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What are Calvinists

What are Calvinists?

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Frances, if you have a true love for Christ you will be trying your best to live for Him. I mentined something before that I believe confuses many here. When the Bible talks about eternal life given to a believer, it is talking about a true genuine born again Christian. Not all who call themselves Christian are Christian. Paul and many of them separate the two many times. Paul says, Make your salvation sure. We know within, if we have really committed to Christ or not. Are we truely in love with Christ? For no one lost has a true love for Christ. Does the Spirit testify to our spirit we are children of God? If there is no testimony from the Spirit we fall short.
---MarkV. on 5/7/09


MarkV, of course we get dirty because we are in the world and constantly under attack. But God sees the heart and has specific qualifications for getting into Heaven. We have to Love our Neighbour as ourselves and we have to Love God (even if we are not sure of His Name). Again and again, God talks about judging HIS people. What is the purpose of this judgement? He is not going to give a pass to those who claim to believe in Him, as I have said time and again. Judgement relates to deeds (not words). We had better make sure we are serving God and our neighbour.
---frances008 on 5/7/09


Frances, this touches on something you just answered with.
4. There is people who are not saved but confidently believe that they are saved. These people have assurance of salvation without salvation. Their assurance is a false assurance. The easiest way to have a false assurance of salvation is to have a false doctrine of salvation. Because the doctrine is faulty, their assurance has no basis. One false assurance is to believe that they will get to heaven by trying to live a good life. Those who think they are living a good enough life to satisfy the demands of a Holy God are only deluding themselves into thinking they are saved.
You could also have a sound doctrine and no love for Christ. Knowledge does not save anyone.
---MarkV. on 5/7/09


I see Perseverance of the Saints as something we strive for, not a given condition for everyone. Many people who think they are saints are not because when things are really tough they will go with the flow, and they will say what is politically convenient. They are afraid for their lives. So No I don't see many saints persevering through the tribulation. Most will take on the mark of the beast, in fact I think we are told that this will happen in Revelation. Only those who do not take on the mark are going to be saved, no matter what fantastic 'Christians' they were. This is because they have not listened to warnings about the 'conspiracy' even though the evidence was presented to them time after time.
---frances008 on 5/6/09


Frances~ I have to disagree with you in one area, the 'P' part of TULIP is the most deadly part of the TULIP doctine. It stands for 'Perseverence of the Saints', and means the same as 'Unconditional Eternal Security.' There is ONLY eternal security to those who remain faithful to the Lord and abide in Him to the end.

Paul taught: "Do not be deceived, neither adulterers, idolaters, fornicators (etc) shall inherit the Kingdom of God."
Hope this helps.

Also the 'L' stands for Limited Atonement. They believe that Christ's blood only covers a few that God predesined. I believe Christ's blood is sufficient to cover all people (unlimited atonement), if they will surrender fully to God.
---Anne on 5/6/09




Frances, I hope I can help you with my answer: There is four positions that I will give from RC Sproul:
1. There is people who are unsaved and know they are unsaved. These people are aware of their enmity against God.
2. There are people who are saved but do not know they are saved. These people are in a state of grace but are uncertain of it.In this group are those who have not yet made certain they are among the elect.
3. There is people who are saved and know that they are saved. This is a group who are certain of their election and calling. They have a clear and sound understanding of what salvation requires of them and know they have met them. They have believed in the testimony of the Holy Spirit
---MarkV. on 5/6/09


MarkV, I am worried that Calvinism gives people a false security. I know a bit about the religion. TULIP and all that. I disagree with most of it. Totally Deprived to begin with. I believe that mankind was made good, but fell together with Adam and Eve and the punishment was death. We still are born good in my opinion. Little children are destined for Heaven - Jesus said so. And the gift of God to those who obey - (conditional and resistable grace) is Eternal Life. (Only applies to those who are responsible for their actions - those who are not are saved.) Preservation of the saints is acceptable, but we do not know until it is finished who the saints are going to be because judgement is a future event. What does the L stand for?
---frances008 on 5/5/09


MarkV, you are using circular arguments. I am saying how can a Calvinist presume to know that he is a real Christian. I already mentioned that they might have a (deceiving) spirit. What would it assure them? Surely it would assure them that despite the Bible saying what it says, they will be okay - saved. You would say that because they are real Christians they have the real Holy Spirit in them no doubt. But we only show we are real Christians by our obedience to the Commandments. If we disobey, we do not have God's Spirit in us, but some undesirable one.
---frances008 on 5/5/09


Mark ... You are an extraordinary person!!

Yes, I suppose I do have a little grumble about you ... your persistent porkies.

I expect you would have one huge complaint about someone who lied about you, seeing how greatly you complain when all I do is to ask you why you continually lie about me.

But maybe not, for you seem to find it acceptable to bear false witness.

Why do you lie about me? Last time I asked that, you responded with just more porkies.

Please don't do that again ... I reckon it won't do your soul much good.

As to your question ... God killing the physical life of Israel's enemies is not quite the same as Him consigning to eternal flames those who act as he has created them.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/5/09


Frances, you said,
"Sorry MarkV, there are a couple of inconsistencies in what you say. For instance you say that not Calvinists but Christians are saved, yet later you agree that many who call themselves Christians will be told to go away from Jesus because they were evil doers." I meant genuine Christians. The fact that many who call themselves Christians will be found they never commited to Christ with a repented heart and will be told "to go away, I never knew you" If they had been true genuine believers God would have known them. And I said "the Spirit testifies to our spirit we are children of God" That statement is for genuine Christians, those who have the love of Christ, in Christ.
---MarkV. on 5/5/09




Alan, you do a lot of talking and a lot of complaining. First you ask questions and when I answer or someone else as you have done before you again began to complain people are out to get you, calling you names. And in all this, all I hear is your opinion, never any Scripture or anything to proof your points. You want to throw stuff at me, go ahead, I hear it everyday.
"Is it because you can't understand English? Or lack intelligence? No Mark, I am sure you are a very clever person."
Brother Alan, you can call me what you want. I cannot stop you from feeling what you do. It's your own life. I didn't have to answer you, but I did, expecting some answers to my questions and you give nothing but complaining.
---MarkV. on 5/4/09


Sorry MarkV, there are a couple of inconsistencies in what you say. For instance you say that not Calvinists but Christians are saved, yet later you agree that many who call themselves Christians will be told to go away from Jesus because they were evil doers. Again you say that I am wrong to assume that we cannot tell who is going to Heaven or Hell, and you claim that the Spirit testifies that we are children of God. But some people are full of false spirits testifying that they will be saved, when they won't be. For example they say they are Christian, but again, Jesus will say to them Get away from me you who do evil. I stand by my claim that before judgement day NOBODY knows who is saved and who isn't. It is not for us to know.
---frances008 on 5/4/09


Steven 7000, thanks again for your kind words, and for what you have learned about Almighty God, for we do not want any glory for ourselves. I know things are tuff here, and I will get hammered everyday with accusation, but so long as I am speaking for God and His word I know I am ok. Many might try to drive me away from the Lord, but nothing can separate me from the love of Christ. Blessings to you and a big Amen.
---MarkV. on 5/4/09


MarkV ... MY only questions were asking Why do you lie about what others say and beleive? I still wonder that, and why you go on adding more lies.

Is it because you can't understand English? Or lack intelligence? No Mark, I am sure you are a very clever person.

So I am driven to the conclusion that it is because you deliberately give false witness.

How sad, for a professed Christian!

But maybe, if you are correct about predestination, it is God who is making you lie, so you can't be blamed.

Perhaps, in your OSAS beleif, you think God allows you to lie, and it is not counted a sin.

But then, God is Truth. How puzzling!
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/4/09


Mark V

"they" will revile and say all manner of things against you. "as it is written, so shall it be"
The religous people of that day and all the days before ("nothing new under the sun") till the day (2nd coming) of the LORD will indeed have ears that itchn and profess a christ of their own imagination for they know not the LORD of glory nor God's redemptive purpose

"Fear not for "I am with you always"

ps. watch casting your pearls before swines or calling a brother that "is" an evil doer!

But by the grace of God there go "those who believer" we...
---steven-rem7000 on 5/4/09


There are a lot of diffenent veiws of a Calvinist. The question you (or might be better possed) should ask.. is what is historic Calvinism? and who they that actually believe John Calvins Scriptural SOUND Theology? what is it and who are they?
What seperates them from other PROFESSING christains.
---steven-rem7000 on 5/4/09


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Alan, you so kindly ask me a question, and I answered you from what you give evidence by your arguments what you believe. It doesn't take a scientist to figure what you imply.
Second, you didn't answer my question. You said God would be a dictator if He doesn't give man a free will. I ask you, what about His actions towards all men not from Israel. Women and children. You could not answer, why? You imply God cannot decide their outcome because in your mind man decides. We know faith comes from hearing the word of God and thousands didn't hear it. What did free will give them? You want to speak about Scripture go for it but don't get angry.
---MarkV. on 5/4/09


THE Legal(ISM) of Calvin(ISM)!


Ism's cause Schisms
And Movements will pass
But the Word of the Lord endures FOREVER!

Many are sick and tired of the legalism in Calvinism, and have come to realize that they have bought into a"system" rather than what the Bible teaches.

The Pharisees themselves bought into a SYSTEM. When Jesus came, the SYSTEM murdered Jesus. The SYSTEM also Murdered anyone who didn't follow the SYSTEM.(RELIGION)!

Reformed Theology is a STSTEM a religion, and like all RELIGIONS, RCC, Islam, Calvinism, etc, MURDER those who don't follow their SYSTEM!!!

Jesus is NOT a SYSTEM, He is GOD!!! He is our LIFE, and IN HIM we live and move and have our being!!!
---kathr4453 on 5/4/09


Alan~ I love your way of cutting through the bull. You have a great ability at that.
---Anne on 5/3/09


MarkV,
In yours of 5/1 you grossly misrepresented what I and others have said. That is false witness ... which I have heard is a sin.

And now in your latest, you continue in the same vein, distorting my comment about God's sovereignty ... did you not notice my words "although He need not"?

I try to explain why I disagree with your understanding of how you came to be saved. I invite you to compare this with your behaviour of not only insulting and condemning anyone who disagrees with you, but telling porkies about them as well.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/3/09


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MarkV More imagination!
"So in order for Him not to be a dictator, he has to let you decide what His plan should be" I never said that
"If He doesn't want to have mercy, you say He has to" I never said that
"If He doesn't want to give grace, He has to" I never said taht
"I have never read of a Sovereign God in the hands of man" I never said He was
"If man has control then God is not in control" You are right on that, what makes you think I said otherwise?
"But everyone who is a genuine believer puts His faith and Trust in the Lord. Indeed so .. why do you say I don't?
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/3/09


Alan, in answer to your comments you say God is so sovereign that he lets man have free will. That makes Him good on your side because it gives the ultimate destination of man on man. That has been your stand from the beginning. If He doesn't give that to you, you feel He would be a dictator. So in order for Him not to be a dictator, he has to let you decide what His plan should be. If He doesn't want to have mercy, you say He has to. If He doesn't want to give grace, He has to. I have never read of a Sovereign God in the hands of man. If man has control then God is not in control. But everyone who is a genuine believer puts His faith and Trust in the Lord. In your case you might as well put it in yourself. God has no power over you.
---MarkV. on 5/3/09


Alan 2: God must have been a dictator in your eyes when He killed the Cannanites and when He send the Angel to slaughter hundreds. All those people with their free will, God was unfair to them. Why didn't God do what you say? I must be confuse here. Lets see they all had free will they all, in your eyes had a choice when the gospel was not even given to them. What about all the women and children, can you explain why God was a dictator? No you cannot. Because God does as pleases Him. He is in control whether you like it or not. " I give mercy on whomever I give mercy, and I have compassion on whomever I have compassion" He didn't say I will have mercy if you let me. The God of the Bible is Lord and Almight God.
---MarkV. on 5/3/09


Mark ... congratulations on an amazing imagination!

"You get angry when someone takes away your free will" We know that no-one takes away our freewill. And it is you who shows anger, not us.

"You get angry when the glory is taken away from you"
"You want to be on the Throne"
"You think He is obligated to do what you want"
None of us has said or indicated any of these things.

"You get angry when God is on the Throne"
NO .. we affirm God is so unassailably on the Throne that, although He need not, He allows us freewill.

It is you who diminishes Him from being truly Sovereign to being a mere dictator.
---alan8566_of_UK on 5/3/09


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GOD ALONE IS ON THE THRONE
GOD ALONE GETS ALL THE GLORY
GOD ALONE IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS FOREVER!!

When God gave man free-will, it in no way took away from His sovereignty, power, and majesty, but ADDS to His fairness, longsuffering, and everlasting goodness and mercy. God is perfect and wise in all His ways.

God loves His faithful servants who continue to follow the Holy Spirit in obedience and love for God with all their hearts. God bless, and may we pray for those in need of God's wisdom and mercy, instead of needless arguing and ridiculing. Let us all walk in the patience and love of God. May we all teach with meekness, grace, and kindness.
---Anne on 5/2/09


Frances
Calvinism has led to this belief that only certain people are predestined by God to go to eternal life,(Correct). and that you can tell who they are because they believe in Calvinism.(false, they believe in Christ). The New Testament tells us that Jesus died for all men, and will judge all men and nobody will know beforehand who is going to be let into Heaven,(wrong, the Spirit testifies to our spirit we are children of God) and who, at the last minute will be told 'Get away from me, I never knew you, you who do evil.'(Correct) There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, where the worm does not die, and the people will have eternity to argue with God's decision. (Correct, the lost don't believe in God so don't believe in hell).
---MarkV. on 5/2/09


My last post offened so many of you. You cannot stand to be told that God choose you and you didn't choose Him to be a child of God. You get angry when the glory is taken away from you. You get angry when someone takes away your free will. You get angry when God is on the Throne. You want to be on the Throne. You get angry because with His wisdom decided to say some and not to save everyone. You get angry because you think He is obligated to do what you want and save everyone because you think that is the right thing to do and what He does is wrong. Only the flesh can react against God' Sovereignty. For all those who are of the Spirit know who God is. King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
---MarkV. on 5/1/09


Calvinism has led to this belief that only certain people are predestined by God to go to eternal life, and that you can tell who they are because they believe in Calvinism. The New Testament tells us that Jesus died for all men, and will judge all men and nobody will know beforehand who is going to be let into Heaven, and who, at the last minute will be told 'Get away from me, I never knew you, you who do evil.' There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, where the worm does not die, and the people will have eternity to argue with God's decision.
---frances008 on 4/30/09


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Calvin wasnt a man satisfied by lukewarm acceptance. He insisted upon obedience down to the last punctuation mark. It wasnt enough for him the doctrine should be formulated, since that might still leave the individual a certain amount of liberty to decide whether or what extent he would comply. Calvin wasnt one who would ever tolerate freedom in respect of doctrine or of daily life. There wasnt to be a jot of give-and-take in religious and spiritual matters, there must be no truce with individual convictions, the Church, as he regarded it, had not merely the right but the duty to impose unquestioning obedience upon all men, to impose it by force, and to punish laodiceanism as savagely as it punished open resistance.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/09


Robert, let me say there is only one point to be made about Calvinism, and that point is that, "God saves sinners" God, the Triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three persons working together in sovereign wisdom, power, and love to achieve the salvation of a chosen people. The Father electing and calling them, the Son fulfilling the Father's will by redeeming them, the Spirit executing the purpose of the Father and Son by renewing them.
---MarkV. on 4/30/09


CALVIN BLIND!!!

Onward Christian Soldiers Sail,
Across the seas and show your tail,
March or' the lands and place your mark,
With Israels lost or STOLEN ARK.

We are Reformed Theology,
We make no apology,
Marching or' the lands you see,
To rid your homes of MTV.

Is this the Gospel? Can it be?
I hear no Gospel here for me.
My soul need saving, cant they see?
They only want my MTV!!

Only THEY are saved you see,
Building Gods THEOCRACY,
Here on earth The Masonry
I bet you didnt know that Gee!

Well, that's Reformed Theology,
Inquisitions there will be,
Self-righteousness, this beast I see,
Playing GOD with you and me!
---kathr4453 on 4/30/09


"Its easy to follow the trail of John Calvin's theology from the pagan religion of Mani in Babylonia to his writings in France and Geneva."
kathr4453 on 4/29/09

Agree with that completely. Augustine was an 'orator' and Calvin a 'lawyer'. Lawyers do love the verbiage of the orator. They both swiftly eliminated the competion from the face of the earth.
---Nana on 4/30/09


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WARNING: Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, ......


Gnostic teachings influenced Augustine in his theology of "total depravity". For 9yrs Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian philosophy proclaimed in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of "total depravity" claiming they were the elect.

Augustine, blended Manichaeism, the philosophy of Neoplatonism, with his Gnostic teachings and these were passed on to John Calvin. Its easy to follow the trail of John Calvin's theology from the pagan religion of Mani in Babylonia to his writings in France and Geneva. Calvin continually praised Augustine's work with numerous references and quotations.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/09


MarkV, fair enough. Thanks.
---JohnnyB on 4/21/09


Johnny B, the Calvinistic was not introduced by Calvin. As I said before he was already dead. I believe he died in 1554. The Synod of Dort introduced the five points by his name, not becuase he burn people but because they were soundly based by Scripture. What his life was I am not arguing. Or for that matter anyone else's life. It is the Word of God that is important and what we are talking about. You can argue that he was a molester or murderer but his life is not in question.
---MarkV. on 4/21/09


Calvin said:
"Predestination is what we call the eternal decree of God, by which He has determined in Himself what He would have to become of every individual of mankind. For they are not all created with a similar destiny, but eternal life is fore-ordained for some, and eternal damnation for others. Every man, therefore, being created for one or other of these ends, we say, he is predestined either to life or to death"
---alan8566_of_UK on 4/21/09


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MarkV, so I am given to understand, then, that you are justifying Calvin's burning people at the stake.
---JohnnyB on 4/20/09


Johnny B, Calvin did not believe in "free will" but in free choice. In other words he was not forced one way or another to make a choice, but he believed the will was not free, since the choice he made was not free, he had a motive behind it or a desire within him in order to make that choice and that descision he made is what God judges him by.
Every single person make a descision for a reason. If he choose without a reason he would not be responsible for his actions. So his will is not free but controlled by what he desires or wants. The lost do the desires of the devil, because they are dead and are separated from God. They are spiritually lost to the things of God and are in bondage to sin that is why they choose what they do.
---MarkV. on 4/20/09


Calvin must have believed in free will else he would not have burned people at the stake for making bad doctrinal and moral choices. God bless.
---JohnnyB on 4/17/09


Andy today we have something worse....Neo-Calvinism....These people BOYCOTT revivals wearing t-shirts saying NO CHOICE!


Calvinism is different with each denomination. Baptist Calvinists are not the same as Presbyterian Calvinists etc.

Calvin taught the first prosperity Gospel as well.

I'm not harsh enough!

James Kennedy still teaches Americans as Gods New Chosen People and America as the New Promise Land..replacing the Cross with the American Flag.That Blasphemy
---kathr4453 on 4/17/09


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kath you are a little harsh on clvinism, yes their predestination theory was a little hard, and verry narrow, however todays calvinists are no longer so destructive, and have loosened their vieuwpoints a little. also one must recognise that calvinism was born in a 99.99% society. therfore the first doctrines of calvinism did not take in account gospeloutreach. rather they advocated changeof doctrines.
---Andy on 3/31/09


Calvin, says: "And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision.. Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 7...salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.." Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 5"We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition, rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others." Bk 3, ch 21, s. 5
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


Calvin, says: "... predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse." Bk 3, ch 22, s. 9

"...although the voice of the gospel addresses all in general, yet the gift of faith is rare." Bk 3, ch 22, s. 9

"Indeed many, ..accept election in such terms as to deny that anyone is condemned. But they do this very ignorantly and childishly, since election itself could not stand except as set over against reprobation. Bk 3, Ch 23, s 1.

"Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns, and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 1
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


Calvin, says: "Man falls according as God's providence ordains, but he falls by his own fault." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 8

"Even though by God's eternal providence man has been created to undergo that calamity to which he is subject, it still takes its occasion from man himself, not from God, since the only reason for his ruin is that he has degenerated from God's pure creation into vicious and impure perversity." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 9

"Moreover, the Wicked bring upon themselves the just destruction to which they are destined." Bk 3, Ch 24 heading

"For however universal the promises of salvation may be, they are still in no respect inconsistent with the predestination of the reprobate
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


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Obewan, Calvinist are obsessed with God. Arminian's are obsessed with man. You see Obewan, through a Calvinistic view God is in control of everything, through the Arminian view man is. I rather take God's side on everything then man since he fails always, and God never does. MarkV.

MarkV, I see both Calvinist and Arminian's obsessed with themselves. All Calvinists talk about is THEIR election. Me Myself and I.

Born Again Christians are obsessed with Preaching the Gospel to all lost sinners, proclaiming God's Gift o Jesus sacrifice at Calvary to a lost and dying world...be ye reconcilled to God. This is not what Calvinism does, but quite the oposite!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/09


Calvin, says: "Indeed many, ..accept election in such terms as to deny that anyone is condemned. But they do this very ignorantly and childishly, since election itself could not stand except as set over against reprobation. Bk 3, Ch 23, s 1.

"Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns, and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 1

"...it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God's secret plan." "..God's secret plan is the cause of hardening." B 2, Ch 23, s. 1
---TRU-DOG on 1/31/09


Calvin,says:"it is utterly inconsistent to transfer the preparation for destruction to anything but God's secret plan.""..God's secret plan is the cause of hardening."B 2,Ch 23, s.1"it is very wicked merely to investigate the causes of God's will.for his will is,and rightly ought to be,the cause of all things that are.".."For God's will is so much the highest rule of righteousness that whatever he wills, by the very fact that he wills it,must be considered righteous.When,therefore, one asks why God has so done,we must reply: because he has willed it.But if you proceed further to ask why he so willed,you are seeking something greater and higher than God's will,which cannot be found."Bk 3,Ch 23, s.1
---TRU-DOG on 1/30/09


Calvin, says: "The very inequality of his grace proves that it is free." Bk 3, ch 21, s 6"..we say that God once established by his eternal and unchangeable plan those whom he long before determined once for all to receive into salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, he would devote to destruction. ...he has barred the door of life to those whom he has given over to damnation." Bk 3, Ch 21, s. 7"...God could foresee nothing good in man except what he had already determined to bestow by the benefit of his election,.." Bk 3, Ch 22, s.5"God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful." Bk 3, Ch 22, s. 8
---TRU-DOG on 1/30/09


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Calvin, says: "I admit that in this miserable condition wherein men are now bound, all of Adam's children have fallen by God's will." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 4"With Augustine I say: the Lord has created those whom he unquestionably foreknew would go to destruction. This has happened because he has willed. Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 5"Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? ... The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree."
---TRU-DOG on 1/30/09


Calvin, says: "For if predestination is nothing but the meting out of divine justice--secret, indeed, but blameless--because it is certain that they were not unworthy to be predestined to this condition, it is equally certain that the destruction they undergo by predestination is also most just. Besides, their perdition depends upon the predestination of God in such a way that the cause and occasion of it are found in themselves. For the first man fell because the Lord had judged it to be expedient, why he so judged is hidden from us." Bk 3, Ch 23, s. 8
---TRU-DOG on 1/30/09


Obewan, Calvinist are obsessed with God. Arminian's are obsessed with man. You see Obewan, through a Calvinistic view God is in control of everything, through the Arminian view man is. I rather take God's side on everything then man since he fails always, and God never does.

A good test for you is to ask yourself how you came to Christ and others didn't. Did you exercise faith in Christ because you were more intelligent than others? If so, where did this intelligence come from? Is it something you earned or deserved? Or was your intelilligence itself a gift of God? Did you respond to the gospel positively because you are better or more virtuous than others? Here is where a person discovers the secret sin of Pride that has not left.
---MarkV. on 11/24/08


Calvanists are obsessed with predestination. There is the age old joke about the hyper-calvanist that fell down the stairs. After he picked his bruised body up off the floor he muttered "Boy am I glad that one is over!"
---obewan on 11/24/08


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Mr Steve; Calvinist Cult? Someone does not know protestant history. Calvin and luther were the 2 leaders of the reformation. Calvinism still influences fundamentalism as does Luther.Fundamentalism is an amalgamation of both, leaning more towards Luther. From what i see, fundamentalist see themselves as an small island in a sea of cults.
---SLCGuy on 11/24/08


The quick answer of their beliefs are:

TULIP

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
---denna7667 on 9/6/07


Steve.you are right. Calvin influenced all the reformers and his teachings were incorporated into the baptist, methodist, episcopalian, lutheran and all other protestant churches in the early 1600's causing dissention against the catholic church. it is all documented as fact in the archives of history. why people deny truths defies logic. I guess many are happy following lies. it is more than professing his name. we must repent ourselves. Jesus can't do it for us regardless how much he wants to.
---Lori on 9/6/07


Calvinist believe that "ONLY THE ELECT" will be saved...yet they forget the part only the saved are the elect. John 3:16 from a calvinist view would read...For God so loved SOME that he gave his only begotten Son...That if god says ok they shall not perish but have ever lasting life. Simply put...one of many cults.
---Steve on 9/6/07


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Do you mean what do Calvinists believe or do you mean which denonimations are Calvinist?

For what they believe see this post for a discription of "Calvin's TULIP":

http://christianblogs.christianet.com/1136846854.htm

See the post by Fred_S. there on 1/10/06 for a summary of "Calvin's TULIP".
---Bruce5656 on 3/11/07


thirdly, Calvin himself did not come up with TULIP. followers of his teachings in the generation after his death were the ones to come up with TULIP. While slightly off of what Calvin wrote, it is pretty accurate to his teachings.
---beth6964 on 2/9/06


However, as much as Calvin gets labled "THE teacher of predestination," if you do your research, Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, and most of the early fathers of Christianity taught the EXACT same doctrine on predestination. Actually, Luther and Calvin had very few points of conflict.
---beth6964 on 2/9/06


Calvinism is generally the following of the teachings of John Calvin, although some of the teachings got misconstrued along the way, as have many of other teachers' teachings. Calvin's main focus was on God's sovereignty, much like Luther's was on God's grace. Yes, Calvin did believe in predestination. He believed that God knows exactly who is going to choose him, and that no one can choose God without God stirring in him/her first because our nature is fallen and evil.
---beth_6964 on 2/9/06


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Thank you Alan for the information. I will do a search. I always like to know what is going on and don't want to speak against something if I know nothing about it. You are a good friend and a great brother, keep the answers coming on the blogs for when you say something, it gives us things to look up and study and learn. Don't be afraid to quote things whether we agree or not. blessings
---Lupe2618 on 2/1/06


Lupe ... Steve does tend to hop in and out of these blogs!
There is much similarity between the old Anabaptists and the present Baptist groups.
Search Google under "Reformation persecution" and you will find "Anabaptists Menonites in Europe - persectution" That will give you some information.
Whilst it appears to be an Anabaptist site, and therefore not unbiased, it does tie in with my memory of my history lessons.
I'm afraid I can't recal names of my school text books
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/31/06


Hello Alan, Steve never answered me on the information. Since you seem to know about it, where can I find that which you mentioned. Just for my studies.
---Lupe2618 on 1/31/06


The popular concensus of what a Calvinist is, is simply someone that believes God saves some people but permits others to be damned. That one really has no decision in the salvation or damnation process. If you are predestined to be saved, then you will be. But God has created some to be damned for His own glory.

For instance, Pharoah was brought up for the purpose of displaying God's wrath as was Esau who sold his birthright for a cup of soup.
---lee on 1/28/06


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Since you ask what is a calvinits, I will answer this way, A Calvinits is someone who says, "Salvation is of the Lord". That is the epitome of Calvinism. It is the essence of the Bible. "He only is my rock and my salvation. What is the heresy of Rome, but the ADDITION of something to the perfect merits of Jesus Christ-the bringing in of the works of the flesh, to assist in our justification. And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer.
---Lupe2618 on 1/27/06


Thank's Alan for the info. I wanted Steve to give me the names of the books or material that he read that speak the reformers persecuted the Baptist. I have infomation about the history of the church and especially the Catholic church, but have not read yet on this perticular persecution he is talking about. It is just for my information. I hear people speak about something and many times its what they feel and not learned from someone or someplace. In his case, he brought it up and just wanted to verify.
---Lupe2618 on 1/26/06


Lupe ... in the days of the reformation, there was on both sides of it ... Catholic & Reformers, a great dislike of anyone who di not conform. Remember too that the rulers used religion to control their subjects. Whoever was in poer persecuted anyone whp did not follw thier declared religion. So yes reformers persecuted baptists and if baptists or calvinists were in power they persecuted anyone else.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/23/06


2. Second, can you give where you got the information about reformers and their followers persecuting the baptist? What made the baptist so different against the reformers that they would have to persecute them? Not the Roman Catholic church, but the reformers and followers. I would like to know where you got that information and who wrote it. a lot of stuff happened way back but everything can be looked up. Just for my information.
---Lupe2618 on 1/23/06


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Brother Steve, I read all you wrote but when speaking of Baptist, which ones are you talking about? As in many denominations, there is a great difference in each one. There is division in all of them. I know cause I have been to a few and they teach different in many of them. Just a question on my part.
---Lupe2618 on 1/22/06


It seems most religions have had some persecutions. Even Catholics and Mormons have been killed for thier faith. I believe you Steve that Baptists are not protestants.
---john on 1/21/06


Note carefully that this knowledgeable Catholic scholar has spoken of the vicious persecution Baptists have endured, that he clearly distinguishes them from the Reformers, and that he dates them 1,200 years before the Protestant Reformation.. It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers. Uncounted thousands of them lost their goods, their lands, and their lives in these persecutions.
---Steve on 1/20/06


Part 10: Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of nonCatholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius says, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers" (Letters Apud Opera, pp.112, 113).
---Steve on 1/20/06


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Part 9: Full historical data immediately refutes the view that there was only one religious group -- the Roman Catholic church -until the time of Martin Luther.
Cardinal Hosius (1504-1579) was a Roman Catholic prelate who had as his life work the investigation and suppression of non-Catholic groups. By Pope Paul IV he was designated one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent.
---Steve on 1/20/06


Part 8: Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names. There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.), and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation.
---Steve on 1/20/06


The Baptists never left the Roman Catholic church as did Luther, Calvin and Zwingli. They never left because they were never in. They did not begin their existence at the time of the Reformation, but hundreds of years prior to the Reformation.

Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succession back to the age of the Apesties.
---Steve on 1/20/06


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