Can Drunks Go To Heaven
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Mima ... why resurrectnold discussions? This have been done so many times before here, and recently. It will only make people cross again. If you keep bringing up the same old things, people will not contribute yet again. |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 3/6/08 |
You are asking us to state the fate of a drunkard and I can't do that because I dated one before I was saved and he's still an alcoholic to this day, but it's not the alcohol that's sending him to hell, it's his other sins such as murder (making his wife have an abortion), his awful pride, his cussing God, his mockery of the Holy Spirit, all this is sending him to hell and he doesn't care. He's been given the gospel and he said it repulses him and he doesn't believe it. |
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---Donna9759 on 1/4/07 |
Do prescription drug addicts go to heaven?
Do smokers go to heaven?
Do gamblers go to heaven?
Do gluttons go to heaven?
Do thiefs go to heaven?
Do liars go to heaven?
Do pedophiles go to heaven?
Do murderers go to heaven?
What are the degrees of sin that keep you from heaven? |
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---Char on 1/4/07 |
If an alcoholic can go to heaven, then so can a heroin addict or crack addict or any addict. The problem is, it isn't the drugs or alcohol that is keeping the person from heaven, it's the stuff the person has to do to get enough of the drugs and alcohol that makes them sin. |
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---sue on 1/4/07 |
Interesting question; in light of the Scripture, in 2PETER 7-8, "And delivered JUST Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:"
"(For that RIGHTEOUS man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his RIGHTEOUS SOUL from day to day with their unlawful deeds"---Please consider the following facts about Lot,he was definitely a drunkard, he committed incest with his daughters, he was very greedy and wanted the best land. This was JUST Lot. |
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---Mima on 1/4/07 |
Jesus Christ IS the ONLY WAY to God & Heaven. If that person has accepted Jesus Christ into their heart as Lord & Savior, then they can go to Heaven. |
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---Leslie on 1/3/07 |
If you answer anything beside "I don't know" you are not following the teaching of Jesus
teach love |
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---frank_cos on 7/27/06 |
EMG: Sorry, I didn't look further back to see that she was not a drinker before she was saved. (That kind of invaladates my last comment) All I do know is that alcohol serves as an anesthetic for emotional pain.. lots of helpful programs out there.. But SHE must want to do it for herself. If she goes for any other reason, the program will not work and will only represent "failure" to her. I say PRAY. (and perhaps, with a counselor, a loving family intervention might work) |
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---Donna on 3/10/06 |
When we are born again we become new creatures, the old passes away and all things become new according to II Cor 5:17. Although you hear testimonies from those who were instantly cured of addictions at the time they were saved, it often is a gradual, sometimes slow, process. We should likewise be slow to judge. The Lord knows us as individuals and deals with us as such.Only God can know the heart of a man. |
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---Donna on 3/10/06 |
Thanks Rebecca. I have heard how bad withdrawal is, even giving up smoking, however, I misunderstood and thought you were referring to something different when you called in deliverance. Thanks anyway. |
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---emgq on 1/26/06 |
Like when someone is doing alot of drugs and they are addicted to it, and when they quit they go through withdrawls, they kick, scream, get mad. They are going through deliverance they are trying to be delivered from whatever has ahold on them. And during this process it is ugly because you want to help them, and they are fighting you, hating you, etc. After about 3-4 days of not having drugs, they calm down a bit, but still it takes time to be delivered from something such as drugs or alochol. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/26/06 |
Rebecca, what did you mean when you said " Going through deliverence is an ugly thing?" Sorry to keep coming back on this but I don't understand much of it and I do need to know. |
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---emg on 1/25/06 |
part 2 for molly, 1cor 6 has quite a few key words, such WERE some of you, but YOU ARE sanctified, YOU ARE JUSTIFIED." JUSTIFIED PAST PRESENT and FUTURE. now, I DO NOT advocate deliberate sin as I thought my comments have made clear, a person who is living in a perpetual state of continued unrepentant drunkeness or any other sin for that matter has a serious problem. rom.8:34 Who is he that comdemns; it is Christ that died..." we still live in the flesh and we are not perfect |
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---douglas on 1/24/06 |
part 1 for molly. Is says that our iniquities have separated between you and your God(broken fellowship) and your sins have hid His face from you that He will not hear you. even David said that if I regard iniquity within my heart surely the Lord will not hear my prayer. with confession and repentance comes forgivness. Paul told the cor. to remove a person that is living in fornication from the church "deliver such a one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved" |
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---douglas on 1/24/06 |
A prayer cloth using ordinary oil will become rancid and stink something aweful in a couple of days. Oil with the spices, like of Ex.30 are therapeutic and will have a beautiful fragrance for years. God knew what He was talking about when He gave those ingredients to Moses for all the Priests and Levites and articles of the temple to be anointed with. |
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---john on 1/24/06 |
That scripture is plain as well. It says that the gift of salvation- the forgiveness of sins upon the confession of our faith in the Lord Jesus and the repentance of sin- is free. It cannot be bought with works. BUT, it is VERY evident in the scriptures (over and over and over) that if salvation has really taken place, THERE IS A CHANGE. If there is no change, there has been no salvation. And, you did NOT directly answer my comments below. How do you explain those scriptures? |
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---Molly on 1/23/06 |
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he would have had something to boast about-though not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation.
Rom 4:5 However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness. |
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---jonathon on 1/23/06 |
molly, "by grace are ye savad through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST." that is only one scripture Jesus Himself said that it is the Fathers will that He should lose nothing and whoever comes to Him He will NOT cast out. Salvation is secured, It CANNOT be lost. When we are backsliden and living with unconfessed sin He will not hear our prayers but our salvation remains secure or else Jesus is not omnipotent and able to save us. |
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---douglas on 1/23/06 |
Thanks very much Rebecca. |
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---emg on 1/23/06 |
Oil, any kind will do. I use olive oil. Take a plan shirt, maybe cut it up into squares. Many people use oil to anoint the sick, purifying the body, healing wounds, etc. The scriptue I used is Acts 19:12. God used Paul to heal people using handkerchiefs. Any cloth will do, any oil will do. It is the faith that works on the cloth and through the oil to touch people. Hoped I helped. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/23/06 |
We are told to pray for afflicted and the sick. James 5:13-16 1John 5:14,15
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: |
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---Ulrika on 1/22/06 |
Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit and answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you? |
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---Ulrika on 1/22/06 |
Acts 19:11, And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: 12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkershiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. continued |
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---Ulrika on 1/22/06 |
I think Rebecca is referring to the Scripture in Acts 19:12 where pieces of handkerchief or aprons where sent to the sick from Paul's body and they were healed and evil spirits were driven out by them. I can't see the harm in praying over these and anointing them with oil. If you used the anointing oil of Ex.30 you would have an aroma that lasted for weeks. |
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---john on 1/22/06 |
emg ... One more thing to say, is that Giving up alcohol must be horrendous, to have to withdraw from something you have become so dependent on.. The support and love of family and friends is essential...I understand that AA have separate meetings for the spouses or families of alcoholics, and many people find this very helpful, and find out how they can support and encourage the alcoholic. |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 1/22/06 |
Thanks Alan. The thing that worried me the most was that your 'higher power' could be another person at the meeting. Now that does sound unChristian to me. Maybe some meetings are better run than others. |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
Rebecca, Where in scripture does it say to annoint a prayer cloth?
John 14:13 And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you shall ask any thing in my name. I will do it. 15:16...that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 16:23-27And in that day you shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. |
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---Ulrika on 1/22/06 |
Rebecca, what do I annoint a prayer cloth with? When you say 'prayer cloth' do you mean anything in particular or just some cloth that I will pray over, or could it be something else (perhaps something the other person owns)? As you can tell I'm pretty new to this. I seem to remember a thread on here some time ago, when I was fairly new to C.N, about annointing oil but I cannot find it now. This is never mentioned in my church so it does sound rather strange but I really want to learn. |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
emg ... # 2 .
Unless the methods used are unChristian, (and I do not think they are)I cannot see anyhting wrong in associating with non-Christians at AA.
I know a gambling addict who goes to Gamblers Anonymous, and they follow similar programme as AA. He is a born-again Christian, and finds nothing wrong with GA |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 1/22/06 |
emg ... # 1 If you enjoyed making music, and at the tea break at the music school the talk turned to religion, and you declared yourself to be a Christian, and another said she was a Buddhist, and there was also a Jew and a JW there ... would you leave the Music college? You go to the Music College to get instruction in a secular skill, which can also give great spiritual experience.
You would go to AA to join others who are seeking help with a secular problem, but your own spirituality can help |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 1/22/06 |
3. and it can even be the person who suggested A.A. if you wish!!!! Has any of this been your experience? I don't wish to make any suggestions within my family that are going to confuse the issue or make matters worse, especially as I am quite confused on this issue myself at the moment. Did your family seek counselling for themselves when you were going through this? If so, with whom? |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
2. Would you have any comments on that? I've also read, on-line, several chapters from AAs Big Book which someone recommended and I've also spoken to a recovering alcoholic (a Christian) who wasn't too happy about how God is discussed at A.A. meetings. They refer to 'God as you perceive Him to be' and she said that they were told that it doesn't matter how you visualize God just as long as you accept that there is a higher powe |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
1. Paula I have looked for the Recovery Bible on Amazon and found several but am not sure if it is the one you meant. Is it The New Living Translation and, if so, is there something extra in it to make it different from any other NLT? I have also been encouraged by some to try to get my granddaughter to attend A.A. whilst others say that this is not a good idea and that the 12 steps programme is not good for a Christian |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
Thank you all so much for the advice offered here and for your prayers. I'll re-read it all later today and check the various scriptures some have quoted. It is obvious that opinions vary on this but I will take seriously everything everyone has said and prayerfully consider all suggestions. I really appreciate everyone's concern and knowing that some of you really have been there and know what you are talking about does help. |
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---emg on 1/22/06 |
John ... so my friend who suffered polio as a baby will be free of her limitation od having tiny legs and deformed arms, if only she believed? Or my thalidomide friend with one leg, no toes, and single joint & deformed fingers? |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 1/22/06 |
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, NOR DRUNKARDS, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such WERE some of you: BUT YE ARE WASHED, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. |
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---Molly on 1/21/06 |
Douglas: "Rms.8:37-39 NOTHING SHALL SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS." This scripture is very plain. Nothing will ever cause God not to love us- he loves even those who are in hell tonight, of their own choice. Being seperated from his love is totally different than being seperated from HIM. Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. |
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---Molly on 1/21/06 |
Alan. Yes, we all can be totally set free and we all can be totally forgiven and yes,it doesn't happen to everyone but that doesn't change the fact that it is available to everyone. |
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---john on 1/21/06 |
Jn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. |
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---a_servant on 1/21/06 |
John ... you say "We all can be totally set free" ... but you know it does not always happen. Your comment could fatally discourage anyone who has not had that deliverance. |
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---alan8869_of_UK on 1/21/06 |
emg- I too am a recovering addict/alcoholic saved by grace and only with Gods help I have been clean and sober for 6 years There is a bible called the recovery bible that may answer some questions you struggle with - only God knows if she will go to heaven and only prayer can ease your mind . If I was to drink today I would consider myself to be backsliden and the bible tells us all we need to know about it . I will pray for her. |
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---Paula on 1/21/06 |
EMG; if you will read Mark 5:1-13. I'm not saying your granddaughter is full of evil spirits, but she has a drinking spirit. There are many evil spirits out here roaming, seeking whom they may devour. Your granddaughter was just a babe in Christ, she may not have realized how this happened. Anniont a prayer cloth and pray over it, for your granddaughter to be delievered from this. Put it somewhere that is close to her but she doesn't know it is there. It's amazing what a prayer can do. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/21/06 |
She must first realize that she has a problem and get back to God. But in order for her to realize that she has a problem she has to hit rock bottom. Althrough the book of Ps, David talks about being delivered from different things. Being delivered means to be set free from. She is in bondage. Acts 7:35-36 talks about how Moses and the people were in bondage, they needed to be delievered. But the people compained, they wasn't looking for delievance, because they wasn't expecting to be delievered. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/21/06 |
part 2 emg keep them from speaking as a witness and to make themselves a bad example of what a Christian should be. As concerning deliverance may I suggest you send me your snail mail address through Penpals I am mima 3783. A friend of mine has written a small book on deliverance and in this book it contains a section on self deliverance. Your daughter-in-law may find this very useful if she wants to be delivered. |
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---mima on 1/21/06 |
-emg first concerning your granddaughter, Satan is not working to win the lost simply because they are already lost. Satan is working to hinder the saved( not that he can ever win them back) in order to keep them from being a good witness, keep them from speaking as a witness |
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---mima on 1/21/06 |
Many people have been completely delivered and don't even have the temptation or desire. Stating that people will always have temptation and desire is is not a proclamation of victory. Jesus came to set the captive free and open the prison doors.
We all can be totally set free. |
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---john on 1/21/06 |
As a sinner, a drunkard can be convicted of sin, confess it to God, repent (turn away from being a drunk, by God's power), and be saved. |
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---a_servant on 1/21/06 |
1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. |
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---a_servant on 1/21/06 |
When we repent and believe in Jesus as Saviour, we do not automatically become perfect. Many are able to quit sinful habits right away, and others struggle with sinful habits. There is spiritual warfare with every person. Satan tries to keep the unsaved from believing and accepting Christ as Saviour, and the saved from obeying and serving Christ. It is not for me to say who is acceptable to God. We should uphold eathother in prayer, and read scripture, this is our defense from temptation. |
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---Ulrika on 1/21/06 |
EMG. Christ died for all our sins, PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE. Salvation is His gift too us and it is Him who maintains our salvation. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and that seal no one can break. Rms.8:37-39 NOTHING SHALL SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS. His salvation is complete. If it wasn't, then it would be useless. The life we live though is a process of growing (the process of sanctification) Patience and prayer, it does get easie |
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---douglas on 1/21/06 |
I just posted something to Douglas and Rebecca D. I'm sorry it was meant for Mima and Rebecca D. although I'd appreciate input from anyone able to enlighten me on the subject of deliverance. |
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---emg on 1/21/06 |
Douglas and Rebecca D, could you tell me more about this please. No I don't know much about it. What worries me the most is that she began this lifestyle AFTER being saved. I accept that sins committed before salvation are totally forgiven. When I look at what she is doing to herself now I wonder what God thinks of her. Her lifestyle is not a good witness to others at all. |
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---emg on 1/21/06 |
EMG. She gave her life to Christ SHE IS SET FREE. Its a hard thing to grasp, but it comes down to who she sees herself as, a child of God, or a drunk. The scripture teaches that we are saints friends sons daughters kings priests etc. and we need to start believing it. Your granddaughter still needs willpower to say no, because she will always be faced with the daily temptation. Set free she is just as I am, but there is still the everyday temptation |
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---douglas on 1/21/06 |
No. Your work towards salvation must be done down here in order to get to heaven. The drunkard needs to find God now. If he lays his life at an altar and cry out to the Lord for forgiveness and deliverance, the Lord will meet him and save him. But now is the time...now is the day of salvation..while the Spirit of God is still moving in this Earth today..He can wash away sins even though they be red as scarlett. I hope whoever you are refering to will turn his life over to Christ before it is too late. |
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---Kacee on 1/20/06 |
EMG; she needs deliverence from this, but she needs to want to. God can't help her if she isn't willing to let him. Going through deliverence is an ugly thing. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/20/06 |
emg; if granddaughter overcomes drinking my willpower her recovery will never be complete. If my deliverance then she can truly be free. If your granddaughter has accepted Jesus Christ, based on your words she has, then she is forgiven for drunkenness? Yes even drunkenness. John said," behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world" John 1:29 . Surely your granddaughter's sin of drinking is included somewhere in that statement. Do you know anything about deliverance? |
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---mima on 1/20/06 |
Douglas, my granddaughter is not a recovering alcoholic, she is an active alcoholic and became one after being saved. I simply do not know what to think on this subject at the moment. I truly want to see her set free from this but at the moment there is no sign of that happening. |
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---emg on 1/20/06 |
I hope my answer in regards to the question was not misunderstood. Wording is very important. I am also recovered and set free from addiction, but the question implied a perpetual state of continued drunkeness. "If any man be in Crist he is a new creature, behold all old thing are passed away, all thing are made new." If I am set free why continue in the old lifestyle? Please read Rm 6. |
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---douglas on 1/20/06 |
I have been told here that there is a difference between a drunkard and an alcoholic because the latter is an illness. My granddaughter is an alcoholic but is also a born again Christian. I have only recently come to accept that this is an illness. Will God send her to hell because she is ill or does she need more will-power which is what some others tell me? What would your answer be mima? |
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---emg on 1/20/06 |
Of course he can. If he repents and be comes red hot for Christ he will surely go to heaven. Did Christ not eat with the sinners? Does a healthy person goto the doctors? No. Christ the healer went out looking for the ill to save them from sin and lead them into heaven. I for one am a living example. |
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---Darrell on 1/20/06 |
not according to the word. 1corinthians says that drunkards shall not inheret the kingdom of God. true repentance is a 180 about face and following after the Lord. We are prone to falls but that is not an excuse to diliberately sin |
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---douglas on 1/20/06 |
If the person never accepts Christs then no he/she won't be in heaven. If this person accepts Christ and is born again, he will no longer be drinking, for God changes everything about a person, in time. |
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---Rebecca_D on 1/19/06 |
Some people are forgiven and some are not. I'm glad it's not my business to judge. I'm sure there will be drunks that are forgiven and preachers who are not. |
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---john on 1/19/06 |
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