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Did Jesus Have Brothers

Did Jesus have brothers when He lived in the flesh on earth? I know that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. I have heard this is true that Mary had other Children besides Jesus, after Jesus was born.

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Ruben - *Which scriptures, the didache, letters of Barnabas, letters of Clements and some of Paul's writing which by the way did not make the cut. All of these were read and consider to be part of scripture.

If you are really interested in being totally convinced why some books 'did not make the cut' as scripture, I would strongly suggest that you read Bruce Metzger work in this area. Why ask me when you can get the research of a true expert in this area?

You have me wondering what Paul's writings were not included in the New Testament?
---Lee1538 on 12/17/08


And that basically says what was traditionally regarded as scripture by the universal (or catholic) church became the canon and was so declared officially at the councils as a guard against heretical beliefs.

Even Tertullian (2d to 3rd century) stated that the scripture belongs to the church and it suffices to look at the ancient churches where scripture is read and interpreted in a consistent manner since the times of the Apostles - Story of Christianity by Gonzalez.
---Lee1538 on 12/16/08


Which scriptures, the didache, letters of Barnabas, letters of Clements and some of Paul's writing which by the way did not make the cut. All of these were read and consider to be part of scripture.
---Ruben on 12/17/08


I DO NOT KNOW IF JESUS HAD BROTHERS,BUT I DO KNOW HE IS THE SON OF GOD AND MY SAVIOR (FOR ALL OF HIS PEOPLE)
---BOBBYANN on 12/17/08


Ruben - *that the church tradition determines the canon, furnishes the KEY TO THE TRUE INTERPRETATION of the Scriptures, and guards them against heretical abuse." (volume 3, page 606)

And that basically says what was traditionally regarded as scripture by the universal (or catholic) church became the canon and was so declared officially at the councils as a guard against heretical beliefs.

Even Tertullian (2d to 3rd century) stated that the scripture belongs to the church and it suffices to look at the ancient churches where scripture is read and interpreted in a consistent manner since the times of the Apostles - Story of Christianity by Gonzalez.
---Lee1538 on 12/16/08


*The Holy Spirit has given us just the right amount of books, inspired books, recorded by men of God, inspired by the HS, that harmonize with each other.

And I believe Ruben would add that He has also given us an infallible interpreter in the Roman Catholic church.
---Lee1538 on 12/16/08




Your view that it took the Roman Church to confirm what was Scripture is totally fallacious.

Those councils merely conferred the majority view already expressed in the church.

---Lee1538 on 12/16/08


Philip Schaff, Presbyterian/Reformed, History of the Christian Church

" The divine Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, as opposed to human writings, AND the ORAL TRADITION or LIVING FAITH of the catholic church from the apostles down, -- the saving revelation of God in Christ, with this difference in form and office, that the church tradition determines the canon, furnishes the KEY TO THE TRUE INTERPRETATION of the Scriptures, and guards them against heretical abuse." (volume 3, page 606)
---Ruben on 12/16/08


The Holy Spirit has given us just the right amount of books, inspired books, recorded by men of God, inspired by the HS, that harmonize with each other.
---Mike356 on 12/15/08


I have 7 more books, so how does one determine if I have 7 extras or you are missing 7 books. Where does the Holy Spirit tell us that there only x amount of books in the bible?
---Ruben on 12/16/08


Mike* As has been said here before. When a books history, geography, it's people, it's message(non-spiritual in nature)or even semi-spiritual, Does not line up with the OT/NT scriptures. And is written by an author that can't be verified. We don't consider them valid.


Can you verified who was the Author of the Gospel of Matthew and Mark and Hebrews. Give chapter, verse where they claim it was them!
---Ruben on 12/16/08


Mike :-The unverifiable to your satisfaction, has been Verified in The DRV,latin Vulgate which you refuse to accept.The children which you claim were Jesus Brothers were in reality the Children of Mary of Cleophas the Virgins Sister.JN19:25 & LK23:49, Matt:2755-56.If you cant believe is b/C you do not wish too.you are convinced in your mind.
---MIC on 12/16/08


Ruben - *Than what does thay say about the Council of Carthage, Council of Hippo and the Council of Rome who vertified which Books belong in the bible which you hold very dearly!

Your view that it took the Roman Church to confirm what was Scripture is totally fallacious.

Those councils merely conferred the majority view already expressed in the church.

And there was a need due to such heresies as Montanism & Gnosticism to officially conferred what constituted Scripture. -The Story of Christianity by J. Gonzalez - common text used in many seminaries.
---Lee1538 on 12/16/08




As has been said here before. When a books history, geography, it's people, it's message(non-spiritual in nature)or even semi-spiritual, Does not line up with the OT/NT scriptures. And is written by an author that can't be verified. We don't consider them valid.

The phrase" If They SHOULD Be Written Every One" does Not suggest that anymore were?! And is one the RCC intimates has been done and canonizes them to try to justifiy their validity.

The Holy Spirit has given us just the right amount of books, inspired books, recorded by men of God, inspired by the HS, that harmonize with each other.
---Mike356 on 12/15/08


Mike as you should know :

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."(Jhn 21:25)

Besides not recored are the names of the books of the NT, give Book,chapter and verse that gives us a list of the canonical books of NT,OT?
---Ruben on 12/15/08

This one(Jn12:25) always intrigued me Ruben. Because the RCC claims to have the inside scoop on such books. You can google to look them up if you like! I have no respect for their authority. As is true for most of the Non-Catholic,Anglican,Orthidox,denominational scholars.
---Mike356 on 12/15/08


Ruben, thank's for answering. I am not sure if what is written of Athanasius is even his whole writings as he wrote it. For one, he is only giving his opinion, and that has no scriptural value unless he proofs it is authoritive from Scripture.
Another thing, is that the writings of the so-called Apostolic Fathers are, alas!
---MarkV. on 12/14/08


Than what does thay say about the Council of Carthage, Council of Hippo and the Council of Rome who vertified which Books belong in the bible which you hold very dearly!
---Ruben on 12/15/08


mic,
again you have mixed your timeframes up.
Mary said that about her conception of Jesus.
But we are talking ABOUT AFTER JESUS WAS BORN.
You confuse something that was not confusing to Luke. He wrote this gospel in the GREEK. If he said cousin in the greek then He meant cousin. If he said brother as in maternal then he meant it in that way. If Luke said brethren, as in you and I in Christ, he meant it. So how can you confuse what they say about Jesus? There is none. if it says Mary had sons and daughters then it means maternal, not in the Christian sense.
Again, you think that if She had a real relationship with Joseph AFTER JESUS was born, that it takes away from her, WHEN IT DOES NOT.
---miche3754 on 12/15/08


The problem with your reasoning here is that this IS recorded in Gods word. And the assumption of Mary IS Not.
If it was of such importance to the church. Then why didn't John write about it since Christ charged John with caring for her, and he would have been there to see it?
---Mike356 on 12/12/08

Mike as you should know :

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."(Jhn 21:25)

Besides not recored are the names of the books of the NT, give Book,chapter and verse that gives us a list of the canonical books of NT,OT?
---Ruben on 12/15/08


Ruben, thank's for answering. I am not sure if what is written of Athanasius is even his whole writings as he wrote it. For one, he is only giving his opinion, and that has no scriptural value unless he proofs it is authoritive from Scripture.
Another thing, is that the writings of the so-called Apostolic Fathers are, alas! They come down to us, for the most part, in very uncertain condition: Partly, because in early times writings were counterfeited under the name of those venerable men of the church, in order to propagate certan opinions or principles, partly, because those writings which they had really published were adulterated, and especially so to serve a Judaeo-hierarchical party, which would fain crush the free evangelical Spirit.
---MarkV. on 12/14/08


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Mische:-To assume =to pretend or take for granted.What are you taking for Granted in the face of the Explaination that the people mentioned were 'not' Jesus siblings. and what earthly value is there in making this your life long project which you know is futile.The children as explained were Mary of Cleophas's Children.Mary herself declares "I do not know man"and the other verse in Matt says "he knew her not till the birth of Jesus .which could mean he continued to live his life in complete contentment even after Jesus was Born.Men/women of the fleshful anxiety Today, cannot see this.but nearly 1900 years later,she declares herself as "The Immaculate Conception"
---MIC on 12/13/08


So Elijah and Enoch both were pretend to have and the two witness in the Book of Revelation again was pretend to have assume to heaven...Funny!
---Ruben on 12/12/08

The problem with your reasoning here is that this IS recorded in Gods word. And the assumption of Mary IS Not.
It's an Unfounded assumption to be sure.
Again, If it was of such importance to the church. Then why didn't John write about it since Christ charged John with caring for her, and he would have been there to see it? To Not record it would be close to a sin in RCC thought!
It's a fable, turned tradition, sold as truth.
John would not have dishonored Jesus or Mary if this were true. Think about it!
---Mike356 on 12/12/08


Mike, does scripture say that the Apostles were fiil with the Holy Spirit even in their mother's womb in the upper room like it say John was in the womb of his mom!
---Ruben on 12/12/08

This one is even more ridiculous, Ruben.
The "assumption" of Mary's Assumption is bad enough.

Once again, God's word records that Jesus "Alone is Sinless".
1John3:5, And you know that he was Manifested to take away our sins, and In Him Is No Sin.

There is no "manifestation" (something obvious) about Mary or John the baptist being sinless. This one inparticular is blasphemous. It takes away from the Majesty and Sovereignty of God
---Mike356 on 12/12/08


ruben, and mic,
I don't know what you are reading in my posts, but I never said Mary wasn't the Mother of Jesus. I explained something that was asked by ruben.
If your Mother wanted to talk to you and you totally ignore the request how are you honoring her? And to top it off in front of a crowd!
---Ruben on 12/10/08
What I said explained it.
Jesus was BOTH human (from Mary) AND DEVINE(from GOD)---DUHHHH!!!!!
But Jesus was THE ONLY SON OF GOD, not the only son of Mary. That is what I said.
See John 1:14
---miche3754 on 12/12/08


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Thats a pretty big assumption assuming the Assumption of Mary, Ruben.
A definition under assume is:"To pretend to have". I think the RCC pretended that she did!
Under assuming: "Taking too much for granted." Also, presumptuous.
---Mike356 on 12/11/08

So Elijah and Enoch both were pretend to have and the two witness in the Book of Revelation again was pretend to have assume to heaven...Funny!
---Ruben on 12/12/08


Another rediculous misinterpretation Ruben!
The apostles and all in the upper room were Filled with the Holy Spirit, and still Sinners!

If John was concieved like everyone else, and theres nothing in scripture to say otherwise. Then he was born in sin like the rest of us, As was Mary.

cont...
---Mike356 on 12/12/08

Mike, does scripture say that the Apostles were fiil with the Holy Spirit even in their mother's womb in the upper room like it say John was in the womb of his mom!
---Ruben on 12/12/08


Ruben, since you said all this people believed that Mary was sinless, can you give statements from at least two that stated what you stated? just two will do. Their explanations please.
---MarkV. on 12/12/08


Athanasius:

"Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary" (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

"The friends of Christ do not tolerate hearing that the Mother of God ever ceased to be a virgin" Basil, Homily In Sanctum Christi generationem, 5 (ante A.D. 379).
---Ruben on 12/12/08


uben,
John the Baptist Being Born with the Holy Spirit UPON him does not mean he was not born without or into sin. ALL are born into sin. Jesus is perfect because He did not sin.

---miche3754 on 12/12/08

Miche verse reads "and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." Nothing hear says anything about upon, so it is safe to say that he also was born w/o orginal sin
---Ruben on 12/12/08


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Ruben, since you said all this people believed that Mary was sinless, can you give statements from at least two that stated what you stated? just two will do. Their explanations please. Just saying they did and not given any proof they did is not fact they even said it. While I believe you will not be able to do that I still think it would be proper. You could say I said something that I never said, as so many do here.
Not that by saying they believed Mary was sinless will it be truth since it is not found in Scripture, but I am willing to listen to at least two. Thanks for you diligent work.
---MarkV. on 12/12/08


ruben,
John the Baptist Being Born with the Holy Spirit UPON him does not mean he was not born without or into sin. ALL are born into sin. Jesus is perfect because He did not sin.
John the Baptist was not perfect.
You have The Holy Spirit right but you had sin.
There is a difference between John the Baptist and Jesus. Jesus had the Holy Spirit INSIDE him. John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit ON him.
God pours out his spirit(HOLY Spirit) upon all flesh but there has only been one that was born with the Holy Spirit inside them- JESUS, the Son of God.
This is why we have to be "Born Again" into salvation.
This is why the RCC theory about Mary is wrong. She did have more children AFTER she had Jesus.
---miche3754 on 12/12/08


The Father and I are one.Miche
---MIC on 12/11/08


Ruben - and who exactly of the early church proclaimed Mary to be sinless and did not experience death? I love to see your research on this subject.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


Ruben --- I'm trying to think of somebody that, according to Scripture, was born without sin.
I can think of no one...except maybe Adam and Eve before the fall. Can you give some examples...along with Scripture that proves their sinlessness?
---Donna66 on 12/10/08

Thats a pretty big assumption assuming the Assumption of Mary, Ruben.
A definition under assume is:"To pretend to have". I think the RCC pretended that she did!
Under assuming: "Taking too much for granted." Also, presumptuous.
---Mike356 on 12/11/08


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Ruben --- I'm trying to think of somebody according to Scripture, was born without sin.
I can think of no one...except maybe Adam and Eve before the fall. Can you give some examples... with Scripture that proves their sinlessness?
---Donna66 on 12/10/08


John the baptist : Luke 1:15 "and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."
---Ruben on 12/11/08

Another rediculous misinterpretation Ruben!
The apostles and all in the upper room were Filled with the Holy Spirit, and still Sinners!

If John was concieved like everyone else, and theres nothing in scripture to say otherwise. Then he was born in sin like the rest of us, As was Mary.

cont...
---Mike356 on 12/12/08


As far as Mary is concerned!,

Galations4:4-5, But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a women, MADE UNDER THE LAW,
(V5) To Redeem Them That Were UNDER THE LAW,......

Death, Bloodshed, was required for our sins. When from the beginning, God killed a beast for skins to cover Adam and Eves nakedness(sin).The 1st blood sacrifice!

Mary(The "made of a woman" part), Under The Law, meant that she was born with sin. It HAD to BE in order for Jesus to die for the Law of Sin and Death.

If BOTH were Sinless as the RCC claims. Then HOW was the Law fulfilled?
---Mike356 on 12/12/08


Ruben, Mic, catholics, cont...
I know you think that Mary recieved SPECIAL GRACES an had no sin. But that wouldn't help the rest of us!

If Jesus was not connected with us in that way. With someone UNDER the LAW, WITH SIN. THEN WE ARE STILL IN OUR SINS, AND NOT FORGIVEN!

Mary was a sinner. Just like us, that the law of sin and death would be fulfilled by His, "Once for All" sacrifice.
---Mike356 on 12/12/08


Ruben:- you forgot GOD HIMSELF in Genesis 3:15 THE woman He created.
---MIC on 12/11/08


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Remember Jesus was both man and Divine Spirit(GOD). Two parts.
God was the Divine part, Mary the flesh(man part). So yes it make sense for Jesus to say that.
The Divine(GOD) part of Jesus had No part of Mary. It was of God.
So yes, in the flesh, Jesus did honor his mother. But the God part of Him didn't have too because it did not come from her. It came from GOD only.
---miche3754 on 12/11/08

Miche Mary was the Mother of God the Son:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us"
---Ruben on 12/11/08


A of Uk :-I took your advice checked The catholica Encyclopaedia on the CN search engine Typed in Virgin Mary /Children Got the New Advent screen and checked Perpetual Virginity Of the BVMary and Got the same result which I have declared Those mentioned were Cousins (Children of Mary of Cleophas)Dont know why The Mods did not print it.But will send you an e mail.
---MIC on 12/11/08


Ruben - and who exactly of the early church proclaimed Mary to be sinless and did not experience death? I love to see your research on this subject.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


Fathers who said she was Sinless:Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Gregory Nazianzen, Gregory Nyssa, Cyril of Jerusalem, Epiphanius, Athanasius, Jerome, Eusebius, Ephraim, Ambrose, Augustine, Proclus, Theodotus, Peter Chrysologus, Andrew of Crete, Fulgentius, Leo the Great, Gregory the Great, Germanus, John Damascene.
---Ruben on 12/11/08


Ruben --- I'm trying to think of somebody that, according to Scripture, was born without sin.
I can think of no one...except maybe Adam and Eve before the fall. Can you give some examples...along with Scripture that proves their sinlessness?
---Donna66 on 12/10/08


John the baptist : Luke 1:15 "and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."
---Ruben on 12/11/08


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ruben, when Jesus made that statement"Here is your Mother, take care of her" He was speaking through the Holy Spirit within him. Mary was not the Mother of that part of Jesus. Remember Jesus was both man and Divine Spirit(GOD). Two parts.
God was the Divine part, Mary the flesh(man part). So yes it make sense for Jesus to say that.
The Divine(GOD) part of Jesus had No part of Mary. It was of God.
So yes, in the flesh, Jesus did honor his mother. But the God part of Him didn't have too because it did not come from her. It came from GOD only.
Remember Jesus is the ONLY begotten of THE FATHER(GOD), not the mother(Mary).
---miche3754 on 12/11/08


Ruben --- I'm trying to think of somebody that, according to Scripture, was born without sin.
I can think of no one...except maybe Adam and Eve before the fall. Can you give some examples...along with Scripture that proves their sinlessness?
---Donna66 on 12/10/08


Ruben - and who exactly of the early church proclaimed Mary to be sinless and did not experience death? I love to see your research on this subject.

While the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth, the truth that it holds up (the function of a pillar & buttress), is the truth of the gospel message itself.

And scripture proclaims that the church was built on the apostles & prophets with christ as the cornerstone, not upon a single apostles or person.Eph. 2:20.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


Again, there is nothing in Scripture nor in early church history that attests to the belief in any of the Marian doctrines and there is one record to the effect that Mary died a natural death - the penalty for all that have sinned.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08

There are verses in scripture that tells us that people were assumed in Heaven and that people were born without sin and Early Church Fathers who wrote Mary was one of them. And as for the penalty for all that have sinned , scripture tell us the " Church is the pillar and ground of the truth"
---Ruben on 12/10/08


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Ruben - *Actually Lee, she does (support His ministry):

You ignore the reason why Jesus' mother & brothers showed up in the first place. They thought Jesus was crazy and wanted to stop what He was doing.

Again, there is nothing in Scripture nor in early church history that attests to the belief in any of the Marian doctrines and there is one record to the effect that Mary died a natural death - the penalty for all that have sinned.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


No not at all! While Jesus obeyed the commandment, that does not mean that He needed to be submissive to her. If your mother tells you to do something wrong, do you honor her by obeying her?
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08

If your Mother wanted to talk to you and you totally ignore the request how are you honoring her? And to top it off in front of a crowd!
---Ruben on 12/10/08


Mic ... I really don't know about the imprimatur.

But you should perhaps look at it to see what it says. Then you could pass comment on it, and not just agnore it
---alan_of_UK on 12/10/08


A of Uk:- I have never used "Catholica Encyclopaedia.Is it Imprimatured with Nihil Obstat.and by who?My concordance which I quote has this seal of authenticity.
Mische :-If you speak truth then God must be lying-RIGHT.You speak a truth which you cannot substantiate.But just claim by rote.The Catholic Church which is guided by the H/S is more aunthetic than Michies word.I shall not add further comment.
---MIC on 12/10/08


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again mic, you resort to your false testaments.
You do know that that is the only translation that says it like that, right? Well, I wonder why? maybe rcc biased.
We have already broken down the fact that the rcc bible is false in its translations and added books.
And I might add, the story you are requesting I read, if it is NOT BIBLICAL then why should I care what man thinks?
Only God is important here and the TRUTH which you fail to see.
But I continue to pray for you.
The fact still remains that AFTER JESUS WAS BORN, Mary was No longer a virgin!!
---miche3754 on 12/10/08


Mic ... Iread the RCC's own explanation in The Catholica Encyclopaedia, which says the vulgate words in Genesis differ from the original texts.
---alan_of_UK on 12/10/08


"It takes away from what she did,but truly it does not diminish Mary at all in my eyes"You miss the point Fact is TRUTH supposition and innuendo is False.This is the RCC version.Christians have a doubt. If you were a virgin would it be Right or wrong for me to doubt your statement if you said you were a virgin. It may not matter a whit to me but your statement is TRUTH, b/c only You know the fact,when you make that statement.
---MIC on 12/10/08


And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, Here are My mother and My brothers!For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.

We even notice here that Jesus did not even honor Mary his earthly mother, nor was he obedient to her as she apparently did not even support His ministry.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/08

Actually Lee, she does: "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to " thy word . And the angel departed from her.
---Ruben on 12/10/08


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Ruben - *Then Lee what you are saying is Jesus disobey his own commanment " Honor your Mother and your Father"..aren't we told to imitate Christ?

No not at all! While Jesus obeyed the commandment, that does not mean that He needed to be submissive to her. If your mother tells you to do something wrong, do you honor her by obeying her?

Romans Catholicism in making Mary the source of all graces, apparently believes that Jesus must always be submissive to His mother - thus your eternal salvation is thru Mary, not Jesus.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


alan_of_UK - apparently MIC relies not on what the Bible says but upon what the Apparition of Mary has stated in that she was the immaculate conception that will crush the head of the serpent.
---Lee1538 on 12/10/08


Alan of UK :-Did you ever look up the Douay Rheims version and the Textual Concordance of the HOLY Scripturesas Imprimatured by the Roman Catholic church which is GOD's word in Matt16:13-19, which you say you do not believe.
"SHE shall crush your head"it is in bold print.Gen3:15 forewarned is forearmed.
---MIC on 12/10/08


Alan of UK :-Did you ever look up the Douay Rheims version and the Textual Concordance of the HOLY Scripturesas Imprimatured by the Roman Catholic church which is GOD's word in Matt16:13-19, which you say you do not believe.
"SHE shall crush your head"it is in bold print.Gen3:15 forewarned is forearmed.Read the story of Lourdes and Fatima.if you want to hear Her words.
---MIC on 12/10/08


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Mische :God does not break His own commandment-Thou shalt not Kill.Why should you worry about my ineptitude,which I am positive does not exist on such matters.But i give you Jesus words "Women of Jerusalem weep not for me but for yourself and your children.also readLuke1:41-49,Isiah7:14-You seem to know about Mary's power-how do you know that?Yes I will press on till all get it Right even YOU.
---MIC on 12/10/08


Mic ... "She shall crush your head""
Did you ever look up the Catholic Encyclopaedia? It confirms that was not the original text which referred to the woman's saeed.

"Mary the Mother of Jesus is the Immaculate Conception as she herself stated to the children" What do you mean here? Where did Mary state that she was sinless?
---alan_of_UK on 12/10/08


We even notice here that Jesus did not even honor Mary his earthly mother, nor was he obedient to her as she apparently did not even support His ministry.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/08

Then Lee what you are saying is Jesus disobey his own commanment " Honor your Mother and your Father"..aren't we told to imitate Christ?
---ruben on 12/10/08


mic,
again it is not Mary that crushes anyone's head BUT THE SEED OF EVE THE WOMAN GOD WAS REFERING TO. THAT SEED IS JESUS. Mary was just a plain woman. JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE!
So, Mary does not have the power to crush anyone.
I can only apologize for your ineptitude. Only God can point you in the right way. AND believe me, I pray for you everyday on it.
Your obvious misinterpretatioan of the Bible shows that when you say God is talking about Mary.
It is alright. Press on til you get it RIGHT!
---miche3754 on 12/9/08


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Mische you do take liberties by the use of your imagination.Mic speaks for Mic and does not need a prompt or cohersion.Mary the Mother of Jesus is the Immaculate Conception as she herself stated to the children.This makes Her a virgin from start to finish, the one conceived by God .Her mould was broken. Despite the wailings of those who use all tactics to prove otherwise and I might add that the eternal price is forever.Satan did cause this to take away the focus from Himself"She shall crush your head"and his seed who shall set up a wailing which will resound up hill and down Dale -BUT TOO LATE .
---MIC on 12/9/08


Matthew 12:46f While He was still talking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers stood outside, seeking to speak with Him. Then one said to Him, Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You.But He answered and said to the one who told Him, Who is My mother and who are My brothers? And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, Here are My mother and My brothers!For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.

We even notice here that Jesus did not even honor Mary his earthly mother, nor was he obedient to her as she apparently did not even support His ministry.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/08


alan, you are right, but mic believes, as all RCC do, that if Mary had intimacy with her husband AFTER Jesus was born, it takes away from what she did. When truly it does not diminish Mary at all in my site.
She is still the Mother of Christ.
Intimacy with Joseph does not change that.
I believe making her a forever virgin was the RCC way of lifting her up as a goddess.
I am not saying mic does this. But surely there are some who really believe this and it is backfiring in the face of the RCC because they created this myth about Mary.
I believe it was the enemy(satan) that caused this to happen therefore removing temporarily the focus off Jesus, who is the one and ONLY Savior and causing a rift in the body of Christ.
---miche3754 on 12/9/08


Mic ... We too arew related to God, but not by blood

Jesus' brothers would not be related by blood either, being the sons of Mary & Joseph, not directly the blood sons of God, as Jesus was.
---alan_of_UK on 12/9/08


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All who detract the word of God shall be punished Lev,19:16.Jesus Had no Brothers sisters mother Matt( Jesus kindred) except those who did the will of His Father.Therefore be warned.read titus 3:1-2
---MIC on 12/9/08


One thing that has not been examined on this particular thread is the fact that if the mother of Jesus were not a perpetual virgin, then the words of the Apparitions of Mary would certain have to be considered false as that entity has proclaimed herself as being a perpetual virgin as well as the immaculate conception.

And the Roman Church recognizes the person of the Apparition as being Mary the mother of Jesus as well as the validity of the Marian doctrines.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/08


ruben,
stop trying to trap someone with your staements.
Brother I read an updated translation of the Bible.
When it says brother in the flesh it means literally. When it is speaking of brother or sister in Spirit it says brethren.
That is the difference. You may want to update the version you read since the RCC Bible is false anyway. For my comments see the blog under that topic.
So no what you said is false.
---miche3754 on 12/9/08


I will continue to believe that the Greek is correct in that Mary did indeed have other children and in the natural way.

I am astonished that the Roman Catholic has such a low road view of sex, making it something that defiles even in the marriage of Joseph & Mary.

And one has to admit that there is nothing to indicate Joseph or Mary did not have normal sexual desires.

The Roman Catholic view on this subject is simply untenable.
---Lee1538 on 12/9/08


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Luke uses the word "Adelphos" which means brother in Luke 10:29 "Who is my neighbor",same thing for Acts 3:17-7:23.Romans 1:13.9:3 and Matthew 7:3 and others.
---Ruben on 12/8/08

That is correct Ruben!
The point is: That luke did not change those references from brother(adelphos) to 'cousin' or 'relative' as the RCC would have you believe.
The greek and Luke make that clear.
---Mike356 on 12/9/08


So when I say you are my brother or sister in Christ then we are blood relative!
---Ruben on 12/8/08

Ruben!?,
Ephesians 1:5, Having predestined us To ADOPTION as sons BY Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
We are Adopted sons and daughters.
Read your bible!


Alan of Uk:- you say Faulty but theoritically,is it not true? if Jesus had a brother he would be related to God too Yes it is ludicrous, so is the fact that Jesus had no Brothers But Brethren. Paul calls every one MY Bro & sisters so where is the relationship.NONE.Same way Brethren of Jesus Matt12:46-50
---MIC on 12/8/08

Mic!?, Jesus brothers and sisters are step-children, from joseph, Not God!
---Mike356 on 12/9/08


Why is it so important to you to prove that He did have siblings? Just so you can pin another "lie" on the RCC?
---alan_of_UK on 12/8/08

Revelations 21:8, But the Cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, Idolaters, And ALL LIARS shall have their part in the Lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

The RCC(Rome) will go their way as the High Priests at Jerusalem did in Jesus day.

The Hope is to not let the decieved, The faithful Catholic Parishioners, go along with them! Nothing less than what Jesus did when His OWN priests would not listen.
He went to the people.
---Mike356 on 12/8/08


That are clear in their meaning. Since this is so, when it says in English that it is brother or cousin or brethren, it is literal.
---miche3754 on 12/8/08


So when I say you are my brother or sister in Christ then we are blood relative!
---Ruben on 12/8/08


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Alan of Uk:- you say Faulty but theoritically,is it not true? if Jesus had a brother he would be related to God too Yes it is ludicrous, so is the fact that Jesus had no Brothers But Brethren. Paul calls every one MY Bro & sisters so where is the relationship.NONE.Same way Brethren of Jesus Matt12:46-50 Jesus's declaration."those who do te will of my Father are my Brother,sister and Mother.
---MIC on 12/8/08


Yes Mary had orther children by Joseph but they were natural jesus was concieved threw the pureness of a virgin
---lawrence on 12/8/08


again, ruben. The book of luke has been translated from the greek to english.
It was WRITTEN in greek not aramaic.
The OT is written in either aramaic or hebrew.
You really need to get Strong's concordance.
What was translated from greek to english is literal words.
Greek HAS words for cousin, brother, brethren.
That are clear in their meaning. Since this is so, when it says in English that it is brother or cousin or brethren, it is literal.
Again mic, the only person EVER born HOLY on THIS PLANET IN THIS UNIVERSE..... IS JESUS CHRIST...
---miche3754 on 12/8/08


Luke uses the word 'suggenes'(cousin), Specificaly, refering to Elizabeth.

Furthermore, in Lk.1:58 he uses the word 'suggeneia'(relatives) when refering to her neighbors and cousins hearing of the Lords mercy on her.
---Mike356 on 12/6/08

Luke uses the word "Adelphos" which means brother in Luke 10:29 "Who is my neighbor",same thing for Acts 3:17-7:23.Romans 1:13.9:3 and Matthew 7:3 and others.
---Ruben on 12/8/08


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Mic ... "Can anyone explain why are they trying to prove- Jesus had Brothers- cause if HE DID then Almighty God would have other sons"

Your biology seems to be at fault.

No-one has ever suggested that God had other children.

IF Jesus had brothers, Joseph would be the father, and Mary the mother.

That would not make God their father
---alan_of_UK on 12/8/08


Mische:-I cannot force you to read what is Not there But MY Book in Gen3:14-15 clearely states "He was talking to the serpent"in gen3:16 "To the woman he said" I quote.If you do not believe in the"HOLY FAMILY"it is your unfortunate privelege.If Mike is correct and you agree with Him then you are both wrong.The Book mentions BRETHEREN.which is NOT BROTHERS even if the sky turns pink white or technicolour.I gave you an extract.You did not agree with me about prayers for the dead till you read it for yourself.I cannot do more.The children were Mary's sisters children, who had 'no'[ legal obligation to take care of Mary at the crucifixition. JESUS KNEW that.You trust others but not your God given intelligence.
---MIC on 12/8/08


Alan of UK:- You did express your opibnion to Mike admirably.It was Honest.
---MIC on 12/8/08


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