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Garden Of Eden In Missouri

I am going to Sunday School today where they will be teaching that the Garden of Eden was located in Missouri. The United States was connected to the Middle East before the flood. Can anyone help me?

Moderator - Are you a reformed Mormon? The Garden of Eden comment is something they would teach.

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chipper - Jos Smith took 33 women as his wives. 11 of those women still had husbands who were they were still married. It was adultery. Period.
The first extra wife was pregnant and his adopted daughter - he was a complete perv and history has proven it -
---Andrea on 2/4/08

My point is that the actions of men have and will continue to change the will of God.

As for the moon people thing - I've heard this mentioned on these blogs but have NEVER been taught this in Sunday school or any other class so I assure you that it is a theory NOT taught. Sorry, you're wrong yet again.
---Tammy on 10/25/07

Tammy-if you desired to know the truth you could googgle it and the LDS would verify one of your prophets said there were very tall pilgrim like people on the moon
---Andrea on 2/1/08

By strict definition, Adultery, was the taking of another mans wife. David had 500 wives plus many concubines and was never considered an adulterer until he took Uriah's wife "lamb", Bathsheba.
---Chipper on 1/31/08

The factual evidence we do have raises doubts about the Book of Mormons authenticity. Archaeology refutes the existence of the Pre-Colombian civilization described by the Book of Mormon. DNA evidence refutes the Book of Mormon claim that Native Americans are descendants of Hebrew immigrants to the Americas.
and there is overwhelming evidence that Joseph Smith was an adulterer
---Andrea on 10/26/07

You failed to mention Abraham and others in biblical times. By your standards wouldn't they too be adulterers?

Are you aware that unless a prophet speaks using the name of the Lord - it is not considered a prophecy? The leaders of our church are men - they have free thought and sometimes theorize...these things are not prophecy and are not treated as such. Also, I think you should apply the same standards of false prophecy to those in the Bible that didn't come true or haven't come true yet.
---Tammy on 10/25/07

My point is that the actions of men have and will continue to change the will of God.

As for the moon people thing - I've heard this mentioned on these blogs but have NEVER been taught this in Sunday school or any other class so I assure you that it is a theory NOT taught. Sorry, you're wrong yet again.
---Tammy on 10/25/07

They also teach there were people on the moon. In 1830 that may have seemed plausible but not today. Prophets are not syupposed to be wrong.

when a prophet is wrong it makes them a false prophet in all things they do

Joseph Smith was also an adulterer.
---Andrea on 10/24/07

Another thing - Kolob is a star and if you bothered to research those 15 verses you would see that they were pretty much a lesson to Abraham on astronomy and that Kolob is described as the star closest to the residence of God. I'm guessing you just like YOUR version better and you have no use for the truth.
Article of Faith 1 - We believe in God the Eternal Father and in His son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost.

We worship only ONE God.
---Tammy on 10/23/07

Tammy - your gods are not the God of the Christian Bible. I respect your right to worship as you please but to try to say you are Christian is a bold face lie.
You gods are more then pagan they are from the planet kolob
and they are polygamous and only men get to have more then one wife.
It is more like Islam then christian

YOU get to be gods with your own god planet and your own people worshiping you. This is a pagan satanic belief not Christian
see josephlied
---Andrea on 10/22/07

Ramona - are you aware of who the Nicean Council was? Because a group of men decided to "agree" on the Godhead they must be right? Do you assume that they were inspired? It makes no sense. Andrea- I have given up where you are concerned, I can only hope that people who read the stuff you spew will recognize the lies or at least research what you say. There are sites that answer to the anti-mormons but unfortunately I am unable to get them posted here - wonder why?
---Tammy on 10/20/07

Ramona - its wonderful you found Christ so many mormons become agnostics after LDS. They don't know the great love and mercy of our Savior. I witnessed to a group of LDS at a mart the other day and talked about the wonderful love God has for them. If we went back 1700 yrs and they asked Jesus into their hearts before JSmith what would they do to be saved.
It was my first open air preaching - it was good and so natural
---Andrea on 10/19/07

The mormons don't just teach 3 gods, they teach many gods on many planets. Father god had se-x with Mary to precreate Jesus. So much for virgin birth.
God has a mother and a father who has a mother and a father who has....yup you guessed it....on and on and on
They are anti-christian in doctrine and practice.
---Andrea on 10/18/07

I am ex-mormon/anti-mormon. Missouri: Doctrine & Covenants from LDS teaches Eden in Missouri. The LDS church doesn't believe in Trinitarian concept accepted by the Nicene Council, it accepts godhead. Three for both. Father, Son, Holy Ghost - Trinitarians, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -Mormons. The mormons believe the godhead is comprised of 3 persons one godhead while the Trinity concept comes from the Nicene creed. Jesus is cosubstantial, how exactly does he sit at the right hand of the father?
---Ramona on 10/17/07

Just ignore their teachings. If they ask you questions to see if you learned what they taught then tell them nobody knows where Eden used to be because of the massive devastation caused by the Great Flood. Only if God Himself pointed to the geographic location would we know for sure, and that would be pointless considering how screwed-up the geology is these days compared to the pre-flood world.
---Anthony on 5/14/07

MikeMocker in his campaign to denigrate Scripture? Hardly. Fundamentalist see scripture az a talisman. To some, you are fundamentalist, or nothing. The irony is I argue against atheism on another site, using a ontological argument.
---MikeM on 5/14/07

Alan: I already told you where the water went. The breakup of the earth's crust at the time of the flood that produced mountain uplifts also produced the great ocean trenches (plate techtonics, you know). The mid-Atlantic trench is deeper than Mt. Everest is high. That's where the water went. But this won't satisfy you. You will ignore it and come up with some other loopy question to insult the integrity of our wonderful God.
---jerry6593 on 5/14/07

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Chipper, a day in this passage refers to the moon. If you read Jasher you will see that it was the moon which shined as normal until the following day, but the sun stayed up only as long as it took Joshua to defeat his enemies. "And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Joshua, and the sun stood still in the midst of the heavens, and it stood still six and thirty moments, and the moon also stood still and hastened not to go down a whole day." Jasher 88:64.
---Eloy on 5/13/07

Ktisophilus- discussing Genesis 7:19 you say "How clear does it have to be?" I think of "There are none so blind as those who will not see." Some blogers here are wilfully opposed to Scriptures clear meaning but insist they're Christian. Can Christian's oppose Christ's Word?

It isn't about disbelieving parts of Scripture but about a wilfully disobedient attitude. I can imagine their thinking- Yes I know what you have written Lord but my professor knows better-I believe him!
---Warwick on 5/13/07

Where has all the water gone?
Why is there no mention of the huge eruptions of the earth's crust that must have happened for the Himalayas to be formed?
---alan_of_UK on 5/13/07

MikeMocker in his campaign to denigrate Scripture, which Jesus said "cannot be broken" (John 10:35) pretends he is very knowledgeable about science. But he is unaware of a basic principle in physics: all motion must be described relative to a reference frame. So the dscription of the sun standing still was relative to the reference frame of the earth. Our speed limit signs are just the same, as are expressions that even modern Ph.D. astronomers use: sunrise and sunset.
---Ktisophilos on 5/13/07

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Galileo himself promoted this principle of relativity. He could have avoided so much trouble by replying to "does the earth move" with "relative to what?"

For more on Galileo, myth v reality, google "The Galileo affair: history or heroic hagiography?"
---Ktisophilos on 5/13/07

It was for more than 6 1/2 hours.
Read your Bible.
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

It was about a whole day.
---Chipper on 5/13/07

Missouri? it is irrelevant. Literalism has it's place, when it was starting to grow dark and Joshua told the Sun and moon to stand still, until his army could see to finish defeating his foes. The sun and the moon did just that, literally, for 6 and a half hours.
---Eloy on 5/13/07

The tree of life is in the Garden of Eden. The Bible says that the tree of life is now in heaven. God must have removed the Garden of Eden from Earth before the flood and taken it to heaven. So it can't still be on Earth.
---jerry6593 on 5/12/07

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There is no evidence of a world wide flood. There is great evidence of a great flood in mesopotamia are the time of Noah.

Literalism has its limits, it turns the Bible into a mere talisman.

Remember, sola scriptora was coined by Luther, who later rejected it.

"sun stand still"-?
---MikeM on 5/12/07

The local flood idea is one of the daftest theories around, as Warwick's common sense points show.

It also violates Scripture. Genesis 7:19 :
"all the high mountains under all the heavens were covered" then repeatedly stresses all. How clear does it have to be?

A single "all" (Hebrew kol) might occasionally be non-universal, but Leupold's commentary pointed out that the double kol in Gen. 7:19 is conclusively universal.
---Ktisophilos on 5/11/07

oh no perry, i got this one by myself when i was on my greek and hebrew studing spree...umm i would think that at the time World-wide was infact just that region where nothing else...and it could have been a big region...i believe what the bible says that all the animals and human along w/ the evil died(except for the fishes and the animals in the ark)...i dunno you guys getting perterbed over some little thing...
---mark_B on 5/11/07

mark, you've been reading too many other books and other opinions that are not the inspired Word of God.
---Perry on 5/11/07

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Mark I'm sure you genuinely believe in the'local' flood idea. However God repeats over & over that it was world-wide. 'Everything on the face of the whole world perished' etc. Would all knowing God confuse local with world wide?

If you're are right Noah spent 100+ years ark building when he (and those who perished) could have walked away from any local flood- makes no sense.

Further God promised never to send such a flood again so He lied as we regularly have large & small local floods.
---Warwick on 5/11/07

People show their true selves on these blogs. If Jesus was reading them, he would be ashamed of many people here. Their hearts are so far from him. Instead of asking questions and receiving answers, so faith grows, people argue, show hatred, contention and mock others. Why, because truth destroys false doctrines of man that many people hold sacred. the garden was located in northern africa in the midst of the four rivers and not the American continent, but many love to spread lies to deceive others.
---ashley on 5/10/07

Since water seeks it's own level, how could only a portion of the "world" be flooded 15 cubits (22 1/2 feet) above the highest mountain. Have you ever taken a good look at the Grand Canyon in Colorado? It sure looks like it was washed out by a flood. This is not the only place on earth that looks like this.
I believe the whole earth was flooded.
---Chipper on 5/10/07

Actually, warwick...Not the WHOLE world was completely gone by the flood just the region...that word in the hebrew actually means region...which could mean that all the people and animals would have been in that region when the flood struck...but yea the region could ahve been very large...but the whole world was not all affected by the flood just that region
---mark on 5/8/07

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Chipper maybe you didn't read what I wrote below. Scripture says the old world was totally destroyed by the flood, so the landforms of today didn't exist in pre-flood times. Therefore we cannot know where Eden was and speculation about this is pointless isn't it?
---Warwick on 5/8/07

It is my understanding that the Garden of Eden was in the area of Babylon and possibly closer to the area of present day Kuwait.
---Chipper on 5/8/07

Scripture says the world of that time was destroyed by a world-wide flood. Whereever the Garden of Eden was exists no more.

All over the world we see billions of dead things burried in rock layers which were once flood deposited mud. Just like you would expect if there was a world-wide flood.

The Garden is nowhere in this present world.
---Warwick on 5/4/07

Deuteronomy 29:29 is my answer, Scholars have picked out 16 different locations all over the world to feed this lie among many. Including Missourie and Utah, The secret things belong unto the LORD our God but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
---Cynthia_1 on 5/3/07

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Mormons: A valiant human brother of Jesus and son of God the Father who turned against God in the pre-existence before creation. There was a war in heaven between spirits which mormons were involved in. Satan (the devil or Lucifer) persuaded one third of God's children to fight with him, they became the demons.

Christians: An angel, not a man, who wanted to be as god and so rebelled against God. (Isaiah 14) A third of the angels joined him.
---Ginger_Tea on 5/3/07

Mormons: (1) belief, (2) doing good works is not a demonstration that faith is present, but good works is part of the faith itself. ( McConkie, Doctr. New Testament Commentary 3:396) "Whosoever believeth" means whosoever worketh. Those who do not take part in Mormon-sanctioned baptism, attend sacrament meetings, pay a full tithing, perform secret temple rites, other requirements are said not to have faith and not be eligible for eternal life with the Father.
---Lemongrass on 5/3/07

Christians: Faith is more than intellectual; It is a decision to trust. Even the demons believe the facts about God "and tremble," but saving faith means placing your eternal soul in God's trustworthy hands, by taking God at His word (John 6:47). It is the means by which we receive God's love. It is true that faith shows itself in subsequent actions and deeds, but the deeds themselves are not faith. (Romans 4:5) Even faith itself is a gift, so there is no room for boasting. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
---Green_Tea on 5/3/07

Mormons: Sacred buildings, not used for general assembly and worship. Secret rituals performed including "endowment" ceremony - receives secret signs, tokens, handshakes for mormon passing certain checkpoints on way to Celestial Kingdom after death. Rituals are performed in proxy ceremonies for dead persons whose names have been obtained from genealogical research. Only about one in six Mormons meet the requirements for a "recommend" and are allowed within.
---Red_Clover on 5/3/07

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Jews and Christians: The temple was sacred building on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem intended to be the dwelling place of God's Shekinah Glory. Only the High Priest was permitted to enter the room called the "holy of holies" to sprinkle the blood of the sacrificial goat on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant once a year on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.
---MochaLatte on 5/3/07

This function was first filled by the portable "tabernacle" during the time of Moses, then by three different temples on Mount Moriah over the course of history. The temple was a "shadow" or "copy" of the true dwelling place of God in heaven. (Hebrews 9) There was never any such thing as endowment ceremonies or rituals for the dead performed there, and such would have been blasphemy.
---MochaLatte on 5/3/07

Mormons do not believe in the Trinity. This is where they are similar to other religions and the confusion comes in.
What Mormons mean: The belief in one organization of gods (that we have to do with) as a godhead.
---Espresso on 5/3/07

Mormons believe: A religious system of progression via the one true church and the true priesthood authority to enable a person to be "saved." Sometimes it is referred to as the "law of the gospel."

Christians: Good news: The message that God Incarnate has paid our penalty on the cross and offers eternal life as a free gift. (Romans 3:20-22)
---HalfnHalf on 5/3/07

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Mormons believe: Grace from God is earned, by "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel." (3rd Article of Faith) It is granted after deeds demonstrate worthiness. "By grace we are saved after all we can do." (II Nephi 25:23) All blessings from God are "predicated" upon obedience to laws which correspond to the particular blessings. (D&C 130:21)

Christians: God's unmerited favor. Grace is a gift which is not earned or deserved. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
---Earl_Grey on 5/3/07

Mormons believe: No single place called heaven, there are degrees of glory. The Celestial Kingdom, is the heaven where the Father presides. Terrestrial Kingdom where Jehovah presides over the large number of generally good Christians; the Telestial Kingdom where the Holy Ghost resides over robbers and murderers in a "heaven" still far more wonderful than earth. "Paradise" is not to be confused with any of these, for it is only temporary place before the final judgment.
---Lady_Grey on 5/3/07

Mormons believe: There is no hell. If hell is mentioned it is (1) the Telestial Kingdom; (2) Spirit Prison, a temporary destination before judgment; or (3) Outer Darkness, a place reserved for the devil and the demons (and Ex-Mormons).

Christians: Satan is to be cast into the "lake of fire." (Rev.20:10) Our sin condemns us (John 3:18) to an eternity separated from God, which is hell, unless we accept salvation offered to us through Jesus Christ. (Acts 4:12)
---Irish_Breakfast on 5/3/07

Child of God"
Mormons: All people. Every spirit is the literal offspring of God the Father and one of His wives in the pre-existence. We are all brothers and sisters.

Christians: Only those who receive Christ are children of God. (John 1:12) One becomes "born again" of the Holy Spirit, and becomes heir to God. It is Christians, then, who are brothers and sisters. The family of God is called the church. As adopted children we can call God "Abba". (Romans 8:15)
---English_Breakfast on 5/3/07

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Yeah there is no Biblical reference to the Garden of Eden being in Missouri. Somebody is feeding you something besides the Bible. You need to find a church that teaches the Bible.
---james on 11/13/06

only if the Pishon, Gihon, Tigris and Euphrates rivers are in Missouri. and by lookin on my map I see the Missouri and Mississippi rivers in Missouri not any of the others. the teaching that is supported by the church you are attending cannot be proven in archeology and has been disproven most of the time. (especially since the discovery of DNA) If you read the book one nation under gods you will see just how wrong this church is.
---Jared on 11/12/06

by the way the Garden of Eden is in Kansas on K18 about 30 miles from Paradise. it's a really pretty place you should visit it. (in the town of Lucas)I don't know where the Mormans got the idea of it being in missouri they were a few miles off.
---Jared on 11/12/06

Missouri isn't called the "show me state" for nothing. The whole (in)visible earth [above water & under water (II Peter 3:4-7)] was once connected to 'the middle east', or together even today, mostly unseen with no United States as such. Some [miguided] truth in most everything.
---bob6749_[Elishama] on 2/5/06

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...Though a 'sword' would have meant nothing to Adam/Eve, Israel sure knew what it meant! BUT let's drop that, I'll finish by answering the original question: Though Eden had to be in the general area of the Middle East, since God told us it had been near the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers. Let's never forget what great event took place after Adam's eviction: The World wide Flood! Any possible trace of Eden was surely destroyed then if not sooner by God (if you were wondering).
---Daniel on 1/31/06

Ulrika, But _how_ we interpret Scritpture should be based on ALL of what God has told us, using the wisdom He's given us too. Prayer and right heart should obviously be first, but before trying to dig into the details of verses, we should first 'set the stage' with at least simple backgrnd studies like WHEN, TO Whom, BY Whom, WHY, etc. Genesis was *not* written for Adam/Eve, but rather Israelites (and later); though parts were taken from earlier records. Eden was beyond 'ancient history' to Moses! [CONT.]
---Daniel on 1/31/06

Daniel, Scripture says it was a flaming sword, so that is what I believe. The truth of scripture is not based on whether or not I understand it.
---Ulrika on 1/30/06

Daniel; What you're advocating is that it should say "flaming object" but EVERY bible translation says sword. So what it boils down to is you're assuming that it definately was not a weapon! It's no big deal Daniel, just that "I" get trampped on here for using logic and reason! which I definately laud you for! I think we(could be) on the same page!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/06

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cliff: Apparently I must 'spell out' for you, since you're still writing "war weapon" instead of seeing that was only being _described_ as a "sword" for those living long after Adam/Eve, but definitely wasn't one! Emphasis is on "flaming..." (not "sword") AND also _what it did_ without being held! God didn't tell Adam/Eve "that's a sword"; ridiculous! But I'm sure He told them what would happen if that "flame" moving all about, ever touched them!
---Daniel on 1/30/06

Daniel; I never "make fun" of scripture.Simply pointed out that a war weapon was fashiond when only 2 people were on earth! Certainly Moses was raised as Pharoh's son and familiar with all Egyptian mythology and history. How he recieved his earlier information is pure speculation IE verbatim conversation in the garden etc. The earlies writing was cuniform on clay tablets,then on parchment,books were a much later innovation, AD 600.
---1st_cliff on 1/29/06

[Pt.3] ...Genesis not only from oral or written records handed down from Jacob, Isaac, Abraham or earlier, but also the words of God (he spoke directly with God)! Don't forget that Moses was raised as royalty in Egypt where we know books/records already existed long before him), and was certainly intelligent enough for such a task.
---Daniel on 1/29/06

[Pt.2]Pictures of some angel holding a sword to keep Adam/Eve from coming back do an injustice to Scripture here! There were "cherumbim" (plural), but only *one* "flaming" sword; that may have been similar to the larger "pillar of fire" seen by Israel (Exodus 13:21). I also see no evidence in Genesis warranting a categorical rejection of Moses as its author. I believe there were minor insertions by some editor at later date, but Moses could have easily written... [CONT.]
---Daniel on 1/29/06

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[Pt.1]1st_cliff: I'm not surprised you apparently 'buy into' some JEDP theory (numerous variations exist which often date most of the Pentateuch to Kings in Israel), so why did you 'make fun' of the word "sword" in Genesis then? Swords certainly existed by Moses' time. The point however is *no one* even held this thing! Gen.3:24 states: "He stationed the cherubim, *and* _the flaming sword which turned every direction_, to guard the way to the tree of life." [CONT.]
---Daniel on 1/29/06

Missouri may be a nice place to live, but doubt that it was the original Eden. The Bible places it somewhere between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
---Eloy on 1/29/06

Daniel; Nice to know there's another bible scholler on line; If you know the history of the bible,you know that nowhere in the first 5 books does it state that Moses was the author! In fact it was compiled by 4 writers identified by J,E,P and D. Gen 1.1-2.3 by P.Gen 2.4-25 by J. 1st acct. says creation-plants,animals,man&woman. 2nd says man,plants animals,woman! One simple example, but if you're the scholler you say, you will already know this! 1500 yrs before Moses was born!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/06

I am a member of Community of Christ, formerly Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am not a "reformed Mormon", never have been, never will be. My church has never taught this. Are you dealing with a Restoration branch or another group? We hold Jesus Christ as central to us and as Savior and accept a Trinity. We do have a concept of Zion, kingdom of God on Earh. Is that the mixup?
---Randall on 1/28/06

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Ulrika; As I've said before I'm not JW. They are not the only ones who dispute the trinity. You believe that the Jews are God's chosen people yet they don't believe in "trinity"! Rev.3.14 says Jesus was the 1st ceation! Satan knew Jesus better than you and he tried to get Jesus to sin! JWs believe the entire bible Gen to Rev. was/is the inspired word! Who's giving you this info? What do you think "sheol" is if not the common grave of mankind?
---1st_cliff on 1/28/06

1st Cliff, Why don't you come out and say you are Jehovah's Witness? They don't believe in the Trinity. They believe Jesus was God's first creation. Jesus could have sinned, even though he did not. They believe, that some of the books of the Bible are not inspired. They don't believe Christians will go to heaven. They think hell is in the grave.
---Ulrika on 1/28/06

On the word 'sword' and location of Eden and anything else in Genesis: These words were penned by Moses LONG after they occurred! On the event of Adam and Eve being told to leave Eden, Scripture says it was *like* or *as* a 'flamming sword' trying to describe it (and various locations!) for those living in the time of Moses! So 'get real!' Study a bit more of the history of the Bible and how and when parts of it were written and *for whom*.
---Daniel on 1/28/06

Asking how old the earth is, in reference to a biblical view is like asking someone to compute the deminsions of pI. Literalist avoid that issue and for good reason. Literalism has literal limits.
---SLCGuy on 1/19/06

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I only say that SLCGuy because this subject of the age of the earth has been beaten to death on the blogs, and it gets tiresome.
BTW, I'm not one who thinks the earth is a mere 6000 years old.
'Miss Vegas' hmm, been called a lot of things, never that!
---NVBarbara on 1/19/06

Miss Vegas;I do not intend to be argumentative, but I do intend to debate. sometimes a question 'opens a can of worms.' If I were a dog, (maybe I am) I would be TOTO, at the curtian. I believe in an open and free dialectic.
---SLCGuy on 1/18/06

Elder; Jesus said "I am the way the TRUTH ...( He's Truth personified) Truth is absolute fact! A little insight as to how my mind works= Mat.28.19 "Go therefore and make disciples...teaching them.." Jesus gave this command circa 33AD Paul wrote some 25/30 years later..where they missing a good portion of the bible? Could you make diciples without his 12/13 books? Without John? Revelation? (60years later) They did!
---1st_cliff on 1/18/06

Not so dangerous as argumentative to some on the blogs SLCGuy.
---NVBarbara on 1/18/06

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Cliff again you call yourself dumb. No one else did.
An open mind could be a good thing depending on what it is open to.
Explain to me if I missed it. You do not appear to be open to Biblical things. You haven't told me if you believe the Bible is true. I've asked many times.
An open mind with no restraint is in for big trouble for it cannot answer the question, "What is Truth?"
So Cliff, What is truth? Is Truth something we believe it to be or is it Truth because it is Truth?
---Elder on 1/18/06

NVbarbera. I am trying to make a point. My question is not rhetorical, but is perhaps dangerous.
---SLCGuy on 1/18/06

You're right here on the Net SLCGuy, why don't you look on Google for those answers you seek regarding Missouri and Iraq?
---NVBarbara on 1/18/06

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