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Does Your Soul Die

When you die, does your soul also die?

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 ---Lynn on 1/6/06
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We need take a good look at revelation it only says that Satan the beast and the false prophet were tormented in the lake of fire death and hell and all others were burned up in the lake of fire never to exsist again this is what is meant as the second death I believe that the lake of fire that burns with fire and brimstone is like the fire and brimestone that comes from volcanos
---rffjcorg on 4/3/09


Hell kills the wicked that is why going into it causes the Second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Since it results in death it is not eternal life. Eternal life is only promised to the Righteous. Yet you say GOD gives it to the wicked. Where does the Bible say it?
---Samuel on 1/27/09


Samuel, Daniel 12:1-4, is speaking of two resurrection of the dead. Ecc. 12:7 "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, (man from dust) And the spirit will return to God who gave it" The Lord gave and the Lord taketh away. The resurrection of both believers and none believers bodies will happen, tough it is not said the time between one and the other. All bodies will return to earth when they die, and when those bodies resurrect one is going to heaven, the other is going to everlasting Hell. That is the Word of the Lord. You can call hell whatever you wish, but it will be ugly and it will be forever, I don't want to find out if it is everlasting fire, shame, contempt, torture, or whatever means God will use.
---MarkV. on 1/27/09


Again Daniel 12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contemp" Sorry Samuel, it will be everlasting contemp in hell for those who rebelled against God.
---MarkV.

To have everlasting contempt does not mean they have eternal life or are living. You have to change the meaning of the words to get that. I have contempt for a number of dead people. That does not make them alive.

Do you agree with this verse that says the dead are asleep in the ground?
---Samuel on 1/26/09


Samuel, you say the wicked will die and cease to exist. I am sorry but you are half right. They will die a physical death for the wages of sin is death, but they will also receive bodies ready for hell, where they will receive eternal torment. Mark 9:47-48, "It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire where their worm does not die and the Fire is not quenched"MarkV.

Yes the wicked will go to hell. But as Isiah 66 points out which JESUS is quoting
in mark it is the carcases or corpses that are burning up. In the garbage pit. Like the one outside Jerusalem.

YOu still have not shown where the wicked are promised eternal life?
---Samuel on 1/26/09




Samuel, you say the wicked will die and cease to exist. I am sorry but you are half right. They will die a physical death for the wages of sin is death, but they will also receive bodies ready for hell, where they will receive eternal torment. Mark 9:47-48, "It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire where their worm does not die and the Fire is not quenched" Again Daniel 12:2 "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contemp" Sorry Samuel, it will be everlasting contemp in hell for those who rebelled against God.
---MarkV. on 1/24/09


Samuel, the soul that sinneth shall die, for the wages of sin is death, spiritual death and physical death. But through Christ we are born again of the Spirit and promised eternal life with Christ. Our physical bodies will still die, but we will receive a new body that is glorified if we have faith in Christ merits on the Cross for our sins. Our corruptalbe will become incorruptable, our mortal bodies will become immortal. That is the word of the Lord. MarkV.

Amen and Amen I agree with what you wrote here. We currently are Mortal but will recieve as a gift from GOD immortal bodies that will be perfect.

The Wicked will die and cease to exist.
---Samuel on 1/23/09


Samuel, the soul that sinneth shall die, for the wages of sin is death, spiritual death and physical death. But through Christ we are born again of the Spirit and promised eternal life with Christ. Our physical bodies will still die, but we will receive a new body that is glorified if we have faith in Christ merits on the Cross for our sins. Our corruptalbe will become incorruptable, our mortal bodies will become immortal. That is the word of the Lord.
---MarkV. on 1/23/09


Yes your soul does live forever because everything that God breathe life into never dies. But the question is where will your soul live? Heaven or Hell?
---Deno on 1/22/09


The Bible says when you die you spirt goes back to God from which it came your soul lives on foever
---Betty on 1/17/09




Best wishes to you Geoff, come back and visit the site when you can!
---Anne on 1/16/09


Thanks Anne. Today's my last on CN. I must leave it to the Holy Spirit and others like Samuel to defend what I believe is the truth-John 16:7-13. The bottom line is that today is the day of salvation-2 Corinthians 6:2. There is no repentance in the grave. Let's choose to follow and serve Jesus while we have life.
---Geoff on 1/16/09


Geoff and Samuel~ Thanks for your responses.
I have not been following along with the discussion you have all been having so I can't really contribute...but yes I agree that all must be read in context.
---Anne on 1/16/09


Anne, the definition of "for ever" depends on the context. In Hebrews 13:8 it clearly means continually. But tell me, is Jonah still in the belly of the fish at the bottom of the ocean? Jonah 2:6.

Nana, you got stuck on "all that do wickedly," in Mal 4:1,3. But I was asking how you reconcile that "ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet." Ashes, not live coals. In this case "for ever" means until complete and irreversible.
---Geoff on 1/16/09


I always thought 'forever and ever' meant eternally. What is your definition of 'forever and ever?' Anne

It depends on the context. The KJV Bible uses for ever as two words.

Exd 21:6 and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul, and he shall serve him for ever.

Here it means as long as they live. Use a Bible search engine and you will see it uses both ways.

Reconcile Malachi 4:1,3?
It speaks of the manner of the first death, "and all that do wickedly", not did but do. Nana

No. I have seen many wicked people dying without being burned up and tread on by those who are righteous. This must be the Second death.
---Samuel on 1/16/09


Only your body dies. Your spirit goes either to heaven or hell. If Jesus lives in your spirit to heaven you shall go instantly to be with the Lord.
---catherine on 1/16/09


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Geoff~ I always thought 'forever and ever' meant eternally. What is your definition of 'forever and ever?'
---Anne on 1/16/09


Geoff,
Revelation 19:20: "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These ,both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10, The devil joins. "...where the beast and the false prophet are" Speculate and assume "*their state is "eternal" and "everlasting" existence*"?
No my friend, at least a 1000 years had passed between the incidents!!!

Reconcile Malachi 4:1,3?
It speaks of the manner of the first death, "and all that do wickedly", not did but do.
---Nana on 1/16/09


Nana, that's Rev 20:10 (not 19:20)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You only speculate *their state is "eternal" and "everlasting" existence* a reasonable assumption, but not stated.

How do you reconcile Malachi 4:1,3?

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up... that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this.
---Geoff on 1/15/09


"The wicked are not promised eternal life"
Samuel

"These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.", their followers slain (Rev 19:20). The deceiver of the nations, that devil joins their company. The trio, "shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." What part of "ever and ever" you fellows don't get? Their state is "eternal" and "everlasting" existence.
Samuel, the SOUL of the false prophet, whether in the flesh among the living or among the dead, is dead nonetheless, unless you side with the serpent! And if only one "false prophet" will for "ever and ever" be tormented, you have no case.
---Nana on 12/19/08
---Nana on 1/14/09


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Thanks MarkV. Even spiritually alive people die. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" 1 Cor 15:22. But isn't that what the resurrection of the righteous is all about? Resurrecting those who love Jesus? "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years" Rev 20:6.

As Samuel says, the gift of eternal life is given to those who don't already possess it.

Only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords, Who only hath immortality... 1 Tm 6:15-16.
---Geoff on 1/14/09


MarkV, Whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

Yes, but when?

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing. 2 Tm 4:8.
---Geoff on 1/14/09


If one soul dies and the Scripture says that souls that sin die then that proves that no one has by nature eternal life. Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If eternal life is a gift then it is not something we already have. If we do not have it then we are not immortal. But mortal and subject to death.

Nana I do not know which questions or statements of yours I have not answered. Please restate them. I apologize for missing them.
---Samuel on 1/14/09


Geoff, "The wages of sin is death" That is why everyone dies a physical death. Sin has cause everyone of Adam's descendants to not only permit the person to get old, but also to die. All that are not under the Covenant of Grace are under the Old Covenant that has sentenced them to die. When we come to Christ are crucified with Christ, and become spiritually alive. We have a new life in us that is eternal. I hope that helps you.
---MarkV. on 1/13/09


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I addressed Samuel 12/19 and Geoff 12/12 and you did not repply. Not that you have to repply but without dialog we start sounding like Benny Hill, "I got a lovely bunch of coconuts!" perchance you are not trying that Jedi mind trick by repetition?
---Nana on 1/13/09


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance-2 Pt 3:9. Today is the time to repent-Heb 3:15.

But who may abide the day of His coming? For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up... that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." Mal 3:2, 4:1, 4:3.

But if we love and obey Jesus we don't have to worry about that.
---Geoff on 1/13/09


Thank you Geoff for defending the truth of the Bible that GOD is not so weak or cruel that he tortures people for all eternity either because he cannot kill them or that he wishes to give people pain.

It is said that we use circular reasoning. That is partially true. We go to the Bible read it see what it says and quote it. When asked questions we return to the bible quote it and follow what it says.

Those who say the soul is immortal cannot go to the bible since it never says that. 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The spirit and soul are not the same thing. Two different words some overlap in meaning.
---Samuel on 1/13/09


Nana, what "unanswered points" and "circular reasoning"? Tell me, is Jonah still in the fish? Jonah 2:6. Will slaves be serving their masters in heaven (or hell)? Ex 21:6. Does Gehazi still have leprosy? 2 Ki 5:27.
---Geoff on 1/13/09


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Geoff and Samuel took a vacation leaving behind unanswered points. They come back once more and pick where they left up, with the same circular reasoning. jerry should not be far behind.
---Nana on 1/12/09


MarkV, Rev 20:10 says "And the devil... was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone... and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." V9 says they were devoured. The Bible doesn't self-contradict. "For ever" sometimes means a long time-Jonah 2:6, a lifetime-Ex 21:6, until death-2 Ki 5:27, or eternity-Ex 15:18. If you have ever been through a trial like Jonah's it seemed like eternity, but it wasn't now, was it? Jesus said the wicked would "go away into everlasting punishment"-Mt 25:46, not punishing. This is consistent for the Bible says "the wages of sin is death"-Ro 6:23 and "the soul that sinneth shall die"-Ez 18:4, 20. So what happens in Rev 20:10 is complete.
---Geoff on 1/12/09


Geoff, I don't know what Bible you are reading but it must be another. "The devil, who decived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" If they are tormented forever and ever day and night, doesn't that mean they will feel pain for ever and ever?
Concerning Jesus on the Cross, talking to the thief, you said, how can Jesus be in heaven that same day, since Jesus had not yet been to paradise for three days. Before Jesus died He said, "Father, into your hands I commit My Spirit" The Spirit of the Lord was with the Father. The Spirit of Christ is deity.
---MarkV. on 1/11/09


Where in the Bible does it say that "man ceases to exist"?
---Gordon on 12/27/08

Last time I offered Ps 146:4 "in that very day his thoughts perish," but also consider Ps 104:29

Thou hidest Thy face, they are troubled: Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

And that's consistent with God said in the first place-Gen 3:19

Till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

See also Gen 2:7, Ec 3:20, 12:7
---Geoff on 1/11/09


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Yes when you die your soul dies. For we are a living soul.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.



Psa 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea, and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.
---Samuel on 1/5/09


jerry6593,
The passage 2 Cor 5:10 was from the NIV. Where you said, "Nana: Your version of 2Cor 5:10 contains the word "while", I say that neither the NIV, nor the KJV are my "version". The NIV I find, better declares the matter of "whether present or absent". Rev 2:7: "... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.". While living is the "overcoming", Rev 2:5. After that, the true Spirit (God knows) will be judged and the soul will reap what it sowed, and Man will be "as the angels". There is the "resurrection" and the "resurrection of the dead" and they are not joined at the hip.
---Nana on 1/3/09


Thanks, Gordon, for correcting (and confirming) what I wrote. Some people say that there is going to be a display that NASA will put on, but I think it is actually Satan's army coming down. With 911 safely done and dusted and hardly anyone aware it was an inside job, the devil's angels must be very powerful and confident that they can deceive the masses. Also the fluoride in the water helped to dumb down the adults,add to the mix the controlled media, and Bob's your uncle. It isn't rocket science to fool the mind controlled millions, with the help of minions who will step in and make out that anyone who is onto this plan is imagining everything.
---frances008 on 1/3/09


Kathr *Paradise before the resurrection of Jesus Christ was in the lower parts of the earth. Paradise/Abraham's Bosom/Sheol are all the same location. Now Paradise is called the Third Heaven. Paul was taken up to the third heaven. Jesus is not in the third heaven... Before the resurrection of Jesus Christ this is where the righteous soul went. The unrighteous soul went to Hades...a GREAT Gulf away. Now our souls are IN CHRIST...*

Now it's getting ridiculous. Where in the Bible are we to find all this? Certainly NOT in Colossians 3:1-4.
---Geoff on 1/2/09


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I Believe God resides in the third heaven.
I believe the evil angel of Persia , the evil angel of Greece along with other evil angels reside in the second heaven.
I believe the moon and the star are in the first heaven above the earth.
---mima on 1/2/09


Frances 008, Actually, the place where Satan's UFO's are residing is in the Second Heaven. The First Heaven is the skies above the Earth, the "blue sky". The Second Heaven is Outer Space. The Third Heaven is where GOD's Throne, the Heavenly Mansions and the holy Saints and Angels dwell, located beyond the Second Heaven. And, yes, Satan is planning a fake rapture with his army of demonic aliens. It will be a test for the true Saints of GOD, also.
---Gordon on 1/2/09


I believe the third heaven is where the UFOs (fallen angels) reside. I believe that there are fallen angels running the NWO. It sounds so way out, I know. But it is Biblical. There is a lot in Enoch, Job, and Genesis to support this - as well as other places in the Bible...including the New Testament.
---frances008 on 1/2/09


kathr: The third heaven IS where God the Father sits on His throne. The first heaven is our atmosphere. The second is outer space where the stars and planets exist. God's throne is in heaven. The river of life flows from it. The Tree of Life spans that river. The Tree of Life is in Paradise. Hence, Paradise IS the very same Heaven where the Father and Jesus dwell. Do you need the scriptural references, or can you find them for yourself?
---jerry6593 on 1/1/09


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Geoff, Paradise before the resurrection of Jesus Christ was in the lower parts of the earth.....Paradise/Abraham's Bosom/Sheol are all the same location.

Now Paradise is called the Third Heaven. Paul was taken up to the third heaven.



Jesus is not in the third heaven but at the right hand of GOD!!!

I don't have a problem, because this is what scripture and what Jesus said with His own mouth.

Before the resurrection of Jesus Christ this is where the righteous soul went. The unrighteous soul went to Hades...a GREAT Gulf away. Now our souls are IN CHRIST.....We are hid with God IN CHRIST...***Colossians 3:1-4***
---kathr4453 on 12/31/08


MarkV, *when does "...tormented forever and ever..." not mean "tormented forever and ever..."?*

Rev 20:10 no more tells us that the wicked, the devil, beast and false prophet will live forever, any more than Jonah is still in the bottom of the ocean-Jonah 2:6.

"I went down to the bottoms of the mountains, the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God."

My dear Kathr, the *man who died next to Jesus..Jesus said TODAY you will be WITH ME IN PARADISE!* You have a problem because three days later Jesus had not yet been to paradise-Jn 20:17. If the man preceded Jesus then His words were false.
---Geoff on 12/31/08


Gordon, *Where in the Bible does it say that "man ceases to exist"?*

You will find this in Ps 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

See also, Job 34:20, and Ps 37:36. It is because man is not immortal that God kept him from the tree of life-Gen 3:22-23.

Gordon *"Die" and "Death" does not mean "cease to exist" WHEN IT PERTAINS TO MANKIND.*

Where in the Bible do you get this stipulation? Eccl 2:14, 16 "One event happeneth to them all."
---Geoff on 12/31/08


Happy New Year, MarkV! Praise God! I appreciate our dialog.

You said, "No, I am not saying that the souls of the creatures died in the sea." But Rev 16:3 is saying just that - "every living soul died in the sea." And you are correct. Gen 35:18 tells us Rachel died, but where do you get the information that her "soul went back to God"? Bible doesn't interchange soul and spirit. Maybe you are assuming Phil 1:23 says "depart[ing], and [being] with Christ" are simultaneous, but that speculation contradicts the rest of the Bible-Job 14:14, Acts 2:34. V29 says "David... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
---Geoff on 12/31/08


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Nana: Your version of 2Cor 5:10 contains the word "while" ("while in the body"), while the KJV does not. This would indicate the pagan concept of a separable "you" temporarily inhabiting a real body. If that supplied word is removed, the entire meaning changes. You must be careful not to add to the holy scriptures!
---jerry6593 on 12/31/08


jerry6593,
At the judgement, the days of "earning" are in the past, it is a time for "receiving". Seems like our dusty selves will not be present either, what will you do without your dusty self?
2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." Because Paul states, "one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body", simply, we are not in the body. Don't you think you owe Paul the same insult, "old-fashioned satanic..."?
---Nana on 12/30/08


Geoff, Where in the Bible does it say that "man ceases to exist"? "Die" and "Death" does not mean "cease to exist" WHEN IT PERTAINS TO MANKIND. Look up the word "die" in Noah Webster's Dictionary, also, that from 1828. Noah Webster was a godly man who showed reverence for the Holy Scriptures when he wrote out the Dictionary. Secular authors of many of today's dictionaries do not know GOD, nor do they accept His Holy Writings, so they, therefore, cannot at all understand what really happens at Death. I Cor. 2:14 says "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of GOD: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
---Gordon on 12/27/08


Nana: "Intesting proposition, given that neither "dust", nor "breath" are considered at the Judgement.
---Nana on 12/23/08"

And just what is considered in the judgement? Is it not exclusively WORKS judged by the standard of the LAW? Please explain how a disembodied, self-existent soul-spirit-thing can perform works. What you espouse is nothing but plain, old-fashioned satanic spiritualism (Ye shall not surley die - Gen 3:4).
---jerry6593 on 12/27/08


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***Many invent crazy stories about compartments of Abraham's bosom, paradise, heaven and hell,***

Geoff, this statement you made here is a total contradiction to your last statement. Jesus Himself tells us of Abraham's Bosom and Paradise, heaven and hell. And Lazarus, by NAME. These departed souls were consciously AWARE of their surroundings. As those spoken in Revelation who ask a question...HOW LONG? Not to mention teh man who died next to Jesus..Jesus said TODAY you will be WITH ME IN PARADISE!!!!!

You can't expect anyone to take you and what you say seriously if you yourself don't take ALL of scripture seriously. Talk about picking and choosing!!!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/26/08


When one dies, it's like they really haven't died. One still exists to himself. If they have found themselves existing in hell i.e. flames and torment surround them, then it's like their burning alive (yet considered dead because they can't escape).
---Carla on 12/26/08


Geoff, Since when does "...tormented forever and ever..." not mean "tormented forever and ever..."? You see, all of you who are opposing the Doctrine of the Eternal, Tormenting Damnation ask for Scripture Verses to support the stand on Eternal Damnation, and when the Verses are presented to you, you say that they do not really mean what they say! You are twisting GOD's Word around to satisfy your itching ears for a SMOOTH, easy-to-swallow doctrine, that is sweet to the tongue, but, will be bitter in your belly when all is said and done, IF you do not repent of your heresies. "...tormented forever and ever..." MEANS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS "...tormented forever and ever..."
---Gordon on 12/26/08


"Mark, "the soul" IS "the person," the combination of dust and breath."
jerry6593 on 12/22/08
Intesting proposition, given that neither "dust", nor "breath" are considered at the Judgement.
---Nana on 12/23/08


OH Nana!!! That was BEAUTIFUL!!!!
---kathr4453 on 12/26/08


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Geoff, blessings, No, I am not saying that the souls of the creatures died in the sea. I am saying that the creatures died in the sea. The passage is not talking about human beings or their souls. Gen 38:18 is talking about Tamar not Rachel. You must mean 35:18. I believe Rachel's spirit/soul went back to God. If you read Philippians 1:19-26 you will have to attest to that by the words of Paul. And in 2 Cor. 5:1-10, which again explains the assurance of the resurrection. "but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. v. 8 "Well please that to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
---MarkV. on 12/26/08


MarkV, are you saying the souls of all other creatures die, except mortal man's? Rev. 16:3. And Gen 38:18 tells us that death is associated with Rachel's soul departing. Well where did her soul go? Likewise, I'll revert to my old unanswered questions: where does a box go when dismantled or where does the light go when the switch is off? Many invent crazy stories about compartments of Abraham's bosom, paradise, heaven and hell, rather than dealing with the fact that the Bible teaches at death one ceases to exist until God brings him back into existence. And why the resurrection? I've heard unsupported speculation about uniting the soul with the body, but haven't found it in the Bible.
---Geoff on 12/24/08


Geoff, thanks for your answers. I have looked at Rev. 16:3 in the KJV, the New International Version, and found that verse 16:3 the words "every living creature" is used for one reason. That reason is that Scripture was not talking about man, but was talking about every creature in the sea. Has nothing to do with man.
The other verse in Gen. 35:18 you assume that when the soul was departing it was dying but it does not say that. Here is what it says, And so it was, as her soul was departing (for she died), that she called his name Ben-Oni," Now stop right there. What was happening? The soul was departing, why? because she was dying. It does not say the soul was dying but departing because she died.
---MarkV. on 12/23/08


Mark & Gordon, when a person dies we are sad, not the person. We cry, they don't. We feel their loss, but they feel nothing. We know they are dead, but they know nothing-Eccl 9:5-6. But when Jesus returns there will 2 resurrections separated by 1000 years-Rev 20:5-6. What is the purpose if people are not dead? Then God will destroy death forever after sin and sinners are destroyed-Is 25:8, Rev 20:13-14.

Words like "tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Rev 20:10) don't contradict. It just means their punishment (not punishing) will be permanent-Ps 92:7. Severe punishment is often described as lasting forever-Ps 74:1. Just think of your last real trial-Jonah 2:6. It seemed endless, but it did come to pass.
---Geoff on 12/23/08


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Josef, "Yes!" to what you said, except for your reply about annihilation. The Gift of Eternal Life, through GOD's Son YAHUSHUA (JESUS), is for those who ACCEPT it! For "whosoever will" RECEIVE it! But, the stipulation IS, is that one must REPENT of their sin, and be willing to (learn to) walk in GOD's Holy Ways of living. The Bible is clear that without Holiness, no man will see the LORD. The whole point of YAHUSHUA shedding His Blood, was so that our sins could be washed away, and that we would start living like we were meant to live since the Beginning! In GOD's Holy Ways! So many people are not willing to give up some of their pleasurable, sinful ways for GOD!!
---Gordon on 12/23/08


"Mark, "the soul" IS "the person," the combination of dust and breath."
jerry6593 on 12/22/08
Intesting proposition, given that neither "dust", nor "breath" are considered at the Judgement.
---Nana on 12/23/08


Mark: "Jerry, I have looked at every passage in Scripture concerning soul. A person has two parts soul, the imaterial part, and body, the material part." I guess you're not very observant, as you missed the very definition of a soul in Genesis 2:7.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

The soul is not the breath of life, it is the result of the combination of the breath and dust. The "soul" IS the complete living person. It is not a separable, conscious being!

And when a man dies:

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.
---jerry6593 on 12/23/08


MarkV, None are so blind as those who will not see.
---jerry6593

I have looked at every passage in Scripture concerning soul. A person has two parts soul, the imaterial part, and body, the material part.
---MarkV

MarkV, care to share chapter and verse?

Scripture where the soul dies at the same time the body dies:

Every living soul died in the sea-Rev 16:3.

And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died)-Gen 35:18.

Would you have us repeat often the ton of Biblical evidence like Ezek 13:19 and others or does it really matter to you?
---Geoff on 12/22/08


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Jerry, I have looked at every passage in Scripture concerning soul. A person has two parts soul, the imaterial part, and body, the material part. When the physical body dies, the bible no were states the soul also dies. It does state it leaves. And in some cases can be killed by God.
You still have not given scripture where the soul dies at the same time the body dies. If you believe that, why don't you show with Scripture? It should be easy since you believe it.
---MarkV. on 12/22/08


Mark: None are so blind as those who will not see. You have been given much scriptural evidence - IN CONTEXT - but you refuse to look at it because it conflicts with your preconceived beliefs in spiritualism. You ask the childish question as to confirming that "the soul" dies when a person dies. Mark, "the soul" IS "the person," the combination of dust and breath. Isn't the person Mark more than just a body or a mind? Is there someone else living in you (other than [hopefully] God)? Wouldn't you think me childish if I asked "When Mark dies, what happens to Mark?" The answer is: He's dead. He no longer exists.
---jerry6593 on 12/22/08


Gordon:
Annihilation seems to me to be a very valid reason for the warning. Man was created for life and fellowship with the Father for the eternity. Life, for most, is precious and a gift to be cherished.
Therefore The Infinite Spirit, in the person of Jesus, took upon Himself the flesh and blood of a man "that through death He might destroy him that had the power [Legal effectiveness] of death, that is, the devil, And to deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." The resurrection of Jesus gives man the assurance of rising from the dead, the warning is there is also a second death. The punishment for sin is death. Life is the Father's gift.
---Josef on 12/22/08


Jerry, you guys spoke a whole lot and gave passages as always without context. But you still have not given me a passage that states that when a person dies a physical death the soul dies too at that time.
You can believe it can, you can say it might, you can call it a mystery if you like, but it is not in Scripture. There is a lot of infomation about souls, and I have given them all already.
Pick up a Lexicon, look for the Word soul, it will give you all the passages, what it means in different passages, do a little work for a change.
None have proven you are sinless, and none have given any passages that confirms what you say.
---MarkV. on 12/21/08


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Ezek 18:20, Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Gods gift of eternal life is a PROMISE to INHERIT WHEN Christ RETURNS to RULE Gods Kingdom on earth ...sin is NOT overcome until Christ reigns as King on earth

Dan 12:2 & 1Corin 15:46-57 ...Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.....
---Rhonda on 12/20/08


Mark: "Jerry, I don't have to count to make sure I'm correct. What I have to do is be honest, sincere without bias."

OK, then be honest. Do you believe the word of God when it says:

1Ti 6:16 [God] Who only hath immortality

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing

Eze 18:4 .... the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Act 7:60 And he [Stephen] kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep [died].

Joh 11:11,14 Lazarus sleepeth .... Lazarus is dead.
---jerry6593 on 12/20/08


Geoff, The Verse II Peter 3:9 "The LORD is...not willing that any should perish..." is true. But, that's indicating what GOD desires. He DESIRES that none perish. He freely offers people a choice of Eternal Life or Eternal Damnation. Once He offers this Choice, it is always up to mankind to decide to accept Salvation or reject it. Man was created with free-will. We choose EVERYDAY whether we want GOD and His Ways or not. GOD never forces His Ways on us, we have to CHOOSE His Ways to be able to benefit from His offer of Salvation. Do you force your girlfriend or wife to love you? Do you FORCE her? No, you'd rather that she love you freely from her heart. For, that way, you'd know that her love was real, not fake. GOD is the same way!
---Gordon on 12/20/08


Samuel, You stated correctly that the wicked shall not inherit Eternal Life. What they will inherit is Eternal Torments. They will be ALIVE, but, you cannot call being in a constant state of torments "Life". The Damned in Hell, and later in the Lake of Fire, will be existing in torments! GOD does not call that "Life". He calls that DEATH. Just being ALIVE does not mean that one has LIFE. Not, that is, the kind of LIFE that GOD is referring to, when He promises Life to His followers. Read Mark 9:43-48. READ IT CAREFULLY! It's a Warning to those who will enter Hell at Death! If people were merely "annihilated", there would be absolutely NO REASON for YAHUSHUA (JESUS) to warn us of this place He referred to in Mark 9.
---Gordon on 12/20/08


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"The wicked are not promised eternal life"
Samuel

"These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.", their followers slain (Rev 19:20). The deceiver of the nations, that devil joins their company. The trio, "shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." What part of "ever and ever" you fellows don't get? Their state is "eternal" and "everlasting" existence.
Samuel, the SOUL of the false prophet, whether in the flesh among the living or among the dead, is dead nonetheless, unless you side with the serpent! And if only one "false prophet" will for "ever and ever" be tormented, you have no case.
---Nana on 12/19/08


Samuel, what part of my answer am I wrong about? Bring the Truth to me in Scripture. You show me where in all the Bible does it say that the soul dies everytime someone dies.
You don't have to throw arrows, a copy, paste of the passages will do to prove your point and I will back up and say I am wrong. I am not asking for twenty or five or even two, just one.
---MarkV. on 12/19/08


Sure, no life, but you deny that they get eternal torment.

What part is the "fairly tale"? Nana

First no part of the torment is a fairy tale. The wicked will experience torment. But you state they will have torment without being alive.

There was one Pope who had his predecessor dug up and the body tortured and disfirgured. The RCC had Wycliff's body dug up and burned. But they truly suffered no effect from this.

YOu Mark will not do the count since it shows you are wrong. The soul is never called eternal.
---Samuel on 12/19/08


Jerry, I don't have to count to make sure I'm correct. What I have to do is be honest, sincere without bias. If you can find one passage that says, the soul dies everytime a person dies please put it down. I know soul is mentioned many times in Scripture and I've given passages where it doesn't die but leaves. Where it can be killed, etc. Each passage concerning soul has a context, I go by what the context teaches concerning each word in Scripture. If I counted how many times the word "whole world" or "world" and took it to mean every single person in the world I would be wrong. It has different meanings in different context. And if you were not so bias by your religion you would look for yourself what the true meaning is.
---MarkV. on 12/19/08


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Samuel *Will we be like those who torture people for enjoyment? The wrath of GOD is the Second DEATH [not life]. The wicked are not promised eternal life*

Ro 6:23
For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is eternal LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord

Everlasting life in hell is a lie and defamation of God's loving character

Is 28:21
For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that He may do His work, His strange work, and bring to pass His act, His strange act.

2 Pt 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
---Geoff on 12/19/08


MarkV: Please count the number of scriptures in the entire Bible that seem to indicate that the soul is unconscious after death and before the resurrection. Then count the number that actually state that the soul is immortal and conscious during this time. Please let me know the results of your own personal study.
---jerry6593 on 12/19/08


"The wrath of GOD is the Second death. The wicked are not promised eternal life. The Bible does not teach they have it."
Samuel on 12/18/08
Sure, no life, but you deny that they get eternal torment.
Sameas Jesus said, that there will be many false prophets, 1 John 4:1: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Rev19:20, the "beast" and the "false prophets" cast into the fire pit. Rev20:10, the deceiving devil was conjoined to the two mentioned in Rev19:20, with the net effect that they "shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
What part is the "fairly tale"?
---Nana on 12/19/08


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