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Teaching Evolution In School

In my daughters high school they are teaching evolution. She now says, at age 16 that she has no problem with it. My wife says let it go, I want to pull her out of that goverment school. Unsure.

Moderator - It is only a theory, not a scientific fact. Hopefully, it was taught as such. Otherwise educate her in the truth of why it is a theory by asking her questions which will point to that truth.

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MikeMocker: "For the scientist its, "here are the evidence and facts, how do we intrepret them"

Sure, and creationist scientists interpret the facts in the light of God's propositional revelation of world history. Evolutionist scientists interpret them as if there is no God, or at least none who has specially created or judged the world by a global cataclysm. Indeed, the difference is not the facts but their interpretation.
---Ktisophilos on 5/9/07


For the fundamentalist, its 'a priori' Its a religious conviction. "here is the conclusion,(Bible, literal face value) lets find evidence to back it up"

For the scientist its, "here are the evidence and facts, how do we intrepret them"

Who are the scientists here?
---MikeM on 5/8/07


Warwick ... I would have more respect for you as a person if you did not continually try to discredit the integrity of those with whom you disagree.
I have answered your questions, but don't know if my answer will be published
---alan_of_UK on 5/8/07


Warwick ... We understand Exodus 20.11 differently. You say it shows God rested so that we will have the example and follow it.
But Genesis 2.2 says that God rested "from all His work" (and that is His motive, to rest), and I see Exodus saying just that we should do the same, because God had rested.
Not much difference, but it's slightly different.
---alan_of_UK on 5/7/07


Warwick ... I do not pretend to be a scientist.
You find Truth in Genesis by regarding it as a strictly literal minute-by-minute account.
I find God's Truth by viewing Genesis Creation as a broad-brush description, which may not be intended to be scientifically complete and accurate.
I for one am not arrogant enough to say that I know one way or the other.
---alan_of_UK on 5/7/07




Alan: Warwick raises some good questions. I know that you are a rather intellectual fellow, so could you please provide us with several core reasons why you believe that the earth was not created in 6 literal 24-hour days? I'd like to hear them. As scientists, Warwick and I are naturally curious.
---jerry6593 on 5/5/07


AlanUK in my experience deceivers continue asking questions while refusing to answer questions they have been asked.

Where does it say why He rested? Read Scripture Alan-try Exodus 20: 8-10-one of the 10 Commandments Alan, inscribed directly by God. Read it carefully & you will see that in the creation days God was setting the pattern for our week.

I am waiting for an answer to my 'days' question to you, below. Have the honesty & courage to defend your beliefs. I won't hold my breath!
---Warwick on 5/4/07


Jerry, good points. Why do professing Christians so easily reject the plain meaning of God's inerrant word in favour of the constantly changing opinions of men?

The long ages/microbe to man idea constantly changes as new evidence contradicts old opinions but still they prefer this unscientific nonsense to the Truth of the Creator.

Defend Truth & expose lies.
---Warwick on 5/4/07


Warwick " ... so people would work 6 & rest the 7th"
Where does the Bible say that was the reason He rested?.
---alan_of_UK on 5/4/07


Jared: Now that's a fine thing. You are a pastor and you don't believe the Bible account of creation because it doesn't agree with a false view of science. I am a scientist (physics) and I believe the exact literal account of creation described in the Bible. All truly great men of science believed in God, and that true science was but a discovery of God's handiwork in nature. When you find disonnance between the Bible and science, why don't you look for the error in science rather than in God's Word?
---jerry6593 on 5/4/07




AlanofUK-In Genesis 1 God describes day as evening & morning(light & dark)& places 1st, 2nd,..before'day.' Hebrew/English allow three meanings of 'day' 1) Unbounded period of time-i.e in my fathers day. 2)Daylight 3) 24hrs. Always when a number is placed before 'day' or 'yom' English/Hebrew it means 24hrs.

God says he created in six 'days'& rested the 7th so people would work 6 & rest the 7th.

On what grounds do you reject the rules of grammar & the meaning of the Ten Commandments?
---Warwick on 5/4/07


Catherine:

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---jerry6593 on 5/4/07


Jared ... an answer to what question?
You already know that I do not consider that God meant days of our 24 hour length.
---alan_of_UK on 5/3/07


jared ... The Bible says God rested from all His work
---alan_of_UK on 5/3/07


I know that, but tradition is for me Sunday and God knows this. [He is all knowing.]
---catherine on 5/3/07


Catherine: The seventh day is the Sabbath - not Sunday.
---jerry6593 on 5/3/07


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God never gets tired. Us people that God creative gets tired. And the Sabbath was made for man, not man made for Sabbath. Keep it Holy and rest do only what is necessary. I KNOW this for a fact because, God payed me a visit on a Sunday and spoked those very words above there, that I just gave you. And said them to me face to face. I wanted to do a whole bunch of stuff on Sunday, Now I am very careful.
---catherine on 5/2/07


catherine on 5/1/07:
"Why are you into reasoning?"

Because God told Isaiah, "come let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18), Jesus told us that the greatest commandment was loving God with all our ... mind (Matthew 22:3638), Peter told us to give a reason for our hope (1 Peter 3:15), Paul told us to "be transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Romans 12:2).
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07


As explained on my other post, the problem is not with reasoning per se. But reason should be ministerial, i.e. based on biblical premises. The problem is a magisterial use of reason, where it starts from anti-biblical ideas like evolution, and sits in judgment upon what God revealed in Scripture.
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07


Jared: "You see No one was present when God created so we can only assume how it happened."

One out of two isn't bad ;) We don't have to assume, because God has told us in the Bible! But since no evolutionist was there as you say, why take his word over God's?
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07


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Jared: "What is going on here is exactly why many scientists never go to church."

Right! Why should atheistic scientists bother to come to a church where the pastor doesn't really believe his own book? After all, the message they hear is that whenever the Bible and "science" disagree, science has final authority and we must "reinterpret" the Bible? So why should scientists bother with a church and the Bible at all--why not stick with the real authority, science?
---Ktisophilos on 5/2/07


Alan: Glad you asked! No, God was not tired when He rested on the seventh day. It was for our benefit that He instituted this memorial of His creative power for us to REMEMBER Him by. He graciously condescended to grant us a weekly block of His valuable time to meet with us. No other god is CREATOR; no other rest day is valid. We'll make a Bible believer out of you yet.
---jerry6593 on 5/2/07


Catherine I reason because God says to defend the Truth of His Word & to give the 'reason' for the hope we have. We're children of faith-faith in reality not faith in faith. Not faith in human opinion but faith in His Word.

Some here show more faith in falible mans opinions than in the plain truth of God's eternal unchanging Word.

Genesis is the foundation of the reality of salvation, if we allow its truth to be undermined we undermine the reality for our need of salvation.
---Warwick on 5/2/07


Alan-once again you've ducked my question. I'd like an answer.

The 10 commandments(Ex. Ch.20) explain why God created in six earth rotation i.e ordinary days. God created the 7-day week as a pattern for man- work 6 rest 7th-a covenant. The Jews have since then observed this pattern.

An earth rotation day requires only a spinning earth and a light source. It is a measure of time for man, not for God as He is outside & before time.
---Warwick on 5/1/07


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Rest means to pause or cease a particular activity; it does not always mean one is exhausted or tired from activity nor does it always mean one is sleeping. "My help from YHWH, which made heaven and earth. YHWH that keeps you will not slumber. Note, he that keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep." Psalm 121:2-4. As right now, I will rest from posting, because right now I will go to another activity.
---Eloy on 5/1/07


i see nothing worng with teaching this as a theory. I also think the schools should get on the band wagon and teach about the seven major religionsof this world. to not do that would be detrimental to our youth. They need to know whats out there and why people are so convicted to their religion in order to understand how this world works and why people act the way they do in a certain sitiuation. this is only the basics behind my thoughts i'd like to hear yours.
---ramona on 5/1/07


Let me ask you a question. Why are you into reasoning? My God did what He did. If I spent all Day saying, "why God why How God How", I would never have time to pray to our creator.
---catherine on 5/1/07


If God did it just by speaking, why did he take a whole day over each element of Creation. After all, as Jerry says the Earth was created instantaneously.
And why did God need to rest on the 7th day?
---alan_of_UK on 5/1/07


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Jerry God with a speech impediment, that was a good one.

I just can't understand why Christians want to re-interpret & compromise God's perfect Word because of the vain & foolish philosophies of man.

If microbe to man evolution was a scientifically proven fact then we would have to take a second look at Genesis. But it isn't it's a lame duck, it just doesn't work, being contradicted by the plain meaning of scripture & the available evidence such as the polonium halos you mentioned.
---Warwick on 5/1/07


Jared-compromised Truth is no longer Truth. If we have to re-interpret the Bible to suit the beliefs of various groups then where do we stop?

I hope I haven't been hard on you, it wasn't my intent.

Over 13 years of intense Christian ministry I've spoken about 600 times in churches here & overseas, & met many scientists who were supportive of creation as per Genesis. I also spoke alongside numerous scientists who actively campaigned for the straightforward Genesis 6-day account. Continued
---Warwick on 4/30/07


Jared cont. We believe in Biblical creation by faith & when a person who is seeking the truth(scientist or not) comes to understand that microbe to man evolution is also a belief-not scientifically testable- then it has been my experience that holding to the historical truth of Genesis has rarely been a problem. I am sure you are a genuine Christian & suggest you do some research on the website creationontheweb God bless.
---Warwick on 4/30/07


Alan- first use of 'day'(Hebrew 'Yom')is in Genesis-God has defined 'day'-evening/morning/ first day, second day etc- as carefully as can be defined by language.

So do you agree God created the universe & earth in six earth rotation days as He says in Genesis & Exodus?

If not are you saying a 7-day week isn't 7 days long?

I'm convinced your reason for attempting to blur the meaning of Genesis creation is because you have a greater faith in the man made philosophy of evolution.
---Warwick on 4/30/07


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jerry6593, you made me laugh. That was a really good one, ...God with a speech impediment.
---Eloy on 4/30/07


Jared ... How glad I am to have someone here who agrees with me that "We will never know exactly how God created the universe, but we can preach that however God did it He brings meaning and purpose to life"
---alan_of_UK on 4/30/07


What is going on here is exactly why many scientists never go to church. I am a pastor in a church and most of you have come down on me like I was the plague. Open discussion is the key. We will never know exactly how God created the universe, but we can preach that however God did it He brings meaning and purpose to life. Without God we are just cosmic accidents living and dying, but with God we are much more. Read Matthew 7 again and see if you are following Christ.
---Jared on 4/30/07


Jared: The existence of Polonium halos, with their 3 second half-life, in foundational granite throughout the world is hard, incontrovertable evidence that the earth was created instantaneously. (c.f., R. Gentry, Creation's Tiny Mystery, ISBN 0-9616753-3-0) Or, you could simply believe the Bible:

Psa 33:9 For he spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Do you think that God has a speech impediment that it takes Him millions of years to get the words out?
---jerry6593 on 4/30/07


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Why is it that the school system that promotes open and honest scientific debate and discussion on most subjects wil not allow any dissenting opinions on certain subjects? Namely; God, Evolution, Global Warming. This opposition to open discussion is remeniscent of the geocentric edict "recant or die!"
---jerry6593 on 4/30/07


Jared-evolution as imagined is a slow,wasteful process,referred to as 'nature red in tooth & claw.' Why would God with power beyond our ability to imagine want to use such a slow clumsy process? A process where the strong rip the weak apart in the battle for survival. Is this consistent with His Word or His nature?

I see not one word in Scripture which supports your idea. Which of God's healing or miraculous acts was a 'process' rather than an immediate act?
---Warwick on 4/30/07


It immediately happened? does that mean instantly or does it mean he immediately set forth the process? it could be both. In God's time it doesn't matter because he is timeless.
---Jared on 4/29/07


You see No one was present when God created so we can only assume how it happened. As christians we believe God created it, but we don't know scientifically how, and we will probably never know how. But that is what theories such as Evolution try to do. There is nothing wrong with that in itself, it is only when they take God out of the equation when it becomes anti-God. But there are several good Christians that believe that God used evolution to create and that is just as biblical as any other theory.
---Jared on 4/29/07


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Jared God didn't use evolution-he speaks and it happens immediately!

The whole evolutionary idea is a man-created fantasy aimed at making God redundant. He created man in his image, unique in the whole creation & from dust of the ground therefore Adam didn't evolve from any pre-existant creature. Jesus said Adam was made at the beginning of creation not after evolutionary ages.

Who to trust perfect God or sinful man?
---Warwick on 4/29/07


I believe that God Created the Heavens and the Earth and that God brings meaning and purpose to life. do I know how he created it? NO if he wanted to use evolution I'm ok with that because for evolution to happen it would be a miracle. As Christians we should encourage science and research because it will eventually lead to God.
---Jared on 4/28/07


Warwick: Thanks for the clarification. The way language is used by evolutionists can be misleading.
Back in high school I was taught the concepts of natural selection as "adaptation" and "survival of the fittest," and the term "evolution" was reserved for the whole "ape-to-man" nonsense. (cont.)
---tracy3346 on 4/24/07


I'm thankful for a sincere biology teacher who used the classroom platform to teach science rather than promote an evolutionary faith; he was required by law to explain evolution, but he made a clear distinction between assumptions (what he called "theories") and the proven facts.
---tracy3346 on 4/24/07


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Pulling your daughter out of the government school is right. American schools have long been behind schools in many other countries.

The teachers' unions want to keep their monopoly by denying parents choices, i.e. voucher system. And the NEA supports abortion on demand, gay rights and the Democrats.

And as one official said, our members' jobs are the most important; why should we worry about the kids -- they aren't the ones paying union dues! See Ann Coulter's book "Godless".
---Ktisophilos on 4/24/07


Tracey natural selection refers to the ability of certain creatures in a group being able to adapt to new or changing conditions. It isn't evolution as no new genetic information is generated, the opposite in fact. If you dumped a pack of dogs in a very cold environment those of solid build & long hair would be more likely to survive & breed than skinny short haired ones. So the survivors have been 'selected' because they already had what was necessary to survive- hence 'natural selection.' Continued.
---Warwick on 4/24/07


Cont. Micro-evolution-a deceptive term created to make natural selection appear part of the supposed evolutionary process from microbe to man. Micro-evolutionary changes are seen to happen-fact. Selective breeding creates new varieties in a kind. We can breed smaller hairier dogs. The evolutionist tries (by deceptive language)to promote the idea that if you allow small changes within dogs(for example)long enough a dog will become a totally new kind- not a dog-fantasy- never been seen, can't be tested.
---Warwick on 4/24/07


Warwick,
Do the terms "Micro-evolution" and "Natural Selection" refer to the same thing?
---tracy3346 on 4/23/07


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Mat, it is not true to say that Darwinian evolution is compatible with God creating out of dust. If the dust were really a metaphor for the ape-like creature we allegedly evolved from, then when we die, we must return to simian form!
---Ktisophilos on 4/22/07


** Evolution has no base in fact(truth) and must remain a theory. **

The word "theory" has a different meaning in a scientific context from what it has in ordinary speech; in this case science uses the term "hypothesis."
---Jack on 4/22/07


Evolutionists often describe evolution as change using two terms- microevolution & macroevolution, blurring the distinction between them-claiming that small changes i.e. variation within dogs, if left long enough will produce a totally different creature

Microevolutionary changes were first discovered by a Christian,can be scientifically demonstrated-not evolution. Macroevolutionary changes are speculative-never seen to occur-can't be scientifically tested. One is fact the other fable.
---Warwick on 4/22/07


Evolution has no base in fact(truth) and must remain a theory. The bible however proves itself true by prophecies made and fulfilled. Example the new state of Isreal. The gatherimg back of the displaced Jews is prove positive of fulfilled prophecies. So we can have trust in His word!! Let us praise our God for what He has done,is now doing. and what He is going to do!!!
---mima on 4/22/07


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My entry on 2/23 wasn't clear. And I never came back. Will try this: Macro-evolution sees things as developing from the simple to the complex (e.g. protozoa to fish, birds, mammals etc). This contradicts what we normally see in nature. Chemical compounds, without intervention, generally break down into simpler, less organized forms. To GREATLY "over" simplify, no wristwatch runs by itself forever. Flour, butter, milk and eggs will not make a cake by being left together in a bowl long enough.
---Donna on 3/8/06


First ROBERT: _Write me_; have some online ref.s for your family on this! If one defines our topic here as ONLY 'changes' we actually see within species/kinds, sometimes called "microevolution," then Christians should have no problem with that; I don't! *But* that's not what's most often meant. 'Evolution' as a "means of creation" is in direct opposition to Scripture! "Death" preceeding *sin* by millions of years is calling God a liar!
---danie9374 on 2/24/06


2. If life-span has anything to do with evolution at all how do you explain the fact that Adam and Eve, and their descendents for several generation, lived for many hundreds of years yet a couple of hundred years ago 40 would have been considered old? However if, as a species, we do not get to grips with the present smoking, drinking and over-eating culture, we might once again begin to consider 40 as old. That will not be due to evolution either.
---M.P. on 2/24/06


1. nvBarbara, regarding your post of 19/01 which I've only just read, our height and life-span have nothing to do with evolution. Most of these changes are down to good food which, for many of us, is not in short supply and better health care and housing conditions. Each generation for quite some time has become taller, has bigger hands and feet and lives longer. Many fatal illnesses have been virtually eradicated. Our bodies have adapted to different conditions but that is not evolution.
---M.P. on 2/24/06


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Donna, what is it that the evolutionists want us to believe? You did not say.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/24/06


Robert: Educate your daughter that she may educate her class. Begin with the history of Darwinism, including the complete, racist title of his work "The Origin of the Species - or - The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life." It was Darwin's wotk that inspired Marx, Lenin, Neitzsche, Hitler and Stalin. Millions of human beings have been murdered in the name of ethnic cleansing - helping to "evolve" mankind to a higher state. Search out evolution-facts on the web.
---jerry6593 on 2/24/06


#2 Ralph7477- Yes, I think the laws of thermodynamics are an excellent reason (outside the Bible) to reject the theory of evolution. Not everyone may understand what "entropy" is. But when you think about it, what do you know that ever gets MORE complex over time. (Even a human fetus that develops from a few cells, after 50 or 60 yrs, starts to degrade...believe me, I know!)Yet the evolutionists ask us to believe that, contrary to all observations of the natural word.
---Donna on 2/23/06


Ralph7477-I took a course (years ago) on Charles Darwin and I remember that he did modify his theory some after writing "Origin of the Species" having some doubts about the "origin" part. But not everything he concluded was wrong. "Natural selection" (often called "survival of the fittest') is nearly indisputable and occurs WITHIN a specie. The similarities BETWEEN species (e.g monkeys and men) occurs because the same God, according to His master plan, created them all!
---Donna on 2/23/06


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Mark: Gravity isn't a theory, it's a "proven" fact! Evolution is a supposition (something supposed, i.e., an idea, opinion, implication, assumption, an "unproven" THEORY).

In your opinion, "there is no reason to consider evolution to be in conflict with the bible,"? Not so -- evolutionary "ideas" are in diametric opposition to Bible "facts".
---Leon on 2/23/06


Most people do not know what a theory is. It does not mean the same thing as how it is used in common language. Theory is a testable and well verified explaination for the facts as they are observed. The theory of gravity explains why things fall. The theory of evolution is the best scientific explaination to date as to why organisms evolve over time. So evolution can be considered to be both a theory and a fact. There is no reason to consider evolution to be in conflict with the bible.

Moderator - Good try.
---Mark on 1/22/06


Mike, that is about as true as saying that if the father loses a leg in an accident his child will be born with only one leg.

Moderator - Thanks, you gave a more clear example.
---M.P. on 1/19/06


Mat: The "theory" of Evolution isn't the same as Intelligent Design. I.D./Creation science = God made (G. 1:7, 16, 25-26, 31, etc.). Fact!

Have we really "evolved", as has been suggested in this blog, or (as a result of original sin) have we in fact "devolved"? Just in our lifetime, technology has abounded (higher 'n' higher); yet, mankind seems to rapidly be "devolving" (descending, sinking morally),lower 'n' lower.

EVOLUTION, NO! EVILUTION, YES!
---Leon on 1/19/06


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Where I come from, Mat, Right used that way is meant sarcastically.
If that is the case, than your saying that the Bible lies and that God lied, when He said that was how he chose to create the world.
Essentially, if you believe in evolution, God denying atheistic science, than don't call yourself a Christian, because your calling God a liar.
---mike6553 on 1/19/06


Mike, if that is what Evolution is, or is postulated to be, why would it not be part of God's way of making the world and everything in it?
There is a huge amount of things the Bible does not tell us about (penguins and marsupials for example) Why pick on this process possibility as something that is excluded by non-mention?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/19/06


I agree with Mod about the legs!!
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/19/06


According to the first and second laws of thermodynamics everything is in a continual state of entropy. This would contradict the theory of evolution, the big bang, etc. Besides, didn't Darwin renounce his theory before his death or is that just a myth?
---ralph7477 on 1/19/06


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moderator, That is what makes the genes stonger. If I sit around and do no exercise, my genes will not get stronger, unlike the athlete, through his body building, increased the strength of the genes that passed on to his child.

Moderator - You have the same DNA genes regardless.
---mike on 1/19/06


American Heritage Dictionary:
Evolution - A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
---mike on 1/19/06


Evolution and Adaptability are two different things.
---Elder on 1/19/06


Evolution is a real process. For example, If an athlete works to build stronger legs, the child he and his wife produces will have stronger legs. We know that God is the almighty Creator, and we did not evolve from monkeys. I think in the near future though, you will hear large amounts of profanity on the media, with words like Intelligent design and Jesus being bleeped out.

Moderator - The statement about the athlete and child is incorrect. The child will have stronger legs because his parents passed the genes on not because the parents worked out on the track.
---mike on 1/19/06


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Good blog Alan! You're correct, some Christians won't even acknowledge that we have evolved! NOT from other species, but we are on average taller than people were just a couple of hundred years ago, and our life span is longer, just to name a couple of facts.
It does not conflict with bible truths.
---NVBarbara on 1/19/06


Evolution and Intelligent Design are one of the same. We are all children of the Earth. How can anyone look at other creature's bodies and and not see what we all have in common. The Bible says we were created from the dust of the Earth, and this is exactly what Darwin said. The only argument is, HOW? Hands appearing out of nowhere, making a mud man, and breathing life in it? Right.
---Mat on 1/18/06


As Moderator says, evolution is a theory. Even if it were a fact, it would not, in my opinion (which I have to agree is very much a monority one here!) it does not conflict with what the Bible says about God creating the world and us. By maintanining that everyone who believes in evolution cannot be a Christian, one is advancing the cause of atheism.
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/18/06


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