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Sacraments Needed For Salvation

Which sacraments are a must for salvation?

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 ---mima on 1/11/06
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Bruce:
Matthew 3:7 The Baptism of John was the Baptism of Repentence and did not confer the Holy Spirit, yet he knew its value even at that stage.

Mark 4:4 Baptism is for the remission of sins.

Acts 19:4; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12;
2 Peter 3:18-22

John 3:3-26, unless you are born again, which in the full context means baptised, you will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.
---lorra8574 on 4/9/07


There are NO sacraments needed for salvation. Salvation is a GIFT from God with no strings attached. (Romans 6:23)
---WIVV on 2/11/06


Emcee:
"Jesus' baptism in the river Jordan- Gods Confirmation:"This is my beloved son In whom I am well pleased"Even you know that, baptism removes ALL sin for the first time."

What does that prove?
Are you suggesting that Jesus had original sin and it was removed by baptism?

And no, the moderator nor the rest of us non-catholics "know that, baptism removes ALL sin for the first time." Baptism removes nothing.
---Bruce5656 on 1/20/06


Water baptism doesn't remove sin only the blood of Jesus does. Revelation 1:5 and Ephesians 1:7 points that out. The must for salvation is faith.(Ephesians 2:8-9; James 1:6-8; Hebrews 11:6) We can't please God w/o faith.
---Rickey on 1/20/06


Moderator:Jesus' baptism in the river Jordan- Gods Confirmation:"This is my beloved son In whom I am well pleased"Even you know that, baptism removes ALL sin for the first time.

Moderator - Please quote me because I don't know what you are responding to. Thanks.
---Emcee on 1/20/06




Alan :: You have a fertile imagination-Good -Baptism can be administered by any lay person even yourself.John the baptist was not a priest,yet he baptised Jesus.
---Emcee on 1/20/06


Emcee ... Emcee ... another point, what about delays? Say the preist is conduvting a wedding and this new-born baby is dying and the priest does not get there in time to baptise it? Does it go to hell?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/17/06


Emcee ... Thanks. Actually, being an Anglican, I was baptised as a baby (don't rememebr a thing about it) But now having though about it all, I do not accept that an act by a man, pouring water over a baby, is essential to that baby's salvation if it dies, nor that that baptism is an essential for an adult.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/17/06


Alan::#1Baptism removes Original sin & therefore essential to get to heaven.#2Acceptance of Jesus is also essential because it acknowledges the fact that you have accepted Jesus as your saviour.BUT it does not remove Original sin .#3Baptism does NOT lead us to a sinless life as it would then remove our free will which is given to us by God.Consider this one fact you accept Christ But still have the sin of O/S on your soul which you acquired from your 1st Parents,now with that sin can you enter heaven?

Moderator - Please show the scriptures that Baptisms removes original sin. Thanks.
---Emcee on 1/17/06


Emcee ... I do not know whether you are sayig yes to my three questions or no. I will say what I believe.
I do not believe that baptism by itself will save.
I do not believe that baptism is essential ... the acceptance of Christ is what counts. Baptism is an outward declaration of one's faith.
As to babies, I do not believe that baptism will make any difference.
I do not think that baptism enables us to live a sinless life ... we can't do that anyway.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/17/06




Alan:: What I have stated is clear in my Mind as running water if you concur with me then the answer would be affimative. I am not aware of what your concurrence is.
---Emcee on 1/16/06


Emcee ... at present, what you have previously written leads me to think that the answer to each of those questions is "yes" although your latest answer on no 3 indicates I might have misread you.
It is as well that those with whom we discuss things understand what we mean, don't you think? At present, you have neither corrected nor confirmed what I think you have said.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/15/06


Mima;; This forum is meant for enlightenment Jesus was God -had no sin- Please do not insult your own intelligence,The Baptism of Jesus is to be found in Matthew 3 V;15 -I7& acknowledged by the Holy Trinity--Mk1V9-11--Lk4;4 V14-15.Jn!V29-34
---Emcee on 1/14/06


Alan what good would an answer do you If you do not read my Answers.You are restating a question With YOUR words Read Jesus's words.#3 I did not say that baptism enables you to lead a sinless life.You are inventing. Catholics avail of the sacrament of Penance Or Reconciliation to keep in Gods Grace Christians do not think this is necessary The bible says otherwise.luke 13 V5:Jn20:19-23.I am not here to haggle but tell it as it is.
---Emcee on 1/14/06


Emcee; By your understanding did JESUS get baptized to remove the sins of our first parents?
---mima on 1/14/06


Emcee .. # 3 The third is: ... "You said that baptism enables you thereafter to live a sinless life. Do you really mean that? If so, why do Roman Catholics have to go frequently to Confession to confess their continuing sin?"
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/14/06


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Emcee .. # 2 the second is: "Do you believe that Baptism is enough to get you into heaven, and that a personal conviction and turning to Christ is not needed?"
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/14/06


Emcee .. # 1 Why do you not just answer my questions? I will restate them
The first is: "Do you believe that you cannot enter heaven if you have not been baptised, even if you have repented and accepted Christ as your Saviour"
Is this what you believe, or not?'
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/14/06


Elder Alan MP::The confusion lies in your comprehension.Grace & Baptism are 2 different Things like an arm & a leg but both belong to the same body.Grace is a gift given by God for your acceptance of him & your belief in Him.Baptism is a Rite which removes the sin of our First parents--since nothing defiled enters heaven.one who dies without its removal cannot enter Heaven--because you have sin!!That is why Baptism is essential& usually administered at birth
---Emcee on 1/14/06


Bruce(Romans 3:21-28) Amen to that, but it does not say faith alone! Try again.. Read James 2:24
---ruben on 1/14/06


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Emcee with the other confusion you have posted are you trying to say Baptism is more important than Grace? Your view of Baptism and works is totally wrong but if it weren't wouldn't it be a display of God's Grace?
You confuse yourself with your own statements.
People use Scripture reference posting to you and you argue and never use Scripture.
Why?
If you are believing in what you say then you are Lost.
---Elder on 1/14/06


Emcee your answer to Alan on 13th is simply not scriptural. Many of your comments on here seem to be based on things that you are told or read but not on what scripture tells us. You say "However having been born into sin we need to remove this by baptism" The bible makes it clear that it is Jesus who removes (forgives) our sin, not the water at baptism. This is just symbolic and simply makes us wet. The views which Alan proffers are biblical ones.
---M.P. on 1/14/06


PART ONE:
Romans 3:21-28, "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
---Bruce5656 on 1/13/06


PART TWO:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
---Bruce5656 on 1/13/06


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Bruce::Are you not boasting when you say that the gift of Grace absolves you from your sins? Where is the humility in the act of grace which states he Who humbles himself shall be exhalted. There is also the danger of Presumption .One should not take god For Granted, he is a merciful God Fair but exacting.DO NOT PRESUME ON HIS MERCY.we all have our mode of transport as we dawdle or go with the flow of lifes stream--Do we fight the current Or just glide along Is the all important question!!
---Emcee on 1/13/06


Then how many works must one do to be saved? Would the amount of works not put a child at a disadvantage for the amount of time that child has on the earth? Is grace something that God gave or man? Which would you trust?
---steve on 1/13/06


Emcee ... you now add something new which I find surprising from you. You indicate that baptism enables you thereafter to live a sinless life. I don't think you mean that because if it were the case, why do Roman Catholics have to go frequently to Confession to confess their continuing sin?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/13/06


Emcee ... The other half of what you have seemed to be saying is "Baptism is enough to get you into heaven, a personal conviction and turning to Christ is not needed" Your latest blog does not answer this point. Do you believe that or not?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/13/06


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Emcee ... I clearly am not able to understand what you say, or you are unwilling to confirm or deny what I think you are saying. I think your earlier and latest blogs say, in effect: "you cannot enter heaven if you have not been baptised, even if you have repented and accepted Christ as your Saviour"
Is this what you say, or not?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/13/06


Bruce Romans 6:23 Amen to that and as far for Ephesians 2:8-9, well again you left out verse 10. Again it is not by FAITH ALONE! In James 2:24 " We are justified by our works, NOT BY FAITH ALONE."
---ruben on 1/13/06


Bruce:Your sins are of your own making & have nothing to do with God except that he forgives them. One cannot continue in this vein and so we need to readjust our lives and try to be perfect as our Heavenly father is Perfect.Your sins are purged only in Confession--the other sacraments are embodied to help keep you in the state of grace. That is why we have free Choice.
---Emcee on 1/13/06


Alan:: You have an unquestionable way of putting words in ones mouth Baptism & salvation are 2 0pposite sides of the spectrum.Whilst they go hand in hand yet they are dependant.Explain-- Acceptance of God entitiles one to salvation.provided one lives a goodly sinless life.The Gift of Grace enables us to achieve this.How ever having been born into sin we need to remove this by baptism.Because with this stain you cannot enter Heaven.Its so simple & I do not understand why you proffer other views.
---Emcee on 1/13/06


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Ruben,
Romans 6:23, "...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

A gift cannot be earned, purchased or worked for. Only accepted, or it is no longer a gift but a reward.

If it were something I could earn, purchase or work for, then I could say "Look what I have done." (boast)

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
---Bruce5656 on 1/13/06


Ruban I don't want you to think we are ganging up on you so I won't say anything except Bruce is going to refer you to
Rom 10:9-13.
You would be wise to pay attention to him.
---Elder on 1/13/06


Bruce your verse of esphesians 2;8-9, you left out vesre 10."For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do. as you see it is by FAITH and WORKS and not FAITH ALONE, please read James chapter 5...
---ruben on 1/13/06


Bruce-(of Christ by FAITH ALONE we receive the complete benefit of that sacrifice and are declared righteous before God. Nowhere does the bible teaches FAITH ALONE. for that matter BIBLE ALONE..
---ruben on 1/13/06


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Baptism represents being buried into death as was Christ , arising in newness of life , in Christ having all old things pass away as shown in Romans 6:4 . It has no power of saving but is symbolic of dying to self in the flesh and living to Christ in the Spirit . Never to follow worldly ways but to walk in Christ's ways . Baptism of repentance of sin-John ; baptism of death to sin-Christ . John's looked forward to Christ;Christ's looked backward to His death ,burial ,resurection.
---Darlene_1 on 1/12/06


PART ONE:
Emcee,
Your answer to Alan highlights the difference between Catholic theology and the bible.

You are taught that your sins are to be purged by means of sacraments, penance etc. so that you MIGHT enter Heaven some day if YOU have done enough.

The bible says that ALL our sin is dealt with on Calvary and when we accept the sacrifice
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


PART TWO:
of Christ by FAITH ALONE we receive the complete benefit of that sacrifice and are declared righteous before God. 1 John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation (payment) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 2 Corinthians 5:21, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


PART THREE:
There is no earning or working toward salvation (baptism, mass, penance, confessional, etc). Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


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PART FOUR:
1 John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation (payment) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, (not of ANY works) lest any man should boast."
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


So Emcee you say
1 If someone does not accept Christ as saviour, nevertheless, if he is baptised, he will be saved.
2 If someone is suddenly convicted, and accepts Christ, but maybe the priest is on holiday and so the baptism can't take place immediately, then the person will not go to heaven.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/12/06


Rebecca,
You contradict your self. On the one hand you say that baptism is symbolic and a witness. Then you state that sins are washed away when you come out of the water.

Which is it? Symbolic or the method by which our sins are washed away?

And where does it say: "When you go under the water, it says that you died and your sins with you."
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


Alan,
Re Question #2 - that argument will not work with a catholic because they believe in "the baptism of desire". ie the thief would have wanted to have been and would have been baptized if given the chance so therefore God considers him to be baptized.

Which makes me wonder, Emcee, what about the OT saints who were not baptized?
---Bruce5656 on 1/12/06


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(Which sacraments are a must for salvation?) Here are a couple of them, both in the gospel of John. 3:5 " I am telling you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of heaven without being born of WATER and SPIRIT." 6:53 " Jesus said to them."I am telling you the truth, if you do not eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you have NO LIFE in you."
---ruben on 1/12/06


People still believe that water baptism saves...so sad. Acts 2:38 was written to Jews, not Gentiles, see acts 10:43. There are 7 baptisms in the bible but only one saves and its not water. Do you know which one saves??? See Eph 1:13
---Steve on 1/12/06


Since God reads hearts, how many people could viably be sitting in church who made the outward show but who's heart is still black as smut? Please read about those who "do by nature the things contained in the law" at Romans 214-16. Not having even heard of Christianity nor Baptism, "they are a law unto themselves". They are doomed because not having sacraments?
---Rebecca on 1/12/06


ALAN::Salvation=Man's proper end:The attaining of the vision Of God in heaven.
Having said that nothing defiled shall enter heaven.If so, then any man with stain of sin cannot enter heaven.Be it original Or natural sin.Baptism removes this anomaly & is recommended By Jesus.Your suggestions are of your own making by Choice.
---Emcee on 1/12/06


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Baptism is symbolic and for witness. When you go under the water, it says that you died and your sins with you. Coming out of the water, you are a new man..sins washed away but...I have a question, to answer this question>
---Rebecca on 1/12/06


The closer we get to a ordinance being required, is that of baptism. How many times does the phrase" believe n the Lord jesus Christ and be baptised" or variations on a theme?
---mike6553 on 1/12/06


Emcee ... Question 1 Can baptism alone give salvation? ... I suggest "No" .. Question 2 If someone accepts Christ, but dies before baptism, is is that person saved? ... I suggest "Yes"
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/12/06


Alan::: That was an emphatic NONE--what is the authority? & why were these sacraments declared necessary in the way of a christians life, and in the Bible.As we get older we need aids & we better be using them to obtain optimum efficiency.
---Emcee on 1/12/06


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Salvation does not come through sacraments.
---M.A. on 1/12/06


If by sacrament, you mean something involing some ceremony at church, the answer is none.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/12/06


This should be a fun blog. I don't know too much about them except a long time ago I was going to participate in some and was told I had to be saved first. If sacraments are for saved people then I would say there are none that are a must because you are already saved. Where are these sacraments mentioned?
---john on 1/12/06


No sacraments are a *must* for salvation. Salvation is not gained thru anything man does for ceremony, but only thru confession or sins, repentance of same, and asking Christ for His forgiveness & indwelling, then living your life acceptable to Him. Salvation is thru the shed blood of Jesus- nothing else.
---Ann5758 on 1/11/06


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Acts 16:31, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,"
Ephesians 2:8-9, "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Isaiah 64:6, "...and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags"
Titus 3:5, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
---Bruce5656 on 1/11/06


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