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Can Salvation Be Refused

After reading John 6:37 do you believe it is possible for Jesus to refuse salvation to anyone who comes to him (ask)?

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 ---mima on 1/25/06
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Jack B, if man is fallen, what kind of death is he in? The Bible cleary says that sin brought death yet everyone is walking and talking and living the life that pleases them. After reading Romans 5:12 and the rest of the context read verse 21,
"so that as sin reigned in death even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ"
Everyone who is in the flesh is dead in traspasses and sins, Grace on the other hand reigns through righteousness to what? Eternal life, through Jesus Christ.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


Sir you did say back in Sept/Oct of 2009 (hopefully a moderator can pull this back up) that its not possible for God to know things which by their very nature are impossible to know.

It is no lie sir. Im searching my old computer now,because I know I copied and pasted it there because I was blown away by your comment.
---JackB on 5/18/10


By the way,
Quickening means to "make alive, or make come alive after being dead".

Tell me, HOW can the Holy Spirit do this if it is NOT indwelled in you?

What happened to mankind after they received the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil?
We were held accountable- that equals sin!
If we had not eaten it, would we know what sin is? NO.
So, do we know Good from Evil? Yes, we were given the knowledge of it as soon as man ate of it.
I agree with JackB. here is one here who is blind to the full truth because of man's doctrine.
---miche3754 on 5/18/10


Miche, you said,
"For the life of me I can't understand WHY you think the Spirit quickens(INDWELLS) a "dead" person FIRST, without believing Christ FIRST and repenting of their sin."
I do not know if you can read correctly are not but I never said what you said. I did not say that when the Spirit quickens a dead person He endwells them. The believers in Acts were given the Holy Spirit after they believed. They believe because God gave them faith when He brought them to life. He not only gave them faith, but granted them rependance when the Spirit convicted them of sin, they finally saw sin in their lives. And what did they do? Confess Christ and what did God do? endwelled them or sealed them.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


We are we at enmity with God before we come to Christ why? Because we KNOW we have broken Gods law and deserve death. Even people without the law know they have disobeyed it (Romans 2:14)

The enmity is our empending doom because of our disobedience of the Law.
How is that enmity resolved? In Christs flesh when He died for us and took that doom upon himself. He made peace. (Eph 2:15)

When the Holy Spirit works on our heart as a man is telling us about Jesus, we have 2 choices.

1. Stick to our own righteousness... thinking doing good will make up for the bad.

2. Accept Gods free gift.

God resists the proud and shows grace to the humble.
---JackB on 5/18/10




Jack B, I'm willing to answer but don't assume I said something I didn't say. I did not say,
"that God does not have the ability/power to see man's future and He simply changes the present to fit the things which He has said will happen in the future"
I even gave you some of God's attributes. God is Omniscient. He knows everything, past, present and future. It's His plan. He already knows the ending. He is outside of time and can see the whole plan. He doesn't go around changing His plan as man changes his mind. " Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising" "Thou understands my thoughts." Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways" Ps. 139:2-4.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


Mark, there are certain things that a man will never believe no matter how many times he reads the scripture if the core of his beliefs is wrong. He will search for scripture that seems to fit what HIS understanding is instead of just believing what he is reading.

Go find 2 scriptures that prove...

1. That after man sinned, God took away his ability to decide and his knowledge of good and evil.

2. That Gods powers are limited to our understanding or space and time. He cannot see that future.

Those 2 core beliefs will never allow you to see foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and sanctification in ANY other way than what youve been taught by Calvanism.
---JackB on 5/18/10


Markv,
where is YOUR scriptural support for your view? You have none. Only cherry picking verses NO full context or understanding.
You are a babe in Christ who only understands milk.
For the life of me I can't understand WHY you think the Spirit quickens(INDWELLS) a "dead" person FIRST, without believing Christ FIRST and repenting of their sin.

You sir, DO NOT understand HOW salvation works.

You also do not understand that man is not totally depraved.

You don't understand that the Holy Spirit of God speaks to ALL mankind and DRAWS all mankind but mankind just refuses to listen.
The Bible is VERY CLEAR on these NEEDED steps to salvation.
Which for some reason(CALVIN) YOU JUST DON'T WANT UNDERSTAND.
---miche3754 on 5/18/10


Running out of room here quick.

Emma, Mark and I both believe the Father sends people to Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit speaking to their heart, that salvation is of God and that its by grace thru faith and that any changes that occur in us are a result of the working of the Holy Spirit and not our own power.

We have 2 major differences however. Mark believes..

- once enlightened to the truth of Christ by the Holy Spirit working on his heart, a man cannot reject it (irresistable grace)

- that God does not have the ability/power to see man's future and He simply changes the present to fit the things which He has said will happen in the future
---JackB on 5/18/10


If you should table before those who are attending(being alive) and they do not eat(accept what has been offered) you cannot be said to have refused to feed them.
And so it is with the salvation offered by God!!!













9











9
---mima on 5/18/10




Jack B, you said it,

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

You wrote it down, now believe it. No one who is lost can come to Christ, why? Because he is at enmity against God. He is in the flesh. In order to come to Christ that enmity has to go away. Man on his own power cannot remove that enmity that God put between man and Himself through the fall. Only He can remove that enmity. Now, if you are brought to life by the Spirit, you again have spiritual life. Man cannot bring himself to life. He remains blind, cannot hear, or understand spiritual matters, he is sparated from God. After been brought to life, he is no longer in the flesh.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


Jack B 2: After the passage you quote you gave all the others. Now read all the others again, you have to remember he is talking to those who are believers already, and now all he says makes sense because they are believers already.

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell IN you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."
The passage are very true and you have to believe them in order to understand.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


1 Corinthians 15:54-58
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Jesus Death and resurrection ONLY do we have eternal life. It's HIS RISEN LIFE in us. Only Jesus can being Eternal life...No longer I but Christ in me.

It would appear one is putting the Holy Spirit above the finished work of Christ. The Holy Spirit did not die and rise again...Christ did!
---kathr4453 on 5/18/10


Miche, for the life of me I do not understand why by now you do not understand what happened at the fall. And why we need to be born again. Of the Spirit. Dead people do not bring themselves to life. They cannot hear, speak or, understand spiritual matters. People are born spiritually dead, separated from God, in the flesh they cannot please God. If they could come to Christ on their own in that condition, then they would have something that please God, and they could boast about having it. If you read Eph. 2 completely you will see what I am talking about. '" And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sin" That is who we were, before been made alive, walking according to the course of this world, etc.
---MarkV. on 5/18/10


But brother, the Spirit does not bring you to life until AFTER it indwells you.

---miche3754 on 5/18/10

Absolutely Miche, it's the Spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST IN YOU that brings life out of death. His Life in you is what Salvation/ETERNAL LIFE is....Christ in you, the Hope of Glory!

The Holy Spirit empowering the WORD of God brings LIGHT,

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


The Light of His Word is not the New Birth, however, when we believe in the Truth, and RECEIVE Jesus Christ, Then we become a Son, not before!
---kathr4453 on 5/18/10


JackB,

I will be honest. I cannot keep up with all the posts and I have generally agreed with the posts that I have seen from you.

Many people then and now claim being 'in the Spirit', but by their fruits, is it really true?

I think Paul was doubting peoples claim of "in the Spirit" and saying "if you truly are in the Spirit, then..." not what you seem to be describing. I cannot even describe it.

Are you saying that the Spirit can dwell within us before the Spirit of Christ?
---aka_joseph on 5/18/10


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"Jesus only refused salvation to those who refused to believe in him."
---Myrna on 5/18/10


JackB: While your comments about the verses you quote are good, I find it hard to see how exactly the conflict with what MarkV actually says

Could you explain?
---Emma on 5/18/10


Miche, your correct, the Spirit does not endwell the believer until after he believes. Endwelling and sealing with the Spirit is not rebirth. Rebirth is when the Spirit bring you life to you.-markv

But brother, the Spirit does not bring you to life until AFTER it indwells you.

If this is a lie, please show me scripture proving it.
All the scripture I have read tells me we are dead until we believe, repent and THEN the Spirit indwells us, brings us to life and teaches all things.
Jack B is right. You need to start reading scripture in it's context. NOT trying to make it fit by using 1 or 2 verses.
---miche3754 on 5/18/10


Im sorry MarkV, but how exactly are we reborn of the Spirit without Him actually residing IN us? (scripture please)

And sometimes when you post scripture I feel myself sayin.....OOOOH mark keep reading a few more verses!!!

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell IN you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
---JackB on 5/17/10


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And for a God that cant see the future He sure does show it to man a whole lot in visions...
---JackB on 5/17/10


Miche, Kathr, JackB,
You all made some fine expositions!
Cocoa Pebbles could keep talking until she turns Vanilla Pebbles and still could not touch any dots in your 'i's'.
---Nana on 5/17/10


Miche, your correct, the Spirit does not endwell the believer until after he believes. Endwelling and sealing with the Spirit is not rebirth. Rebirth is when the Spirit bring you life to you. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus "death spread to all men," because all sinned" Romans 5:12.
The passage refers to spiritual death, spiritual separation from God. The descendants of Adam are born physically alive, they can walk, talk and make decisions, but they are dead to anything spiritual of God. They are at emnity against God. And before they can come to Christ, that emnity has to be broken by God when He makes you alive again to God, born of the Spirit.
---MarkV. on 5/17/10


Before its brought up...YES it is STILL Gods grace that saves us.

If you shot me in an attempt to kill me but merely put me in a coma for 10 years, and I run into you on the street later in life and hold out my hand with a gift in it for you and you humbly take it (knowing full well you shot me and tried to kill me)....

Do you deserve the present any MORE simply because you accepted it? Absolutely NOT

Is it no longer consider my grace that offered you the present? NO - because you still dont deserve it.

Mercy is me not shooting you back :P
---JackB on 5/17/10


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What should man's proper response to this verse be(God speaking through Ezekiel)?

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:7)

Man: "Are you joking!? You won't let me turn! Remember that predestination thing!?"

The hardest thing about bad indoctrination is convincing deceived people that they dont have to fear questioning what their church has taught them. God TELLS us to. A denomination means NOTHING. How many cults been started from people listening to the pastor instead of the Holy Spirit?
---JackB on 5/17/10


"God is Omiscient and know everything that will happen because He ordained everything that will happen."
-- MarkV

This is why you will never believe any form of predestination other than what John Calvin taught.

Youre insulting God by limiting His existance and foreknowledge to that of a mere man. Just because you dont understand it, doesnt mean that it isnt so.

The Almighty is not constrained to our understanding of space and time. The Bible is very clear on this.

(2 Peter 3:8 , Psalms 90:4) Gods time
(1 Kings 8:27 and 2 Chron 6:18) Gods space

Peter is pleading with us to "be not ignorant on this"! God is eternal. He is the beginning and the end, the Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:8)
---JackB on 5/17/10


Gen3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

We still have this in us now. Total depravity is a lie. We still know what is right and wrong. We CHOOSE not to obey what is right.

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"?
---JackB on 5/17/10


Yes Salvation can be refused, just as those who refused to listen to Moses!
---kathr4453 on 5/17/10

The question is not indended to apply to people who wish to live in open rebellion. It applies to those who wish to repent.

Scripture is clear in telling us that "whosoever will may come..." as well as "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish...".
---obewan on 5/17/10


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Yes Salvation can be refused, just as those who refused to listen to Moses!

Hebrews 12:24-26
24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
---kathr4453 on 5/17/10


No one receives the Holy Spirit until they believe. THAT is God's order!
Acts 19:1-3
'And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any (about the) Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism'

This says they believed but had not yet received the Holy Spirit. It says they believed but didn't even have the HS yet!
Who are you going to believe, Calvin or God?
I believe God.
---miche3754 on 5/17/10


God is Omiscient and know everything that will happen because He ordained everything that will happen.
God is Omnipresent in that He is everywhere at any one time.
God is Omnipotent in that no one can stay His hand. What He desires to do He will do for His own glory.
God is immutable in that He Himself never changes, He remains the same yesterday, today and forever.
If faith were a natural product of the human heart, the exercise of a principle common to human nature, it would never have been written, "All men have not faith" ( 2 Thess. 3:2).
Dead man cannot believe anything, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God" Rom. 8:8.
---MarkV. on 5/17/10


Good reply, Trav.
I think it's not that unusual for Christians to have doubts. Many don't admit it. For me, doubts have caused me to study more of the Word and inquire of the Lord more deeply. A number of my questions have been settled permanently because of it.
---Donna66 on 5/15/10

It shows in your post. You are mature/seasoned in your scripture.
My questions as well that I had to put to rest. Was a lukewarm 1/2 believer. I needed what churches/denoms don't offer. Meat, from the witnesses.

Don't always post to the individual here. Post for those who are seeking answers from scripture like I was.
Hard part is scripture doesn't always say what milk babies need it too. They are going to change GOD. Uh huh.
---Trav on 5/17/10


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Jack B, Sir, you have a right to interpret the passages as you wish, no question about that. You must have a different Bible, because my Bible nowhere states that unbelievers are sanctified unto God.
Second, just because people are inlightened and know about the Holy Spirit and Christ does not mean they are save. No where in Hebrews 6:4 does it say this people were saved. You are implying they are and that is ok also. Like I said you can put your own meaning if you want. Seems like everyone does that already.
Third, Yes, it is God who has ordained all that will come to pass. It will end as He has so ordained for He has seen the end already, "God worketh all things after the counsel of His will"
---MarkV. on 5/17/10


jackb, you are a blessing from the Blessing.
---aka_joseph on 5/17/10


Ok wonderful. My first question would be...

Do you believe God knows future events before they happen or do you believe He simply manipulates the future to the outcome He desires?
---JackB on 5/16/10


Hebrews 10:28,29
He (man) that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he(man) be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he(man) was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is talking about people who accept Christ sacrifice for their sins, are sanctified by his blood, and THEN go back to sacrificing animals according to Moses' law. They have trodden the Son of God underfoot. They have done despite the Spirit of grace.
---JackB on 5/16/10


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Hebrews 10:28,29
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

(Obviously this verse is talking about MEN in the old days that rejected the law of Moses and the harsh punishment they took for doing so)

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Sir, Jesus Christ is NOT sanctified (made holy) by his own blood. Where did you get that from? This is speaking of a MAN that is sanctified by Christs blood.
---JackB on 5/17/10


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Did the Bible just say that people who have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost can fall away? And that they cant renew themselves to repentance again afterwards?
---JackB on 5/17/10


Hello Jack B, welcome to the topic of the Holy Spirit. I'm a Reformer. You might have been trying to speak to me, but was waiting for me to answer. Here I am.
And I do believe you have to be born of the Spirit before you can believe by faith. I also believe that when you commit your life to Christ, you will receive the Spirit of Truth to endwell you and seal you to the day of the Lord. Go ahead and ask the questions that you say no one answers. I'm willing to listen to you. I don't know everything but will give it my best.
We can take one passage in context at a time if you want. I'm a friendly person.
---MarkV. on 5/16/10


We do not choose Jesus.... Not if you are truly being chosen. Jesus does the choosing. He always has and He always will be the one that chooses His people. We do not choose Jesus. God is most powerful. Over Satan, yes, over man, yes. After my conversion, I had two wows [1] Wow there is a hell and number [2] Wow there is a God. The cross convinced me, His Blood.++
---catherine on 5/16/10


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Gal. 4:5, "Those under the Law" All born after Adam are guilty sinners who are under the law's demands and its curses (3:10,13) and in need of a Savior (3:23)"But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed" God would reveal this faith.
"Adoption as sons" is the act of bringing someone who is the offspring of another into one's own family. Since unregenerate people are by nature children of the devil (3:26) the only way they can become God's children is by spiritual adoption (Rom. 8:15,23, Eph. 1:5). Assurance of salvation is a gracious work of the Holy Spirit and does not come from any human source.
---MarkV. on 5/16/10


Jack B, you have misinterpreted Hebrews 10:26-29. First of all the biggest mistake here is that you are assuming this people are saved. Verse 28 states "Anyone who rejected Moses Law dies without mercy"
Believers do not reject the law of Moses. Those people rejected the law, no mercy for them.
The second mistake is that the portion that say's in verse 29 "Which he was sanctified" is not speaking of the persons but of "Jesus" This refers to Christ, in that He was set apart unto God (John 17:19). It cannot refer to the apostate, because only true believers are sanctified. Insulting the Spirit of Grace refers to, rejecting Christ insults the Spirit who worked through Him (Matt. 12:31,32).
---MarkV. on 5/16/10


Jack B, 2: by knowing about the law, knowing about Christ they were in fact more guilty (or worse) then those who never heard of Christ. There punishment will be worse. Those passages are not saying anyone was saved and lost salvation. Many reject the external call of God, but when the Spirit brings you to life and gives you faith, there is no chance of rejecting Christ because you will have faith. And no one lost has faith to believe. God has to make them alive to christ, by changing their hearts first." The same holds true in Romans chapter one. God has revealed Himself through creation, and since man know there is a God but do not honor Him as God, only condemns them. So knowing and rejecting Him is a worse punishment.
---MarkV. on 5/16/10


Salvation is for everyone who comes to Christ in faith, that is why we must proclaim the truth to all.
---duane on 5/16/10


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We must remember, though, the first part of John 6:37 'All that the Father gives me will come to me'

So while it appears that Jesus'will not, only the people who the Father has given to Jesus WILL come to ask

Unless, of course, we are discussing predestination/free will, where (I feel from the Bible I must believe in predestination) I still am a bit confused about how I feel
---peter3594 on 5/16/10


kathr4453 #2 //Paul spent 14 years on the side of a mountain being taught, not by man, but by revelation of Jesus Christ, then Paul was carried up to Paradise, shown things he said was unlawful to utter.//

Kathr is referring to 2Co 12:2-4 and I can understand why should did not include the v. number.

3. In the next verse, Paul writes, "And I know that this man was caught up into paradise..."

4. in the 4th verse, "and he [not Paul] heard things that cannot be told..."

5. In the first verse of the chapter, Paul talks of visions and revelation. He was convicted on the road to Damascus (not abducted) and began proclaiming Jesus, the Son of God, 1 day after the three of being blinded.
---aka_joseph on 5/16/10


Donna, there is indeed a Calvanist, whose name I shall not mention, that has taught on these blogs that total depravity means a man cannot have faith in Jesus Christ until he is "born of the Spirit".

I have put up a few verse to refute that belief but they always end up ignored.

Such as how a man receives the Spirit of Christ after he has been adopted as a son of God. GAL 4:6

Theres even a specific verse that tells when we receive the Holy Ghost. It is after we have heard the gospel and trusted in Christ.
EPH 1:13

That calvanist will expose himself shortly after reading this Im sure.
---JackB on 5/15/10


Christ is in Jerusalem talking to the Jews

Thru verse 8 is exactly how the Jews responsed to faith. They were deemed "not worthy".

Then God tells his servants "go into the highways (greeks) and as many as you can find, bid to the marriage"

The "Many" that are called are the "as many as you can find".

Only those that put on the proper garment (FAITH) are the chosen.

God is not a trickster sir. He will not offer a man something that He has NO intention of giving. Such a twisted view of God is unheathly for a man's soul.

Dont you find it strange this parable doesnt read "Go gather all those who have no choice but to come to the marriage." ?
---JackB on 5/15/10


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I would love to see scripture that states that Gods calling to Jesus Christ is "irresistable".

I have never ever read that in my Bible.

You find verses where men cannot resist the Holy Spirit and Ill find verses that prove men CAN indeed resist the sovereign will of God.

Heres one patch for ya. Hebrews 10:26-29.

This tells you that man can indeed do despite the Spirit of Grace and their punishment will be worse than those who disobeyed Moses' laws.

Are you seriously going to deny this is not a warning from God NOT to resist the Spirit?

Going back to Judaism after being a Christian IS a possibility and God felt the need to warn us about it.
---JackB on 5/15/10


correction- ask, seek, knock (not find) and it will be opened.
---aka_joseph on 5/15/10


You forgot to comment on Acts 26:28 where Agrippa resisted the gospel of Jesus Christ although it was obvious the Holy Spirit was working on his heart thru Pauls words. Using Paul, God almost convinced him.

Did Agrippa resist the sovereign will of God?
---JackB on 5/15/10


Mar 16:15 And he said to them [11 Jewish Apostles]"Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.

Mat 23:10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.

Christ instructed Paul, who was the Jew of all Jews, to go out and give the gospel of grace to the Gentile nations. This means the the Messiah, who Trav does not believe in, we are all one.)

Read all of Hebrews. Heb 9:28 says that Christ will appear a second time. Those who follow Judaism do not believe the Messiah came the first time.

The words Jesus the Messiah uses are ask/seek/find not see/seek/find. Judaism does not acknowledge our Bible as Scripture. They just use it to make us doubt.
---aka_joseph on 5/15/10


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Jack B, I completely agree with Matthew 22:14.
The call spoken of here is referred to as the "general call" in the case of the wedding, everyone knew of it, many that heard about it showed up. With God it refers to the external call -a summons to repentance and faith that is inherent in the gospel message. The call extends to all who hear the gospel. "Many" hear it, few respond (vv. 7:13,14). Those that respond are the "Chosen" the Elect. In the Pauline writings, the word "call" usually refers to God's irresistable calling extended to the elect alone (Romans 8:30). Known as the eternal call, The drawing is a supernatural drawing of God which Jesus speaks of in (John 6:44).
---MarkV. on 5/15/10


Please Answer, A mans eyes and ears will never provide enough proof for them that God exists. You can only find God with your heart. Take notice of the many comments the Bible makes about the "hardness" of a man's heart and his spiritual condition because of his heart.

2000 years ago God walked this earth as a man, healed the sick, raised the dead, laid his life down for us and came back from the dead and STILL AFTER ALL OF THAT *some* people did not believe. They believed He was from the devil.

So the best answer I can give you is , if your heart isnt ready to receive God he could appear right in front of you and you STILL would not believe it was Him.
---JackB on 5/15/10


Good reply, Trav.
I think it's not that unusual for Christians to have doubts. Many don't admit it. For me, doubts have caused me to study more of the Word and inquire of the Lord more deeply. And that's a GOOD thing. A number of my questions have been settled permanently because of it.
---Donna66 on 5/15/10


If God loves me, why did he put the doubts in my head? If he exists, he should make himself more evident to all,..---Please_Answer on 5/10/10

Meet another doubter. 40 years. He does exist. He can use doubters..... They search and discard lies. Doubters would rather die unsure than uphold stupid or lie's.

1. Ask the Teacher. Pray...with whole heart. The only Teacher. No one here qualifies....ever.
Matt 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren.

2. Seek/search hard. U will find.
3. Verify everything with two or more scriptural witnesses. Example:Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31.
All will never see/seek/find....he never said they would. Matt 10:6/15:24.
---Trav on 5/14/10


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Matthew 22:14 Jesus disagrees with you MarkV

For many are called, but few are chosen.

Some dont put on the right garment (Christs blood washed robe), but instead come to the wedding with their own filthy wardrobe (lawlessness and good deeds)

Apparently Gods "sovereign" calling doesnt always mean a person will accept Christ by faith. Some reject him. Theres that darn free will thing again.

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
---JackB on 5/14/10


He would refuse the liar.
---Elaine on 5/11/10


Please Answer,
first of all you need to get save. You will never understand any spiritual advice that comes to you unless you are born of the Spirit. I say this to you because your answer proofs you cannot be save since you question there is even a God. When a person is born of the Spirit, he/she believes by faith. They might not understand a lot of things yet, but believe by faith what God says is Truth. The problem is not with God, but with you. There is enough truth in Scripture to save anyone. But you have to believe it in the first place. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, but not all get faith. You have not got it. Seek the Lord and you will find the answers because the lost never seek God. I encourage you to seek.
---MarkV. on 5/11/10


Please answer -- I have asked this question in the past regarding my own doubts. Some will tell you, "Don't doubt. It's a sin" But doubts are not something you "choose". It's almost like they choose YOU.

I've learned, now, to confront God directly. Because I'm a Christian (and if I wasn't, I'd do whatever is needed to be one) I go to the Bible asking God to show me the truth. I read any applicable passages I can find, including footnotes. Not knowing original languages, I read it in different versions. Sometime I consult a trusted spiritual adviser. Especially, I pray!

I think God allows doubts so we can establish the real reasons for our beliefs and become even more certain of the truths we can rely on.
---Donna66 on 5/10/10


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If God loves me, why did he put the doubts in my head? Why doesn't he save me from my doubt? If he exists, he should make himself more evident to all, which is very logical solution. If you could prove he existed, there would be no contest
---Please_Answer on 5/10/10


Alan, very good. Jesus refuses no one who comes to Him. For they are chosen, and drawn by the Father. The Father has predestined those who would be saved (Rom. 8:28,29, Eph. 1:3-6, 1 Peter 1:2). The absolute sovereignty of God is the basis of Jesus confidence in the success of His mission (v. 40, Phil 1:6). The security of salvation rest in the sovereignty of God, for God is the guarantee that "all" He has chosen will come to Him for salvation. The Idea of "gives Me" is that every person chosen by God and drawn by God (v.44) must be seen as a gift of the Father's love to the Son. The Son receives each "love gift" (v.37), holds on to each (v.39), and will raise each to eternal glory (vv. 39,40).
---MarkV. on 5/8/10


Yes, a quick glimpse at Scripture. When God CHOOSES you for Himself, you literally have no control over the matter, because God is all-powerful. If the Father is leading an individual to Jesus and salvation there is no way that Jesus would say, NO.
---catherine on 5/7/10


MV, (1 Corinthians 10)
Paul is speaking clearly to the 'brethren', to get them out of their ignorance. So that they would not think his words are foreign to them, he stresses that the subjects of his remembrance "drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." Neither, neither, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

God does not "gives light to His Word", rather his word is light and his people are a light. Evil doers do not come near the light, only those who "doeth truth" desire to approach the light that their deeds be seen that they are wrought in God. (John 3:20,21).
---Nana on 5/6/10


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Yes ... it is quite possible for Jesus to refuse ... He can do, or not do, anything as it pleasaes Him. But His promise is such that He would accept anyone who sincerely comes to Him for salvation.
---alan8869_of_UK on 5/2/08


Heb.12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled,

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears
---steven-rem7000 on 8/15/07


The verse says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out." What did Jesus say? He will cast out "no one" whom the Father gives Him. Not a one. No special interpretation is needed for that verse. Very simple passage. Hermeneutics is not needed. Only faith.
---mark on 8/1/07


Numbers 21:8
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Not everyone looked! The scriptures teach WHOSOEVER will....

John 3: 14
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
---kathr4453 on 7/29/07


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Jesus will not refuse anyone who comes to him with a sinceir heart. If a person is just uttering words with their lips and their heart is far from God, God doesn't hear them, for they are not sinceir.
---Rebecca_D on 7/22/07


Bruce If a person continually refuses to accept His gift then as it says in John 3 "He that beleiveth not is condemened already becauase he hath not beleved in the name of the only begotten Son of God." So really He doesnt refuse to save us we refuse to accept it. In RM 8:29 it says, "For whom he did forknow, He also did predestinate to be CONFORMED to the image of his Son..." As far as I can tell that is the point of predestination.
---douglas on 1/26/06


Rickey,
I did not say he would, but could. Thank God "He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities." Psalms 103:10

The warning of Prov 1 still stands and as I said, I think it will find particular application during the tribulation when those who had every chance to accept him now refused.
---Bruce5656 on 1/26/06


Jesus won't refuse salvation to a person who has rejected salvation at a previous time. If He would then I would be on my way to hell. I had many chances to get save, but didn't until I was 18.
---Rickey on 1/26/06


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Douglas,
I did not read that scripture before I answered the question. It raises the issue of predestination etc. In quoting Proverbs 1 I was making the point that it is in fact possible for Jesus to refuse salvation to someone who has rejected his offer previously.
---Bruce5656 on 1/26/06


John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out
---douglas on 1/25/06


v.24 "Because I have called, and you have refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
v.25 "But you have set at naught all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:..."

the person who continually refuses to hear God, was he saved or self deluded? When we come to Him in repentance His Spirit comes to dwell in us, maybe I'm wrong but I cant see a true christian refusing His counsel or reproofs
---douglas on 1/25/06


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