one at a time.
---Lupe2618 on 1/10/06

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Lupe; You know Jesus never defined the Kingdom,only saying it is like unto... A Kingdom is a King and subjects Jesus ,as King said He would take some to heaven to co-rule as kings In a nutshell,I see today that fundamentalists say "we're all going!" Jesus said "I" choose (not you)JN.15.16. God did not create the earth and humans for the purpose of populating the heavens,He already had 100million angels (Dan7.10) The earth was made for man (Isa.45.18 Psl 115.16) this is our home!
---1st_cliff on 1/10/06

5. not only does God open our eyes in answer to our prayers to behold wonderful things out of His law(Ps. 119:18); He also opens our eyes to look straight through a difficutly that seemed impenetrable before we prayed. One great reason why many bible readers have learned to be destructive critics is that they have forgotten how to pray. Cliff, you are welcome to debate. Lets talk Scripture. Lets find the truth. We don't have to agree on everything. if you seek you will find.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06

Cliff. I see no resemblance between Jesus' attitude and yours. I only need to read a little ways before the love of Jesus for everyone jumps out at me and attracts me to Him. Your rough corners will round up a bit. And when you meet an adulterer at a well you will have compassion and release her before throwing the law at her. You too, will have mercy before judgement because I think you love God. He will work good in us all.
---john on 1/9/06

4. with determination, Make up your mind that you will find the solution, if you can, by any amount of study and hard thinking. Without fear, and with patience. According to Scripture, If we find a difficulty in one part of the bible, look for other Scriptures to throw light upon it and dissolve it. Nothing explains Scripture as Scripture. And most of all with prayer. It is simply wonderful how difficulties dissolve when one looks at them from his knees.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06

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3. Here is what I say about Scripture, it has to be read honestly, when we run into difficulty we should acknowledge it. not try to obscure it or dodge it. untold harm has been done by those who, in their zeal for the infallibility of the Bible, have attempted explanations of difficulties that do not commend themselves to the honest, fair minded man. People have concluded that if these are the best explanations, then there are really no explanations. Next, with humility. We should deal with them humbly.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06

2. I have a brother that has a photograhic memory and has read Scripture many times and he does what you do. He thinks that because he is smart and knows so much that he is right and we are all wrong. But like I told Eloy, you might know much but without understanding you understand nothing. The difference between you and my brother is that you mention you want to seek the kingdom of God. He doesn't. A person that seeks does find. A person that thinks he knows it all does not seek God.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06

Cliff, you can speak of the kindgom of God to me anytime. I love to speak of it. I enjoy talking about Scripture so much that when someone tries to discredit it I answer the way I do. I don't know who you are and what you think or what you have learned. I only say what I say because of what you write. None of us have it all correct. We know that, but we want to know so we discuss many things. Elder and I have answered to you only because of what you stated. Most of it is negative to every Christian.
---Lupe2618 on 1/9/06

Lupe; you're right my posts have been negative,but Jesus' talked negative to the "religionists" of His time,because they should have known! He preached "positive" to the meek and humble (who didn't jump on every word He spoke) Mat.9.35 Jesus set out preaching "the good news of the Kingdom" We are told to "seek 1st the Kingdom" I'd love to talk about the Kingdom,but it's hard to hit a home run when you can't even get to 1st base!
---1st_cliff on 1/9/06

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I don't doubt many of them are saved, but they will have to answer for what they have said to so many, that have died because they stopped seeing a doctor or take medicines. They deceived others and even if they are saved they will have to answer for been responsible for so many people. Are they Christian? I don't know, but the teachings are wrong and effect many as they effected me.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

5. Many here might not think that is important but our whole concept as Christians is that we failed on our own and we need God. If we have faith in ourselves so that God can do things, we become the primary and God secondary. We say, and He does. How mixed up is that? My whole arguement to others is that our salvation is dependent upon God in us. Not how we get it or keep it. It is all about God not us. I read where sister Dory said to Rev-Herb that he was going to be surprised to see them in heaven,
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

4. Having faith in your words is having faith in your faith. That's what you've got to learn to do to get things from God: have faith in your faith." Written 1989 "The God-king of Life" Now lets look at this statement, first he said you need to learn, He wants for us to depend on ourselves. he then tells you to have faith in you, He didn't say have faith in God. He wants others to learn to have faith in themselves when Scripture tells us to depend on God.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

3. Many of the doctrines are linked directly to the mistaken concept that faith is a literal substance, "a power force. a tangilble force..a conductive force" According to Kenneth Hagin, faith in one's own faith is the secret to getting every desire of the heart. You see this "one's own faith?" Here is what he said, "Did you ever stop to think about having faith in your own faith? Evidently God had faith in His faith, because He spoke words of faith and they came to pass..
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

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2. I will never say they are not saved. God knows the answer. It's their relationship with Christ that matters. If they are saved as many Catholics are, it mean they have to answer to why they pray to idols and so many other things but it is their relationship with Christ that it effects. If some Christians want to follow the Word Faith teachers its their own relationship that it effects. The problem with Word Faith is that it effects many people that are deceived out of their money with false hopes.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

Alan, no one has the right to condemn someone else. I speak many times about things that I have learned or studied to help others. So do others like Bruce and Elder and all the sisters. We all stand in the same essentials of the Christian faith and that is what makes us Christians. Though we differ in many things within Scripture it does not change the fact that we are Christian. The SDA's might have a problem with others on the Sabbath but that is their problem and does not effect the others.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

3. Another thing, I am not condemning you one bit because I don't know what God is going to do with you. Only He knows. You see Cliff, you might be one of the elect. Yes, even with your thinking you might be waiting in the wings and not even know it. So you can continue to do what you think is right but ulimately it will be God's will that will be done.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

2. If you don't want to follow the essentials that is your choice. When I write then it is for others. Many here, like I said, have a different experience. When I was saved my experience was different then someone that maybe was born into a Christian family. Some of us go through some very serious things in life and our conversion seems to be different then others. Some of us have a passion to learn and what to know. But at least we are looking at our relationship with God with desire and hope.
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

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1 cliff, I have read just about every answer you have given. Not one have you done to edify another Christian or none Christian, just in your answer again you are justifying your point. Now let me say that I don't want anyone to believe in me, I want everyone to believe Scripture. Now since you don't, my answers do not pertain to you. Since you don't believe it is truth. No one has has it all figured out. If they did they would be God. But the essentials of the Christian faith do not change
---Lupe2618 on 1/8/06

Lupe; Was Jesus out to destroy the faith of the Scribes an Pharisees when he condemned them? Was that His mission? Did He not point out their errors? Were they upset? Did they find fault? Did they not end up murdering Him? They said "our father is Abraham " (in other words we have it right ,you have it wrong) Self righteousness is a powerful motivator ,as we learn from scripture. Wake up to write "againt God" how ridiculous!
---1st_cliff on 1/7/06

Just go by what is in scripture. Scripture is what is inspired. 2Tomothy 3:16
It is good to challenge people's opinions. They may be wrong, unscriptural, or taking scripture out of context. Some people are not interested in giving and learning truth. The Bible quizzes are helpful.
---Ulrika on 1/7/06

Lupe, #2 But many others have said that unless we agree with such-and-such a detail belief, we are not Christians. I listed some of these details which are so essential to some. They cannot all be right, and some indeed are in total contradiction.
Now I believe in certain detail, but do not say those who disagree are destined to go to the fires.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/7/06

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Lupe, #1 my friend, I understand that you speak with love, and that you do not condemn. You have never told me that I will not go to heaven becasue I do not go along entirely with yuor idea of predestination, and that I only chose to accept Christ because God decided that I would. There would be little point in debating that further, but as I say you have never said i am not a Christian because of our different understanding of HOW I became one.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/7/06

4. When I speak against them I know it will effect many here on line that follow them. I don't want them to go through what I went through listening to their false hopes. It brings disappointment and a person could lose all hope and begin to blame himself for not having enough faith. The faith we have is in God along. Though we might not know everything, we trust God's will in our lives. Whether it measures up to our standards or not. This is the concept of a Christian. Not in ourselves but God.
---Lupe2618 on 1/7/06

3. I know inside of me that if I speak Truth, God will use it on someone that needs to know, yet I myself don't know who that person is. If someone speaks lies, they will influnence someone that is not strong in faith and scripture. When I speak of the Word Faith it is because I have experience death many times with my family and have made a great study to learn about what they teach. I have books and articles and tapes that show what they teach.
---Lupe2618 on 1/7/06

2. All come from different walks of life and have experienced many things others have not. When a person has the love for Christ as Lord, his intention is good but might not be correct in interpreting scripture very well, yet they are on line trying to help with limited knowledge yet their hearts are right with God. I have read so many answers from many and just reading them you can see the ones that are out to distroy our faith. To the others I try to help.
---Lupe2618 on 1/7/06

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Alan, most of the people on line that write something, do write some truth of Scripture. Depending how they have learned. When they do write they write from their standpoint of revelation. Now some wake up to write against God. People like 1 Cliff, wake up with another agenda. How they can show the bible wrong and how they can prove Jesus is not God. Their hearts are not on how they can help, but how they can distroy our faith. Their intention is to discredit Scripture and Jesus.
---Lupe2618 on 1/7/06

Condemnation and assignment to eternal damnation or hell has been one of the most useful instruments employed by cults to keep their people in line. Usually these groups deny most of the basics of the christian faith particularly salvation as a gift received by faith alone in Christ alone usually adding some works of obedience of some sort often to the leadership.
---lee on 1/6/06

People have been challenging God's Word since its inception. God converts & saves whom he will.

Is 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Challenging God's Word is not the problem. No one understands everything He says.

Jn 3:19 . . . men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Not submitting to God and the convictions He places into your heart are the problem.
---a_servant on 1/6/06

Ralph ... # 4 I believe it would be much better if the blogs were discussions ... people could put their view and explain the reasons, without getting so cross about things and telling others that they cannot be a Christian.
I know I am exaggerating, but it is not too wildly.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/6/06

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Ralph ... # 3 Baptises/ Does not baptise/ believes in Trinity/ Does not believe in Trinity/ and the one that started my thoughts going, a Christian who sins is not a Christian. You know Ralph, there is so much dogmatic theology going on here that any non-Christian visitor will be thoroughly confused, and depart baffled.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/6/06

Ralph ... # 2 Thus, I have heard from various people on these blogs that one cannot be a Christian if one: Does not believe in OSAS/ Does believe in OSAS/ Smokes/ Drinks alcohol/ Speaks in tongues/ Does not speak in tongues/ Suffers from depression/ Is ill/ Votes democrat/ Tythes/ Does not tythe/ Does not worship on Saturday/ Does not believe in 6x24 hour Creation/ Accepts women pastors
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/6/06

Did the heavens forever close when the canon of the Bible was finished?
---len_k on 1/6/06

Alan, I know who and what prompted you to ask this question. The thought crossed my mind as well. If a person's writings do not contradict our established bible, there shouldn't be a problem whether or not the writer feels that he is divinely inspired. A person who claims to be "expanding" on scripture, contradicts it or himself, or who exalts himself rather than God is worthy of suspicion. Our bible is quite sufficient the way it is.
---ralph7477 on 1/5/06

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Alan; Keep in mind that the bible is not an idol, but a reference collection of sacred writings. Jesus confirmed some of the OT writings as inspired! The NT is a documentry of the "life of Christ" including His "spoken words" The apostles were His eyewitnesses. Luke and Mark wrote from 2nd hand info. Paul never met Jesus (except in a vision?) no one else "heard" that conversation. You make your own judgements.
---1st_cliff on 1/5/06

NO!! You are not condemned to hell. First of all no one can write inspired and infallible today. Because to do so they would have to COPY the bible, so that would not be their words.The bible is a finished work. Mr. Smith or Mr. Rustell or Mrs. White did not write any infallible words.---mima-1/4/2006
---mima on 1/4/06

Alan, I have written many inspired-given by the HG/God words, but that doesn't make them infallible, because I am still human and nothing a human does is infallible,we sometimes miss the mark . Some of the Apostles had others write their letters down for them and in the process some words were changed,or so I learned taking Bible in College , human error or artistic liberty . No hell for a challenge only get that for disobeying God, for not keeping the written Word known as a Bible .
---Darlene_1 on 1/4/06

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