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Jesus Never Existed

Friday I saw an article on the Internet regarding a priest in Italy being sued for saying that Jesus existed. The person suing wants the case to be heard in the European Court of Human Rights for religous racism. Shouldn't we Christians around the world be outraged and stand up for our Savior?

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 ---wenda7494 on 1/30/06
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Alan: Sounds like this atheist dude is just trying to get publicity to sell his books.
---jerry6593 on 4/26/08


I found the web-site very quickly. Just type in "Jesus exists" and you will go straight to a news item about the case. The plaintiff, who is suing the priest is reported as saying ""In my book, 'The Fable of Christ,' I present proof Jesus did not exist as a historic figure. He must now refute this by showing proof of Christ's existence"
---alan8869_of_UK on 4/24/08


I saw a posting on the net that said that Elvis was still alive, and living on a UFO. You can't take everything in this twisted world seriously.
---jerry6593 on 8/11/07


Christian's should remain calm, certainly all kinds of different damnable heresies are flooding the Sands of men's minds. However our God is not in the least bit worried concerned are in doubt and neither should we be. The sovereignty of our God is not about to be the washed away by the doubts of men.
---mima on 8/10/07


Of course Jesus existed, even secularists believe he existed even if they don't believe in how his message has been interpreted. I doubt this case will get far. This is ridiculous
---Khadijah on 3/12/07




Did Jesus exist, hahahha. Either you believe or you don't. If christians are being persecuted why would you want to defend them cause Jesus said great is there reward in heaven
---johnlovesginalyn on 3/11/07


1st Cliff, you said: ... since outside the bible no secular history of Jesus exists!
The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ. The Old Testament points to His coming in the New Testament.
If, historically, He never existed, then we are of all men most miserable. We will all be lost for eternity because Jesus is the only way to God.
If Jesus Christ never existed, then we may as well throw our Bibles out in the trash because it's a great hoax... NOT!
---Chipper on 3/11/07


Anyone that loves Jesus Christ should be willing to die for Him. Many times in history, those who should have yelled from the tree tops did nothing. Prayer is gone from schools. laws are changed to hurt victims of crime. It is wrong to mention anything in public about God and His righeousness. Where were you? Did you defend Jesus Christ in all things, or did you sit back and do nothing. What ye sew, ye shall also reap. No wonder the world is so evil, both in and out of churches that profess Jesus Christ.
---Dave on 3/11/07


Christian should remain calm certainly all kinds of different damnable heresies are flooding the Sands of men's minds. However our God is not in the least bit worried concerned are in doubt and neither should we be. The sovereignty of our God is not about the washed away by the doubts of men.
---mima on 3/11/07


You know what Saints of the Most High God through Jesus! When denials of Jesus existence arise around the world, rejoice, your Redeemer draws near! And whether the atheist likes it or not, every eye shall see Jesus and acknowledge that He is LORD! shira9693
---Shirley on 7/5/06




SEE, I TOLD YOU GUYS!
An Italian atheist lost his legal crusade against the Catholic Church on Thursday when a judge rejected his attempts to sue a priest for saying that Jesus existed 2,000 years ago, the priest's lawyer said
---John_T on 2/10/06


I just wonder if we don't publicly defend Jesus's name if we are being like Peter and denying him.
---wenda7494 on 2/2/06


As Christians we should be aware of the world around us - but not worried - or outraged. We are called to be salt and light. Yes, we should always take a stand for Jesus. But, do we fight for rights? I'm not sure. I do see Paul stating his Roman citizenship as a reason not to be imprisioned - but not his heavenly one. Jesus said we will be hated - and that we are to be harmless as doves yet wise as serpents. So, rest and trust Him. Move if He directs, but otherwise... don't worry... be happy...
---daphn8897 on 2/2/06


John T ... because of the further implications of what Wenda has said.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/2/06


We are in a spiritual battle. As Christians, our role is to pray, read scripture, and tell others how to be saved, and trust God.

Proverbs 3:5, Ephesians 6:12-18, Hebrews 4:12, 1John 4:4
---Ulrika on 2/1/06


The point I was making was that the evidence is absolutely clear. Both an excellent legal scholar and Josh both concluded that the evidence is irrefutable.

Why should anyone worry about an Italian version of Michael Neudow?
---John_T on 2/1/06


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John T Having written my response to you, I now see that Wenda has made the same points. Look at what has happened in the courts in America about the teaching of the Genesis creation story. Do you not worry about that?
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/1/06


John T "Why worry about an Italian atheist?"
Because America is not the only part of the world that counts. What happens elsewhere in the world DOES matter.
A decision in an Italian Court of Law could become binding in the whole of the EU.
And although Italy is nominally a Cathlic country, there is a very large atheist influence there.
And as in America, the courts here seem to delight in coming to perverse decisions.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/1/06


We definately need to stand up for what we believe, but even if the courts rule against the name of Christ; so what? The scripture shows us that we will suffer persecution and many around the world DO TRULY suffer, in the west we dont. In some countries it is against the law to be a christian, on the pain of death, but it doesn't stop them from believing. In new testament church time even when ordered to the disciples never stopped preaching in His name. We are living in the end times, be prepared.
---douglas on 2/1/06


I worry because the what ifs I guess. What if he makes it to this European Court of Human Rights? What if this court decides that Jesus's name can't be used in churches? What if Christians aren't aware of the evil in the world around us and let Jesus be removed from our churchs?

How long do we wait to stand up for Jesus? We waited too long to stand up for prayer in our schools.
---wenda7494 on 2/1/06


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Hi 1st_cliff! Stirring the pot as usual!?! :o) As you know, I rarely agree with you, but I do appreciate that you make us work and study to show that we "know" what we believe. So, guys... let him push buttons and stir... perhaps as we endeavor to respond to those pushed buttons and mixed up pots, with truth and compassion, his heart might be itself might be stirred. Prayerfully...
---daphn8897 on 2/1/06


Leon; I capitalized LAW because that was the subject at hand.I have NO doubts about the existance of Jesus, but because I responded to the question, suddenly they jump on me saying that I doubt His existance ,which is ludicrous!
---1st_cliff on 2/1/06


In the US, two atheists tried to prove the non-existence of Jesus by writing a book about their findings. One, Simon Greenleaf, founder of Harvard Law School determined that the evidences for Christ EXCEEDED the Rules for Evidence in a US Federal court. He later was Massachusetts Bible Society president.

The other person was Josh McDowell, author of the book series, Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

Why worry about an Italian atheist?
---John_T on 2/1/06


Two atheists tried to prove the non-existence of Jesus by writing a book about their findings. One, Simon Greenleaf, founder of Harvard Law School determined that the evidences for Christ EXCEEDED the Rules for Evidence in a US Federal court. He later was Massachusetts Bible Society president.

The other person was Josh McDowell, author of the book series, Evidence that Demands a Verdict.

Why worry about an Italian atheist?
---John_T on 2/1/06


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There is sufficient proof if only it will be used appropriately.
---Rudy on 2/1/06


Cliff: Okay, you believe in Jesus. Good!

I noticed you capitalized the word "law". Apparently you highly esteem secular law.

Are you saying if Josephus ultimately converted to Christianity -- I hope he did -- a possible pre-conversion secular history recorded by him, regarding a historical Jesus, doesn't count?
---Leon on 2/1/06


Elder: You're right. That's what I get for reading & responding on the run.

Alan...: My bad! -- I apologize for the brain flatulence. :-)
---Leon on 2/1/06


Leon please read Alan again. You will notice he is not defending Cliff.
Cliff gets great joy out of his comments and debate and misinformation and Alan is not defending this.
---Elder on 2/1/06


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[Pt.2] But everyone needs to realize that of the only records of that time, Jesus does appear in the ones you'd expect Him to! Just as atheists have always done, if something provides evidence contrary to their beliefs, they simply toss it out! If a trial ever were to be held, they can *not* disregard Gospel accounts of the life of Jesus; historically, they are better than we have of many other's lives!
---Daniel on 2/1/06


I am outraged. I stand firm. I believed that Jesus did exist. I firmly believe that He lived here on earth, hung bled and died for the remission of our sins. I also believe that the third day He got up out of the grave with all power of Heaven and Earth in His hands.
How can we justifiable say we believe in God whom we have never seen, but deny th existence of His Son.
---m.moc9798 on 2/1/06


Leon; Don't get me wrong I firmly believe that Jesus was/is real history or no history. That's not the point we're talking Law! Josephus was born a Saddusee, some claim even converted to Christianity not really a "secular" histstoian!
---1st_cliff on 2/1/06


[Pt.2] But everyone needs to realize that of the only records of that time, Jesus does appear in the ones you'd expect Him to! Just as atheists have always done, if something provides evidence contrary to their beliefs, they simply toss it out! If a trial ever were to be held, they can *not* disregard Gospel accounts of the life of Jesus; historically, they are better than we have of many other's lives!
---Daniel on 2/1/06


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[Pt.1] There are very good reasons for why we can't generally 'prove' the existence of any particular individual from so long ago! However, there are citations; and really it takes only one! In the _Annals_ of Tacitus, 15.44, writing of Nero's acts in 64AD: He "falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius." [CONT.]
---Daniel on 2/1/06


Alan...You did say "IF"? According to the great swelling words of the awl knowing Cliff, the secular history of Jesus is non-existent. Yet he casually back-hands Josephus as being an irrelevant historian regarding Jesus. With Cliff...it seems everything about Jesus is suspect/controversial/debatable & you're defending him? The court of law analogy you used must be the absolutely blindess blind leading the hopelessly blind...
---Leon on 2/1/06


Sure Jesus is mentioned in the Quoran,500AD but there's no 1st century secular history of Christ outside the scriptures.It's not something I made up, it just happens to be! He is mentioned once in Josephus' Antiquity of the Jews.book 18 chapt.3 pp3. but even this is not without controversy.
---1st_cliff on 1/31/06


Jewish writers wrote of Jesus in their history books.
But now we are "progressing" to history books to prove the Scriptures.
Strange huh?
When I tell you that there are no blue marbles I must have seen ALL the marbles ever made anywhere, so I doubt the "informed" comment of our fine source of trivia.
---Elder on 1/31/06


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Nonetheless, the work of four major non-Christian historians contain passages possibly relating to Jesus: Pliny the Younger, Josephus, Suetonius, and Tacitus.
---mike on 1/31/06


Sources: Gospel of Mark, Gospel of Matthew, Gospel of Luke, Gospel of John, Epistles of Paul and comparable letters; Flavius Josephus, Jewish Antiquities 18.63-64; Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a-b.
---mike on 1/31/06


Leon ... if Jesus is not mentioned in amy secular history or records, there is nothing wrong in Cliff making this point. If that is the case, it would indeed be difficult to prove to a court of civil law that Jesus existed. To the court it would be just the same as someone using story books to prove that Little Red Riding Hood existed.
I think though that the plaintiff will have problems in proving that there was no such person. If anyone did not exist, how do you prove it?
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/31/06


That's right Mike. Once again Cliff is baiting the CN community & has defiantly thrown down the gauntlet. (Eph. 6:11-18)
---Leon on 1/31/06


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Did you say that Jesus is only mentioned in the Bible?
---mike on 1/31/06


The whole world can deny Christ, but that doesn't make Christ nonexistent. Ignorant people say the holocaust never happened also, but tell that to a survivor of a concentration camp. Lord, let us who are saved, see the look upon the faces of all the foolish atheists and agnostics when you come again in glory as promised, and sound the archangel's trumpet, and part the eastern sky and roll it up as a scroll, and the graves are opened and we are ascended up from off the earth. In Jesus Name I pray. Amen.
---Eloy on 1/31/06


In an actual court of law it would be a very difficult trial, since outside the bible no secular history of Jesus exists!
---1st_cliff on 1/30/06


Thanks Alan for the extra information. I saw the article for the first time on Friday and was upset by it.
---wenda7494 on 1/30/06


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Yeah, it's an ongoing thing. The same attorney has been trying to get this in court since 1993. The thing is, he might win the case, but no amount of lawyers and judges will remove Jesus from existence on that great and terrible day. ---Standing on the Promises in Georgia---
---mike on 1/30/06


Do a google search saking for "Jesus exists" and you will go straight the the news item about this
---alan8869_of_UK on 1/30/06


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