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Is This Child Saved Or Lost

A child is born, and enjoys a period of innocence (I do not know at what age this innocence is lost). After this period of innocence, what is the child's position before the Lord? Is the child saved or is the child lost?

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 ---mima on 1/24/06
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Eloy: "There are two races in this world, not one, they are the holy and the unholy"...
Holiness is not a race. It is a work of the cross and it is something we are to work out in our lives by way of the Holy Spirit.
No wonder you speak so much error. You don't even think you're in the same race as sinners!
How is RR Donnelly by the way? Still winning them in droves? I seriously recommend you seek counseling. And I say that without an ounce of sarcasm.
---j._nonymous on 1/3/08


Only God knows when, but at some point the child becomes responsible for his/her own choices/actions. I can tell you it is long, long before they are 12 or 13! No doubt many here could testify of accepting Christ at a very young age. I am one. If I had resisted the convicting power of the Holy Spirit at that point and had died, I would have been lost.
---Bruce5656 on 1/3/08


.ts, you speak falsely. There are two races in this world, not one; they are the holy and the unholy, and these are not the same, for the holy have no sin, but only the unholy. "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." I Corinthians 7:14.
---Eloy on 4/1/07


.ts, you speak falsely. There are two races in this world, not one; they are the holy and the unholy, and these are not the same, for the holy have no sin, but only the unholy. "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." I Corinthians 7:14.
---Eloy on 4/1/07


All are born of Sinful genes and have a predisposition to "Selfishness" which is what Sin truly is. Putting oneself first rather than the other guy is the motivator of sin.

Children can be taught to overcome this tendancy and can be prayed for and taught to pray for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to overcome this. Bad habits cultivated in childhood will be more difficult to "overcome" as we get older. By the way the name "Israel" means "Overcomer."
---TS on 4/1/07




Not all children are born innocent, helpless they are until they mature, but not all innocent. If you take a bad father and a bad mother, and they merge producing offspring, then the offspring from 2 bad parents will be a bad child. Now after the child grows and is able to choose which path in life to follow, Christ or sin, and according to the choice the child makes determines whether the child will be raised a child of God or else a child of Satan.
---Eloy on 3/31/07


no it is not. b/c they don't know any better. some people get saved early while other don't.
---lee5749 on 3/31/07


At the age of accountability the child is considered spiritually dead or separated from God.
---Rickey on 3/27/07


3. Now there is a passage that states that we are condemned already, and if we take the passage as legalistic in light of the whole word of God we would include babies, but Scripture is not clear on that subject at all. The nature to do wrong is there but we are condemned by disobedience of God's Word and rejection of Him. Babies don't sin. This is just my opinion since Scripture is not clear on that point. many babies die in the stories but it does not say they went to hell too.
---Lupe2618 on 2/4/06


2. didn't go to heaven but only that they were included in the distruction of thier nation. God's providence was in effect during those times in order for the continued existence of Israel, that through Israel God was going to fulfill His redemption through Christ. If for some reason God allowed the other nations to continue His purpose would not be complete. But to assume that God would send babies to hell without commiting sin is just not explain anywhere in Scripture.
---Lupe2618 on 2/4/06




I have to go with Elders statements and I will agree that babies are born with a sin nature but they have not sinned yet. Now Eloy gave the scriptures of 2 kings 2:23,24, this were not babies, but youths that already were doing evil. These youths were sarcastically taunting and insulting the Lord's prophet by telling him to repeat Elijah's translation. Now we know that God wiped out nations for their sins, women and children were included. But no where does Scripture explain that this babies
---Lupe2618 on 2/4/06


We are ALL born lost and in sin....but NOT hopelessly. That is contrary to the word of God. It says "WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH, SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE!" To say that some are doomed to spend eternity in hell before they are even born makes the whole truth of the gospel a lie.
---anonymous on 2/1/06


This is a matter for the Lord. It is our business to teach the child about God's love and saving grace. I do believe that we can do that even before the child is born. But we will not know what the Lord knows.
---scott on 1/31/06


Elder .... you know there are those others here who would say that a baby is sinful just because it is born and descended from Adam & Eve. Only if the parents are both "saved" does a baby have a chance if it dies. I say, would a just God condemn a baby who has never thought anyhting, but am told God's justice is not man's justice. God is not fair in the way we expect Him to be. Can that be true? That we have a warped sense of fairness and justice?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/31/06


Cliff I just knew you would make my point I just had to wait for you to use the Adam example.
How was Adam created? Does innocent ring a bell? Adam was created innocent and had no problem until he chose sin.
A baby born with a sin nature is innocent until he recognizes the fact that he has gone against God's law. That may be at the age of 12 or 24 depending on the mental capacity of the person.
I don't believe that age is 12 it could be earlier or later.
What sin would a baby be punished for?
---Elder on 1/31/06


Elder; Studying God's rightiousness,justice and mercy still doesn't give you a scripture that says one is innocent untill they ,reach the age of accountability. So you have to try and "manufacture" one to support your theology! Do you realize that you're saying everyone has the same opportunity that Adam had? No no no Adam lost that for all of us! Otherwise the garden of Eden account is redundant!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/06


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Cliff as you always do to make your point you want someone to do your study for you.
You must study the context of the Righteousness, Justice, Mercy and a host of other things about God to come to the conclusion that babies don't go to Hell.
You ask for one verse yet you know it takes more. I cannot provide one verse that proves 1st Cliff exists. So what does that mean?
Does it mean God is unjust or just confused?
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 1/30/06


Cond #2-->
Plus, there is nothing wrong with dying. The problem is in the judgement that comes.
To be correct Ecc 3:19 does not tell of the condition of the dead, only that man and beast die alike.
Solomon was just expressing some of his observations.
Then on to John;
Cond #3--->
---Elder on 1/30/06


Cond #3--->
He was in the Spirit on the Lords day, he heard and was told to write what he SAW, Rev 1:9.
1:1 says he received the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
The word vision is only used one time in this book, Rev 9:17, and then it means the act of seeing.
But I do notice that in v20-21 hearts so hardened that that even the plagues did not drive them to Christ. They had an irrevocably wicked minds and ways.
It is like they wouldn't listen to Gospel Truth in context.
---Elder on 1/30/06


Cliff & Eloy: Though he was born a sinner by nature did David & Bathsheba's baby commit any known act of sin, you're aware of, before he died? (2 Sam. 12:18_23) GOD IS JUST (equitable, righteous)!!!

You're not going to believe this; but, His ways are higher & even beyond your comprehension Cliff. (Is. 55:9) Imagine that!?

So true Molly.

By the way Eloy, we're all born sinners, not damned (hopelessly lost). Thank God for His redemptive grace thru Jesus Christ!
---Leon on 1/30/06


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Ann, that is II Kings 2:23,24.
---Eloy on 1/29/06


Ann; I realize that this subject is a little like trying to walk on eggs. Fact is there's NO scriptural basis for believing that a person must reach "the age of accountability" You words are touching (we lost our 2nd child at birth) but not scriptural! You said "their punishment is deserved" What rational decision would you make with a gun at your head? You're right Leon,God IS just!
---1st_cliff on 1/29/06


Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher, than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We serve a loving God who sent His one and only Son to die for our sins and Willingly Christ laid down His life. Only God knows at what age. As far as the childs position THAT IS FOR GOD TO DECIDE, NOT for everyone else to FOOLISHLY speculate.
---douglas on 1/29/06


Ann, all sin is damned whether it is born in a child or born in an adult. period.
---Eloy on 1/29/06


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Ann, the reason for your anger is because you have believed the lie that all children are innocent, when in fact many are the children of the devil. Recall how God himself destroyed all people, all men, all children, and all women off the face of the earth in Noah's day? Remember Elisha the prophet of God, and the 42 children? Please read II KIngs 23,24.
---Eloy on 1/29/06


Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

It is not possible to be "innocent" when born of sinful parents. Babies not only inherit the physical, but also the spiritual from their parents.

All babies are condemned at conception & must be saved.

God even loves & hates babies before they are born - Rom 9:11-13.
---a_servant on 1/28/06


Those who suffer eternally are those who were given the choice to accept Christ or reject Him. They rejected Him. Their punishment is deserved. The little 18 month-old baby whose parents I know, who died suddenly one nite, will NOT be condemned. He was not capable of understanding anything but the love of his family and those who cared about him. He did not make any choice- he did not have the knowledge or understanding. God provides for those who cannot understand. They are given eternal life with Him.
---Ann5758 on 1/28/06


True, God isn't sentimental Cliff. God is just!

Right on Ann!
---Leon on 1/28/06


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What really puzzles me is those same people that don't believe that children suffer the same fate as adults have no trouble believing that God BURNS people ALIVE forever,never letting them die,but scream in pain eternally....for the simple crime of "disbelief"......is this really 2006?
---1st_cliff on 1/28/06


Elder; You must think Eccl. is all smoke and mirrors since it tells the condition of the dead.3.19. As far as the "souls" in Rev. do you not know this was a "vision" given to John. A vision is like a dream only you're awake. The "souls" he saw were people. we are ALL souls Gen.2.7. Show me the "scripture" that says "children are INNOCENT 'till they reach a certain age".Not by supposition or assumption!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/06


God is Merciful, not wanting any should perish. Until the age of accountablity, when right or wrong can be discerned, I believe if the child dies they will go to Heaven. We are born with a sin nature, the capability of sinning, but G-d makes us aware in due process of time that what we are doing is wrong. And it is different in all children, according to maturation process. Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve, when you can choose then you are accountable.
---anon on 1/28/06


Amen, Ann! Good preaching!
---DoryLory on 1/28/06


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Tell me, all you who say babies can go to hell. What kind of a God would one minute say "Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not, for OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN", and the next send one of those little children to eternal damnation for no reason of its own? I'm very angry, and I think justifiably so, that anyone would DARE to think that God Almighty, who even sees the little sparrow fall, provides for the birds and dresses the flowers would condemn a child.
---Ann5758 on 1/28/06


God looks at a baby, child or mentally challenged adult no differently. For one to be sent to Hell, one needs to be able to make a conscience choice on whether to trust and accept Christ or reject him. The age of when a person loses his or her innocent depends to each person ability for conscience thought.
---Jerry on 1/28/06


Ann; It's called "responability" God doesn't play the "chance" game! The fault lies with Adam and satan, God is not sentimental!
---1st_cliff on 1/28/06


David said I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my mother concieve me. 1 Corinthians 7:14 bears witness to this. The Lord spoke to Samuel as a child and a child the Lord put on his lap. The Lord already knows who will love him and who won't. The word says that the Lamb's book of life was written BEFORE the foundation of the world. The covenant came to Abraham in uncircumsision. {unclean}We all were born lost.
---Katherine on 1/28/06


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Just like Cliff to issue smoke and mirrors. Did you miss the rest of my comment Cliff?
You said Eloy is right huh?
So do you also think that some are not born sinners? Are you one of those or were you born a sinner?
I ask you again how did those Souls get under the Alter in the Revelation and where were their bodies?
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 1/27/06


Cond #2-->
You are speculating that David was speaking of the grave. You don't know how long the baby was dead. We see David being notified and then making his statement. His baby might have still been in the bed. Do you think David was saying that he could go to bed also?
There is nothing said about the grave here.
Do you think the Kings baby would have died and been buried and then the King notified? I don't think so. David was told when the child died and the empty body was still there.
---Elder on 1/27/06


Ann, then you have chosen to have nothing to do with the only living God. For by the first man and woman came the curse upon all, and their offspring were made sinners. "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, 'even over them that had not sinned' after the likeness of Adam's sin, who is the figure of him that was to come." Romans 5:14.
---Eloy on 1/27/06


I'm not forcing anyone's words, Eloy. I want nothing to do with a God who will condemn a baby to hell through no fault of its own, and if you think He will, you had best do some more studying.
---Ann5758 on 1/27/06


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Ann, Read the context (the verses before and after this versed) and you should see the correct meaning. I know "innocent babies or babies are born innocent" is a very popular secular concept, but nonetheless it is very unbiblical. I Corinthians 7:14 is accurate to accept just as Paul wrote it without forcing his words.
---Eloy on 1/27/06


Eloy, read that verse again. What that means is NOT that the children are born damned. Children do not go to hell because their parents are not saved. What that means is, if both parents are unsaved, then there is less of a chance when the child is OLDER that it will become saved, but if there is at least one saved parent, then that child has a greater chance of salvation, because it will be told of Christ by that parent.
---Ann5758 on 1/27/06


Elder; that's a new one on me! Maybe where you live they put the dead in the sink, but in David's day they burried the dead! Go down to the local mortuary and see if they put the "whole" person in the casket. What part doesn't go underground? Maybe you're confusing it with the Egyptian mythology that taught something escapes the body at death? The bible teaches that the dead wait for resurrection! Nothing leaves the body at death exept the "breath" (Gr. pneuma) translated spirit!
---1st_cliff on 1/27/06


Molly,just read what Eloy said,he's got it right on! You're like the "Christians" in my neighborhood, go to church and let the Pastor do the thinkin' he's got all the schoolin' you need! Do you know what Jesus said about the blind leading the blind? How does your God "opperate" differently than mine?
---1st_cliff on 1/27/06


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Many children are born damned, and only a few are born sanctified. The state of the offspring depends upon the state of the parents. If both parents are unholy, then the offspring is unholy; but if one parent is holy, then the child is holy. Please read I Corinthians 7:14.
---Eloy on 1/27/06


SOME people have educated themselves right into total ignorance. WHO CARES about the greek, and the Hebrew, and the translation, and the this and the that and the something else.....Do you allow the Holy Spirit one inch of room in revealing God's word to you, or do you rely on YOUR talent for using big words and acting like you have God all figured out?! You and I can not be serving the same God, because the God I know doesn't operate the way you are saying he does
---Molly on 1/26/06


Cliff you are doing what you accuse Mima of.
You like to place the total person in the Grave.
David never said his baby was in the grave. He could have been in the kitchen sink.
But you don't want to see that.
David was not speaking of a body. There are a whole lot of dead bodies laying around and the "people" are gone.
There are a whole lot of dead people still in their bodies also.
You think the Grave ends it all. Boy, are you in for a shock!
---Elder on 1/26/06


Well Molly; So much for your bible study! Hell is translated from the hebrew "sheol" which is rendered 31 times as "grave" 31 times as "hell" once as "pit" once as Death" Sheol is the common grave of mankind! equivilent in Greek is hades!
---1st_cliff on 1/26/06


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1st Cliff, the ONLY reason a person goes to hell is that they were presented with the choice of eternal life or eternal seperation from God in a place of torment, and they CHOOSE to reject God's gift of eternal life through accepting the one and only way, Jesus Christ. There is NO WAY a child, much less a baby, can understand or make that decision. Your view that there are babies in hell is absolutely ludicrous!
---Molly on 1/26/06


Mima; The child could not come to David because he was dead,but he could go where the child was sheol(grave) translated hell! Antway you're answering the question by supposition not by scripture!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/06


To 1st cliff; in reading about David and Bathsheba's first child you'll discover that the child went to heaven, thereby proving a period of innocents for the child since the child could not possibly have been saved at that age. We know the child went to haven because David said he (the child) cannot come to me but I will go to him. So where do David go hell are heaven?
---mima on 1/24/06


Mima; You said a child enjoys a period of "innocence" What scripture supports that statement?
---1st_cliff on 1/24/06


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