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Was Mary A Virgin

In Luke 1:34" Why would Mary respond if she was betrothed to a man (v34) "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man.", unless she had plan on staying a virgin. It was until the Angel told her how, she said (v38 )"May it be to me according to thy will."

Moderator - Because she was a virgin, until she gave birth to Christ.

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 ---ruben on 2/4/06
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Once Mary and Joseph had intercourse, then Mary was no longer a virgin.
---Helen_5378 on 7/16/07

Mary was a Virgin, however she did not die a Virgin.
---Marcia on 7/14/07

I know that people should pay more attention about their own salvation. Has God really chosen you to spend Eternity with Him? Don't worry so much about these here priests and all the Catholics. Perhaps you should check with God to find out whether or not you are really saved. Cause if He does not know that you are saved, you lost.
---catherine on 7/14/07

NVB::I dont recall writing this post,matter of Fact my puter was down,since last afternoon So i shall have to refute this post written by some peropetrator to cause dissent.Nice try but whoever posted is a mischief maker.
---Emcee on 7/14/07

Nv Barbara:: You are so ready to villify a priest, who incidentally I am defending But you forget that this type of sin is prevalent since creation & even today same sex Marriage,both sexes, not to speak of this misbehaviour even among your pastors & if so, why magnify the RCC: its like a horse wearing blinders.Dont cast stones, it breeds hatred & not christian like even if you call him brother.
---Emcee on 7/14/07

RCC teaches sex outside of mariage is a sin. Sex within a marriage covenant should never exclude the possibility of life. Couples who put off a family, practice self control, and engage in intercourse when the woman is not fertile, have a 65% less divorce rate than other married couples.
---Tony on 5/2/06

Did you make a mistake in that post?
"Ergo, Mary could not be pure and spotless if she had no sex."
Did you mean "Ergo, Mary could not be pure and spotless if she had sex."?
---Bruce5656 on 2/22/06

2 points.
1/ RCC doctine is that Mary was conceived sinless, the Immaculate Conception.
2/ The RCC does in fact teach that sex is a sin, and should only be practised for conception. Hence the use of contraceptives is forbidden.
Ergo, Mary could not be pure and spotless if she had no sex.
---mike6553 on 2/22/06

Yes Daniel you are right ... I got the totally wrong end of the stick as to what you had said.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/22/06

Alan, you assumed too much without truly looking at only what was written; nor asking me for more info! The "Cults" Quiz says only "Mary was a virgin." Even an *atheist* would have to agree with that! Why? Because all girls are virgins until some no longer are! Unless there's a 'time frame' (at what point in her life) or 'relationship to some event' qualifier added to that statement, then it's effectively _meaningless_ as I said. So I wish CN would change it.

Moderator - Daniel what is the exact quiz and number so we can modify accordingly if you are correct.
---Daniel on 2/22/06

Daniel ... the virginity of Mary at the time of Mesus' conception is an intrinsic part of the Christian faith. Her continuing and perpetual virginity is of great importance to some Christians (mainly Roman Catholics) Most non-RCs accept that she may have had & probably did have more children. To some of them it is of great importance to prove that she had more children.
These strongly held beliefs may be debated, but their holders should not be denigrated.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/21/06

I have to ask: Am I the only one here who sees that asking someone if they agree with the statement "Mary was a virgin" is meaningless? (If you don't know what that refers to, take the "Cults" quiz; not sure if the order changes... it was #13 before, now it's #19.)
---Daniel on 2/20/06

Ruben. 'Then the man brought me back to the outer east gateway of the TEMPLE AREA, BUT THE GATE WAS SHUT'. The first verse must be taken. Its was temple. Reread. Your twisting of scripture its not funnY. WE NOT LAUGHING. Mary? not a funning joke men.
---Ramon on 2/19/06

Ruben. Please read that chapter again, you dont know what he means. saying things like will make you look like a fool.Thats a joke right? Where you got this Joke? Its pretty funny.
---Ramon on 2/19/06

Ruben. WAKE UP ANF SMELL THE COFFEE.Ezekiel 44:2. What? Were you alsleep when you post that. You have no idea what that chapter is talking about, right? You are putting things so far out of context that you want to CHANGE the meaning of the bible to come to your point. That what you said its laughable. Im laughing right now. Guys that show how FAR ruben will go to prove a point, that HE will CHANGE the passage around. Why dont you answer my question?
---Ramon on 2/19/06

Ummmm...Ruben- it's the city of Jerusalem that is being referred to in that scripture- nothing there at all referring to Mary. You're really dreaming there, and putting things so far out of context that you'll never get the true meaning back. That, my friend, is so far out into left field that it's almost laughable.
---Ann5758 on 2/19/06

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Ruben ... Ruben ... go on to verse 16 of Ez44: "They shall enter into my sanctuary" ... I could say that is a prophecy of Mary becoming a wanton woman with all the Levites.
Trouble with both that interpretation and yours of verse 2, is that neither take the slightest regard of the context.
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/19/06

CN Friends, My tongue in cheek responce to Ruben is to only show how much of a foolish length he will go to, to prove a point that is NOT TRUE.
---Elder on 2/18/06

Ruben....Ruben.....Hey Ruben... Wake up Boy your gonna fall off the bed.
Man... and all these years I thought that verse musta been talking about not having a chainlink fence and gate around your yard.
Ruben You are really trying to stretch the Truth now.
Did you learn this Tactic from the RCC?
---Elder on 2/18/06

Here is a verse for all to think about! (Ezekiel 44:2) Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. A prophesy regarding the perpetual VIRGINITY of Mary!

Moderator - Are you joking?
---ruben on 2/18/06

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I don't know of any woman who married to be celibate. What would be the point of marrying? I know women who are celibate, but they didn't marry.

You now say that Joseph CHOSE to be celibate two? Is that scriptural? No, & neither is your opinion that Mary stayed celibate. You are guessing.

Scripture makes it clear that Mary & Joseph had a normal marital life after Jesus was born.You just choose 2 deny the scriptural reference I have given already on this topic.
---Debbie on 2/17/06

Ruben. You are a story in a half. BIBLE ALONE, AND FAITH ALONE IS THE BIBLE. ONLY THOSE WHO ARE BLIND WILL SAY OTHER WISE. We had a disscusion about but it seems that you always run away when the truth comes. You scare of the Truth. You are like that you run away from the Truth. You never wrote back. Pretty pity and stupid if you want to defend your 'faith'. What a guy you are. THE CC IS MAN MADE. why we dont continue our discussion? not here, but where we were before.
---Ramon on 2/17/06

Debbie::How many women do you know, who were virgins & reserved themselves for Christ as their bridegroom.Who & what are they denying & why --why do women do things that are inexplicable --only they know.If Mary chose to be celibate with her mate who had the same idea what is wrong with that what law are they breaking.There are lots of men taken the same vow of Chastity.why do they do it? is it because some were Jilted & cant trust women again. I don't know & neither do you, unless you want to guess.
---Emcee on 2/17/06

Mike :: No need to make mention, but it is noted as genuine & gentlemanly. Thanks, we all have a BP, its human & I for one, do not take offence friend.ok! so where were we,ah yes, I have to smile, there are many who do fault, but it is the man not the office or the doctrine that is in error.We don't judge,for fear of bringing condemnation upon ourselves. That's Gods work.
---Emcee on 2/17/06

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Mike-(With time, I can show that every doctirne that is not in the Bible is manmade) Are you talking about Doctrines like Bible alone, faith alone, OSOA, Rapture theory , yea Man made!!
---ruben on 2/17/06

1/ The priest/bishop/cardinal/pope can do no wrong and is never wrong.
2/ When they are wrong, refer to rule 1.
With time, I can show that every doctirne that is not in the Bible is manmade, but what would I achieve? When you have had these "truths" beaten into you, your going to believe them.
Easier to convince a Muslim that the koran is not the word of God.
---mike6553 on 2/17/06

Emcee, I need to aplogise to you, for a wrong attitude in many of my responses. I'm not changing my views, but I was unthinking in my attitude to you, having been there.
People, specially ex-RCC, you should know that a RCC has the free will to obey the priest and the pope, and nothing else. There have only ever been 2 rules, at least in the churches in Canada, NYC and Pa, and in Italy.
---mike6553 on 2/17/06


You said Mary "chose" to be celibate (i.e. not hold up her end of the marriage covenant). Celibacy is not chosen in marriage as scripture states otherwise if you choose to read it.

I am not contesting Scripture, I am contesting your opinion on Mary as it is false and not backed up with Scripture.

Why is it that when I give Scriptural proof of things, you have nothing to say? But you have lots to say on opinions and traditions.
---Debbie on 2/16/06

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Debbie:: If you look closely to what you have written you will find both are Gods words I had nothing to add or subtract, no opinion. Read my remark to Ann. You are the one one contesting need I say more.
---Emcee on 2/16/06

bethroded meant engaged in marys day. there was a contract between joseph and marys' families for them to be married. joseph was going to break the contract when he found out mary was pregnant however he was told mary was pregnant by the holy spirit and then he married her. after jesus was born they did have sexual relations and mary had other children by joseph.
---raymond on 2/16/06

Part 2:

5 "Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

It would be a sin for Mary to withhold herself from her husband (except for reason stated above).
---Debbie on 2/16/06


Scriptural references regarding celibacy & marriage.1 Corinthians 7:2-5:

"Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does."

---Debbie on 2/16/06

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You say all who were called "blessed" by an angel or by God were also sinless? Then are you calling Scripture lies? Example:

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10

So which is incorrect, your opinion or God's Word??? I have to say that your opinion is what is in error here. Or does your knowledge supercede the Lord's?
---Debbie on 2/16/06

Ann::You are referring to the marriage of Isaac & Rebekah. Laban, Rebekah's brother uttered those words Blessed. Not God or the angel, but there were many holy men in those days who were chosen by God so if they were declared blessed they would be without sin as In Gen26;V12: Matt 5;V1-12 deals with the sermon on the mount Jesus was teaching the cirmcumstances when people would be considered blessed. No one earmarked.
---Emcee on 2/16/06

Bruce ::My honest answer is her choice. I imagine Its like if you decided to be celibate its your choice & this is not uncommon lots of men & women have chosen to accept this life of abstinence, some women have even chosen death rather than dishonour.Its a chosen dedication.
---Emcee on 2/16/06

Correct, I don't have to, and won't read them. After nearly 200 posts on this blog alone, can't "thinking people" figure that they aren't going to convince some body of something against their long held convictions? Its like children fighting in a school yard.
---Barbara on 2/14/06

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Please understand, this is not intended as an argumentive question nor is it intended to be a leading question! I am simply trying to understand the Catholic point of view on this.

Given that, "the union of two in one flesh is not sin", what is the reason why Mary had to remain a virgin?
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

Bruce::I contend Mary was sinless & a virgin& others say she was with sin quoting all were born shortETc.therefore she is with sin.That has nothing to do with whether she had children or not.First you have to admit she was pure as ordained by God,Not assume as you have in your reply of 12/2:the answer to your question is having children within a marriage is no sin but you already know that assuming there are children.
---Emcee on 2/13/06

To be blessed is to be sinless? Gen.24:31 "And he said,Come in,thou blessed of the LORD;wherefore standest thou without?" Gen. 26:12 "Then Isaac sowed in that land,and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him." Ps.45:2 "Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever." And Matt.5:1-12 tells of many people Christ says are blessed.Are all these people sinless because they are blessed?
---Ann5758 on 2/13/06

Emcee."because it is under the Guidance of Jesus & the Holy spirit.matt.28-v20 & jn.16-v19:Matt16,V19" No its not!. How can the HS tell lies? Really you are blind if you cant see that. The CC was always in error. You cant denied that!. In matther of Faith, the CC is wrong. In matthers of doctrine, they are wrong!.
---Ramon on 2/13/06

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well i see that mary was just one of the miracles that was done by god see if you go back to genesis1;26 god said,"let us make man in our image,in our likeness.......this proves that there were more than one person in heaven at the time.john3;16 states that he gave his one and only he didnt create his son,he sent him through the whomb of mary.
---juana on 2/13/06

MA::It is your belief that the catholic church teaches false doctrine,That is your opinion.but in matters Of Faith & morals the church never errs.because it is under the Guidance of Jesus & the Holy spirit.matt.28-v20 & jn.16-v19:Matt16,V19
---Emcee on 2/13/06

Barbara,who are you ,or any of us for that matter, to tell grown,thinking ,people enough is enough. That isn't our call, and besides differing opinions aren't arguments but discussions. This forum is for sharing views and since most have strong convictions it may get a little intense, but until they get ready to quit it is their business. We don't have to read them. God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 2/13/06

Bruce:Useless rebuttal is not what I intended.I have explained myself Clearly on Blogs 10/2 & 6/2On this question.Your conclusion #4 is yours not mine,I cannot make you believe anything that has got to come from within yourself.In the RCC, within the union of two in one flesh, Is not a sin.Mary was sinless as ordained BY God the Father.He called her woman then but she got a name when the angel Gabriel appeared to her & made the declaration TRUTH .To be blessed Is to be sinless
---Emcee on 2/13/06

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See my response to M.A. below. My interest is only to know the answer, not to dispute it.
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

NO ONE is going to change their minds on this subject, be it a RC or not, why keep this argument up? This has become rediculous! Enough is enough.
---Barbara on 2/13/06

I understand that fully.
In this case, I am not interested in entering into a discusson or argument on the topic with Emcee, I just what to know what the answer is. Getting a straight answer to one simple question seems to be very difficult. Perhaps he does not have one.
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

"I am wondering what is the importance of Mary's being a perpetual virgin." Bruce, the reason this is important to the Roman Catholics is that if they ever admitted now that they were wrong they would have to admit that they had been TAUGHT something that was wrong (and totally unnecessary to believe). Roman Catholics do not criticise the Roman Catholic church. This argument could go on for another year and you will not get a Roman Catholic to admit that their church is wrong on some things.
---M.A. on 2/13/06

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Do can you relate to this? Someone asks the moderator a straight forward question and he responds with take this or that quiz rather than giving a straight answer. You know how frustrating that can be? That is what it feels like to read your answer to my simple question.

So, Ill play along and I will respond to your post point by point:
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

Does God create sin ans:No - agreed
Did he create A& E sinless Ans YES - agreed
Did GOD create or promise a woman when rebuking the devil in Geneses 3; V15Ans YES He promised an offspring of eve would crush the serpents head (Jesus or Mary is irrelevant to my question)
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

If so,why would he create some thing with sinAns-Impossible he is pure & God hates sin so the opposite will be Sinless-Correct Who was that woman to carry the seed MARY which would transalate that she is also sinless which she is without a doubt.His prophecy of Enmity is apparant. I said in my question that (for the purpose of my question) I was not questioning the sinless Mary belief.
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

None of this answers my simple question:

What does Mary having or not having more children have to do with her being or remaining sinless?

The only possible conclusion I can draw from your answer is that for a married woman to have children is a sinful act, therefore, Mary, being sinless, could not have any more children by natural procreation (sex with her husband.)

Is that what you want me to understand you believe?
---Bruce5656 on 2/13/06

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Unfortunately, I think Emcee is quite purposely vague and unclear. We cannot give specifics when there are none to give. He is at the very least blind in this area - so, perhaps prayer is a better tactic than attempting persuasion.
---daphn8897 on 2/13/06

Incidently, Emcee, I did read and reread the post you refer to. It is difficult to understand when you do not use any puncutation.
---Bruce5656 on 2/12/06

Did you read my question? I did not ask you about Mary's sinlessness. I said "Assuming that she did remain sinless through out her life"

My question: "How would having other children change her sinless status? Or to put it another way, what is the connection between having children in marriage and sin?
---Bruce5656 on 2/12/06

Bruce ::Please read my reply Dated 2/11/06 its all quite clear;read it slowly just in case you may miss some pertinant fact.
---Emcee on 2/12/06

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I am sorry, Emcee, I don't understand your answer. Do you have an answer to my question or can you direct me to a source that discusses it?
---Bruce5656 on 2/12/06

The belief in the sinlessness of Mary is more connected with the political aims of the papacy than with Scripture. The only thing that they - the RCC - have to back up their belief is found in unwritten tradition - something out there in the ether someplace. Emcee should 'fess up on this and be done with it.
---lee on 2/12/06

Bruce :: I have no problem with a fact it would seem the rest or a great percentage of People Do.Para #3 No. even if she did .
---Emcee on 2/12/06

Emcee are you now saying that Mary was conceived without sin. If so she would not have a sin nature. She would have had to born just like Jesus so she would have been a deity.
Or maybe it was her parents that were conceived without sin?
Do you ever think that one day before the Judgement you will see how off base your beliefs are? If Mary is without sin why does she have to bow at the feet of Jesus?
---Elder on 2/12/06

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You have better memory than I. I looked for the blog you mentioned but could not find it.

Could you please be so kind as to humor me? I am wondering what is the importance of Mary's being a perpetual virgin.

Assuming that she did remain sinless through out her life, what does that have to do with having other children? How would having other children change her sinless status?
---Bruce5656 on 2/11/06

Elder :: Yes only if you were ordained & answerTo your blog.Reg your supposition I do not agree because God is the one who makes the world go around, he chose mary; mary did not choose him the Angel told her.Supposition is the snare of the dark regions.
---Emcee on 2/11/06

Elder ... Things conspire against us as we get older. The print gets smaller, and my trouser waistband shrinks, and teh keys on teh keybaord moev abuot.
Nut no I am not becoming Americanised ... you do not spell things correctly ... you have ironed out so many of the stupidities of English spelling that I would not be able to cope!
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/11/06

Emcee... You are a broken record. You have yet to scripturally PROVE Mary was sinless. Why? Because it cannot be done. God has often used sinful men and women to do His will and still does. He can and does use anything or anyone He wants. The only one who had to be sinless was the Lamb Himself, because He was to bare our sins - to be that perfect sacrifice. Mary was not to bare any sin other than her own - which ultimately Jesus bore anyway.
---daphn8897 on 2/11/06

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Whoa....Moderator read my post again. Maybe this is why I have such a hard time. (The k is next to the l when loking for a "b". I think I have had too much of my oun... er oune... agh own, yea own is the word, coffee. Brain jumped time again.

Moderator :)
---Elder on 2/11/06

Bruce Debbie::Does God create sin ans:No Did he create A& E sinless Ans YES Did GOD create or promise a woman when rebuking the devil in Geneses 3; V15Ans YES
If so,why would he create some thing with sinAns-Impossible he is pure & God hates sin so the opposite will be Sinless-Correct Who was that woman to carry the seed MARY which would transalate that she is also sinless which she is without a doubt.His prophecy of Enmity is apparant.
---Emcee on 2/11/06


I responded on this topic back on 2/5. :)


You have yet to prove Mary was sinless. As Elder so eloquently put it, Mary was/is nothing special, but what God did with her was/is special. That is where you get confused. Instead of giving all praise to the Lord, you lump it onto Mary. You raise her to the place of Jesus and deify her. No matter how many times I type that God's Holy Word says that ONLY Jesus is our mediator/intercessor, you still don't believe.
---Debbie on 2/11/06

Bruce. You already have the answer which you explained earlier with your 64000$ QUESTION. NEED I SAY MORE.
---Emcee on 2/11/06

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tangent: you(dan?) say you're not rcc but you
definitely believe in the god. since that is a pagan concept not found in Scripture but adopted by the rcc from the start(apostate) to incorporate other pagans in with themselves - google for more about pagan start of t.
---j on 2/11/06

Your response to Debbie (?I don't see a Debbie in this blog.) raises this question. What is the connection between Mary having only one child and remaining sinless?
---Bruce5656 on 2/11/06

I think Alan meant bible class...just a slip of the finger
---Ann5758 on 2/11/06

Emcee I also have access to Jesus. I have the right to approach His Throne with boldness (Heb 4:16 and others) to make my request known unto Him. Will you now place me in the same category that you place Mary.
Cond #2-->
---Elder on 2/11/06

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Cond #2-->
Do you realize, if Mary had refused to provide the body for Jesus there would have been another virgin chosen?
One reason she was chose is the fact that she was a virgin which caused the miracle birth and no sin nature in the body of Jesus. Another is the fact that she was in the linage of David which The Messiah had to come from.
Mary is/was nothing special. What God did with her was special. He could and does special things with each of His children but not of the same degree.
---Elder on 2/11/06

Moderator, I believe that our ol' friend, Alan, meant to say "bible." That "k" is next to the "l" and creates problems. My fingers work a lot faster than my brain most of the time even to the point I spell my name Eder sometimes and not Elder. Or maybe, just maybe, Alan is becoming Americanized. He would be a great asset to us.

Moderator - I couldn't pass up up joking with him :)
---Elder on 2/11/06

Moderator thank you for the joke "What is a "bikle class"? Is that a UK thing?" Sadly, although we have new life in Christ, and He guides our lives, He does not always guide the fingers to the right key, and the eyes get old and do not spot the wrong letter. And "k" is not even near "b" on the keyboard!

Moderator - :)
---alan8869_of_UK on 2/11/06

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